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New drone-to-phone Remote ID
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DAFlys
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DJI announced today that the Chinese drone maker has been working on a new drone-to-phone Remote ID solution that uses WiFi. The new app was demonstrated with a DJI Mavic Air (DJI, Amazon) and a DJI Mavic 2 Enterprise drone at the International Civil Aviation Organization’s third annual Drone Enable conference in Montreal. In their statement, DJI says that with this simple app “anyone within radio range of the drone can receive that signal and learn the location, altitude, speed and direction of the drone, as well as an identification number for the drone and the location of the pilot.” the new drone-to-phone Remote ID app and firmware updates from DJI are not yet available for public use as this was merely a demonstration. The company is waiting for further direction from aviation regulators and final publication of the ASTM International standard.


https://ww.dronedj.com/2019/11/13/dji-demonstrates-direct-drone-to-phone-remote-id/
2019-11-14
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fans48f0c1a5
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Yes i saw that which presumably means that all mavics are broadcasting or capable of after an enforced update to all with the app on their phones. But as usual anybody with intent aint going broadcast nothing so its just us suckers that will have to suck it up or go illegal.
2019-11-14
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Flycaster
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Just don't install it, and don't do any updates if your setup is stable, and don't let it "phone home"...ever...
2019-11-14
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MagicRide
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I will never install this, all it will do is create conflict which is what we don't need now.
2019-11-14
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BobB
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I guarantee this is not for our benefit....the FAA wants this so DJI is making us think it is.
2019-11-14
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AlphaFlightNW
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So what, it’s going to force my phone to be in gps mode? What if I use a spoofer? What if I don’t want to be mugged or attacked? @dji admins, care to explain?
2019-11-15
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Hello and good day DAFlys. Thank you for sharing this information and this link with us. Nice find and thank you for your support.
2019-11-15
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Mell
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2-18 00:40
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DAFlys
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Mell Posted at 2-18 00:40
Solutions For The Drone Age: DJI Drone-To-Phone Broadcast Remote ID

Its not clear how it will know where the pilot is located.  I could use take off point, RTH point or the phone could regular send its GPS position to the drone to broadcast. Also will this be made available as a firmware upgrade to older drones especially now we here the rumour that Mavic 3 will launch next year.
2-18 01:38
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No, just no!!  The problem is that criminals/thieves will abuse this system to spy on unaware drone users, as these drone pilots will get robbed easily, as they are visible to the public... Say goodbye to your $1500-2000 drone. I spotted this on YouTube. I would have no problem with law enforcement having access to this. The BIG issue would be members of the public, and their ability to get key details about what I'm doing without my knowledge or permission. That is a (massive) step too far. Would put me off the hobby entirely. A comparison: I'm not a dog person. Other people's dogs often bark constantly when I go to the beach. Sometimes they jump up on me, and I find them far more intrusive than drones. However, should I have the automatic right to get the dog owner's details and intentions without asking them, so that I can report them to the authorities for being a nuisance? Most people would say no. And don't even get me started about how mobile phone cameras have the potential to invade privacy far more than drones. Perhaps when anyone turns their camera on, everybody nearby should get a notification telling them who it is, and where they are! The drone witch hunt continues.
2-18 04:03
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I would suspect that the broadcast to "any phone" nearby could be and hopefully will be encrypted and can only be decrypted by those who need to know, not the general public. I know, dream on but encryption can be easily done. The other thing that DJI has announced is that all new drones above 250kg will have ADS-B receivers which are used to detect planes and helicopters and warn DJI pilots if they are on a collision course. Fortunately, as of now ADS-B reception is not required by the FAA. I can see it being required for BVLOS and/or night flying. Anyway, just some thoughts.
2-18 10:36
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NightThunder Posted at 2-18 10:36
I would suspect that the broadcast to "any phone" nearby could be and hopefully will be encrypted and can only be decrypted by those who need to know, not the general public. I know, dream on but encryption can be easily done. The other thing that DJI has announced is that all new drones above 250kg will have ADS-B receivers which are used to detect planes and helicopters and warn DJI pilots if they are on a collision course. Fortunately, as of now ADS-B reception is not required by the FAA. I can see it being required for BVLOS and/or night flying. Anyway, just some thoughts.

