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[Feature Request] Emergency RTH - Sport Mode
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120ccpm
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Some of us were discussing this topic on another thread, but I think it deserves to be brought to DJI's attention, as a possible improvement to the MM.
RTH is currently limited to the P-Mode speed of 8m/s (18mph), even if the AC is capable of flying at 13m/s (29mph) in S-Mode. Should the AC encounter head wind on its way back, it could end up in a situation where P-Mode is not enough, with the AC making little progress toward home and eventually running out of battery.

It would be nice if the AC could detect this, and switch to S-Mode. Such "Emergency RTH" would not be pilot-activated, but rather selected by the AC based on its knowledge of ground speed, distance from home and battery left.

And to anticipate some comments: pilots should always evaluate the wind conditions and fly within their limits and those of their equipment. I'm also not advocating the use of RTH as the default way to bring the AC home. I'm thinking primarily at Failsafe RTH, where the AC is completely on its own and it might encounter stronger winds going up to RTH height. In those - hopefully rare - circumstances, I'd like the AC to move quickly so I can regain connection, bring it down and manually take it home.
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Hello and good day 120ccpm.  Thank you for reaching out and for sharing these information and this feature request with us. I will forward this thread to the designated DJI department for further attention. Thank you and fly safe always.
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hallmark007
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Are you suggesting this can be done free or will it have a cost ? There are no instruments on Mavic mini or any dji drone for measuring wind .
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I'll start off.  while I like the idea, I'm going to have to mildly disagree on part of the method.  not keen on the idea of the drone switching mode automatically.  I truly believe something has to be done about the mm encountering headwinds during rth but I don't think an emergency rth mode is quite the answer.  as you mentioned, rth is often engaged by the flyer when they can't do the job themselves and when they press that button, they expect their drone to make it home using the best available means and resources the drone can produce.  if the drone were really smart, it would always do a better job than 85% of the pilots.  that's the expectation and we aren't there but we should be.  I understand that might come at some cost but imagine if the Mavic 2 you hit rth and you never saw your drone again.  you would be angry!  most flyers expect their drone to come home when you hit rth or die fighting their way back.  I am a decent flyer and I cringe at the thought of having to use rth; honestly because of all the unverified reports I've read here; I'd rather risk trying to bring it back myself because if I lose it, my own fault.  but I guess if I hit rth and the drone flew away that would be my fault too.
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The Saint Posted at 1-19 16:19
I'll start off.  while I like the idea, I'm going to have to mildly disagree on part of the method.  not keen on the idea of the drone switching mode automatically.  I truly believe something has to be done about the mm encountering headwinds during rth but I don't think an emergency rth mode is quite the answer.  as you mentioned, rth is often engaged by the flyer when they can't do the job themselves and when they press that button, they expect their drone to make it home using the best available means and resources the drone can produce.  if the drone were really smart, it would always do a better job than 85% of the pilots.  that's the expectation and we aren't there but we should be.  I understand that might come at some cost but imagine if the Mavic 2 you hit rth and you never saw your drone again.  you would be angry!  most flyers expect their drone to come home when you hit rth or die fighting their way back.  I am a decent flyer and I cringe at the thought of having to use rth; honestly because of all the unverified reports I've read here; I'd rather risk trying to bring it back myself because if I lose it, my own fault.  but I guess if I hit rth and the drone flew away that would be my fault too.

I called it "Emergency RTH" simply because it would not be the default RTH mode, but something that the AC activates only when needed. DJI must have had their reasons for selecting 18mph as the RTH speed (efficiency? safety?) so a two-stage approach seemed a better option: use the standard speed most of the times, switch to higher speed only when needed.
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hallmark007 Posted at 1-19 16:08
Are you suggesting this can be done free or will it have a cost ? There are no instruments on Mavic mini or any dji drone for measuring wind .

No need to measure airspeed, the AC can easily detect it's facing headwind by looking at its ground speed and tilt angle. DJI knows very well what's the normal tilt angle to achieve 18mph, so if the AC is at full tilt (20 degrees for P-Mode) and ground speed is low, it means there is headwind.
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120ccpm Posted at 1-19 16:52
No need to measure airspeed, the AC can easily detect it's facing headwind by looking at its ground speed and tilt angle. DJI knows very well what's the normal tilt angle to achieve 18mph, so if the AC is at full tilt (20 degrees for P-Mode) and ground speed is low, it means there is headwind.

