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DJI wants to let anyone with a smartphone monitor nearby drones
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akozc
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As title says,  do we really need this kind of control ????





Details are here

2019-11-15
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JohnDG
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Well, tried out once another app that was claiming it detected drones. Only those on WiFi where detected, not my Mavic.
But, could be nice to see if anybody else is around and avoid collision.
2019-11-16
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Hello and good day akozc. Thank you for reaching out and for sharing this informative link you have provided. I hope that you will get the best thoughts of our valued DJI co pilots with regards to this matter. Have a safe and a happy flying always.
2019-11-16
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HereForTheBeer
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i dont think chinese people even remotely understand rights to privacy.. because if they did DJI wouldn't even consider this app.  good way to kill the hobby and earn backlash from your people who made you into the company you are, DJI.  

like with this app hell even i may become a thief if its that easy, hold people up for their drones , steal it and sell them off to a fence who can keep me clean and handle moving the product for me and give me cash.  i spoke to a guy that knows a bit about this more than i do and he said that he be willing to do mavic 2 pro for $1000 cash up front easily, may even give me more per unit cuz he can either sell it entirely or have it broken down and sold for parts to repair shops, all about how easy, clean and quickly things move.  
2019-11-16
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hallmark007
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 11-16 10:13
i dont think chinese people even remotely understand rights to privacy.. because if they did DJI wouldn't even consider this app.  good way to kill the hobby and earn backlash from your people who made you into the company you are, DJI.  

like with this app hell even i may become a thief if its that easy, hold people up for their drones , steal it and sell them off to a fence who can keep me clean and handle moving the product for me and give me cash.  i spoke to a guy that knows a bit about this more than i do and he said that he be willing to do mavic 2 pro for $1000 cash up front easily, may even give me more per unit cuz he can either sell it entirely or have it broken down and sold for parts to repair shops, all about how easy, clean and quickly things move.

Again you have this totally arse ways , it’s the FAA that’s driving this, have you read any articles on this dji have not said anywhere they will introduce this but if the FAA make it a rule of flying in the US then they have no choice.
Yes it’s America that’s driving this forward and it’s America who wants to invade Americans privacy, Not Chinese.
2019-11-16
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hallmark007
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It’s the FAA that wants to invade users privacy not Dji .
2019-11-16
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HereForTheBeer
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-16 10:31
Again you have this totally arse ways , it’s the FAA that’s driving this, have you read any articles on this dji have not said anywhere they will introduce this but if the FAA make it a rule of flying in the US then they have no choice.
Yes it’s America that’s driving this forward and it’s America who wants to invade Americans privacy, Not Chinese.

yet the only company doing anything is from a country that have no privacy right of its own people..chinese and DJI.   
2019-11-16
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hallmark007
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 11-16 10:37
yet the only company doing anything is from a country that have no privacy right of its own people..chinese and DJI.

Again that’s frankly ridiculous, it’s the FAA who have publicly said they want this and they will roll this out and nobody seems to bothered about that .

Of course if dji knew the FAA would be looking for this would be prudent to be a head of the game and I’m certain dji will not impose this on any users unless it’s a rule .
2019-11-16
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HereForTheBeer
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-16 10:50
Again that’s frankly ridiculous, it’s the FAA who have publicly said they want this and they will roll this out and nobody seems to bothered about that .

Of course if dji knew the FAA would be looking for this would be prudent to be a head of the game and I’m certain dji will not impose this on any users unless it’s a rule .

FAA does not rule the roost, they have to go through multiple layers of legal system to get something to be put into law, many of their rules are just...rules. lets me real, the most they been able to do is hand out fines, if these rules were really rules and you broken them in way thats, fairly typical then they would have the authority to have you arressed for daring to fly twice the AGL limit of 400 feet for example.  
additionally i dont see any other drone maker, like Skydio or Autel that are so willing to eager to comply and reduce our privacy and safety.   
2019-11-16
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hallmark007
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HereForTheBeer Posted at 11-16 11:01
FAA does not rule the roost, they have to go through multiple layers of legal system to get something to be put into law, many of their rules are just...rules. lets me real, the most they been able to do is hand out fines, if these rules were really rules and you broken them in way thats, fairly typical then they would have the authority to have you arressed for daring to fly twice the AGL limit of 400 feet for example.  
additionally i dont see any other drone maker, like Skydio or Autel that are so willing to eager to comply and reduce our privacy and safety.

