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Polling: OSMO 4GB AUDIO ISSUE
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Simo83
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Hi friends!

How many people here has audio issues related to the 4GB limit imposed by DJI on Osmo Pocket and Action?!?

Maybe they'll listen to our complaints if they know how many people we are!!! We want a real fix!!!

A 5' limit in continuos recording...or demuxing files between importing them in editing software is not acceptable for a 400$ stuff!!!

So please...tell us your experience!

Simone
9-6 14:23
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Ray-CubeAce
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The Osmo Pocket is designed to be used with a phone. I think Android needs a FAT 32 system to operate.
Therefore Mimo use and any file transfers can't exceed 4gig.
The limit is a file size limit, not a time limit.
That would vary depending on resolution and frame rate used. More of a problem is the sound synchronisation and the probability of missing audio at the beginning of consecutively recorded clips.
That is what is not implemented correctly. File size limitations can be an annoyance but to say that it is broken is possibly an overstatement without knowing why FAT 32 was chosen whereas audio sync and dropout issues are a bad implementation that may or may not be able to be fixed.
I hope I'm wrong about this but I'm not holding my breath about a solution being considered.
9-6 15:16
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StardustGeass
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Ray-CubeAce Posted at 9-6 15:16
The Osmo Pocket is designed to be used with a phone. I think Android needs a FAT 32 system to operate.
Therefore Mimo use and any file transfers can't exceed 4gig.
The limit is a file size limit, not a time limit.

AFAIK, it is not the reason.
I don't remember how things went by on older phones, but even when I had a xiaomi redmi note 3 (that released around Samsung S7 IIRC), I can have files with more than 4GB file size on my phone. That is, because Android uses a ext4 file system.

Also, if their reason was about the 32GB SD card (that usually have FAT32 formatted), I think it just need a simple formatting.

That's why I found it puzzling to have such limitation in the Osmo Pocket.

On the fair note, I also had that kind of limitation on my Samsung Galaxy Note 9 (and S8 before).
When I record videos using Samsung's Camera app, it is splitted into 4GB files. I need to root it and have the app modded to allow it record without splitting the files.
9-6 18:13
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Curt1591
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I don't vlog; I mostly do time lapses. So, audio isn't something that concerns me.

But,  just out of curiosity, how much time 4GB allows at 4K ? 1080p ?
9-6 19:51
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djiuser_bS1QfIOPGreC
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I recorded a review recently with the OP in 4k and it split my videos exactly at 5:26 and yes I have the audio missing at the cut for a few frames. It is fine if you ate not talking at that point but if you are mid sentence it is really annoying. Additionally you can cut it probably somehow so nobody notices but it is an additional time investment in post. I don‘t care about the splitting actually it makes file handling easier on mobile devices but I do care about the audio.
9-6 22:42
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Curt1591
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So, let's say we're at 5 minutes.

With today's short attention spans, it would seem to me that 5 minutes would be an awfully long take without a break or scene / perspective change.

But, I repeat, I''m not a vlogger.
9-7 00:15
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Ray-CubeAce
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Curt1591 Posted at 9-6 19:51
I don't vlog; I mostly do time lapses. So, audio isn't something that concerns me.

But,  just out of curiosity, how much time 4GB allows at 4K ? 1080p ?

That again will vary slightly depending on the complexity of the scene recorded as each frame will contain varying amounts of data within depending how much compression is required to render individual frames but you should be able to roughly double the amount of time between 4K to 1080p, but again, the frame rate can play a part. There is a table on the Osmo Specification sheet I think.
9-7 00:23
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Ray-CubeAce
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StardustGeass Posted at 9-6 18:13
AFAIK, it is not the reason.
I don't remember how things went by on older phones, but even when I had a xiaomi redmi note 3 (that released around Samsung S7 IIRC), I can have files with more than 4GB file size on my phone. That is, because Android uses a ext4 file system.

