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Flying over 27MPH per hour at an altitude of below 10 feet
466 31 6-14 12:09
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DJIRjohn
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At what reason do DJI allow their Mavic Pro 2 flies over 27MPH at an altitude of below 10 feet? Is there a special reason why this was never put into consideration that it is as good as throwing a brick??

Do we need Elon Musk to figure out that such speed and altitude combination has absolute zero room in drone world in the name of public safety?? I don't believe every drone operators are as good as level 2 professionals and Mavic Pro 2 is barely a professional grade unit anyways.

Untill then shame on you DJI for not putting these security measures in place.


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6-14 12:09
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mavic2zoom-ch
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I don't really see your issue. It's only a problem if people are around ... which is true at 10 feet, 50 feet or 100 feet. I could cause any amount of damage at any height if I was irresponsible.

For example:



No people, no danger, filmed at full speed < 10 feet.
6-14 13:28
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AlphaFlightNW
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I dont see this as an issue though, considering that the pilot of the aircraft is responsible for the control of their aircraft. On the same point of mavic2zoom-ch, there are many good uses to fly that low and fast, so we shouldn't restrict a responsible pilots ability to create the shot they need just because there is the possibility that someone can be irresponsible.
6-14 13:46
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Flyingcougar
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mavic2zoom-ch Posted at 6-14 13:28
I don't really see your issue. It's only a problem if people are around ... which is true at 10 feet, 50 feet or 100 feet. I could cause any amount of damage at any height if I was irresponsible.

For example:

m2z-ch, good video!

I don't think that the M2 is really targeted to professionals, but it will work. One thing to remember is that professionals know how to fly, beginners have to take their time and get to know the equipment before attempting risky shots. PE
6-14 14:56
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DJIRjohn
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mavic2zoom-ch Posted at 6-14 13:28
I don't really see your issue. It's only a problem if people are around ... which is true at 10 feet, 50 feet or 100 feet. I could cause any amount of damage at any height if I was irresponsible.

For example:

Are you saying there's almost the same risk ripping someone's face at 100 feet and 10 feet? Don't you think the amount of risk of far greater at 10 feet and below?

Look at the log, it is force landing at 27MPH not just flying around....
6-14 15:57
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FatherXmas
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If DJI were to block this from happening, there'd be a huge outcry complaining about it.
6-14 15:58
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DJIRjohn
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FatherXmas Posted at 6-14 15:58
If DJI were to block this from happening, there'd be a huge outcry complaining about it.

So you made it clear that it's in the best interest of DJI to allow such risky feature no matter and however damage it may cause in the name of fun otherwise it could impact sales? Is this what's flying the drone is all about? Do you think DJI can already fully support their technology in such a robust way that public safety is no longer a concern? Do you think we can now say, hey not to worry, forget about the safety code measure just fly safe?
6-14 16:08
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mavic2zoom-ch
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Do the same risk assessment with a car, an aircraft, a helicopter, a gun, or a smashed bottle ... anything can be insanely dangerous when misused. It's down to the individual to exercise care.

There is no point in DJI saying that you can't fly fast at low altitudes because you can do just as much damage as slow speeds. There are situations, as shown, where it can be perfectly safe ... the responsibility is clearly on the pilot, just as it is on the car driver or gun owner.
6-14 23:50
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AJC-W
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mavic2zoom-ch Posted at 6-14 13:28
I don't really see your issue. It's only a problem if people are around ... which is true at 10 feet, 50 feet or 100 feet. I could cause any amount of damage at any height if I was irresponsible.

For example:

Brilliant example mate and a great video - good work!
6-15 00:21
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Aardvark
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DJIRjohn Posted at 6-14 16:08
So you made it clear that it's in the best interest of DJI to allow such risky feature no matter and however damage it may cause in the name of fun otherwise it could impact sales? Is this what's flying the drone is all about? Do you think DJI can already fully support their technology in such a robust way that public safety is no longer a concern? Do you think we can now say, hey not to worry, forget about the safety code measure just fly safe?

Using your guidelines, should bicycles also be limited in speed ?

After all it's up to the cyclist to decide how safely they ride where other people are present. And there are certainly examples of people being seriously injured and killed by dangerous cyclists.

In the U.K the pilot of the UAV is legally responsible for how they use their equipment, disregarding the laws has led to heavy fines for some (albeit not many), and potential for imprisonment.
6-15 01:50
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James 0522
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Don't fly 27 MPH at an altitude of 10 FT if you don't know what your doing.
There is an inherent responsibility on the operator to fly safe, especially around people.
If your flying hurts someone, YOU are the cause not the drone.
6-15 02:07
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JJB*
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DJIRjohn Posted at 6-14 15:57
Are you saying there's almost the same risk ripping someone's face at 100 feet and 10 feet? Don't you think the amount of risk of far greater at 10 feet and below?

