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DJI makes app to identify drones and find pilots
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RBI
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Goodbye to data protection:

Drone maker DJI has demonstrated a way to quickly identify a  nearby drone, and pinpoint the location of its pilot, via a smartphone.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50414108


11-14 17:22
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JodyB
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DJI has been doing this for authority type entities , like airports, in the USA the FAA,Etc, for a few years now. Look up aeroscope for more details.
11-14 17:36
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Bob-Mavic Pro Platinum
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RBI , thank you for putting that link up, it is an interesting article.
11-14 19:32
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Dirty Bird
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This is a TERRIBLE idea that reminds me of what happened in Florida a while back with window barcodes on rental cars.  Thieves quickly picked up on the easy marks... tourists with fat wallets & cars loaded with stuff.  Didn't take long to figure out the criminals used the rental bar codes to tag their marks.

We fly, often secluded & alone in isolated or remote locations, focused on our drone.  DJI decides it's a good idea to broadcast the pilot's location to anyone with a cell phone.  What could possibly go wrong?   Soon there will be groups of thieves zeroing in on unsuspecting pilots, ready to relieve them of their excess baggage, wallets, vehicles, maybe their lives.  Lead straight to their quarry thanks to DJI!  

Just more intrusive BS from a company that seems intent on serving as the world's Drone Police.  EVO is looking more appealing with each passing day...
11-14 20:13
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-14 20:13
This is a TERRIBLE idea that reminds me of what happened in Florida a while back with barcodes on rental cars.  Thieves quickly picked up on the easy marks... tourists with fat wallets & cars loaded with stuff.  Didn't take long to figure out the criminals just used the rental bar codes to tag their marks.

We fly, often secluded & alone, focused on our drone.  DJI decides it's a good idea to broadcast the pilot's location to anyone with a cell phone.  What could possibly go wrong?   Soon there will be groups of thieves zeroing in on unsuspecting pilots, ready to relieve them of their excess baggage, wallets, vehicles, maybe their lives.  Lead straight to their prey thanks to DJI!  

Parrot Anafi comes to mind for me....
11-14 20:42
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Montfrooij
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Interesting innovation, although it can be used in 'less nice ways' too.
11-15 00:50
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Montfrooij
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-14 20:13
This is a TERRIBLE idea that reminds me of what happened in Florida a while back with barcodes on rental cars.  Thieves quickly picked up on the easy marks... tourists with fat wallets & cars loaded with stuff.  Didn't take long to figure out the criminals just used the rental bar codes to tag their marks.

We fly, often secluded & alone, focused on our drone.  DJI decides it's a good idea to broadcast the pilot's location to anyone with a cell phone.  What could possibly go wrong?   Soon there will be groups of thieves zeroing in on unsuspecting pilots, ready to relieve them of their excess baggage, wallets, vehicles, maybe their lives.  Lead straight to their prey thanks to DJI!  

This is what you get when people choose not to fly by the rules I suppose.
11-15 00:50
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DAFlys
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I dont like the idea of this. This will be the first update I will probably skip.
11-15 01:29
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-15 00:50
This is what you get when people choose not to fly by the rules I suppose.
Despite all the nonsensical, hyper-reactionary lunacy regarding consumer drones, NOT A SINGLE DEATH has been attributed to one of these contraptions.  In comparison, worldwide there are about 1.25 million vehicle deaths recorded each year, 3,287 deaths PER DAY, with an additional 20+ million injured or disabled.   Despite the mass carnage, we don't need manufacturer approval to drive a car.  Cars don't broadcast our speed & location so police can track us & cite us for violations.   With drones it is nothing but hysterical BS & DJI has bought into it 100%.
20191115_055924.jpg
11-15 03:04
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Montfrooij
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-15 03:04
Despite all the nonsensical, hyper-reactionary lunacy regarding consumer drones, NOT A SINGLE DEATH has been attributed to one of these contraptions.  In comparison, worldwide there are about 1.25 million vehicle deaths recorded each year, 3,287 deaths PER DAY, with an additional 20+ million injured or disabled.  Yet despite the carnage, you don't need manufacture approval to drive your car.  Cars don't broadcast your speed & location so police can show up & cite you for speeding.  With drones it is nothing but hysterical BS & DJI has bought into it 100%.