Quite often a manufacturer will err on the side of caution and spec a machine for use by the masses and not what others would term power users. Even the majority of stills cameras that do video are still using FAT 32 at present. The operating system as far as I'm aware requires FAT 32 and Mimo resides on the main drive. If you can point me to any information to the contrary please post it here.
9-7 00:32
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fansfe82067d
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Count  me in as a person affected - particularly when recording long live music performances.  There should be no reason why the join between adjacent files can't be made seamless, if Ray's suggestion that the problem is with subsequently copying files to a phone  is correct (could well be).
9-7 02:50
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Ray-CubeAce
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fansfe82067d Posted at 9-7 02:50
Count  me in as a person affected - particularly when recording long live music performances.  There should be no reason why the join between adjacent files can't be made seamless, if Ray's suggestion that the problem is with subsequently copying files to a phone  is correct (could well be).

Hi.
I was referring to the Osmo Pocket's audio sync issues which has a five frame time difference, and the apparent dropout issues some people have had when files are split at the 4gig limit. I have yet to find out about the second point as I seldom film for that long in one go and have no idea if that happens using the audio adapter only or if it also happens with the inboard mics as well. Those that mentioned that problem didn't say.
There is a five frame audio to picture sync problem regardless that shouldn't be there.
9-7 06:55
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DJI Gamora
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HI Simo. Thank you for bringing this query for us and we're deeply sorry for the inconvenience caused by this. I will directly forward this concern to our designated department for attention. Once we already hear from them we will surely provide you the resolution. Thank you for your patience and understanding. Cheers!
9-7 09:42
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Simo83
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Hi everybody,

I'd like to clarify some points:

1. I am a pro-musician and a quite experienced film-making enthusiast. I own two DSLR and two other cameras including a GoPro Hero 7. Now. I know the topic quite well and I know what is the potential, the pros and the cons of an Osmo Pocket. I also know it quite well from the tech side.

2. Osmo pocket IS NOT intended to be used with a phone.
We could do it. We could use it stand alone.
What is sure is that it MUST act correctly: it is a camera, it has the record video clips with an audio track. That's what I think. That's all.

3. Osmo pocket has a inbuilt system to format microSD cards by itself: the filesystem will be exFAT: as all we know, exFAT has NO requirements about file size. No limit. So, no need to split files in 4gb subfiles related to filesystem. At all.

Other considerations in the next post.
9-7 11:48
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Simo83
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4 I know a bunch of other cameras which use to split the files for a couple of reasons. It could be a smart choice BUT only if this splitting system allows the user to remerge che clips SEAMLESSLY.

OSMO POCKET DOES NOT ALLOWS TO REJOIN THE CLIPS SEAMLESSLY...unless...

5. You use additional software to merge the clips in the right way: you MUST. If someone says he can merge them directly on Premiere, Lumafusion, FCP, Davinci resolve, without any sound gap does not know the topic deeply.

DJI said me the only way to merge the clips is to use FFMPEG or .MP4 JOINER in order to obtain a single clip and then importing the new clip on a video editor.

So...the story ends like this: you, customer, bought a 400$ stuff BUT you have a 4GB recording limit. If your clip is more than 4GB it will be splitted in two files and you will have to use a demuxer to merge them again before editing in an editing software. .

I want OP to do 2 simple things:
1. Record videos
2. Record audio

IT DOESN'T.
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9-7 12:00
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Simo83
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Last consideration: recording in 4k 60fps the limit is set at 5'26", then your file will be splitted and the first clip will miss some audio frames: they are at the beginning of the second clip. Ok.

I DO NOT REALLY CARE WHERE THESE FRAMES ARE.

The problem is that I CANNOT MERGE THESE CLIPS SEAMLESSLY without demuxing audio from video track: i MUST use a demuxer to separate audio from video. Process audio separately in a ad-hoc software and THEN start editing in a video editing software.

We don't want the 4gb split. Or alternatively we want a precise cut so that we can edit our clips on the go without demuxing.

I think you must specify in the manual that the user will have a cut in audio tracks which will lead in a loss of about 4/5 frames: the only solution is demuxing (with a loss of quality)

Thanks DJI.
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9-7 12:12
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Ray-CubeAce
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Simo83 Posted at 9-7 11:48
Hi everybody,

I'd like to clarify some points:

Hi Simo.

