Labroides Posted at 2-1 04:38
Well, many others have the same question, so in your mind were are all wearing blindfolds  ;-)
Actually a couple of others have indicated that they believe the height was much higher than the terrain but you've failed to notice that.

The only thing that concludes is that Google isn't a reliable source regarding altitudes ... it only gives you a hint for what it's worth ...

From my Google Earth

slup Posted at 2-1 04:45
Yeah ... every crash analyze start up with a stack of possible scenarios (usually several as we weren't there when it happened). Then it's time to seek support from the logs to circle in the most possible cause as it's there the facts are stored ... without looking at those everything just remains speculative ... looking at graphs generated directly from the logs are one way to to see the patterns, others may instead prefer to look at the values directly in a csv reader. In the end of every crash investigation some lose ends will remain ... but coming that far you usually can point out the most probable cause.

It's always important to be open minded & not lock in to one scenario to early ...

“First we can see that the GPS module restarts (likely here the wrong position is created), then alot of gimbal motor errors occurs usually occurring when something prohibit the free movement of the gimbal . And in the end we see that the motors no longer can rotate.“


In almost all impact cases we read first warning, motor obstructed, not motor errors, also I certainly didn’t say craft lost a prop , what I said was craft could very easily have lost half a prop, so this should also be taken into consideration, it seems you completely differ now from what jjb thinks, he’s convinced Mavic mini hit a rock flying at 28kph, so you can see how ridiculous this is, I would say I have never heard of or seen a drone fly into a tree at 28kph and bounce back fly sideways for almost 200ft while descending fast .

And the most telling thing about this is simple heights do not match in anyway.

slup Posted at 2-1 05:14
The only thing that concludes is that Google isn't a reliable source regarding altitudes ... it only gives you a hint for what it's worth ...

From my Google Earth

Why is yours showing a very different height from what I've illustrated above?

You need to check that height around the incident location.
It's nowhere close to the height you are showing.

JJB* Posted at 2-1 04:56
Thanks,

Now you are explaining!  

Now you are explaining!  
No .. I've been explaining over and over for a couple of days.

I hope i can understand it...hahaha
If you just write without making silly remarks i might start to like you.
Someone that continues to act as dumb as you have deserves to be addressed bluntly.

Think i see now what is wrong, your point is bit to the S. so elevation is along that clif to lower point.
As said by others, that area there is 11 meters higher than HP. but just before that ofcourse lower.
I guess it didn't occur to you to try moving your cursor around that point and see if you find anything more than a few metres different.

As data in the log is little delayed written, drone can be just a little more to HP.
See if i can make some calculations on latlong versus time using fwd speed.
Looks like there's no hope of an apology then.
I cannot believe how mind-numbingly dumb you are actnig.
You are beyond help.

I just hope a few others can see for themselves what I've been explaining and work out for themselves what a fraud you are.

slup Posted at 2-1 05:14
The only thing that concludes is that Google isn't a reliable source regarding altitudes ... it only gives you a hint for what it's worth ...

From my Google Earth

Once again a warm hello to everyone:

Since I was initially only interested in where the "Find My Drone" function took the displayed position from, I didn't tell too much about the geographic situation.

I am very sorry now, but everyone has been able to get an idea of ​​it through Google Earth.

So now here are a few pictures that were saved (in low resolution) in the smartphone, taken by the MM, of course ...

Picture 1_:
At the starting point at a height of 30m, gimbal horizontal.

Picture 2_:
Still at the starting point, gimbal lowered a few degrees (???) to be able to take beautiful videos and pictures ...

Picture 3_:
Still at the starting point, MM "a little" to the right. Here you can see the later crash site ...
(If I had placed the gimbal horizontally again, I should have seen that these trees are slightly above the horizontal line - but unfortunately I have not!)

Picture 4_:
For example, at the point where there were difficulties with the RC and I therefore wanted to fly back "normally", which was no longer possible, since the radio connection was broken shortly afterwards .....

frankymusik Posted at 2-1 06:04
Once again a warm hello to everyone:

Since I was initially only interested in where the "Find My Drone" function took the displayed position from, I didn't tell too much about the geographic situation.

This one could have been "great" too ...

frankymusik Posted at 2-1 06:04
Once again a warm hello to everyone:

Since I was initially only interested in where the "Find My Drone" function took the displayed position from, I didn't tell too much about the geographic situation.

Beautiful place, can understand why you want to fly there

Welcome over to MavicPilots , that forum is moderated & a bit calmer, people calling others names usually don't last long.

slup Posted at 2-1 06:23
Beautiful place, can understand why you want to fly there

Welcome over to MavicPilots , that forum is moderated & a bit calmer, people calling others names usually don't last long.

@slup

... my hope was that in this "official" DJI forum I could meet software developers from DJI, since the DJI support (Germany) showed no particular interest, to explain the cause of the "strange" position of the function "Find My Drone".

I had the impression that people would assume that I had imagined these numbers myself ...

When you commented so specifically on my inquiries, I thought that one of the developers had finally got involved. "Thank God!" I thought...