Very true.
New tech is scary.
Old tech is something we want to keep.....
11-15 03:06
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hallmark007
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Your phone company does this all the time and it doesn’t seem to bother anyone, I’m afraid we sold our souls to the devil a long time ago and it’s much to late to buy it back .
11-15 03:14
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-15 03:14
Your phone company does this all the time and it doesn’t seem to bother anyone, I’m afraid we sold our souls to the devil a long time ago and it’s much to late to buy it back .
Not a fan of that either but your cell phone isn't broadcasting your location to everyone & anyone with a cellphone.
11-15 03:18
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-14 20:13
This is a TERRIBLE idea that reminds me of what happened in Florida a while back with window barcodes on rental cars.  Thieves quickly picked up on the easy marks... tourists with fat wallets & cars loaded with stuff.  Didn't take long to figure out the criminals used the rental bar codes to tag their marks.

We fly, often secluded & alone, focused on our drone.  DJI decides it's a good idea to broadcast the pilot's location to anyone with a cell phone.  What could possibly go wrong?   Soon there will be groups of thieves zeroing in on unsuspecting pilots, ready to relieve them of their excess baggage, wallets, vehicles, maybe their lives.  Lead straight to their quarry thanks to DJI!  

Phone companies know where we are all the time and if one of us was lying in a ditch dying I’m certain we would surrender all our data just to be found, we’ve already done the deal with the Devil we have some protection in GDRP on this side of the water but it’s practically useless .
11-15 03:19
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Dirty Bird
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-15 03:19
Phone companies know where we are all the time and if one of us was lying in a ditch dying I’m certain we would surrender all our data just to be found, we’ve already done the deal with the Devil we have some protection in GDRP on this side of the water but it’s practically useless .

Cellphones don't broadcast your location to the general public.  Such a proposal wouldn't survive five seconds of scrutiny because it is obvious how this would be abused & put people at risk.  Stalkers, Jilted ex's, & hitmen would be the only supporters of such a proposition.
11-15 03:26
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-15 03:18
Not a fan of that either but your cell phone isn't broadcasting your location to everyone & anyone with a cellphone.

I’m not sure that’s true, but many will notice when doing a simple thing like walking down the street you get a push notification from Starbucks and low and behold your outside one, and this is a growing trend, so it’s nonsense to think they don’t know where we are, my point is this is gone to far to reverse and although the vultures are the culprits we must share some responsibility.

In most of our drones we now have the option to turn this off, it maybe for newer drones we don’t, but I reckon it won’t deter many from buying into it .

Everybody is sick about the lack of data protection, but it seems nobody can reverse it .
11-15 03:27
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Juliflash
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-14 20:13
This is a TERRIBLE idea that reminds me of what happened in Florida a while back with window barcodes on rental cars.  Thieves quickly picked up on the easy marks... tourists with fat wallets & cars loaded with stuff.  Didn't take long to figure out the criminals used the rental bar codes to tag their marks.

We fly, often secluded & alone, focused on our drone.  DJI decides it's a good idea to broadcast the pilot's location to anyone with a cell phone.  What could possibly go wrong?   Soon there will be groups of thieves zeroing in on unsuspecting pilots, ready to relieve them of their excess baggage, wallets, vehicles, maybe their lives.  Lead straight to their quarry thanks to DJI!  

Mixed feelings here, for one I understand the worries of some countries on having flying cameras everywhere, and the issue with airports, but still like many mention the fact they have to make you "visible" goes against once privacy...

I've been very interested in the EVO for some time, mainly for the chance of not using smartphone with the included LCD screen, + the 4K 60fps camera.
11-15 03:29
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Juliflash Posted at 11-15 03:29
Mixed feelings here, for one I understand the worries of some countries on having flying cameras everywhere, and the issue with airports, but still like many mention the fact they have to make you "visible" goes against once privacy...

I've been very interested in the EVO for some time, mainly for the chance of not using smartphone with the included LCD screen, + the 4K 60fps camera.

I don’t think it’s known yet that this will be compulsory as DB said it could have implications for innocent people flying drones, so I’m sure if it’s legal to do it, but could the FAA make it legal that’s probably something that may end up in Court.

Benefits I do see from it is, if you can be contacted by ATC then you may very well have more options to fly, so turn it on sign into nearest ATC , they can now warn you of any problems and keep you a safe distance from trouble, not sure if it will work for everyone but it has potential for commercial flying .

Before now ATC had no way of knowing where or how many drones were flying in areas of interest to them, just take a SAR heli coming into an area your flying in, you could be warned, this is not a bad thing.

Yes the privacy thing needs to be sorted first .
11-15 03:43
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m1n1s
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I'm guessing it will be easy to fool.
Launch from one location, turn off your data and location on your phone and move to a new location.

Obviously the drone will still transmit it's location until it looses GPS lock
11-15 04:07
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m1n1s Posted at 11-15 04:07
I'm guessing it will be easy to fool.
Launch from one location, turn off your data and location on your phone and move to a new location.