I'm sorry to do this sincerely but you are making some brash statements.

Hi everybody,

I'd like to clarify some points:

1. I am a pro-musician and a quite experienced film-making enthusiast. I own two DSLR and two other cameras including a GoPro Hero 7. Now. I know the topic quite well and I know what is the potential, the pros and the cons of an Osmo Pocket. I also know it quite well from the tech side.

Then you are quite familiar with the splitting up of video files.

2. Osmo pocket IS NOT intended to be used with a phone.

In what sense is that true? You can't even use one without first using the Mimo app on a phone to activate it. A lot of the most useful features are not available without the use of a phone for serious use, such as the histogram or zebra options, let alone select which file format you wish to use.

We could do it. We could use it stand alone.
What is sure is that it MUST act correctly: it is a camera, it has the record video clips with an audio track. That's what I think. That's all.

Fair enough. That's your opinion and as far as the sync issue is concerned I concur

3. Osmo pocket has a inbuilt system to format microSD cards by itself: the filesystem will be exFAT: as all we know, exFAT has NO requirements about file size. No limit. So, no need to split files in 4gb subfiles related to filesystem. At all.

That is speculation on your part. FAT 32 can be and is used on drives and cards larger than 32gig. Only DJI can really say why it chose it but so do many other manufacturers including the main camera manufacturers

Other considerations in the next post.
9-7 15:19
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Ray-CubeAce
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Simo83 Posted at 9-7 12:00
4 I know a bunch of other cameras which use to split the files for a couple of reasons. It could be a smart choice BUT only if this splitting system allows the user to remerge che clips SEAMLESSLY.

OSMO POCKET DOES NOT ALLOWS TO REJOIN THE CLIPS SEAMLESSLY...unless...

While I agree that the implementation of the audio to video sync is a real problem that should not exist it is a bit over the top to say it doesn't record video or audio. It may not do both together as well as we would like but it does do it.
It seems to me that for someone self-confessed to know what is possible you failed to look up the specs or understand them if you did or you would have known the files would be split before you bought your unit.

The audio-video sync problem is a genuine fault that should not be there but may not be rectifiable. I don't know but have strong suspicions due to the lack of firmware updates since this was first reported. I live in hope but am prepared for disappointment.
The 4gig file limit is more of a wish list request. Something that should be researched before a purchase is made if it is important to the way you wish to use it.



9-7 15:44
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Simo83
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I think you did not understand what I wrote.

I do not care if DJI wants the files >4 GB to be splitted or not. I do not really care. And I know as I said that other cameras split files. Ok. I do not care at all.

What I want as a customer is that my video could appear exactly as I recorded: I want ALL THE FRAMES I recorded. I want my full audio and video track.

I think it is what everybody wants and what everybody do not have: I don't give a heck about what DJI wanted to do splitting these files.

I want my Osmo to record EXACTLY what I have in my sight and exactly what I listen with my ears. Stop. Nothing more and nothing less.

This is what a camera is supposed to do.
GoPro does it.
Trawo does it.
Panasonic does it.
Sony does it.

And this is what DJI OSMO Pocket is supposed to be: RECORDING.
9-7 16:20
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Simo83
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I am studying what is happening on Osmo files more than DJI itself since the first post reporting this issue, some months ago.

The missing frames ARE at the beginning of the second file: they all are there. Below you find attached what I found comparing 2 RAW clips and a clip which is the result of a merge using".MP4 joiner". Just compare by yourself the frame increasing number with the meter above "video late" and you will find missing frames on RAW...which re-appear in the merged video!

Well,  take a look at the screenshot below and you'll understand: I do not want DJI to remove the 4gig splits.
I do want them to solve the missing frames issues: if they aren't able to, why do not simply remove this limit giving the users all the frames they recorded without having to use demuxing (which for sure degrades quality)?!?

It's a nonsense.