As I said, you have reduced my worries, now I am finally feeling better. Thank you again!!!
Frank

frankymusik Posted at 2-1 06:04
Once again a warm hello to everyone:

Since I was initially only interested in where the "Find My Drone" function took the displayed position from, I didn't tell too much about the geographic situation.

Not being funny here, but why wait with the images ? Also it looks pretty clear in #1 that you are above the “crash” point you point out and considering you continue to climb a further 100 + in altitude, it doesn’t add up that without seriously descending you actually crashed.
You also mention in earlier post your wife was watching mini through binoculars, was she or did she miss something .

Just as in the pictures you posted above, I know the terrain and in that case I imagined it, too. ONLY that counts ... the horizontal view to the goal. The terrain is much too rugged for an accurate determination of the altitude with goggle maps altitude information. Above all because at 30 meters RTH it really seems to be very scarce, as the red line shows and your pic #3

hallmark007 Posted at 2-1 06:55
Not being funny here, but why wait with the images ? Also it looks pretty clear in #1 that you are above the “crash” point you point out and considering you continue to climb a further 100 + in altitude, it doesn’t add up that without seriously descending you actually crashed.
You also mention in earlier post your wife was watching mini through binoculars, was she or did she miss something .

@hallmark007

When the MM decided to return automatically, it practically disappeared from view ...  The view was blocked by the trees on the horizon.

I had mentioned that I actually can't watch the RC and the MM at the same time. Whenever you look for the MM with your eyes, a lot of valuable time goes by.

For this reason, my wife has binoculars with her if the flight should actually go further away ...


Frank

jonny007 Posted at 2-1 07:01
Just as in the pictures you posted above, I know the terrain and in that case I imagined it, too. ONLY that counts ... the horizontal view to the goal. The terrain is much too rugged for an accurate determination of the altitude with goggle maps altitude information. Above all because at 30 meters RTH it really seems to be very scarce, as the red line shows and your pic #3

[view_image]

@jonny007

... that's why I said from the start that it was solely my fault to fly so low.

But why the "Find My Drone" function had so misled us was a mystery to me ...

Perhaps the drone could have been found if one had been directed nearby. After all, I had the "Care Refresh" insurance and would have received a replacement at a reasonable price ...

Frank

frankymusik Posted at 2-1 07:04
@hallmark007

When the MM decided to return automatically, it practically disappeared from view ...  The view was blocked by the trees on the horizon.

I don’t think above picture shows anything, in fact it probably shows that it would have been impossible to get craft off the ground.
My bad I presumed wife was your VLOS but obviously casual arrangement.

While you keep saying find my drone is somehow not operating correctly, I would say this could be down to your craft, I have seen a couple of find my drone working pretty well around here.
With regards to engineer or software engineer coming on board here, take into account Chinese New Year and more importantly that dji have closed down at least until 10th February for what is a much more serious problem than glitches in our drones.

I’m certain if you contact dji Mindy who is chief moderator and always in direct contact with engineers she may be able to help you .

I also think this was not a direct crash, but some malfunction, I guess we all won’t fully agree on this but will have learned a lot on the journey .

Labroides Posted at 2-1 05:44
Now you are explaining!  
No .. I've been explaining over and over for a couple of days.

Hi Labroides,

Normal people who read this thread will feel pity for you.
Your justifiyng of being blunt to others is so simple, its a basic reaction of people who are not so sure about themselves.And this only beacuse you cannot convince me and others with your height story. See the pictures off franky and see that is is not possible to fly there so much higher than the picture taken at HP at 30 meters above HP. As franky said, top of the tree there are higher than the picture taken, drone flew whole flight 32 higher than HP.
So i think your height assesment is not correct.
And if i am wrong, a discussion between educated adults don`t need to end with making others look like being 'stupid' etc.
Guess i am used to other more professional discussions.

An apology from me?  ofcourse if am wrong. But mayby you should make an apology to this forum being so bluntly to me and others.

So i think i will ignore you in the future, but trying to help others if i can.
I can even imagine that others will ignore you too, as the majority of people on this forum don`t like blunt people like you.

I did not had a Pantom3 many years ago, but bigger flyable 'toys' for my work.
But i had a bicycle in 1985, so ofcourse i know all about the new electronic gear shifting devices.
Nah, that bull... ofcourse ; having things doesn`t mean automatically you have all the knowledge about things....education does.

Many happy landings,
cheers
JJB

I have a quick question as a neophyte, in PH when we move the cursor we notice that the altitude of 30 meters at the start does not change all along the trajectory until impact, as if the terrain had no elevation, there should have been altitude variations in negative. How do you explain that ? sorry for the bad traduction google is not perfect.

I believe you have one side here not saying anything about this because it doesn’t suit their reading of the situation, I think the OP in this situation with his drip feed of excuses helped nothing here, his out and out acceptance of the first charts he seen which were frankly useless meant that this would only be going one way, I’m surprised that someone would be so dismissive of some while accepting what suited his story and to almost while talking out the side of his mouth dismiss what others were saying.
And although those with the charts offered scant chance of him retrieving his drone, he seemed to laud them in favour of blaming dji .