So opt for full auto, let’s say craft Rth is 100m Rth kicks in at alt of 50m it now has to rise to 100m where wind will be stronger, against controller controlling altitude speed and orientation controller can in Rth mode get speed up to approx 24mph no wind . Or is your option only for loss of signal Rth .

I think the biggest problem this will cause is simply this, now instead of advising users to  fly their craft In winds of 8m/s so just bringing the threshold for mini that much higher, ending up with similar problems.

I think this will also set precedents for all other drones , so just pushing the threshold out all the time.
Mavic mini is a tiny drone weighing only 249g it can cope with winds of no stronger than 8m/s safely, but now you are basically asking dji to change that and give the option to use in higher winds because of a new failsafe.
Don’t be under any illusions users will always push the limits and if the likelihood of just as many drones being lost is just as great.

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120ccpm
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hallmark007 Posted at 1-19 17:24
So opt for full auto, let’s say craft Rth is 100m Rth kicks in at alt of 50m it now has to rise to 100m where wind will be stronger, against controller controlling altitude speed and orientation controller can in Rth mode get speed up to approx 24mph no wind . Or is your option only for loss of signal Rth .

I think the biggest problem this will cause is simply this, now instead of advising users to  fly their craft In winds of 8m/s so just bringing the threshold for mini that much higher, ending up with similar problems.

"Or is your option only for loss of signal Rth"
I fly helis and planes more than drones and for me flying is part of the fun, but if I lose connection there is nothing I can do other than crossing my fingers and hoping for the AC to come back in range on its own. So this request is mainly for Failsafe RTH (loss of signal), but of course I would not mind if DJI implements it also for the other two RTH variants (Smart and Low Battery).

"I think the biggest problem this will cause is simply this, now instead of advising users to  fly their craft In winds of 8m/s so just bringing the threshold for mini that much higher, ending up with similar problems."
DJI should continue to advise pilots to fly only in winds of 8m/s or lower. The reason why I called it "Emergency RTH" and suggested a two-stage approach is because it should be treated as an emergency feature, that kicks in only when strictly necessary.

"Don’t be under any illusions users will always push the limits and if the likelihood of just as many drones being lost is just as great".
Yes there will always be those who push the limits, and even those who will blame DJI if something happens. But giving the MM the ability to RTH in stronger winds will reduce the number of flyaways, simply because stronger winds are less likely.





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grahamjohnson10
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DJI need to introduce emergency RTH ASAP.

They also need to have audible alerts in the app, eg high wind warning.   
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120ccpm
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grahamjohnson10 Posted at 1-19 19:24
DJI need to introduce emergency RTH ASAP.

They also need to have audible alerts in the app, eg high wind warning.

I never saw it, but I think high wind warning is already there.
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120ccpm Posted at 1-19 19:28
I never saw it, but I think high wind warning is already there.

High wind warning is there, but no audible message with it.

If your looking at the drone and not the screen a warning is easily missed.   
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I agree with Graham. But this is off topic.

As for this propose feature, it would be simple enough to allow the "more experienced" operator to just turn it off if that is his/her fear. That capability is there and there is no logical reason against optional implementation.

Now I can understand if that would increase liability on the part of DJI, that they  might be hesitant to provide a higher speed of the A/C when it is in an automatic mode with no operator intervention. It's one thing to say the operator was responsible for any injury or damage to others, but another to say that the fault was with DJI.
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120ccpm Posted at 1-19 16:52
No need to measure airspeed, the AC can easily detect it's facing headwind by looking at its ground speed and tilt angle. DJI knows very well what's the normal tilt angle to achieve 18mph, so if the AC is at full tilt (20 degrees for P-Mode) and ground speed is low, it means there is headwind.

I would think it is even simpler. In RTH mode, the microcontroller should know that it is driving the AC with the most force possible in that standard mode and if there is no real progress via the GPS position, then the force is inadequate.
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I agree the mm should have the same options or as close as possible to the Mavic 2 drones.  there is no emergency rth in the m2 as far as I am aware.  again, I don't believe in emergency rth save me or whatever you want to call it but I do believe the problem should be fixed, whatever that is.
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GaryDoug Posted at 1-19 20:09
I would think it is even simpler. In RTH mode, the microcontroller should know that it is driving the AC with the most force possible in that standard mode and if there is no real progress via the GPS position, then the force is inadequate.

