Hey all,

Recieved a Mavic Mini for christmas, and have been playing with it nonstop (until now...)
Haven't had any problems until today, when I was flying it over a beach when suddenly it stopped responding to my commands.

I assume it hit some sort of wind, which kept pushing it further and further out to sea while the battery dropped lower and lower.
I tried reducing altitude, but nothing worked.

Could some of you more experienced folk take a look at my log and maybe confirm what happened? Much appreciated. There goes my christmas present ;(

Thanks all!

Sorry for your loss. Jetstreams are 20,000+ ft so no it wasn’t a jet stream. But it could have been a wind that the mini was not capable of handling.

A "rip tide" in the air, maybe?

Such a thing may be possible.  Weather and air currents are complex, to say the least.  Chaos and all of that!

Hi azntastic,

Had a look at your flight and i do not think it was the really wind....

Your first part of the flight easy one, but reaching 927 meters away it looks like you did not know how to fly back to home.

Distance out with no RC input did not really change, so the wind did not blow it further away.
At 3m36 it lost connectiin, an out of control RTH started.
At3m54s connected again ; heading now 133 (was 318 before), so it pointed towards home (HP 127)
Distance out 927, after 7 seconds RTH cancelled. distance  928 meters.
In sport mode (heading to home was good), yaw move to heading 320.
But with no input distance out remains the same, but craft needs power to keep in position. (see pitch and roll angles)
From 4m10 to 4m22 no position change.
Now 100% roll left with craft heading 321, does not bring craft closer to home.
At 4m34 100 pitch forward on heading 333, so craft moves away from home.
At 5m42 distance out 951, at 6m19 distance out 951 meter.

Finally at 8m43 heading towards home, fully forward and flying home.
Distance from 1032 to 788 in Sport mode, but than you stopped with the forward input.
At 9m40 to 9m47 distance 788 - 791, so drifing little backwards.
Again fully forward, distance out reducing to 777.

Bad luck to loose connection, connected again in RTH mode but flightlog ends...

Guess in RTH mode craft did not have the speed to fly home, with 43% it should be possible with less wind.
If you had steer towards home at the end of the outbound leg, in sport mode MM was able to fly home against the wind.
You did loose so time but after that it flew back home, but loosing connection was the killer of your MM.

I count many (11x) disconnects in your flight, some short in time and 2 long enough to force a RTH.

cheers
JJB

@JJB Great investigation!

It really feels like DJI could greatly reduce the amount of blowaways if they had the mini RTH in S-mode. Or at the very least, do it only when necessary. It seems like an easy (and frankly, quite obvious) feature to implement, say if Mini trying to RTH in P-mode and forward speed is less than 10mph, engage S-mode.

Ice_2k Posted at 1-16 01:06
@JJB Great investigation!

It really feels like DJI could greatly reduce the amount of blowaways if they had the mini RTH in S-mode. Or at the very least, do it only when necessary. It seems like an easy (and frankly, quite obvious) feature to implement, say if Mini trying to RTH in P-mode and forward speed is less than 10mph, engage S-mode.

mayby, but there is a reason for this so imo DJI will not change this.

And ofcourse, if you know how to orientate your drone back home, no problem flying manually back home , in P-GPS or facing more wind in Sport mode.

If you fly a MM up or over the specs, in too much wind conditions and / or far distance out ;  the risk of loosing increases.

In my own checklist is a mental note about going for or continue a flight ; with errors wich you cannot value good enough ; stop flying or don`t go flying.  Loosing connection is also reason to fly home and try to understand the reason behind it (if any)

cheers
JJB

If you want an explanation, give us the link to the full Phantomhelp report rather than just the Verbose CSV

JJB* Posted at 1-16 01:23
mayby, but there is a reason for this so imo DJI will not change this.

What is the reason you're referring to?

Also, I think one of the main issues is that the manual doesn't state this. Beginners will clearly not expect their drone to battle the winds successfully when flying manually in S-mode but then have it blown away when initiating the automatic RTH. Furthermore, if you're caught off guard by the wind at some distance (as in this case here), you might not get the chance to fly it manually at all...

Ice_2k Posted at 1-16 01:06
@JJB Great investigation!

It really feels like DJI could greatly reduce the amount of blowaways if they had the mini RTH in S-mode. Or at the very least, do it only when necessary. It seems like an easy (and frankly, quite obvious) feature to implement, say if Mini trying to RTH in P-mode and forward speed is less than 10mph, engage S-mode.