It unbelievable how you seem now not so eager to face up to what’s staring you in the face. This is an FAA thing not a dji thing and you don’t know what skydio or Autel have ready to go and if they don’t then they could be in trouble.
2019-11-16
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HereForTheBeer
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-16 11:08
It unbelievable how you seem now not so eager to face up to what’s staring you in the face. This is an FAA thing not a dji thing and you don’t know what skydio or Autel have ready to go and if they don’t then they could be in trouble.

cool story bro, either way i see more  $$$ in my future
2019-11-16
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Montfrooij
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I have not made my final thoughts on this one yet.
2019-11-16
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-16 11:21
I have not made my final thoughts on this one yet.

The security implications of this need to be really thought through. Just how much info will the app give away to Joe Randomer? Operator/Flier ID? Registered address? Name?  It doesn't take too much work to extract data from just this , find  work addresses, vehicle registrations,  home addresses.

A security minefield, potentially endangering the drone operator  in all manner of ways from burglary / theft to much more.

Regards



2019-11-16
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Montfrooij
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Hover-Fly Posted at 11-16 12:42
The security implications of this need to be really thought through. Just how much info will the app give away to Joe Randomer? Operator/Flier ID? Registered address? Name?  It doesn't take too much work to extract data from just this , find  work addresses, vehicle registrations,  home addresses.

A security minefield, potentially endangering the drone operator  in all manner of ways from burglary / theft to much more.

We'll see how it goes.
2019-11-16
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hallmark007
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-16 11:21
I have not made my final thoughts on this one yet.

This might help, it explains how it really is and who is charged with implementing it and it’s not dji .

2019-11-17
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akozc
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If it become reality then would be a very scary issue.
imagine when you flying your drone it accidently crashed somewhere off your reach and the person ,who was watching your drone movements on his mobile, could pick it up  before you get it.
Or ,when you were flying innocently in your backyard , your paranoiac neighbor could  non stop  call the police because your drone passing over his roof.
List can go longer and longer and drone users can be abused recklessly.
There should be at least an option on the DJI GO 4 to temporary block your ID and if you really want to expose yourself (for any reason)  then it can be activated.
2019-11-17
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akozc Posted at 11-17 19:47
If it become reality then would be a very scary issue.
imagine when you flying your drone it accidently crashed somewhere off your reach and the person ,who was watching your drone movements on his mobile, could pick it up  before you get it.
Or ,when you were flying innocently in your backyard , your paranoiac neighbor could  non stop  call the police because your drone passing over his roof.

Another thread about several of issues with DJI's Drone / Pilot ID App.

One of which is bad guys using App to know when a Pilot is out flying, thus away from home.  Knowing when Pilot is done flying, and it is time to make their escape with their booty.
2019-11-17
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-17 11:55
This might help, it explains how it really is and who is charged with implementing it and it’s not dji .

https://youtu.be/QI5DWktaQiw

Thanks for the video!
2019-11-17
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hallmark007
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akozc Posted at 11-17 19:47
If it become reality then would be a very scary issue.
imagine when you flying your drone it accidently crashed somewhere off your reach and the person ,who was watching your drone movements on his mobile, could pick it up  before you get it.
Or ,when you were flying innocently in your backyard , your paranoiac neighbor could  non stop  call the police because your drone passing over his roof.

Yes and it’s 100% down to the FAA and it’s them people should be lobbying I wonder what the Americans will do with all our data .

Maybe we might find out if we get another William Snowden .
2019-11-18
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SPIKE_151
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Apart from the FAA , DJI have said that if this becomes active legislation in USA and Europe they may create an mandatory update for the drone that will send out this information including the location of the drone pilot, as well the registration number of the drone amongst other data protected items. But will this work with Litchi and other 3rd party apps for control of the drone.
2019-11-18
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hallmark007
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SPIKE_151 Posted at 11-18 04:10
Apart from the FAA , DJI have said that if this becomes active legislation in USA and Europe they may create an mandatory update for the drone that will send out this information including the location of the drone pilot, as well the registration number of the drone amongst other data protected items. But will this work with Litchi and other 3rd party apps for control of the drone.

They haven’t said that they said that both FAA and EASA had requested this , so they developed the app at there behest, they dji have also asked there users to lobby against such happening .
It almost ridiculous to think that dji would try to upset most of their customers by implementing this on their own volition, don’t you think, or maybe you can explain the benefits for them voluntarily doing this. You should watch video above to hear and see what dji have said .
2019-11-18
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-18 04:34
They haven’t said that they said that both FAA and EASA had requested this , so they developed the app at there behest, they dji have also asked there users to lobby against such happening .
It almost ridiculous to think that dji would try to upset most of their customers by implementing this on their own volition, don’t you think, or maybe you can explain the benefits for them voluntarily doing this. You should watch video above to hear and see what dji have said .

