Will the Osmo Pocket ever get HEVC recording?

I've done alot of recording via 4k60fps and the file sizes are way too large.  I've recently used the GP7 with HEVC as well as my s9+, and the equivalent file sizes are about a third of the H.264 video that the OP does.  

It seems the hardware in the OP is at least capable of utilizing HEVC.  Would it be possible to include it in the next firmware update?

Before everyone comments about how H.265 doesn't make the image quality better... YES it does.  Besides just the advantage of lower harddrive space, at lower bitrate , h.265 looks identical to much much higher bitrate of H.264.

Hi, thanks for sharing your suggestion with us. No worries, we will forward this idea to our designated department for attention. Thank you for your support.

Does Osmo Pocket have all hardware to enable HEVC through firmware?

Hi.

There is absolutely no need for the Pocket to use H.265.

The Pocket's H.264 encoder is awesome and encodes a picture that isn't lacking in anyway for an 8 bit, 4:2:0 interframe encode/output.

The only difference that you'd have using H.265 to achieve the same output/encode characteristics is a lower bit rate and therefore lower file sizes.

While a smaller file may seem better for storage etc. there's the huge problem of H.265 being a much harder codec to decode and to manipulate in post.

Even in situations where 10 Bit +, higher resolutions, wider colour gamuts, higher chroma subsampling, HDR etc. are concerned and given a high quality H.264 encoder. There is no technical advantage to using H.265 over H.264 other than file size.

There's a possible argument that certain global/industry standards for things such as certain types of HDR use H.265 but that's simply the difference in standardised meta data for MP4/H.265 that MP4/H.264 doesn't have. Although H.264 could also technically be used. But none of that has any bearing with regard the Pocket, as it is not designed or capable of such standards anyway.

Bottom line. H.265 would not increase picture quality but would make the video files harder to process and is completely unnecessary for the video output format that the Pocket produces.

Cheers,
Dave.

David_Harry Posted at 12-8 05:49
Hi.

There is absolutely no need for the Pocket to use H.265.

I wanted to sell UHD version of Blu-ray to customers! But from your talk, now I don't think Osmo Pocket has necessary hardware to record HEVC video. So, now I will sell only Full HD 24fps version of Blu-ray to customers!!

diraMusic Posted at 12-8 10:25
I wanted to sell UHD version of Blu-ray to customers! But from your talk, now I don't think Osmo Pocket has necessary hardware to record HEVC video. So, now I will sell only Full HD 24fps version of Blu-ray to customers!!

Oh no, what a disaster ..........

David_Harry Posted at 12-8 05:49
Hi.

There is absolutely no need for the Pocket to use H.265.

I know there is a misconception about x265 producing better quality image, but the smaller file size alone is exactly why I would like OP to support that format. Not only takes less space, but is easier to stream on slower networks. My previous two favourite recorders supported x265, so in this respect OP was a downgrade.

I dont know the answer , but  H264 may be fixed by a hardware codec in the pocket anyway ?  

Mr Monio Posted at 12-8 12:28
I know there is a misconception about x265 producing better quality image, but the smaller file size alone is exactly why I would like OP to support that format. Not only takes less space, but is easier to stream on slower networks. My previous two favourite recorders supported x265, so in this respect OP was a downgrade.

Hi.

While a lower bit rate maybe easier to stream on slower networks, H.265 is way harder to decode and wont work for most people.

Also, there is no standard for H.265 within HTML5, as there is with H.264, so you can't use H.265 as a progressively streamed video standard within a web browser as you can with H.264, also making H.265 a bad choice.

DJI's choice of H.264 for the video output type that the Pocket produces is not only a perfect choice technically but also means that the files are easier to play and edit for most people.

H.265 is a very bad choice of codec for consumer video cameras as most consumers don't have the necessary processing power to manipulate the files.

Many users have issues with H.264 at 4K/UHD, imagine how harder that would get with H.265.

Cheers,
Dave.

David_Harry Posted at 12-9 00:38
Hi.

While a lower bit rate maybe easier to stream on slower networks, H.265 is way harder to decode and wont work for most people.