I am unsure about this.
I would like that the speed limit is taken to the absoulute speed of the AC not not to the relative speed.
So that P-Mode and C-Mode dont limits the Speed against the Wind but the "GPS Speed"
But maybe its also good to have the "reserve Power" but then you have to know in Panik what to do (initiate Go-Home, abort after chaning Direction to Home, lower altitude as much as possible and go full forward)

Christian U Posted at 1-16 01:49
but then you have to know in Panik what to do (initiate Go-Home, abort after chaning Direction to Home, lower altitude as much as possible and go full forward)

initiating RTH doesn't really make sense if your goal is to go lower as RTH will most likely climb.

Ice_2k Posted at 1-16 01:06
@JJB Great investigation!

It really feels like DJI could greatly reduce the amount of blowaways if they had the mini RTH in S-mode. Or at the very least, do it only when necessary. It seems like an easy (and frankly, quite obvious) feature to implement, say if Mini trying to RTH in P-mode and forward speed is less than 10mph, engage S-mode.

I kind of agree here, if AC is not returning home fast enough due to winds, one could engage FULL THROTTLE RTH in S mode, or the APP could tell you RTH is struggleling due to winds like when it feels battery is too low to RTH and it triggers a landing... rather than just see the AC hoovering, drifting or not RTH at all.

Ice_2k Posted at 1-16 01:49
What is the reason you're referring to?

Also, I think one of the main issues is that the manual doesn't state this. Beginners will clearly not expect their drone to battle the winds successfully when flying manually in S-mode but then have it blown away when initiating the automatic RTH. Furthermore, if you're caught off guard by the wind at some distance (as in this case here), you might not get the chance to fly it manually at all...

For drones with OA its simple, if drone goes full speed the OA cannot function.
MM has no OA, bur fulll power for max speed gives less time to fly.
So imo RTH as its s know is OK.  

And within 10 seconds in flight you know what to do...

Fly back in
- RTH a) check if heading is towards home and b) check distance decreases
- Manually a) yaw craft towards home, b) pitch fwd, c) check distance decreases

Not happy, than sport mode, fully fwd and lower craft if possible.

Any drone fly up or over the limit will not always make it home....So know the capability of drone and stay well within craft or own limitations.

cheers
JJB

@JJB In theory, what you're saying makes sense. However, none of these arguments hold water if the drone is trying to RTH and is making very little forward gains or even getting blown back backwards. This is an information the drone has and engaging S-mode in that scenario would make absolute sense.
Consider that you're not always in a position to manually control the aircraft, especially if RTH was initiated because of connection loss. As I'm sure you know, there are quite a few reports of lost Minis on this forum  that happened because RTH caused the drone to climb to a higher altitude and then got blown away. I see absolutely no downside to initiating S-mode when the drone is unable to go home in P mode.

when air bender come to the beach.. they took all kind of flying things.. the last air bender...

Ice_2k Posted at 1-16 05:46
@JJB In theory, what you're saying makes sense. However, none of these arguments hold water if the drone is trying to RTH and is making very little forward gains or even getting blown back backwards. This is an information the drone has and engaging S-mode in that scenario would make absolute sense.
Consider that you're not always in a position to manually control the aircraft, especially if RTH was initiated because of connection loss. As I'm sure you know, there are quite a few reports of lost Minis on this forum  that happened because RTH caused the drone to climb to a higher altitude and then got blown away. I see absolutely no downside to initiating S-mode when the drone is unable to go home in P mode.

Nope, a MM never climb to a higher altitude on his own!
Or the user pulls UP to fly higher (yes, they do...)  or the RTH height setting is 400 feet or so...

And if users really understand how to flying a drone back home ect, 80% of the "fly-aways" could land at home. But i see so many files where users wait and wait....or steer the wrong way...or start with 40% battery   etc etc.

In the manual is a warning not to fly if wind > 8 m/s.

So do not complain if the RTH can`t handle more than that ; a) buy bigger craft or b)  take a glass of red wine and don`t go flying.

cheers
JJB

what do you mean? Mini will first climb to RTH height before coming back.
All the rest of the arguments honestly don't really make much sense.... of course, everything could be prevented if the user was more experienced, if the user paid better attention to wind conditions before flight, if, if, if. All of these are true. But none of them mean the Mini shouldn't do everything it can to come back home when the user screws up. Afterall, it's in everybody's best interest to not have an out-of-control drone get blown away and potentially enter a restricted fly area or land somewhere it's not supposed to. If it's physically possible for it to remain in control, it should.