I have no doubt that DJI dont want to do it, nor do the majority of drone users, however if the USA government deny them a license to sell their product in the USA unless they do it, their hands are tied. DJI may urge people to write to their respective governments to stop this, but as a group, do hobby drone fliers carry any respective political weight to get this over turned ? I suspect not in the USA and Europe which will follow these legislation changes if they are passed in the USA
2019-11-18
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SPIKE_151 Posted at 11-18 07:24
I have no doubt that DJI dont want to do it, nor do the majority of drone users, however if the USA government deny them a license to sell their product in the USA unless they do it, their hands are tied. DJI may urge people to write to their respective governments to stop this, but as a group, do hobby drone fliers carry any respective political weight to get this over turned ? I suspect not in the USA and Europe which will follow these legislation changes if they are passed in the USA

Again Spike I have to tell you Europe have already passed this and it will come into play next July , the privacy will be different in Europe because of GDPR, Europe where always way ahead of US on this .
2019-11-18
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At issue is mixing of what FAA is calling for and what DJI has chosen to do with Remote drone ID.

FAA is calling for Remote ID as follows: "Remote ID would assist the FAA, law enforcement, and Federal security agencies when a UAS appears to be flying in an unsafe manner or where the drone is not allowed to fly."


Whereas DJI has choosen to broadcast Remote ID for anyone to receive and is providing a Free App to everyone.

2019-11-18
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hallmark007
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Again the idiot and this time in his extra large colored font, he has failed to watch the video where it Clearly says that FAA IS INSISTING THAT ID BEING BROADCAST WILL BE FOR GENERAL PUBLIC, dji go on to advise users to lobby the FAA to stop this , and continuing at length to explain how by lobbying that other groups had managed to change the FAA’s mind on other rules.

In simple terms:
1/ FAA requested that all drones be fitted with pilot ID
2/ FAA want this information broadcast to authorities police and general public in the vicinity which they are saying will be approximately 300/500 metres

3/ this is wholly and without favor to anyone at the behest of FAA and all aviation authorities.

But we have one lone rouge fool that no matter what is said or published is convinced that this is All down to dji, but I’m not surprised he spends all his time on this forum knocking everything creating hysteria spreading his hate and offers scant help to anyone an incidentally doesn’t fly a drone .
2019-11-18
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-18 08:36
Again the idiot and this time in his extra large colored font, he has failed to watch the video where it Clearly says that FAA IS INSISTING THAT ID BEING BROADCAST WILL BE FOR GENERAL PUBLIC, dji go on to advise users to lobby the FAA to stop this , and continuing at length to explain how by lobbying that other groups had managed to change the FAA’s mind on other rules.

In simple terms:

You can Twist, Deny, SPIN, and B.low S.moke all you want.   However FAA's own website says Remote ID is for FAA, LEOs, and Federal agencies involved security.


Remote ID would assist the FAA, law enforcement, and Federal security agencies when a UAS appears to be flying in an unsafe manner or where the drone is not allowed to fly.

Public is only mentioned once: "The FAA is currently drafting a proposed rule on Remote Identification for public comment."  No where on webpage does it say anything about requiring makers like DJI to provide Free App to general Public for Drone / Pilot identification.  Let alone provide a reason for Drone's current flight.


2019-11-18
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hallmark007
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He’s completely lost the plot, everyone knows Pilot ID was at the behest of FAA and other Avaition authorities, anyone who watches the video will clearly see Dji asking drone users to lobby the FAA regarding their privacy in fact the title of the video is How Dji Fulfils Remote Pilot ID On Mobile A Why Privacy is Pivotal With Brendan Shulman. Now what part of the video did dji say they were going to implement showing the general public anyone’s flights, answer nowhere.

Only an idiot would think that dji are going to upset ALL their customers for absolute no gain.

This idiot hasn’t watched any of the videos , he’s making ridiculous statements, he’s completely off his head.

He spends All his time on this forum trying to create hysteria, But forum members have the savvy not to give him the time of day.
He has no interest in drones no interest in members here except to cause hysteria.
But this is the biggest boob he’s ever come up with here.

I’ll spell it out, All drone users All groups All drone clubs And dji are now asking users and members to lobby FAA to look at not implementing divulging their info or their flights, when this comes up for discussion, by all accounts in December .