You're saying the same thing: on a quadcopter, the "force" that drives the AC forward is a result of the tilt angle. And ground speed is calculated via GPS position.
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The Saint Posted at 1-19 20:12
I agree the mm should have the same options or as close as possible to the Mavic 2 drones.  there is no emergency rth in the m2 as far as I am aware.  again, I don't believe in emergency rth save me or whatever you want to call it but I do believe the problem should be fixed, whatever that is.

To be fair, with the M2 the problem is not that clear cut because of the OA sensors. Tilting the AC all the way to fly faster would disable the sensors, which is clearly not ideal. I'm pretty sure that's actually the exact reason why the Mini behaves in the same manner. DJI just used the same RTH logic they already had for other drones. For the Mini however, because of the lack of sensors, there is no downside to tilting it even more when not making decent progress coming home. You're not losing any sensor capability and you're not flying unnecessarily fast. If I was implementing this, I think the correct way is not to have separate P/S modes for RTH, as such modes really make no sense for automated flying. They are basically only there to define what "full stick tilt" means when the user is flying. When a computer is flying, the extra "smoothness" we get from P/C mode is not needed, that's just useful for our imprecise fingers. The RTH should simply have a predefined speed the Mini wants to travel at (say the 18mph max speed of P mode) and "step on the throttle" as much as it needs to in order to reach that speed. If flying into a 3mph wind, it would just fly at 21mph airspeed. And again, because this seems to be coming up over and over again. The Mini doesn't need to measure wind speed (although it can, the information is readily available from its tilt angle and its ground speed but let's say for the sake of the argument that it can't do that). It just needs to try and obtain a certain ground speed.
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120ccpm Posted at 1-19 19:18
"Or is your option only for loss of signal Rth"
I fly helis and planes more than drones and for me flying is part of the fun, but if I lose connection there is nothing I can do other than crossing my fingers and hoping for the AC to come back in range on its own. So this request is mainly for Failsafe RTH (loss of signal), but of course I would not mind if DJI implements it also for the other two RTH variants (Smart and Low Battery).

.” But giving the MM the ability to RTH in stronger winds will reduce the number of flyaways, simply because stronger winds are less likely.”


I don’t see how this will reduce the number of fly always, if users think they can fly home in stronger winds then you will simply get more risking this and you will still have those who don’t bother to know how strong the wind is flying in all kinds of winds.

There is no other dji drone that flies in sport mode on Rth, in fact Mavic pro flys Rth at 22mph and it’s now over 3 years old and no change.
This very same argument took place with spark and no change, we seen a change for drones that have rear OA where Rear OA is turned off in favor of extra pitch to gain more speed, but again not sport, my guess that dji feel it’s not safe for craft to fly automatically in sport mode, and if safety is the issue then this will not happen.

The truth about this is pretty much the same all the time we see new releases, drones are not as easy to fly starting out it takes time and for some they think this is out of the box flying and so we see the usual new flyers lose their drones and it doesn’t matter one iota this will never change.

If you compare mini to spark to Mavic air and the capabilities of these drones then the speed restrictions on Mavic mini are about right.
If you keep pushing the boundaries out for users, then they will respond and continue to push their boundaries out further that’s human nature, so as that happens you will likely see as many or more drones lost to the wind.

You may have some chance of increasing speed slightly , but I don’t believe they will increase it to sport values.
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People, RTH speed is simply a parameter set in the firmware.  Most DJI models RTH at 22 mph.  The Mini is set to RTH at 17.9 mph.

RTH speed is like selecting your RTH altitude.  There isn't some bit of code deciding, "I'm set to climb to 500' before RTH but I'm getting blown away so I'm only going up 250'."

While DJI could decide to increase the Mini's RTH speed to 22 mph to match other models, there is not going to be some sort of progress-sensing "I was too dumb to pay attention to the wind & fly within the limitations of the aircraft" algorithm!   Understand the limits.  Accept the risk & responsibility if you ignore them.

If you fly an Inspire 2 downwind in a 30 mph wind until RC contact is lost, it's not coming back!  It's that simple.  The Inspire 2 costs $6000-8000.  The Mini costs $400.  