"... and hopefully will be encrypted..."

I am with you.
There is no legitimate reason for drones (UAVs) to broadcast their assigned Remote ID in the clear.  The encryption process should be dynamic in nature.  Making it nearly impossible to reverse engineer encryption of broadcast Remote IDs in our lifetime.

It would be easy enough for FAA to create an App which let anyone with SmartDevice capture encrypted Remote ID, type in a justification for capturing and reporting drone's Remote ID, finally sending information on to FAA for investigation.   

Using such an APP, which would be traceable back to SmartDevice which sent information, would deter most false reporting.  Like a smartalec kid, whiny neighbor, overly zealous park ranger.   Being Remote ID was dynamically encrypted, it would also keep a nutcase vigilante from using actual Remote ID to target a particular pilot.
2-18 10:56
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BobB Posted at 2019-11-14 09:03
I guarantee this is not for our benefit....the FAA wants this so DJI is making us think it is.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/brcukg8t4j0agic/DJI%20Remote%20ID%20Discussion%20Paper.pdf?dl=0
This was recommended by dji and ARC, and it’s pretty clear from white paper document what both organizations had intended by this.


Excerpts from dji proposal, link to full document above,  on Remote ID and the fact that this was written and presented to the FAA over 2 years shows both dji and ARC's intentions .
Dji have also backed up this proposal and all that's in it publicly in December 2019

DJI Proposes Electronic Identification Framework For Small Drones

Remote Identifier Would Provide Accountability While Protecting Drone Operator Privacy

March 27, 2017 – DJI, the world’s leading maker of unmanned aircraft systems (UAS), Monday proposed an electronic identification framework for UAS that would allow authorities in the United States to identify drone owners when necessary while also respecting their privacy.

“DJI understands that accountability is a key part of responsible drone use, and we have outlined a proposal that balances the privacy of drone operators with the legitimate concerns authorities have about some drone operations,” said Brendan Schulman, DJI Vice President of Policy and Legal Affairs. “This is another example of how the UAS industry is innovating solutions to emerging concerns, and we look forward to working with other stakeholders on how to implement the best possible system.”

Last year, the United States Congress directed the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to develop approaches to remotely identifying the operators and owners of unmanned aircraft, and set deadlines for doing so over the next two years. DJI has outlined a concept in which each drone would transmit its location as well as a registration number or similar identification code, using inexpensive radio equipment that is already on board many drones today and that could be adopted by all manufacturers.

Anyone with the proper receiver could obtain those transmissions from the drone, but only law enforcement officials or aviation regulators would be able to use that registration number to identify the registered owner. This system would be similar to automotive license plates, which allow anyone to identify a nearby vehicle they believe is operating improperly, but which can only be traced to their owner and operator by authorities.

“The best solution is usually the simplest,” DJI wrote in a white paper on the topic, which can be downloaded at this link. “The focus of the primary method for remote identification should be on a way for anyone concerned about a drone flight in close proximity to report an identifier number to the authorities, who would then have the tools to investigate the complaint without infringing on operator privacy.”

Last week DJI submitted the white paper to the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI), which is collecting perspectives on how to remotely identify small drones in the United States in advance of an FAA effort to develop a consensus approach. DJI believes a remote transmission system is preferable to a network that attempts to track or record the location of all drones in real time, which would be far more complex to develop and would expose the confidential information of drone users.

The DJI white paper notes several examples of professional and personal operation of drones in which the operator has a legitimate need to keep their identity and the nature of the operation confidential, such as an energy company using drones to survey the location of a prospective new wind farm.                                                                     

DJI’s proposed system for the United States would also protect the privacy of safe and responsible drone pilots, and would prevent professional drone operators from having to share proprietary information about the location and nature of their flights. Given that some drones have been targeted by gunfire and some drone pilots have been threatened with assault despite flying legally, DJI believes it is prudent to allow individual drone owners to avoid disclosing their identities to the general public.