But we have one and only one idiot on this forum who is trying to get others to lobby dji  to inform others with his ridiculous notions which at this stage are bordering on Mental, I’m just glad other members have the good sense to ignore him, because it’s utter rubbish .
2019-11-18
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-18 13:25
He’s completely lost the plot, everyone knows Pilot ID was at the behest of FAA and other Avaition authorities, anyone who watches the video will clearly see Dji asking drone users to lobby the FAA regarding their privacy in fact the title of the video is How Dji Fulfils Remote Pilot ID On Mobile A Why Privacy is Pivotal With Brendan Shulman. Now what part of the video did dji say they were going to implement showing the general public anyone’s flights, answer nowhere.

Only an idiot would think that dji are going to upset ALL their customers for absolute no gain.

hallmark007, you can use all insults you want.  But fact remains FAA has not pushed DJI to make a Free App available to anyone.   DJI chose to do that on their own.  

Now you try to twist it all around from Topic of this thread to being about FAA calling for Remote ID only available to FAA, LEOs, and Federal security services.

You choose to defend DJI by laying blame at feet of FAA; and you got shown to be wrong.  As usually you can not deal with it.  And have chosen as always to go with Insults and SPIN.
2019-11-18
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-18 13:25
He’s completely lost the plot, everyone knows Pilot ID was at the behest of FAA and other Avaition authorities, anyone who watches the video will clearly see Dji asking drone users to lobby the FAA regarding their privacy in fact the title of the video is How Dji Fulfils Remote Pilot ID On Mobile A Why Privacy is Pivotal With Brendan Shulman. Now what part of the video did dji say they were going to implement showing the general public anyone’s flights, answer nowhere.

Only an idiot would think that dji are going to upset ALL their customers for absolute no gain.

hallmark007 - "Now what part of the video did dji say they were going to implement showing the general public anyone’s flights, answer nowhere."

Once again, with your Twisting and SPINing.  The topic of thread is not your posted video.  The OP posted article which says:

The tracking technology will be made available to the public via a smartphone app, DJI said. Using only Wi-Fi, a person could use the app to identify a nearby drone’s identification number, as well as location, altitude, speed, and direction of the drone.

"anyone's flights" = Tracking technology - avaliable to the public - Drone's ID#, location (GPS?), altitude, speed, and direction


DJI's own news room backs up what article says:  Using a simple app, anyone within radio range of the drone can receive that signal and learn the location, altitude, speed and direction of the drone, as well as an identification number for the drone and the location of the pilot.

Seems your DJI interview video left out part of DJI's App providing "general public anyone’s flights" (aka Tracking technology).


2019-11-18
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-16 11:21
I have not made my final thoughts on this one yet.

PM, I am with you on this, there is more to it than meets the eye.
2019-11-18
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Bob-Mavic Pro Platinum Posted at 11-18 19:21
PM, I am with you on this, there is more to it than meets the eye.

I will be watching what happens.
2019-11-18
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hallmark007
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So we all have HW in our drones or our RC which they call UUID, To identify us as pilots of a drone, as a requirement now by both EASA AND FAA this hardware should be supported by SW allowing ATC , POLICE, SECURITY AND PUBLIC to view online our flight position heading our ID and our location, in order to allow this dji demonstrated their SW last week in Canada to meet the FAA requirements For this new form of ID, it is now up to users to put their case forward for any change in what the FAA requires, there will be an open window in December for users and groups to state their case and need to change what they don’t agree with.
I’m sure all users here except one will realize that you cannot work this HW with the SW.

All of this is clearly explained in two videos on this forum, it’s pointless lobbying dji on this matter as they are completely on your side with this one again explained in the video, so unlike the one here, dont waste your time lobbying here go to FAA website and if you want something changed before FAA impose all of this on drone users I suggest start working on it now.

As far as this whinger is concerned , I won’t be replying or giving him anymore credence, it’s a complete waste of my time.
2019-11-19
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Only one reason to Lobby FAA, to make sure FAA stays with their proposed requirement of:
"Remote ID would assist the FAA, law enforcement, and Federal security agencies when a UAS appears to be flying in an unsafe manner or where the drone is not allowed to fly."

Emphasizing FAA does not add a requirement of Remote ID being made available to Public!


Where as it is essential to Lobby DJI to only implement absolute minimum the FAA requires:
Which is only Remote ID to authorized legal authorities per FAA.  Nothing more.

Emphasizing DJI does not make Remote ID available to Public.  