If it´s software it would be easy but if it´s hardware is gonna be a different story.
11-15 04:12
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-15 00:50
This is what you get when people choose not to fly by the rules I suppose.

This what you get when Governments decide way to deal with Law breakers is Blanket approach; go after everyone as if they are criminals.
11-15 09:27
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"IF" the FAA Mandates this, all manufacturers will have to comply with it. It won't be a DJI-only thing.
11-15 09:43
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KerryG Posted at 11-15 09:43
"IF" the FAA Mandates this, all manufacturers will have to comply with it. It won't be a DJI-only thing.

I’m amazed governments getting blamed for this, throughout Europe aviation authorities make the rules on aviation , not governments thank god, and I assumed it was the same in US .
11-15 09:51
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Hello and good day RBI. Thank you for reaching out and for sharing this informative link with us. Nice find and thank you for your support.
11-15 10:09
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-15 03:27
I’m not sure that’s true, but many will notice when doing a simple thing like walking down the street you get a push notification from Starbucks and low and behold your outside one, and this is a growing trend, so it’s nonsense to think they don’t know where we are, my point is this is gone to far to reverse and although the vultures are the culprits we must share some responsibility.

In most of our drones we now have the option to turn this off, it maybe for newer drones we don’t, but I reckon it won’t deter many from buying into it .

depends on your phone.  for me though, only seems to happen to me on android. sh*t my note 8 sometimes asks me how was my meal at such and such place 10 minutes after i left.. that kinda upsets me.  because i dont really want google up in my business like that so deeply not like i activated that service either.  that's all based on some google services, so its baked in.

  my iPhone on other hand doesn't ever ping me about anything, worst i get sometimes is their beacon service for bluetooth or wifi making some suggestion and usually only when im really close to the checkout area it may ask to download their app and save.


as for do cellular carrier track you.  that answer is extremely complicated cuz neither yes or no. it depends on phone you got, services/apps using it and how popular of a person you are if you are going to get called a lot or stay on phone often or been flying threw your facebook feed every few minutes or what.  more you are using the device the more opportunity for your phone to spout its location out by connecting to more and more towers.      but this is where i prefer iPhone over android as well, android tends to ping servers very often and this does burn up battery, specially noticeable when weak signal how much more power android uses doing seemingly nothing vs iPhones.
11-15 10:35
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Dirty Bird Posted at 11-14 20:13
This is a TERRIBLE idea that reminds me of what happened in Florida a while back with window barcodes on rental cars.  Thieves quickly picked up on the easy marks... tourists with fat wallets & cars loaded with stuff.  Didn't take long to figure out the criminals used the rental bar codes to tag their marks.

We fly, often secluded & alone, focused on our drone.  DJI decides it's a good idea to broadcast the pilot's location to anyone with a cell phone.  What could possibly go wrong?   Soon there will be groups of thieves zeroing in on unsuspecting pilots, ready to relieve them of their excess baggage, wallets, vehicles, maybe their lives.  Lead straight to their quarry thanks to DJI!  

I'm torn on this one.  I completely agree with you on the privacy issue.  On the other side, I would like to know things that were going on if they were close to me.  I tend to stay over 300' and in open fields or terrain to avoid my neighbors even knowing that I'm up there.
I pity the fool that rolls up on me with ill intentions though...my other hobby is much more expensive and has very real consequences if ever called upon in a threatening situation.
11-15 11:03
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The "funny" story about this is:

It would be very useful for a drone pilot, to know how far away another drone is.
Which , probably, could be a very easy task to perform, in case this technics would be used JUST for that.
Informing drone pilots about locations of other drones in, lets say, 200m radius around their own.

So DJI MISSED the chance, to introduce this as a safety thing for the drone owners, and after that, open it up for police and such.

And honestly, looking on the privacy rules in the E(not)U, these days,  it would need much explaining.
Explaining why people I do not know and do not have business with, have to have the ability, to know MY location and the location of my birds!