It has not been a niche format anymore at least since Apple adopted it and it plays just fine on my Samsung Tab 2 tablet, which has like a 3 or 4 year old CPU in it, not to mention it has been supported by all recent GPUs, CPUs, at least those with integrated GFX, most TV sets manufactured for the last couple of years, media players etc. If backward compatibility is of a concern, DJI can make x265 optional, there is no reason anymore to waste disk space with h264. Anyway, I suspect x265 is not coming anymore to this iteration of OP, regardless if the current hw supports it or not, but it should be the default format in the next version.

Mr Monio Posted at 12-9 02:37
It has not been a niche format anymore at least since Apple adopted it and it plays just fine on my Samsung Tab 2 tablet, which has like a 3 or 4 year old CPU in it, not to mention it has been supported by all recent GPUs, CPUs, at least those with integrated GFX, most TV sets manufactured for the last couple of years, media players etc. If backward compatibility is of a concern, DJI can make x265 optional, there is no reason anymore to waste disk space with h264. Anyway, I suspect x265 is not coming anymore to this iteration of OP, regardless if the current hw supports it or not, but it should be the default format in the next version.

No one has said it's a niche format.

You are now talking about playback devices that have hardware decoding for H.265, that's a far cry from streaming it.

None of these compatible playback devices make any difference to the fact that H.265 is way harder to edit. I'd imagine that most people with a Pocket are simply not just shooting clips for individual playback on their own on a TV. Most people will be editing the footage and it's these people that would be severely limited by the Pocket using H.265

Plus, once edited, you have a choice of codecs to export to anyway. At that point you could just encode a production to H.265, although it's a bad choice as far as compatibility is concerned if the idea is to share the video files.

David_Harry Posted at 12-9 02:48
No one has said it's a niche format.

You are now talking about playback devices that have hardware decoding for H.265, that's a far cry from streaming it.

I find it odd that someone that wants the latest codecs just because of disk space, as buying the latest gear is not the cheapest alternative as opposed to the cost of extra disk space, and while Apple may be using a variant of H.265, on it's phones at least they are producing variable frame rate videos to cope with the processing needs of producing and playing back the video files. That has lead to some frantic posts on some video editing forums where some video editing programs are not being able to use the files. The only solution there was to re-encode the files in handbrake for the editing packages to handle them. How that becomes economical with disk space I've no idea.

Ray-CubeAce Posted at 12-9 03:13
I find it odd that someone that wants the latest codecs just because of disk space, as buying the latest gear is not the cheapest alternative as opposed to the cost of extra disk space, and while Apple may be using a variant of H.265, on it's phones at least they are producing variable frame rate videos to cope with the processing needs of producing and playing back the video files. That has lead to some frantic posts on some video editing forums where some video editing programs are not being able to use the files. The only solution there was to re-encode the files in handbrake for the editing packages to handle them. How that becomes economical with disk space I've no idea.

Hi Ray.

Yes, H.265 causes a lot of problems especially when someone (Apple) decides to screw about with the parameters.

After using your new i9 computer for a while now have you noticed a big improvement with editing your Osmo UHD footage? Have you tried any H.265 footage and seen what that's like to edit?

For anyone still not understanding the problem with H.265 as a codec for the Pocket or even the Action, try this suggestion and you'll soon realise that H.265 is a very bad idea.

1. Take a H.264 clip from your Pocket or Action.

2. Encode it to H.265, use HandBrake it's free (BTW get ready to watch paint dry unless you've got hardware assisted rendering/encoding)

3. Take your original Pocket/Action H.264 clip along with your H.265 copy that you made with HandBrake and now see what the difference is like playing both in your NLE.

4. Now try adding simple dissolves to both files and then try some geometry changes or colour alterations and see how you get on.

5. Then stop bitching about H.265 after you realise it's a total waste of time with the Pocket.

Cheers,
Dave.

Folks, this reminds me of the "who the hell needs 4K?" bemoaning. You may not need it, but I do, even if it's not something I can't live without. x265 is taking over, whether we like it or not.

Mr Monio Posted at 12-9 03:29
Folks, this reminds me of the "who the hell needs 4K?" bemoaning. You may not need it, but I do, even if it's not something I can't live without. x265 is taking over, whether we like it or not.

What a bad analogy.