Instead of crying for nanny features that almost certainly won't be implemented, focus on things that can prevent losses:

1 - Pay attention to the wind conditions before flying.
2 - If the winds are approaching 8 m/s do not fly downwind.
3 - If you choose to fly in windy conditions FLY INTO THE WIND or PERPENDICULAR TO THE WIND so RTH has a shot to get home.
4 - If you are an inexperienced pilot, DO NOT FLY IN WINDS OF 8 M/S OR MORE.

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InspektorGadjet
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I agree that something needs to be done, when AC is not making it back fast enough or worse, not at all or even blowing away...
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The best ideas are simple ones: you present a simple solution to reducing fly aways, a simple way for drone software to determine when automated emergency should be employed and i imagine it must be a pretty simple piece of progrmming required to achieve this: Great idea
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jonny007
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Quite very simple : RTH ALWAYS in S mode would be surely no disadvantage. Or a setting option to choose the RTH speed S or P.
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In fact, I think it would be great to be able to select in which mode (S or P) we want the RTH to be and I think, almost the easiest to add in the MM firmware.
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InspektorGadjet Posted at 1-20 04:04
I agree that something needs to be done, when AC is not making it back fast enough or worse, not at all or even blowing away...

Especially when power or ability is already present in the plane...
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virtual Posted at 1-20 09:59
Especially when power or ability is already present in the plane...

What do you mean by power or ability? The fact that the mini is capable of flying faster?
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InspektorGadjet Posted at 1-20 10:09
What do you mean by power or ability? The fact that the mini is capable of flying faster?

Yes, I mean that the plane is already able to fly faster (just to fight stronger wind when RTH) and it can be done probably by small sw. update (as You said - if the return speed is slow or negative -> use S-mode as soon as the RTH height is reached, than qo back to P-mode 20m away from HP)...it will not stop fly-aways but can help IMPOV.
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First of all: sorry for my English

I saw an interesting video:

DJI Mavic Mini - Wind Warning - I almost lost it at the Snake River!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF_Z0SW61Sg

Please see the video starting at 20:30 minutes. He was in automatic RTH in P-Mode because of lost connection, then he decides to stop RTH because of the windy conditions. He gets manually in S-Mode to fly it back. He gets manually in RTH again and the Mavic Mini was in S-Mode in RTH.
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virtual Posted at 1-20 09:59
Especially when power or ability is already present in the plane...

All DJI birds can fly faster than their RTH speed.  Some are capable of flying at twice their RTH speed.  Most RTH at 22 mph.
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Newbie Germany Posted at 1-20 10:45
First of all: sorry for my English

I saw an interesting video:

Very good example and nice to see if you are in S mode, RTH will happen in S mode too.
Also crazy to see how much difference dropping only a few meters has, and flying conscious, knowing you may end up having to go and get it, better land somewhere safe with a bit of battery juice.
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So for the future, when the MM is in RTH automatic (P-Mode) and out of sight and there are windy conditions, stop RTH, set S-Mode manually and again manually get in RTH and the Mini is RTH S-Mode?
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I'm surprised about that video because, normally, in RTH mode, people should not be able to move the yam of the drone
Manual says :
"During RTH, the aircraft’s speed, altitude, and the orientation can be controlled using the remote controller or DJI Fly if the remote controller signal is normal, but the direction of flight cannot be controlled."

On that video, the guy moves the yaw in RTH mode. It is not the MM itself because it should fly strait from it's location to it's homepoint.
What do you guys think about it ?
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I suppose we should throw into the mix here, your told in the manual on high win warning to land in a safe location, I wonder would this be a contradiction of djis if they were to adapt craft to fly in sport mode in high wind .
I would imagine that loss of aircraft due to high wind would void warranty, so it would seem strange dji would encourage in any way flying in high wind .

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I just wish it would go into S mode during RTH. I really can't see any disadvantages to it.
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I think, what I learned of this video, when you are in RTH automatically and you want to get in S-Mode, stop RTH, go manually in S-Mode and again set RTH manually, to get the S-Mode in RTH.
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Newbie Germany Posted at 1-20 11:23
So for the future, when the MM is in RTH automatic (P-Mode) and out of sight and there are windy conditions, stop RTH, set S-Mode manually and again manually get in RTH and the Mini is RTH S-Mode?