In RTH mode once the mini turns towards the home point you can right stick forward and hit 29mph on the return leg

JJB* Posted at 1-16 00:26
Hi azntastic,

Had a look at your flight and i do not think it was the really wind....

Thank you so much for the investigation!

So - lessons learned: Reduce altitude, don't use RTH, throw it into sport and fly it manually back. Also that the reserve battery level that I had left (around 50%) wasn't enough. The thinking behind letting it fly back in RTH was that my remote kept disconnecting, so i was worried that it would disconnect midway to flying

Ice_2k Posted at 1-16 07:17
what do you mean? Mini will first climb to RTH height before coming back.
All the rest of the arguments honestly don't really make much sense.... of course, everything could be prevented if the user was more experienced, if the user paid better attention to wind conditions before flight, if, if, if. All of these are true. But none of them mean the Mini shouldn't do everything it can to come back home when the user screws up. Afterall, it's in everybody's best interest to not have an out-of-control drone get blown away and potentially enter a restricted fly area or land somewhere it's not supposed to. If it's physically possible for it to remain in control, it should.

uh, a oke understand the confusion.

MM never climb on its own, ofcourse yes if flying  lower than the RTH setting it will climb, but that is beacuse the user has made this setting.  
Apart from that a MM never climb at is own, i read your posting the wrong way, sorry.

And the other arguments, well just my opinion.

I ride a motorcycle, when fully loaded its limitet to 130 kmh, due to the luggage panniers.
If i ride faster, i will not complain about the stability   as i use my bike out of the specs.  

cheers
JJB

Labroides Posted at 1-16 01:23
If you want an explanation, give us the link to the full Phantomhelp report rather than just the Verbose CSV

Hey Labroides,

Got it - Log

Thanks!

azntastic Posted at 1-16 07:51
Thank you so much for the investigation!

So - lessons learned: Reduce altitude, don't use RTH, throw it into sport and fly it manually back. Also that the reserve battery level that I had left (around 50%) wasn't enough. The thinking behind letting it fly back in RTH was that my remote kept disconnecting, so i was worried that it would disconnect midway to flying

oke, don`t stop flying, its too much fun.

Just learn how to locate craft out in the air  when not i LOS (use of map and/or aircraft oreintation indicator ) and how to fly back manually.

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 1-16 06:31
Nope, a MM never climb to a higher altitude on his own!
Or the user pulls UP to fly higher (yes, they do...)  or the RTH height setting is 400 feet or so...

You're making a lot of arguments on why the pilot is responsible and that an experienced pilot should be able to fly the drone back. That's all true. It's also true though that if the drone tries to RTH, but is blown backwards, it does make zero sense for it to stay in P mode. Why would it refuse to fight the wind and watch effortlessly while being blown away further and further, till the remote loses connection and the pilot can't even know where the drone landed in the and, because it could be blown away for up to 30 minutes with a full battery? If MM has extra power available, it should of course use it to try to return home.

I guess there's some reasoning for DJI to impliment it that way. I just cannot see it.

Hi, thank you for reaching out and we're deeply sorry for the incident happened to your DJI Mavic Mini. I will highly recommend you to contact our support team to start up a ticket. We will have our professional team who would do their best to find out the reason for the problem and corresponding resolution will be provided. You may refer to the link below. Thank you for your understanding and support!

https://www.dji.com/support

ChRoM Posted at 1-16 09:31
You're making a lot of arguments on why the pilot is responsible and that an experienced pilot should be able to fly the drone back. That's all true. It's also true though that if the drone tries to RTH, but is blown backwards, it does make zero sense for it to stay in P mode. Why would it refuse to fight the wind and watch effortlessly while being blown away further and further, till the remote loses connection and the pilot can't even know where the drone landed in the and, because it could be blown away for up to 30 minutes with a full battery? If MM has extra power available, it should of course use it to try to return home.

I guess there's some reasoning for DJI to impliment it that way. I just cannot see it.

I do not know why DJI has limited this RTH as a P-GPS mode.
But as it is we have to deal with it.

Only when a drone is in RTH due to full loss of connection, you have a point.
But as it is flying out of specs, its a pilot`s 'error'.