The use, or not, of H.265 is in no way the same as those who resisted the change to UHD.

Here's why.

If I played you a H.265 file and then a H.264 one, you would never know the difference. If I played you a HD file and then a UHD one, even on a HD screen, you'd see the difference.

You've been presented with unarguable technical fact as to why H.265 is not only a bad idea for the Pocket but is also something that will hinder all Pocket users who edit their footage. Yet you have made no good technical argument for its use, except for some unquantified guess about file size.

BTW. How much smaller do you think the files would be? Take a look at the Hero 8, a similar type of camera to the Pocket. It can use H.265, are you aware of its H.265 bit rate when shooting UHD 59.94FPS ????

"except for some unquantified guess about file size." now you are just trolling. EOD.

Mr Monio Posted at 12-9 04:11
"except for some unquantified guess about file size." now you are just trolling. EOD.

Trolling, I nearly laughed my arse off, you stupid prick.

You're now just scraping the bottom of the barrel and making baseless accusations because you've been proven completely wrong and been called out for chatting absolute sh1t.

I love it when stupid people get called out and can't retort with anything sensible because, well, they're just stupid.

Anyway. You've been called out now and during this thread you've proven to everyone your absolute ignorance and stupidity.

My job on this thread is done.

Well, no you did not laugh at all and it's obvious to anyone reading your primitive attempt at insulting me. You got furiously mad for being called what you are - an argumentative troll. You do have some knowledge and experience, but obviously not enough patience to read into other people's arguments, not to mention accept their points of view. I only made a point I wanted the benefit of the reduced file size, be it as an option, but it was enough to trigger your fuming tirade challenging alll points ... none of which I made. I have seen you do that in other threads on this forum. You are mentally unstable, David Harry and you better realise that, because you are harming yourself.                        
       
                                                         

David_Harry Posted at 12-9 03:25
Hi Ray.

Yes, H.265 causes a lot of problems especially when someone (Apple) decides to screw about with the parameters.

Hi David.
No I don't record any H265 footage but do export in that format for YouTube as it seems YouTube doesn't then re-compress the upload that much compared to uploading H264. My NLE slows down too much when using multiple tracks and have to revert to using proxy files (more hard drive space) to get smooth playback.
I'm not sure what type of system power I'd need to handle up to 4 multiple tracks of H265 for editing or if the Osmo Pocket could handle the processing power to record it at the bit rates it uses. It gets hot enough as it is and wouldn't want to cause an emergency thermal shutdown and have the prospect of losing footage. I'm sure there are reasons DJI did not include or use H265 but they are not about to tell us. and have no obligation to.
I read the specs before I bought it.  

Mr Monio Posted at 2019-12-9 04:54
Well, no you did not laugh at all and it's obvious to anyone reading your primitive attempt at insulting me.  You got furiously mad for being called what you are - an argumentative troll. You do have some knowledge and experience, but obviously not enough patience to read into other people's arguments, not to mention accept their points of view. I only made a point I wanted the benefit of the reduced file size, be it as an option, but it was enough to trigger your fuming tirade challenging alll points ... none of which I made.  I have seen you do that in other threads on this forum. You are mentally unstable, David Harry and you better realise that, because you are harming yourself.

Wow people who are mods on here.. have you every actually done any video editing. H265 not only looks better, can handle 10 bit colour and just like when I want to edit h265 or 8k we pros who actually know a lot about editing use PROXIES which mean zero lag in your edit workflow. And for your information h265 takes ZERO time to process on youtube uploads where h264 can take hours for an hour video... which means YOUTUBE is working on h265. Its the future... stop "BItching" as you put it and get with the future and stop being stick in the muds. Phones also record in h265 now... no duh.

DJI Tony Posted at 2019-10-12 14:29
Hi, thanks for sharing your suggestion with us. No worries, we will forward this idea to our designated department for attention. Thank you for your support.

Yes sure, you will LOL. Even the Pocket 2 and the Mini 2 don't have it

David_Harry Posted at 2019-12-8 05:49
Hi.

There is absolutely no need for the Pocket to use H.265.

That's definitely wrong, Apple is using it all the time HEVC, and it is not harder to use it in post that H.264