However, that the local authorities get (have?) something like this, is a expected thing. (imho ;-)
11-15 11:15
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In general, when you install apps on your phone, or when you initially set up your phone, you opt into (or specifically don't opt-out of) various technologies that know and share your phone's location.  The phone hardware (find my phone/or the equivalent location finding tech on Android) or an installed app may share that data with other apps, or only with the service that enables that app.  Either way, services that know where you are in the world rely on your location sharing consent (e.g. opt-in) as well as using signals from your phone to notify you.  Take the coffee shop visit example.  If you used their in-shop wifi on your phone, and you also separately granted the coffee shop app permission to do "things" on your phone (you did read the full terms of use, didn't you?) then, the app could detect when the coffee shop wifi is no longer in range of your phone, and pop up a notification offering you a 5% discount on your next order. Your wifi has a specific "serial number" (MAC address) so the next time you're in that coffee shop (or another location for the same coffee shop company), voila! they know you're there, and when you leave. If your wifi is on, you're publicly broadcasting your general (not GPS or triangulated) location to everyone around you.  Got Bluetooth on for your headphones / earbuds?  That has a serial number (MAC address) that you're publicly broadcasting too.  How is all this broadcasting actually useful to you?  ATM card skimmers use Bluetooth, and there are apps that know the signature of ATM skimmers, so you can install an app on your phone that captures all the Bluetooth signals while your'e at the gas station (or wherever) and tell you if any are from ATM card skimmers.  Data sharing for the win.  That said, if you're still not happy about all this data and location sharing, for all the non-DJI apps/services that bug you about location awareness, you can turn off all the location sharing permissions for all your apps and in general for the phone (e.g. "on-device sharing" in Settings).  As to DJI knowing the drone and pilot location, I am mixed on this point.  I don't want to interfere with local SAR, or interfere with otherwise legal and important ground or air operations.  However, I do want control of when and where (to whom) any of that data goes.  It sounds like user consent & control of location sharing might not be optional in the future for drone flying.  
11-15 12:46
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Personally, I have no quorums with sharing with authorities and the likes. But I'm not to keen on sharing with someone who just has a problem in general with drones and uses this information to come find me or someone who is legally flying their drone and shoots it down. As with anything, it's a good thing in the right hands, but in the wrong hands....
11-15 12:50
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A DJI Mavic 2 Pro pilot was stabbed just a few months ago in the UK for his drone. Basically a bunch of thugs came across the pilot in a field just by chance. They stabbed him in the stomach and back, then proceeded to steal his drone. Thankfully the guy lived, albeit he is still recovering. So now DJI will be giving the tools to the criminals, thugs and robbers so they can target a drone flyer location for their expensive drones. I for one will drop DJI like a stone once they publish pilot location detection. Even DJI must know it will destroy their name, so what are they really up to?
11-15 12:52
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 11-15 10:35
depends on your phone.  for me though, only seems to happen to me on android. sh*t my note 8 sometimes asks me how was my meal at such and such place 10 minutes after i left.. that kinda upsets me.  because i dont really want google up in my business like that so deeply not like i activated that service either.  that's all based on some google services, so its baked in.

  my iPhone on other hand doesn't ever ping me about anything, worst i get sometimes is their beacon service for bluetooth or wifi making some suggestion and usually only when im really close to the checkout area it may ask to download their app and save.

"only seems to happen to me on android"

Android OS was bought by Google years ago, and Google developes and controls Android OS.   History of Android OS
If you know Google, then you know why it is all up in your business.
You can also credit Alphabet Inc., the parent company of Google.  Alphabet is multinational conglomerate with it's fingers in every thing.

Turning off tracking does not really stop tracking.  Some of Google's Android Apps continue to collect and store tracking information.  Supposedly to enhance user's experience.  Like delivering up relevant Ads based up location.  


Turning off GPS won't help because Android OS uses cell tower information for location.  Turn off Cellular service, and Android OS will use any nearby WiFi and BlueTooth services.  Coupled to Android device's builtin Compass and Motion sensors.  


11-15 13:12
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 11-15 13:12
"only seems to happen to me on android"

Android OS was bought by Google years ago, and Google developes and controls Android OS.   History of Android OS

Areoscope (made by DJI) doesn't use the phone or tablet to gain information. It intercepts the transmission between the controller and the drone and deciphers that data. Check out this video for more of how that works.




11-15 13:19
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RedWolf18 Posted at 11-15 12:52
A DJI Mavic 2 Pro pilot was stabbed just a few months ago in the UK for his drone. Basically a bunch of thugs came across the pilot in a field just by chance. They stabbed him in the stomach and back, then proceeded to steal his drone. Thankfully the guy lived, albeit he is still recovering. So now DJI will be giving the tools to the criminals, thugs and robbers so they can target a drone flyer location for their expensive drones. I for one will drop DJI like a stone once they publish pilot location detection. Even DJI must know it will destroy their name, so what are they really up to?

So no I’d out there just goes to show that if criminals want it they’ll get it, if you had better policing then maybe the crime wouldn’t happen and isn’t this what djis ultimate goal is better policing of drone flying, someone above said no one has been killed because of a drone, it looks like this was a pretty close one.