Just copy GoPro and give us our frames without hiding them without any reason at the beginning (or at the end in Osmo Action) of the splitted clip
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9-7 16:35
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fansfe82067d
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I think we are all on the same page - except perhaps for DJI! - there is an evident problem where one file ends and another begins, which does not occur on other devices, and should not occur on the Pocket.  It seems unlikely that it is a matter of the hardware, so it should be fixable in firmware.  Please, DJI, fix it!
9-7 16:47
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Simo83
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fansfe82067d Posted at 9-7 16:47
I think we are all on the same page - except perhaps for DJI! - there is an evident problem where one file ends and another begins, which does not occur on other devices, and should not occur on the Pocket.  It seems unlikely that it is a matter of the hardware, so it should be fixable in firmware.  Please, DJI, fix it!

Yes!!!

As I demonstrated above...all the missing and unusable frames are there stored on the clips!!! There is no sense in forcing use to use a third part software to view them!!!

Ffmpeg or MP4 joiner are not DJI products and MIMO DOESN'T allow to see the full clips!

Let us use the missing frames in this splitted files or remove the 4gb limit. Simple.

It's really easy.
Do it.
9-7 16:51
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Ray-CubeAce
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Simo83 Posted at 9-7 16:51
Yes!!!

As I demonstrated above...all the missing and unusable frames are there stored on the clips!!! There is no sense in forcing use to use a third part software to view them!!!

At last! Thank you.
I agree the sync issue should never have happened and should have been picked up before release. but now I'm confused about you saying that you shouldn't need a third-party app and that Mimo doesn't allow you to see the full clips.
Are you trying to edit or join Osmo Pocket files on a phone or are you asking DJI to supply a simple in house editor for a PC to join the clips and resync the audio?
If there is missing audio when files split then resyncing the files probably will not cure the problem.
I have my own suspicions of why this is happening but can't prove or find a test that can validate my thoughts on the subject. I suspect this won't be fixed as I think it may be a  problem related to the Osmo Pocket's unique security features that prevent the use of some third-party peripherals which is causing the delay. As I said, I have no way of proving this and there may be a fix in the future but it's evidently not an easy fix or DJI would have done it by now.
9-7 17:51
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fansfe82067d
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I have to wonder whether they are really clued up with audio related matters - the audio adapter seems to have problems which should have been fixed before marketing - while the problem we are discussing is audio and video, if they are not clued up on the need to avoid it because they see audio as not that important, then they may not have fixed it by now because they don't really see the importance of it.  Guesswork of course.  But hopefully the more we go on about it, the more likely it is that it will be addressed.  Yup, I'm an optimist.
9-7 23:25
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Simo83
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Ray, if you read my post paying the right attention, I already said the clip are there somewhere stored in the clips.

I do not want to record clips which are unusable without TWO third party applications: one for demuxing and the join the clips, another one to edit the movie.

It is a complete nonsense.

They have two choices:

1. Remove the 4gb limit or, assuming it is really useful, let the user decide whether use it OR NOT: in this way there would not be any split and so, any sync or frame missing issue.

2. Let the second clip show the user ALL THE FRAMES it contains: it's a nonsense hiding them.
GoPro and other camera split the file (asking you whether you want or not them to) BUT the clip are SEAMLESSLY MERGEABLE in the poorest and most simple editor on Heart. And this is true whether you use a phone, a PC, a mainframe, a NASA control PC or Mr. Spielberg's one.

It is really simple: they MUST remove the 4gb limit or unhide the missing frames.

Easy.
9-8 00:30
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Simo83
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fansfe82067d Posted at 9-7 23:25
I have to wonder whether they are really clued up with audio related matters - the audio adapter seems to have problems which should have been fixed before marketing - while the problem we are discussing is audio and video, if they are not clued up on the need to avoid it because they see audio as not that important, then they may not have fixed it by now because they don't really see the importance of it.  Guesswork of course.  But hopefully the more we go on about it, the more likely it is that it will be addressed.  Yup, I'm an optimist.
Hi!

The problem is the same for VIDEO frames: check the images I posted above.

No demuxing and remerge -> missing audio and video frame -> merging not seamless (missing frames are a few, so you can't spot the issue when filming <4gb or not filming something in which audio and video are strictly tied...concerts...interview or people speaking...some races with motor noise and car movement...)