Look at the log, it is force landing at 27MPH not just flying around....

Normally during a ForcedLanding **the craft descend vertically.....

** Initiate by user by pressing 100% for short period, when releasing 100% stick AC remains in Forcedlandig mode.

So why not in your example?  Did the OP pushed fully fwd and was not aware that the craft was in forcedlanding mode ?  So what is the whole story for this flight??

BTW nothing wrong with flying full speed forward in Sport mode at very low altitude, just be sure that no obstacles are present in the desired flight path!

cheers
JJB



6-15 02:08
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Schmooit
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From what I here this wont be an issue for many in Canada now unless you are licensed UAV operator and they should know better and excercise their own judgement relative to the surroundings! I agree with most of the  other comments I dont  think it should be limited and is up to the operator, however maybe  there could be a setting similar to beginner mode where one could set this type of thing to impose their own limits maybe?
6-15 04:07
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ScanDrone
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As always when flying, use good judgement and stay within current laws. No problem flying at high speed close to the ground as long as there is no risk to anything living or property and you are in controls and LOS.
6-15 04:19
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FatherXmas
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DJIRjohn Posted at 6-14 16:08
So you made it clear that it's in the best interest of DJI to allow such risky feature no matter and however damage it may cause in the name of fun otherwise it could impact sales? Is this what's flying the drone is all about? Do you think DJI can already fully support their technology in such a robust way that public safety is no longer a concern? Do you think we can now say, hey not to worry, forget about the safety code measure just fly safe?

It's not the manufacturer's responsibility to force anyone to fly safe. You can't fix stupid.
6-15 07:46
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FatherXmas
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DJIRjohn Posted at 6-14 16:08
So you made it clear that it's in the best interest of DJI to allow such risky feature no matter and however damage it may cause in the name of fun otherwise it could impact sales? Is this what's flying the drone is all about? Do you think DJI can already fully support their technology in such a robust way that public safety is no longer a concern? Do you think we can now say, hey not to worry, forget about the safety code measure just fly safe?

Also, it would be unsafe in some conditions not to allow that. I've stood at the top of a local waterfall numerous times and flown down the river. The altimeter reads less than 10 feet , sometimes even negative numbers, however the drone is actually more than 100 feet AGL.
6-15 07:53
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DennisMurry08
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I think I’m missing something...why would you fly at the speed and altitude when people are around? The person on the controls has that responsibility. I use low altitude speed for several shots but not with people in the way...and sensors should pick them up anyway....
6-16 09:47
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jwt-873
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There are places you can safely travel fast at low altitude.  I would be upset if DJI removed the ability..   Here's a very short vid I took a few years ago with my Phantom 4..   Lots of fun





  
6-17 05:03
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DJIRjohn
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DennisMurry08 Posted at 6-16 09:47
I think I’m missing something...why would you fly at the speed and altitude when people are around? The person on the controls has that responsibility. I use low altitude speed for several shots but not with people in the way...and sensors should pick them up anyway....

Yes you are missing something, it is force landing at 27MPH on a linear path with sensors disables. There's a difference between having fun and flying around yourself with sensors enable than a drone force landing at 27MPH with sensors disabled. It should be clear that drone can't force land on such speed, direction and altitude because that is not force landing but destruction landing.
6-17 09:15
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DJIRjohn
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jwt-873 Posted at 6-17 05:03
There are places you can safely travel fast at low altitude.  I would be upset if DJI removed the ability..   Here's a very short vid I took a few years ago with my Phantom 4..   Lots of fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mVHnherWl4

Not sure you read my statements, it is force landing at 27MPH on linear path aka crash landing in real world  with sensors disable not having fun like your drone.
6-17 09:16
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DJIRjohn
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FatherXmas Posted at 6-15 07:46
It's not the manufacturer's responsibility to force anyone to fly safe. You can't fix stupid.

And you call it smart to allow FORCE LANDING on a linear path at 27MPH at low altitude? Give me a reason on how a drone can force land with sensors disabled? I think that is not FORCE LANDING but destruction landing.
6-17 09:18
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Dakar Enduro
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There is more to this.  What level experience do you have with flying and drones specifically?  What caused your drone to get into a forced landing and what is the reason for the speed?  Were you already traveling at that speed or were you providing stick inputs while it was landing?

If there was a software glitch that caused a crash I am sure DJI will address it.  But if that's not the case then its up to the operator to be competent enough to fly it and correct it when needed.  These latest drones are fantastic at allowing minimally experienced pilots operate them proficiently.  But you still need to know how to fly without all the fancy assistants.  Nothing replaces skill and experience.  I wonder how many current pilots have actually flown a non-gps enabled drone for any length of time...