“No other technology is subject to mandatory industry-wide tracking and recording of its use, and we strongly urge against making UAS the first such technology. The case for such an Orwellian model has not been made,” the white paper says. “A networked system provides more information than needed, to people who don’t require it, and exposes confidential business information in the process.”

The overwhelming majority of personal and professional drone pilots operate safely and responsibly. However, DJI recognizes that law enforcement and aviation regulators need to be able to identify the owners of drones that may be operating unlawfully or in highly sensitive areas. Many people who are unfamiliar with the benefits of drones will also appreciate knowing that authorities can identify their operators when necessary.

2-18 12:08
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HedgeTrimmer
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BobB Posted at 2019-11-14 09:03
I guarantee this is not for our benefit....the FAA wants this so DJI is making us think it is.

"I guarantee this is not for our benefit....the FAA wants this so DJI is making us think it is. "

Agreed it is not for our benefit.  Its for others benefits.

Special interests, commercial drone deliver services, manufactures of delivery drones, overzealous Federal  LEOs / Security agencies, politician fodder for votes, and paranoid airplane pilots; are pushing FAA to implement far more than FAA's original Remote ID called for.
2-18 13:04
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BobB
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You guys run out of ... to talk about with this old(er) thread?
2-18 13:22
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1Eagle
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-18 12:08
https://www.dropbox.com/s/brcukg8t4j0agic/DJI%20Remote%20ID%20Discussion%20Paper.pdf?dl=0
This was recommended by dji and ARC, and it’s pretty clear from white paper document what both organizations had intended by this.

Thank you for providing this clear and descriptive explanation for this sensitive subject.
Anyone who takes the time to read this exhaustive article will surely come away informed.
It's nice to know that the many concerns over this issue are being addressed in what appears to be a professional and complete manner.
Again, thank you Hallmark007 for helping us understand what is really going on here.

P.S. welcome back.
2-18 13:22
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HedgeTrimmer
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BobB Posted at 2-18 13:22
You guys run out of ... to talk about with this old(er) thread?

Not yet!  .
2-18 13:31
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hallmark007
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1Eagle Posted at 2-18 13:22
Thank you for providing this clear and descriptive explanation for this sensitive subject.
Anyone who takes the time to read this exhaustive article will surely come away informed.
It's nice to know that the many concerns over this issue are being addressed in what appears to be a professional and complete manner.

Well lots of stuff gets lost in translation, I think when EASA introduces this in July for Europe we might see a bit more clearly how this might work, having followed the whole Remote ID for over two years now for Europe, the emphasis seemed to be on better flying conditions for all hobbyists enthusiasts and commercial pilots, so we will soon see.
Europe has also been developing what will be known as U-Space specifically for future commercial business, so lots of stuff going on and much confusion, so hopefully over the next while some of the mire gets cleared up and we all can fly without looking over our shoulder .
2-18 13:41
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1Eagle
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-18 13:41
Well lots of stuff gets lost in translation, I think when EASA introduces this in July for Europe we might see a bit more clearly how this might work, having followed the whole Remote ID for over two years now for Europe, the emphasis seemed to be on better flying conditions for all hobbyists enthusiasts and commercial pilots, so we will soon see.
Europe has also been developing what will be known as U-Space specifically for future commercial business, so lots of stuff going on and much confusion, so hopefully over the next while some of the mire gets cleared up and we all can fly without looking over our shoulder .

“DJI understands that accountability is a key part of responsible drone use, and we have outlined a proposal that balances the privacy of drone operators with the legitimate concerns authorities have about some drone operations,” said Brendan Schulman, DJI Vice President of Policy and Legal Affairs.

“The focus of the primary method for remote identification should be on a way for anyone concerned about a drone flight in close proximity to report an identifier number to the authorities, who would then have the tools to investigate the complaint without infringing on operator privacy.”

“No other technology is subject to mandatory industry-wide tracking and recording of its use, and we strongly urge against making UAS the first such technology.

The overwhelming majority of personal and professional drone pilots operate safely and responsibly. However, DJI recognizes that law enforcement and aviation regulators need to be able to identify the owners of drones that may be operating unlawfully or in highly sensitive areas.