If you:

1. Download the clips to your PC
2. Put them into .MP4 joiner and let it work And export a new file (if you have input a .mov, you will obtain an .MP4!)
3. Import the new video on the editor
4. Export the final cut from it

The framese do reappear magically!!!
What the...!!!

And be careful! I repeat!
If you set Osmo to record using .MOV, using this method you lose .Mov and will have an .MP4 file.
Nonsense. I want a fully functional .mov because I decided so!!!

My God...let the user decide if or not cut this clips!!!
9-8 00:35
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Ray-CubeAce
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fansfe82067d Posted at 9-7 23:25
I have to wonder whether they are really clued up with audio related matters - the audio adapter seems to have problems which should have been fixed before marketing - while the problem we are discussing is audio and video, if they are not clued up on the need to avoid it because they see audio as not that important, then they may not have fixed it by now because they don't really see the importance of it.  Guesswork of course.  But hopefully the more we go on about it, the more likely it is that it will be addressed.  Yup, I'm an optimist.

I don't think it's that they don't care about audio, I think it came down to the design brief and implementation. If all they wanted at the time was something to beat the leaders of action cams but with a unique twist building on their own expertise, then they fulfilled their own design brief. It's all they needed to ensure sales. I think as a manufacturer you don't want to get so far ahead of the competition that you can't then bring out another later planned product that is better than your last effort and possibly better than the product your competitor made to beat yours.
You can call me cynical but it's what you see time and again across the board with most electronic devices with cameras, in general, being a good example and a tricky one in which they have not just other camera manufacturers to contend with, but phone makers who can call upon better processing power and an amount of AI that gives an all in one package with the additional bonus of instant uploading to share on the internet. This is the YouTwitFace age where instant communication is king. DSLR manufacturers were slow to get that and lost out on compact and bridge camera sales big time and are only now trying to integrate cameras to phones to compete.
DJI at least have realised this and tried to get that part right from the off.
There are other considerations as well with the cost being a major one. You can have a product that is much better than your competitors but if it costs much more than theirs you will lose sales. Not possibly from the enthusiasts that are more clued up about performance differences but from the general public that realise they need something a bit more capable but not too expensive. But how do you make up for the loss of revenue due to competitive pricing? Yup. additional bolt-on products that only they can supply because nothing else will work as well. Or at all in some instances.
So yes, I'm very cynical but I also understand that what I'm buying into isn't just a product but a part of a commercial process that has to be viable and looked at from a commercial viewpoint.
9-8 01:04
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Ray-CubeAce
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Simo83 Posted at 9-8 00:35
Hi!

The problem is the same for VIDEO frames: check the images I posted above.

OK.
If there are video frames missing as well as audio, then you are the first person I've seen to report this and show the problem. The images on their own didn't explain why you were ringing certain portions of them. This to my mind, and is just a guess at this point, but it may also be a part of the way the Osmo Pocket wakes up when switched on. I'm convinced the pocket goes through a brief check for connected peripherals before recording begins. I don't know if it's the cause of the breaks in video/audio after it's awake as it really shouldn't but can't think of another reason it would do this.
It's a serious design flaw either way that should not have got past the development stage but as you probably know these types of things do slip past such controls for whatever reason and the end-user is the one who has to either put up with it or hope for a solution.
I was wary before purchase as to why DJI would put clauses into buying its product and why the only way to get one at the time of launch was through DJI. Retailers since then have stocked them but then if bought that way you can take the product back under the 'not fit for purpose' clause that most countries have in their consumer laws.
There were other 'flags' to be wary of in the information given out about the products released.
The specific compatibility specifications of which phones would work with the Osmo Pocket.
The insistence that the audio was described as two-channel and never stereo.
The audio bit rate which is commonly believed to be only really fit for a mono output.
Despite all that, there are still complaints about things already published as working limitations and that people should be wary of.
On the other hand, other things such as the audio sync problems and now I'll add your missing frames dilemma is of genuine concern and to my mind valid problems that should be known and cared about.