Mayby DJI forgot this as with other drones with high speed its bad for the OA, a great safety selling point of DJI on their drones. MM has no OA so an idea for DJI is to give the user a option for Out of Control RTH ; or P-GPS like or Sport mode like.

cheers
JJB

azntastic Posted at 1-16 07:51
Hey Labroides,

Got it - Log

How about posting a link so we can see it too?

Labroides Posted at 1-16 12:55
How about posting a link so we can see it too?

My bad! For some reason the add link button on the forum consoles didn't work for me

https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/OAA7L3ISJL4WJT2J5IRB

Flying too high, the wind overpowered the Mini.

You were at 328ft while the drone drifted away and you switched momentarily to Sport.

You were probably too far away to lower the Mini below 100ft, but that could have helped a lot, like setting the RTH altitude to the absolute minimum altitude required to get the drone to the home point clear any obstacle in that particular flight. The best strategy I reckon should be lower the drone as much as possible in Sport and get it back, should the drone lose connection it can still climb to a safe altitude (auto-RTH) and try to get back, while granting you the possibility of a later intervention.

OK .. now that we can see what happened up there, it doesn't match your story or what some "helpful" members have been assuming at all.
There was some wind, but it was not enough to cause the loss of your drone and played only a minor part in your confusion.

I assume it hit some sort of wind, which kept pushing it further and further out to sea
For a start there's no hint of a "jetstream" or even a particularly strong wind.
If your drone was blown away by a strong wind, its track would have been a straight line heading off into the distance.
Instead, the track is a winding zig zag, caused not by the wind, but by your control inputs.

Haven't had any problems until today, when I was flying it over a beach when suddenly it stopped responding to my commands.
You gave lots of commands, flying the Mini all over the sky, zigging and zagging, rotating etc, etc and I can't find anywhere that the drone stopped responding to my commands.
Whenever you directed it to climb, it climbed, turn right, it turned right etc.
It looks like you were in control the whole time but had no idea what you were doing.
You could have easily brought the drone back like you started to do at around 9:35.
But instead, you zigged and zagged sending the drone all over the place.
You seemed to have no awareness of where the drone was or what it was doing.
I tried reducing altitude, but nothing worked.
Every time you gave control inputs, the drone responded accordingly.
You tried everything ... except pointing the drone toward home and flying it there.

This was a case of lack of awareness or how to fly the drone.
You were reckless and much more adventurous than was wise with your limited experience.

Ice_2k Posted at 1-16 01:53
initiating RTH doesn't really make sense if your goal is to go lower as RTH will most likely climb.

If you carefully read what i written RTH is only used to get the direction back to home then you make the rest manually. The first thing RTH is doing is turn the drone towards home. If you dont know where home is, this is the best option.

Christian U Posted at 1-17 15:49
If you carefully read what i written RTH is only used to get the direction back to home then you make the rest manually. The first thing RTH is doing is turn the drone towards home. If you dont know where home is, this is the best option.

If you still have a connection but have lost LOS or orientation, the easiest way to bring the MM home is to use the map. I don't see any real benefit in starting and stopping RTH just to point the AC toward you.

ChRoM Posted at 1-16 09:31
You're making a lot of arguments on why the pilot is responsible and that an experienced pilot should be able to fly the drone back. That's all true. It's also true though that if the drone tries to RTH, but is blown backwards, it does make zero sense for it to stay in P mode. Why would it refuse to fight the wind and watch effortlessly while being blown away further and further, till the remote loses connection and the pilot can't even know where the drone landed in the and, because it could be blown away for up to 30 minutes with a full battery? If MM has extra power available, it should of course use it to try to return home.

I guess there's some reasoning for DJI to impliment it that way. I just cannot see it.

Totally agree with you and @Ice_2k: if RTH is engaged and P-Mode is not enough to bring the AC home (simple math, as the AC knows its ground speed, distance from home and battery left), then it should switch to S-Mode. In the right conditions, this "Emergency RTH" mode could make a difference between saving and losing the AC.

JJB* Posted at 1-16 09:44
I do not know why DJI has limited this RTH as a P-GPS mode.
But as it is we have to deal with it.

Is it possible that DJI is limiting the damage that might occur if the drone is in an automatic (RTH) fly mode like that? It might just slam into something (or someone) on the way back, especially if the target RTH height is not sufficient.

GaryDoug Posted at 1-17 20:25
Is it possible that DJI is limiting the damage that might occur if the drone is in an automatic (RTH) fly mode like that? It might just slam into something (or someone) on the way back, especially if the target RTH height is not sufficient.