I fully support these points.
2-18 14:03
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hallmark007
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1Eagle Posted at 2-18 14:03
“DJI understands that accountability is a key part of responsible drone use, and we have outlined a proposal that balances the privacy of drone operators with the legitimate concerns authorities have about some drone operations,” said Brendan Schulman, DJI Vice President of Policy and Legal Affairs.

“The focus of the primary method for remote identification should be on a way for anyone concerned about a drone flight in close proximity to report an identifier number to the authorities, who would then have the tools to investigate the complaint without infringing on operator privacy.”

I fully second that .
2-18 14:10
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DAFlys
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-18 14:10
I fully second that .

DJI already sells a product to law enforcement that does exactly this already.
2-19 00:09
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hallmark007
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DAFlys Posted at 2-19 00:09
DJI already sells a product to law enforcement that does exactly this already.

Yes but it’s hugely expensive and really only feasible for airport use, and maybe other security conscious interests.
2-19 02:40
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hallmark007
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https://content.dji.com/who-shou ... e-pilot-is-located/
2-20 03:45
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-20 03:45
https://content.dji.com/who-should-know-where-a-drone-pilot-is-located/

Good article that everyone should read. Nice find!
2-20 11:56
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-19 02:40
Yes but it’s hugely expensive and really only feasible for airport use, and maybe other security conscious interests.

Good, I don't want anyone able to purchase it than responsible authorities with deep pockets.
2-20 13:26
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hallmark007
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Geebax Posted at 2-20 13:26
Good, I don't want anyone able to purchase it than responsible authorities with deep pockets.

Yeah will any of them know how to use it ;+)::::
2-20 14:09
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1Eagle Posted at 2-18 14:03
“DJI understands that accountability is a key part of responsible drone use, and we have outlined a proposal that balances the privacy of drone operators with the legitimate concerns authorities have about some drone operations,” said Brendan Schulman, DJI Vice President of Policy and Legal Affairs.

“The focus of the primary method for remote identification should be on a way for anyone concerned about a drone flight in close proximity to report an identifier number to the authorities, who would then have the tools to investigate the complaint without infringing on operator privacy.”

Then there is this...

"“At a minimum, the FAA should confirm, reinforce and publicize that  interfering with the pilot of an aircraft is a crime, by expressly  creating a UAS-specific provision in the federal regulations similar to  existing provisions that prohibit interference with aircraft  crewmembers. The FAA should penalize, and encourage the Department of  Justice to prosecute, anyone who assaults a UAS pilot during any stage  of the flight operation.”" ~ Alliance for Drone Innovation

Does anyone really believe such a rule will do any good or DOJ would actually bother prosecuting?

Remembering one of reasons Remote ID is being put in place is result of Pilots ignoring rules.  Betting in general public, there are people who will ignore suggested rule.  Might add carrying of Pepper spray to Flight bag.


Question for Alliance for Drone Innovation and FAA...    Will they penalize and encourage DOJ to prosecute overzealous LEOs?

We have already seen examples of LEOs confronting, harrassing UAV Pilots.  Along with confiscating UAV and equipment.  In one case, UAV Pilot was taken into custody, held, questioned, and arrested - despite having broken no law.  Came down to City Politics and revenue dollars.



Followed by...
"In our own NPRM comment, we plan to join these voices but also will work  to help find a solution to this concern that also can address the  desire of security and law enforcement officials to be able to find the  drone pilot in near-real time. Our commitment to innovation isn’t  complete if we cannot also help regulators solve real problems." ~ DJI Corporate

Soultion: Remote ID is broadcast encyrpted.  Two Apps, one for Public, one for LEOs.  Public App can report only.  LEO App is tied to LEOs professional Identification.  LEO App can report and request Pilot Information from FAA's own government secured Remote ID system.  Thus, allowing for tracking of use and abuse by ALL LEOs.



For FAA & Big brother...

If LEO is found abusing Remote ID system, LEO would face hefty fines and prison time.  Nobody is above the Law, right?


2-20 20:25
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hallmark007
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It’s getting close now for some, how it could look.