Criminals don’t need to look up apps to find out where drone flyers are, it’s the guy with the RC it’s easy .
11-15 13:21
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-15 13:21
So no I’d out there just goes to show that if criminals want it they’ll get it, if you had better policing then maybe the crime wouldn’t happen and isn’t this what djis ultimate goal is better policing of drone flying, someone above said no one has been killed because of a drone, it looks like this was a pretty close one.

Criminals don’t need to look up apps to find out where drone flyers are, it’s the guy with the RC it’s easy .

100% agreed hallmark007!!
11-15 13:23
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JodyB Posted at 11-15 12:50
Personally, I have no quorums with sharing with authorities and the likes. But I'm not to keen on sharing with someone who just has a problem in general with drones and uses this information to come find me or someone who is legally flying their drone and shoots it down. As with anything, it's a good thing in the right hands, but in the wrong hands....

"As with anything, it's a good thing in the right hands, but in the wrong hands...."

At issue is: Who are "right hands"?  

Sure isn't U.S. Government or some of our State Governments.  At both levels we have seen abuse of power involving blantant violations of our Laws.  Being neither is held accountable, the violations only get worse.


11-15 13:24
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JodyB Posted at 11-15 13:19
Areoscope (made by DJI) doesn't use the phone or tablet to gain information. It intercepts the transmission between the controller and the drone and deciphers that data. Check out this video for more of how that works.

that's not the point of the argument, Aeroscope is only given to specific people, nott general public.  the heart of the debate is giving general public ability to track you with dji drone app location thingy, which is a terrible idea in my opinion..

the whole cell phone bit is cuz someone mentioned cell phones do this already, which is yes and no depending how its setup and what services/apps are used.
11-15 13:24
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 11-15 13:24
that's not the point of the argument, Aeroscope is only given to specific people, nott general public.  the heart of the debate is giving general public ability to track you with dji drone app location thingy, which is a terrible idea in my opinion..

the whole cell phone bit is cuz someone mentioned cell phones do this already, which is yes and no depending how its setup and what services/apps are used.

My point with aeroscope is how it works to locate "rogue" drones. The user that has the drone locating app has a device that contains all the same hardware as aeroscope, just on a smaller model. And by that I think it would be a moot point for a pilot to turn off GPS location, etc etc.
11-15 13:27
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JodyB Posted at 11-15 13:19
Areoscope (made by DJI) doesn't use the phone or tablet to gain information. It intercepts the transmission between the controller and the drone and deciphers that data. Check out this video for more of how that works.

Seen that sometime back.  
Not exactly something available to John Q. Public and not affordable to masses.  Whereas DJI's drone identification App will be.
11-15 13:30
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JodyB Posted at 11-15 13:27
My point with aeroscope is how it works to locate "rogue" drones. The user that has the drone locating app has a device that contains all the same hardware as aeroscope, just on a smaller model. And by that I think it would be a moot point for a pilot to turn off GPS location, etc etc.

this is literally a app proposal not a seperate device.  how it will retrieve this info is in question.  but not hard to imagine that dji will just force enable the beaconing system already baked into DJI Go 4 (by default is enabled but unpopulated at the moment for non aeroscope tracking) and port the variables over cellular/wifi in the background for anyone to pickup with the app that's being proposed.
11-15 13:34
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 11-15 13:24
that's not the point of the argument, Aeroscope is only given to specific people, nott general public.  the heart of the debate is giving general public ability to track you with dji drone app location thingy, which is a terrible idea in my opinion..

the whole cell phone bit is cuz someone mentioned cell phones do this already, which is yes and no depending how its setup and what services/apps are used.

Yes this is the same as it stands with your drones, you can at this moment choose to have on or off, so the same as your phone, so yes phone is at this time relevant, in fact if you read this article you will see it’s the FAA that are driving the need to identify drone users and want this to form part of their rules, I’m certain in Europe as things stand because of GDPR this would not be allowed unless user gave permission, there is no such thing as GDPR in the us, so you have less protection .
11-15 13:35
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-15 13:35
Yes this is the same as it stands with your drones, you can at this moment choose to have on or off, so the same as your phone, so yes phone is at this time relevant, in fact if you read this article you will see it’s the FAA that are driving the need to identify drone users and want this to form part of their rules, I’m certain in Europe as things stand because of GDPR this would not be allowed unless user gave permission, there is no such thing as GDPR in the us, so you have less protection .

we have the right to privacy and tons of privacy laws so i would be interested in counter debates to shoot this down.  the issue is drones are such a grey area everyone seems so effing spooked over them that im sure going to get misrepresented when being challenged with privacy laws.  add to that that more and more things turning into guilty until proven innocent, ya maybe an uphill battle.  

im sure if it gets put into a policy that they were need to be an opt in/out system though..
11-15 13:53
Use props
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