Anyway, back on topic.  There must be more to the story...  either way I am sorry that you had a crash.  I know they suck.
6-17 09:34
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DJIRjohn
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Schmooit Posted at 6-15 04:07
From what I here this wont be an issue for many in Canada now unless you are licensed UAV operator and they should know better and excercise their own judgement relative to the surroundings! I agree with most of the  other comments I dont  think it should be limited and is up to the operator, however maybe  there could be a setting similar to beginner mode where one could set this type of thing to impose their own limits maybe?

I don't think there's an issue with flying low if you know it's safe and MAVIC 2 zoom is equippred with 6 sensors which would help us human eye capable in the event that we missed an obstacle, after all we pay premium for that.

My point here is something else, the drone continued to FORCE LAND with sensors disable a speed of 27MPH at a descending linear path as it was FORCE LANDING. I think that for me is not a very safe and very well coded FORCE LANDING procedure. The drone has no wheels and 5 secs is not a lot to reach but with a proper coding, it would have detected that such landing is an absolute NO NO and therefore cancel force landing and right out enable obstacle sensor.
6-17 09:37
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DJIRjohn
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Dakar Enduro Posted at 6-17 09:34
There is more to this.  What level experience do you have with flying and drones specifically?  What caused your drone to get into a forced landing and what is the reason for the speed?  Were you already traveling at that speed or were you providing stick inputs while it was landing?

If there was a software glitch that caused a crash I am sure DJI will address it.  But if that's not the case then its up to the operator to be competent enough to fly it and correct it when needed.  These latest drones are fantastic at allowing minimally experienced pilots operate them proficiently.  But you still need to know how to fly without all the fancy assistants.  Nothing replaces skill and experience.  I wonder how many current pilots have actually flown a non-gps enabled drone for any length of time...

The helix mode shoved my drone into the dense forest far from the initiated spot at the middle of a lake, I was slowly maneuvering it out and the drone confused the cliff as a landing ground as I moved left, right down to avoid branches. As I saw a clearance, I push it forward and I took a look at the horizon to see where the drone is but unfortunately at which time the drone was already speeding down as it was doing a FORCE LANDING going over 27MPH.

It doesn't take a rocket science to prevent a drone from FORCE LANDING, sensors disabled at such speed and altitude with perfect battery level.
6-17 09:42
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Dakar Enduro
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But according to the log you were applying 100% down stick, which only increased your descent rate.  If you were visually aware that the drone was descending too fast then you should have been applying the opposite stick.

Sorry but not much else can be said.  I am off the stance that no further restrictions are needed.  It is an expensive hobby or business.  I always recommend to new pilots that they go out and buy a $50 'toy' drone to learn how to fly on first.  Then when a system (optical avoidance, GPS, compass, laser, etc) goes out of wack you can take over manual control and at least have a fighting chance of saving it.
6-17 09:47
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DJIRjohn
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Dakar Enduro Posted at 6-17 09:47
But according to the log you were applying 100% down stick, which only increased your descent rate.  If you were visually aware that the drone was descending too fast then you should have been applying the opposite stick.

Sorry but not much else can be said.  I am off the stance that no further restrictions are needed.  It is an expensive hobby or business.  I always recommend to new pilots that they go out and buy a $50 'toy' drone to learn how to fly on first.  Then when a system (optical avoidance, GPS, compass, laser, etc) goes out of wack you can take over manual control and at least have a fighting chance of saving it.

The log also said everything was perfect except it confuses the hill for a landing pad. I'm sorry but log and drone accuracy is like saying my knife was super sharp but I need some time to cut this meat. Do you even know how much I have seen drone complaining about signals, visuals and obstacle on such a perfect day and also working perfectly on a not so clear day?
DJI doesn't really have a near impressive record on stability and acceptable system performance, it's  beginning to become a hit and miss. It started very nice for me, then after some updates, I noticed some performance change and it was good at most but not as good as earlier.
Whatever it is, it does not change the fact the whether I pushed it forward, I still had an acceptable altitude before the crash but DJI FORCE LANDED my drone at an accelerating speed and if indeed it's accelerating then it should automatically cancel the FORCE LANDING and apply obstacle sensors. I bought a flag ship drone model with 6 sensors, It would have easily save my drone if DJI had only put into regard that such speed is no way to FORCE LAND a drone with zero wheels.



6-17 10:11
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DJIRjohn
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ScanDrone Posted at 6-15 04:19
As always when flying, use good judgement and stay within current laws. No problem flying at high speed close to the ground as long as there is no risk to anything living or property and you are in controls and LOS.

Speaking of LAWS, you see DJI included mine as a compliant drone which could be flown outside of basic license and unfortunately it could put them into a spotlight if this drags on.