2-24 12:59
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hallmark007 Posted at 2-24 12:59
It’s getting close now for some, how it could look.

https://youtu.be/liG7tyE2v7w

Good to see the focus has shifted to the enforcement teams like police etc rather than general public.
2-25 01:43
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DAFlys Posted at 2-25 01:43
Good to see the focus has shifted to the enforcement teams like police etc rather than general public.

Yeah that’s were it needs to be, there were some around here trying to cause the usual unfounded hysteria, but so much more proof out there now that users know exactly what NPRM and FAA are trying to impose on them .

I’m surprised that nobody is posting their submissions here after all they are open to public .
2-27 11:46
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Despite the SPIN, DJI has not pulled back from what DJI Corp. previously said:
"DJI says that with this simple app “anyone within radio range of the drone can receive that signal and learn the location, altitude, speed and direction of the drone, as well as an identification number for the drone and the location of the pilot.” "

AND, according to DRACO Aerial, DJI has already pushed out firmware needed for simple app.   Despite fact, FAA is still in comment period!

Has DJI Gone Too Far? (DJI Drone to Phone Remote ID)  February 18, 2020
"DJI has updated their firmware to include the new Drone – to – Phone Broadcast Remote ID. This new remote id will allow ANYONE access to see where a drone is flying, its flight path and where the operator is located. This is not just for law enforcement but open to anyone with a cell phone."





Again, this is DJI Jumping the Gun!


2-28 19:43
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I have to say I’ve never seen such trash posted as I’ve seen above, a you tuber with 500 subs, can’t bring himself to clean himself up before he appears on camera, with clueless views idiotic beliefs and nothing backed up by anything, but I think the poster is very much in his league also completely clueless and more so ignorant of what is clearly the facts and I’m certain that all drone flyers here will completely ignore his ridiculous attempt at trying to detract from what exactly is going on here.This is the type of guy that would try convince you Elvis is still alive and Marlin Monroe shot JFK. Of late we have seen members shoot down his ridiculous prognosis on flight crashes and logs, outrageous statements so far out of his league, his continued efforts to lead new members astray with his off the wall ideas, I'm just glad that at last someone is now putting him where he belongs.

In fairness he seems very intent in letting us know he’d much prefer what the FAA are clearly touting, but alas once again he’s the only one singing in the choir in tune.
I think it’s clear that dji have never in almost 3 years diverted from their story and if anyone has a modicum of sense they would much prefer djis approach which you can hear straight from the horses mouth below than the completely ARCHAIC rules the FAA are trying to foist on all drone flyers, but consistently the poster above takes the proverbial I’ll stand on my own eccentric jaundiced view to try get people to Love the FAA and HATE dji . “ NUTS”





2-29 01:42
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hallmark007
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And again this fully explains exactly what’s going on here with the FAA demanding that pilots and their location be available to general public, and 3 times this is mentioned in NPRM.

https://content.dji.com/who-shou ... e-pilot-is-located/
2-29 01:57
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"I have to say I’ve never seen such trash posted as I’ve seen above," as in post #42.

Post #42, full of ad hominem attacks on Draco Aerial, yet nothing factual to counter the person.   

Which points to yet another Troll-N-Trash by DJI Fan-atic boy.



All to distract from fact...

DJI is standing firm with its previously stated plans of providing a simple app to public for free which will let “anyone within radio range of the drone can receive that signal and learn the location, altitude, speed and direction of the drone, as well as an identification number for the drone and the location of the pilot."
2-29 06:33
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hallmark007
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500 subs he’s most likely taught the poster everything he knows, LMAO .....
I think their are 30 videos around here that completely and honestly rubbish what Draco is saying, he's a complete befuddled fool who posted a ridiculous bunch of lies because he couldn't be bothered researching the truth.
So much proof on this forum already, but poster above ignores all and now stands alone again way out of his depth, refusing to believe two dji spokesperson's above and at least 8 other threads on this forum that completely debunk the rubbish he's peddling.
And I think when his only desperate option left was to post an almost unknown you tuber with 500 subs to squirm his way out of a point of argument he has lost months ago.
Maybe watch video below, and go to the thread link below and start desperately trying to peddle his BS .

https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=208826
2-29 07:33
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"he's a complete befuddled fool who posted a ridiculous bunch of lies because he couldn't be bothered researching the truth."