No, they are trying to keep it slow so that  it has the endurance to get back home. Also, if the aircraft has obstacle avoidance, a slower flight gives it more time to react to any obstacle. It is the same with all models of DJI aircraft.

Geebax Posted at 1-17 20:39
No, they are trying to keep it slow so that  it has the endurance to get back home. Also, if the aircraft has obstacle avoidance, a slower flight gives it more time to react to any obstacle. It is the same with all models of DJI aircraft.

No obstacle avoidance on a Mini. Besides, the original question was why doesn't it switch to S mode if it isn't making any progress going RTH.

GaryDoug Posted at 1-17 21:00
No obstacle avoidance on a Mini. Besides, the original question was why doesn't it switch to S mode if it isn't making any progress going RTH.

I realise the Mini has no OA, note I said "If the aircraft has obstacle avoidance", and I pointed out all DJI aircraft do the same routine during RTH. And it does not shift to sport mode because it is conserving battery power. It may know the speed across the ground but it does not know how strong the winds are, that's the job of the pilot to work out. It's main objective is to get home, not drive at speed.

Geebax Posted at 1-17 21:25
I realise the Mini has no OA, note I said "If the aircraft has obstacle avoidance", and I pointed out all DJI aircraft do the same routine during RTH. And it does not shift to sport mode because it is conserving battery power. It may know the speed across the ground but it does not know how strong the winds are, that's the job of the pilot to work out. It's main objective is to get home, not drive at speed.

If it is in a state of GPS standstill even at full speed in P mode, then it does know that something is wrong. I did not propose the modification of the fly mode. Another member did but I do agree that it would be very helpful. It can conserve battery power all it wants, but if it cannot make any progress to return to the home position, that becomes a moot point since the battery and drone may be very well lost and that is not helpful.

Geebax Posted at 1-17 21:25
I realise the Mini has no OA, note I said "If the aircraft has obstacle avoidance", and I pointed out all DJI aircraft do the same routine during RTH. And it does not shift to sport mode because it is conserving battery power. It may know the speed across the ground but it does not know how strong the winds are, that's the job of the pilot to work out. It's main objective is to get home, not drive at speed.

You make a good point about P-Mode being the most energy efficient, thus being the best choice to safely bring back the AC from a distance (especially in case of Low Battery RTH). But if the AC is facing head winds during RTH, flying in P-Mode (max 8m/s, 18mph) might not be enough to make progress, and the AC will eventually run out of battery. In these situations, it seems that switching to S-Mode (max 13m/s, 29mph) would give the AC a better chance to return home, or at least get closer.

GaryDoug Posted at 1-17 22:19
If it is in a state of GPS standstill even at full speed in P mode, then it does know that something is wrong. I did not propose the modification of the fly mode. Another member did but I do agree that it would be very helpful. It can conserve battery power all it wants, but if it cannot make any progress to return to the home position, that becomes a moot point since the battery and drone may be very well lost and that is not helpful.

I did not propose the modification of the fly mode. Another member did but I do agree that it would be very helpful.
It seems that the Mini has a has attracted a lot of new flyers that want everything done for them.
They don't want to have to think what direction the wind is blowing or how strong it is and think what that might mean for their return flight.
They don't want to think about planning to avoid being caught in strong headwind situations.
They don't want to have to actually fly their aircraft and get it out of a strong headwind situation that their lack of planning puts them in.
They just think that Sport Mode is the answer to powering through their potential self-inflicted situations and want to push a magic bring-it-home button to have it done for them.

The pilots of any flying machines have to take responsibility for what happens to their aircraft.
Learn what it can and can't do.
Learn how conditions might affect it and how to handle it in those conditions.
Do some thinking and plan your flying to suit the aircraft and conditions.

And stop whinging that you want DJI to make their cheap little Mini into a magic idiot proof drone for the unthinking flyer.

Christian U Posted at 1-17 15:49
If you carefully read what i written RTH is only used to get the direction back to home then you make the rest manually. The first thing RTH is doing is turn the drone towards home. If you dont know where home is, this is the best option.

I think the first thing the drone does is climb.

JJB you need to change your online name to "Aircraft Disaster Investigations" Thanks for your info provided, once again it show keep your height to the minimum you require to perform a task or take the perfect photo. I have set my maximum distance to 200 Meters. Once the battery gets to 50% I bring the MM closer to me in case the battery starts effecting the MM's performance.