Remote ID is transmitted in a encrypted format, whereby only authorized legal authorities can determine actual drone Owner or Pilot.
DJI's privacy violating Tracking App is never made avaiable to Public.
2019-11-19
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That simply isnt possible.  Its either broadcast or it isnt.  Its not possible to have it only available to specific users.

This press releases proposes a firmware update to add WiFi-Aware ( https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-aware ) to drones.  Its a public protocol.  It does not need a DJI app to read the details, anyone can do it.  Its a standard protocol.

Dont forget the drones ALREADY broadcast location, home location, serial number and other data in a format that untrusted 3rd parties can access (its how aeroscope works).

And a WiFi-Aware transponder doesn't violate any privacy at all.  Its no different to a router advertising its MAC and SSID.
2019-11-19
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gnirtS Posted at 11-19 20:28
That simply isnt possible.  Its either broadcast or it isnt.  Its not possible to have it only available to specific users.

This press releases proposes a firmware update to add WiFi-Aware ( https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-aware ) to drones.  Its a public protocol.  It does not need a DJI app to read the details, anyone can do it.  Its a standard protocol.

Encrypted.  Ensuring only legally authorized authorities have access to Drone / Pilot ID.

Lesser secure method, would be for FAA to issue Drone ID to registering owner / pilot which is not publicly accessible.  Only FAA, LEOs, and Federal agencies involved in security would be able to look up who owner / pilot is.
2019-11-20
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HedgeTrimmer Posted at 11-20 10:33
Encrypted.  Ensuring only legally authorized authorities have access to Drone / Pilot ID.

Lesser secure method, would be for FAA to issue Drone ID to registering owner / pilot which is not publicly accessible.  Only FAA, LEOs, and Federal agencies involved in security would be able to look up who owner / pilot is.

"Encrypted" mean nothing.

If it is properly encrypted using dynamically generated end to end keys then it cant be decoded.

If its "encrypted" using static keys which are then shared with many users/bodies/software/apps then its 100% certain those are going to end up with people you dont want to have them.  And therefore its easily decoded.

Occusync has been reverse engineered and hacked.  So has lightbridge.  They all have.

Don't forget this is DJI - the company that cares so much about security that it left a load of private keys on GitHub for months.

Again, aeroscope works because some (maybe all) telemetry is not secured.
2019-11-20
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gnirtS Posted at 11-20 17:02
"Encrypted" mean nothing.

If it is properly encrypted using dynamically generated end to end keys then it cant be decoded.

If its "encrypted" using static keys which are then shared with many users/bodies/software/apps then its 100% certain those are going to end up with people you dont want to have them.  And therefore its easily decoded.

The static keys would not have to be shared.  Captured encrypted Remote ID would be entered into a FAA system program having static key, which outputs Owner/Pilot Registration.  


Using such a system would require authorized FAA staff, LEOs, and Federal Security personel to have Logins.  Such a system provides tracking of abusive use by authorized users and attempts to use by those not authorized.

The static keys would not have to be Forever.  Keys could be changed with firmware updates, causing Remote ID to change, with FAA system program getting new static key.
2019-11-21
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I think this 3rd video again explains djis position on remote ID , but I’m certain they doom and gloom hysteria one man squad will say it’s not true, wait for it.

2019-11-21
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hallmark007 Posted at 11-21 11:33
I think this 3rd video again explains djis position on remote ID , but I’m certain they doom and gloom hysteria one man squad will say it’s not true, wait for it.


Why the video?   It is not an Official DJI or Official FAA video.


Already been made very clear DJI's Official position is to broadcast:
1) more data and information than what FAA's proposal requires.
2) to general public vs. FAA's proposal limited group of FAA, LEOs, and Federal agencies providing security.

Already been made very clear who people should contact about proposed requirement and DJI's approach.


Don't know this for sure, but taking a guess as to why DJI's approach.
1) Simplist way to meet FAA's requirment was to defintively exceed it.
2) Easier to implement by broadcasting information to World + dog.
3) DJI didn't consider privacy to be of issue, possibly due to differences in societies.
4) DJI failed to consider safety and security concerns of publicily broadcasting the infomration.




2019-11-21
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hallmark007
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We are now through 3 videos with three very respected you tubers and a representative from dji all saying exactly the same thing, that FAA requested from all drone manufacturers a system that would identify drones and their flight path altitude distance from take off etc and the user.it seems according to one they are all lying making it up all trying to pull the wool overe all our eyes, Even when it's staring us in the face he lives in denial, Excerpts taken directly from FAA website shows clearly who the FAA intends your ID to be broadcast to.
Everyone  anyone it's pretty much self explanatory.


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2019-11-22
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