Karma for hypocrite.

Hypocrite's Karma

Hypocrite's Karma



Unlike resident DJI Fan-atic boy, I can Truthfully say, I have no finicial or other form of compensation with DJI or FAA.  

FAA is being used as Scapegoat.  It was other parties responding to FAA's call for Remote ID (authorized government employees), who pushed idea of World+Dog being able to recieve more information than FAA original called for.

Question drone owners should be asking is: Who gains most from now expanded form of Remote ID, the FAA or Drone manufactures looking to expand market to Commericial drone industry?



2-29 15:46
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So once again he’s the only one on this forum who believes his own BS, now openly calling two dji officials liars as we, Rick above also a liar and almost all members on this forum liars, indeed FAA FAN BOY,
Problem is doesn’t have the nads to go on all other threads and spew his MADE UP BS, because he knows it’s 100% lies.

His ridiculous logic, dji upset 100% of their customers, and hopes to grow its drone business, that is the biggest pile of BS anyone has tried to peddle around here. Upset your customers completely breech their privacy completely and then try to get the commercial world to do business with you, well I’m rolling around the floor laughing here, it’s worse than his idea to do a preflight in the middle of your flight.

He then try’s to convince EVERYONE HERE that they are fooling themselves that dji is lying to them both publicly and on this forum, he is now telling everyone that dji has been lying for the last 3 years along with ARC who were put together to come up with solutions for REMOTE ID by the FAA, he’s telling all of us that both Dji and ARC all 72 members have lied for 3 years , just so dji would grow their business by offending all 100% of their customers.
This guy lives in CUCKOO LAND he is not the full shilling, he is the only one here on this forum who believes his ridiculous made up BS, and why, well here’s why it is for nothing else except to TROLL ME .
2-29 16:31
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I really think this guy should lay off the sauce, obviously can’t handle it .
This is what HT is peddling.
1/ DJI ARE LYING
2/ WELL RESPECTED YOU TUBER RICK ABOVE IS LYING
3/ ALL THOSE SPEAKING LOGICALLY ARE LYING AS WELL AS 90% of ALL OTHER YOU TUBERS
4/ ALL DOCUMENTS GOING BACK LAST 3 YEARS FROM ARC AND DJI ARE LIES
5/ ALL MEMBERS HERE ARE WRONG (ACCEPT HIM) lmao
6/ DJI ARE TRYING TO PULL THE WOOL OVER CUSTOMERS AND ALL MEMBERS HERE BY LYING .
7/ DJI NO LONGER INTERESTED IN HOBBYISTS CUSTOMERS BUSINESS
8/ DJI ONLY INTERESTED IN COMMERCIAL BUSINESS9/ Him and Draco are the only ones telling us the real story, laughing hard now...

It has to be the most outrageous statement he's ever put out on this forum and he's put out many ridiculous ones, But to say a company is going to increase its business by insulting their customers breaching their privacy and putting them in grave danger is all a marketing ploy, well that's the kind of logic we are dealing with here.

2-29 16:33
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Another video committee 20 people or so saying and calling it as it is, An FAA initiative draconian rules and FAA wholly responsible for giving out pilots information and location and allowing companies to hold your data for 6 months.

Now we are being led to believe by Hedgetrimmer that all these people are liars and are lying to thousands of people on YT, I’ll post the video but just like the other 90% of videos Hedgetrimmer is saying they are wrong and lying.
In fairness he has said Draco with 500 subs and who is spewing same nonsense as himself is 100% correct, this is so funny now, talk about pi*sing against the wing.

Here’s the video HT says more lies haha......

2-29 17:40
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"So once again he’s the only one on this forum who believes his own BS, now openly calling two dji officials liars as we"

Always tell when hallmark007 knows he has lost, he jumps to putting words in people's mouths, making False accusations, and arm-waving lunacy.


2-29 21:47
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