I don't know if there can be a fix but at least now DJI can't say it isn't known and this should definitely not arise again in a future similar product.
Not ideal I know but it happens across all industries from time to time, from tumble dryers to cars.   


[EDIT]

Can I suggest you alter your posts title to 'Missing audio and Frames Problem' as I think you have found something not previously picked up on and others may want to verify this which would help validate your, in my view, legitimate complaint.  

9-8 02:03
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Knobbynomates
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Simo83 Posted at 9-7 16:35
I am studying what is happening on Osmo files more than DJI itself since the first post reporting this issue, some months ago.

The missing frames ARE at the beginning of the second file: they all are there. Below you find attached what I found comparing 2 RAW clips and a clip which is the result of a merge using".MP4 joiner". Just compare by yourself the frame increasing number with the meter above "video late" and you will find missing frames on RAW...which re-appear in the merged video!

Using LumaFusion what happens if you use the 'consolidate media' option on the clips?

Does that work? (I've not tried it)
9-8 04:11
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Simo83
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Knobbynomates Posted at 9-8 04:11
Using LumaFusion what happens if you use the 'consolidate media' option on the clips?

Does that work? (I've not tried it)
Hi, nothing change in Lumafusion after optimizing and consolidating tracks. Have a look if you are a user. Every file over 4gb have a missing audio issue. These frames are in the second clip but you cannot see them and they're unusable till you process both the clips demuxing and remerging them. Obviously you'll lose your .mov format.
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9-8 09:22
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griffdude13
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I use a grade 3 card, which is what DJI recommends, and haven't had this issue. Make sure your SD cards are grade 3, speed class 1, minimum.
9-13 13:33
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Ray-CubeAce
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griffdude13 Posted at 9-13 13:33
I use a grade 3 card, which is what DJI recommends, and haven't had this issue. Make sure your SD cards are grade 3, speed class 1, minimum.

I haven't had the chance to test the missing video frames but the audio sync problem is there regardless. Try a clapperboard test. Those of us seeing the audio problem were using Sandisk U3 A2 specced cards. There is no drift of frame dropping just a four or five frame delay depending on the frame rate. Do you have an early Osmo Pocket or a newer one? There appears to have been one change to later releases to the lens coating colouring observed by one user. Maybe there has been more alterations quietly introduced without fanfare.
9-13 15:07
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DJI Gamora
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Hi, thank you for patiently waiting and we do apologize for the inconvenience. Can you please try to merge videos by FFmepg or MP4Tools first then you can edit it in editing software like Adobe Premiere to avoid any audio loss problem. Please keep us posted. Thank you!
9-20 14:45
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Frango Jones
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Good morning people ..
I'm new here in the forum and found this post researching a problem I had while recording with my Osmo Pocket and I will take this opportunity to report here as I realized that there are people with a very advanced technical knowledge.
I was recording a music band clip and at some point the audio started to fail. I do not know what happened ..
I'll leave a link with part of the audio file for those who want to download and listen ... I was very upset because I realized that is not something that can be trusted. If I was doing a job, I couldn't rely on Osmo alone (I know I can use other audio capture methods, but I wish I could rely on Osmo).

The audio follows below for download.
>> <<
9-23 19:44
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wingnam
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Simo83 Posted at 9-8 09:22
Hi, nothing change in Lumafusion after optimizing and consolidating tracks. Have a look if you are a user. Every file over 4gb have a missing audio issue. These frames are in the second clip but you cannot see them and they're unusable till you process both the clips demuxing and remerging them. Obviously you'll lose your .mov format.

HI Simo83, I am also a music pro and I use multiple cams (including pockets) to record music performance on stage. Then I use Final Cut Pro to edit and output the multicam video. Thus, the audio gap becomes a BIGGGGGGGGGG issue. It has dropped not only the small gap of audio track but caused the multiple audio tracks (from different cams) out of syn!!!!

It seems you have quite an experience and have done quite a lot of researches on this problem. What is your final work-around?  It is quite sure that it is not related to the Card/framerate and the problem persists even with the latest firmware as of today.
10-11 02:16
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