Autonomous RTH speed for the Mini is 17.9 mph regardless of mode.  If you have RC contact you can apply forward stick to increase RTH speed.
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Francoisd Posted at 1-20 11:34
I'm surprised about that video because, normally, in RTH mode, people should not be able to move the yam of the drone
Manual says :
"During RTH, the aircraft’s speed, altitude, and the orientation can be controlled using the remote controller or DJI Fly if the remote controller signal is normal, but the direction of flight cannot be controlled."

The bird will fly straight home during RTH but you are free to adjust the altitude, yaw, vertical camera position, as well as increase speed.  No matter which way the bird is facing it will still fly directly home during RTH.
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Newbie Germany Posted at 1-20 12:03
I think, what I learned of this video, when you are in RTH automatically and you want to get in S-Mode, stop RTH, go manually in S-Mode and again set RTH manually, to get the S-Mode in RTH.

Doing that will NOT alter the automatic RTH speed which remains 17.9 mph.  If you want to increase RTH speed apply & maintain forward stick.
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Francoisd Posted at 1-20 11:34
I'm surprised about that video because, normally, in RTH mode, people should not be able to move the yam of the drone
Manual says :
"During RTH, the aircraft’s speed, altitude, and the orientation can be controlled using the remote controller or DJI Fly if the remote controller signal is normal, but the direction of flight cannot be controlled."

If you YAW your craft in RTH mode, you do change the heading of the drone, but it will follow the direct line to HP.  Flying like a crab...

In the vid thuis guy says that he will yaw to get dry feet for his craft, yawing he did but indeed the craft did not move off the direct line ; so no dry feet that time. After CX RTH he manually flew to get dry feet.
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Dirty Bird Posted at 1-20 03:47
People, RTH speed is simply a parameter set in the firmware.  Most DJI models RTH at 22 mph.  The Mini is set to RTH at 17.9 mph.

RTH speed is like selecting your RTH altitude.  There isn't some bit of code deciding, "I'm set to climb to 500' before RTH but I'm getting blown away so I'm only going up 250'."

"People, RTH speed is simply a parameter set in the firmware.  Most DJI models RTH at 22 mph.  The Mini is set to RTH at 17.9 mph."
I would not be so sure about that, actually. It's more likely that the parameter in the firmware is the max tilt angle, not an actual (ground) speed. Otherwise, ACs would slow down to 22mph if flying downwind. The speed that DJI gives you is what you should expect if there is no wind, at sea level.




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Dean01 Posted at 1-20 04:19
The best ideas are simple ones: you present a simple solution to reducing fly aways, a simple way for drone software to determine when automated emergency should be employed and i imagine it must be a pretty simple piece of progrmming required to achieve this: Great idea

Thank you, appreciate the comment.
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Ice_2k Posted at 1-20 00:21
To be fair, with the M2 the problem is not that clear cut because of the OA sensors. Tilting the AC all the way to fly faster would disable the sensors, which is clearly not ideal. I'm pretty sure that's actually the exact reason why the Mini behaves in the same manner. DJI just used the same RTH logic they already had for other drones. For the Mini however, because of the lack of sensors, there is no downside to tilting it even more when not making decent progress coming home. You're not losing any sensor capability and you're not flying unnecessarily fast. If I was implementing this, I think the correct way is not to have separate P/S modes for RTH, as such modes really make no sense for automated flying. They are basically only there to define what "full stick tilt" means when the user is flying. When a computer is flying, the extra "smoothness" we get from P/C mode is not needed, that's just useful for our imprecise fingers. The RTH should simply have a predefined speed the Mini wants to travel at (say the 18mph max speed of P mode) and "step on the throttle" as much as it needs to in order to reach that speed. If flying into a 3mph wind, it would just fly at 21mph airspeed. And again, because this seems to be coming up over and over again. The Mini doesn't need to measure wind speed (although it can, the information is readily available from its tilt angle and its ground speed but let's say for the sake of the argument that it can't do that). It just needs to try and obtain a certain ground speed.

Simply increasing the speed might be possible, but I won't be surprised if there is actually more behind the different modes than just the max tilt angle. There might be a bunch of other parameters that get tweaked to account for the increased speed (gain and stuff like that), and that's why it might be easier for them to switch mode than just increase tilt.
Moreover, I like the two-stage approach for marketing reasons, not encourage people to ignore windy conditions, but sending the message that the AC is in "emergency" mode, flying beyond its standard capabilities.  Just an opinion, of course...

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