Documentation
901.78 A manufacturer that has made a declaration to the Minister in respect of a model of remotely piloted aircraft system under section 901.76 shall make available to each owner of that model of system
(a) a maintenance program that includes
(i) instructions related to the servicing and maintenance of the system, and
(ii) an inspection program to maintain system readiness;
(b) any mandatory actions the manufacturer issues in respect of the system; and
(c) a remotely piloted aircraft system operating manual that includes
(i) a description of the system,
(ii) the ranges of weights and centres of gravity within which the system may be safely operated under normal and emergency conditions and, if a weight and centre of gravity combination is considered safe only within certain loading limits, those limits and the corresponding weight and centre of gravity combinations,
(iii) with respect to each flight phase and mode of operation, the minimum and maximum altitudes and velocities within which the aircraft can be operated safely under normal and emergency conditions,
(iv) a description of the effects of foreseeable weather conditions or other environmental conditions on the performance of both the system and the pilot,
(v) the characteristics of the system that could result in severe injury to crew members during normal operations,
(vi) the design features of the system, and their associated operations, that are intended to protect against injury to persons not involved in the operations,
(vii) the warning information provided to the pilot in the event of a degradation in system performance that results in an unsafe system operation condition,
(viii) procedures for operating the system in normal and emergency conditions, and
(ix) assembly and adjustment instructions for the system.
6-17 10:39
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ASTRO1
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DJIRjohn Posted at 6-14 15:57
Are you saying there's almost the same risk ripping someone's face at 100 feet and 10 feet? Don't you think the amount of risk of far greater at 10 feet and below?

Look at the log, it is force landing at 27MPH not just flying around....

You could argue that higher up is more dangerous because you don't have a chance to see it coming, when my drone is 6 feet off the ground and going 45 its super loud and obvious, you can even simpily step to the side. 45... ever crossed a street before? It's not hard to predict.
6-17 11:13
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playtime1
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DJIRjohn Posted at 6-14 16:08
So you made it clear that it's in the best interest of DJI to allow such risky feature no matter and however damage it may cause in the name of fun otherwise it could impact sales? Is this what's flying the drone is all about? Do you think DJI can already fully support their technology in such a robust way that public safety is no longer a concern? Do you think we can now say, hey not to worry, forget about the safety code measure just fly safe?

Your avatar says alot about safety ware a helmet stay safe
6-17 22:13
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AlphaFlightNW
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DJIRjohn Posted at 6-17 10:11
The log also said everything was perfect except it confuses the hill for a landing pad. I'm sorry but log and drone accuracy is like saying my knife was super sharp but I need some time to cut this meat. Do you even know how much I have seen drone complaining about signals, visuals and obstacle on such a perfect day and also working perfectly on a not so clear day?
DJI doesn't really have a near impressive record on stability and acceptable system performance, it's  beginning to become a hit and miss. It started very nice for me, then after some updates, I noticed some performance change and it was good at most but not as good as earlier.
Whatever it is, it does not change the fact the whether I pushed it forward, I still had an acceptable altitude before the crash but DJI FORCE LANDED my drone at an accelerating speed and if indeed it's accelerating then it should automatically cancel the FORCE LANDING and apply obstacle sensors. I bought a flag ship drone model with 6 sensors, It would have easily save my drone if DJI had only put into regard that such speed is no way to FORCE LAND a drone with zero wheels.

I still fail to see how this is DJI's fault. You mention laws, however I don't see that DJI should be held accountable for operator error, outside of agreements such as DJI care refresh. My only further suggestions based on what you have said here is this. You should not pilot a drone if you feel that you cannot accept a LOSS. I have had 2 different aircraft that have almost totaled, and they were because of an error in MY judgement. I accepted the risk, I continue to accept the risk, I even earned my Part 107 and I accept any and all consequences for my flights, good or bad. Whether it be loss of aircraft, damages or injury, I accept the terms that come with flying. It appears however, you are not able to handle such loss, but instead find reasons to blame anything else except for your failure to accept the result of actions you took. I'm sorry you lost your aircraft, but logs don't lie.
6-18 00:04
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AlphaFlightNW
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FatherXmas Posted at 6-15 07:46
It's not the manufacturer's responsibility to force anyone to fly safe. You can't fix stupid.

Exactly, theres a sign at a machine shop I went to that says something along the lines of "Caution! Machines are incapable of thinking, Apply your own!"
6-18 00:08
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AntDX316
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If they start adding more things the computer has to process, it will Bog the system down.  I'm scared to run D-log on the P4P V2.0 because when you record at 2.7k60 D-cinelike and have the feed on HD instead of regular, the video does not stop recording for a while.  You open it in the computer and it says corrupt.   I was using D-log on the P4P V2.0 and lost connection.  The demand on these units overload the computer.  The Mavic 2 is far snappier though but the camera isn't Mechanical.
6-20 11:33
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