Labroides Posted at 1-30 06:06
I don't think there's any problem with the software.
The data looks very clean with nothing strange about it.

How can a battery last from 3:58.9 - 4:51.3? That's close to an hour.

BobB Posted at 2-1 10:56
How can a battery last from 3:58.9 - 4:51.3? That's close to an hour.

3m 58.9 seconds , maybe in the next Mavic 3 ;+)::::::::

big lou Posted at 2-1 09:59
I have a quick question as a neophyte, in PH when we move the cursor we notice that the altitude of 30 meters at the start does not change all along the trajectory until impact, as if the terrain had no elevation, there should have been altitude variations in negative. How do you explain that ? sorry for the bad traduction google is not perfect.

I hope I understand the question correctly:

Since the height is not measured absolutely (i.e. not from the surface of the earth to the MM), but relative (the height of the starting point gets the value 0m), it is correct that the MM always remains at the same height if you only move it forward / backwards / sideways or rotates about its vertical axis!

At the starting point, I let them climb 30m and then didn't change anything.
The height for so-called "automatic return" (RTH) was also set to this 30m for me ...

Frank

hallmark007 Posted at 2-1 10:15
I believe you have one side here not saying anything about this because it doesn’t suit their reading of the situation, I think the OP in this situation with his drip feed of excuses helped nothing here, his out and out acceptance of the first charts he seen which were frankly useless meant that this would only be going one way, I’m surprised that someone would be so dismissive of some while accepting what suited his story and to almost while talking out the side of his mouth dismiss what others were saying.
And although those with the charts offered scant chance of him retrieving his drone, he seemed to laud them in favour of blaming dji .

@hallmark007

Sorry, I do not understand the content of this statement ...     

The Google translator probably can't help me understand the deeper meaning.


Frank

frankymusik Posted at 2-1 11:17
@hallmark007

Sorry, I do not understand the content of this statement ...     

It’s in English but try google translation, my first language Is Gaelic, not sure if there’s translation for it on google .

frankymusik Posted at 2-1 11:12
I hope I understand the question correctly:

Since the height is not measured absolutely (i.e. not from the surface of the earth to the MM), but relative (the height of the starting point gets the value 0m), it is correct that the MM always remains at the same height if you only move it forward / backwards / sideways or rotates about its vertical axis!

Once your drone moves it will reference its height to that of ATO at take off, so if it flys over a ravine below homepoint it should register a minus figure , so 30m over homepoint fly forward 10m over the ravine with ground level 200m below you craft should register - 230m and so will change this as it moves on its journey, labroids tried to emphasize this on so many occasions but was continually shot down by all who were insisting on using ASL and AGL which were not needed to review this log .

absolutely agree my error forget my question

frankymusik Posted at 2-1 03:44
@Christian U

... do not always repeat the same false statement, please!

I agree Frank.
DJI needs to take a look at the algorithm that they use to determine the Find My Drone location. It appears that the filter (if there is any) used to cull out bogus GPS data needs to be tightened up if it exists or implemented if it doesn't exist.
Bob.

BobB Posted at 2-1 10:56
How can a battery last from 3:58.9 - 4:51.3? That's close to an hour.

@BobB

... are you kidding?

If not: these numbers are minutes: seconds: hundredths of a second

Sorry if I was naughty ...

Frank

BobWinNV Posted at 2-1 12:04
I agree Frank.
DJI needs to take a look at the algorithm that they use to determine the Find My Drone location. It appears that the filter (if there is any) used to cull out bogus GPS data needs to be tightened up if it exists or implemented if it doesn't exist.
Bob.

@BobWinNV

Thank you very much. That's how I see it ...

Frank

hallmark007 Posted at 2-1 10:58
3m 58.9 seconds , maybe in the next Mavic 3 ;+)::::::::

My old age i guess. I thought we were talking afternoon hours... hehe
Hopefully OP will fly VLOS if they have a next time....lots of rookies flying these days.

big lou Posted at 2-1 11:57
absolutely agree my error forget my question

Your question was very relative and the crux of much that has gone on here, and Franky is completely 100% wrong with what he has said on this subject of how height is measured and recorded .

Dirty Bird Posted at 2-1 12:02
A bit off-topic but a recent experience I had with German rules...

I was selling a Graflex lightsaber on ebay & was contacted by a fellow from Germany who wanted to purchase the item.  We worked out shipping & off it went.  A few days later the guy contacts me & explains German customs won't release the saber because it is missing an electrical certification label.

And its getting even more worse. In 2020 we  get European Drone rights, that makes it way more complicated.
On the other way i must say ive seen a lot of people flying without using there Heads.
(Frank damit mein ich nicht dich, ich muss sagen bei dem Ausblick kann ich schon verstehen das du etwas riskiert hast, und man darf auch nicht vergessen das wir hier von 250g reden und nicht 12Kg)

Christian U Posted at 2-1 13:08
And its getting even more worse. In 2020 we  get European Drone rights, that makes it way more complicated.
On the other way i must say ive seen a lot of people flying without using there Heads.
(Frank damit mein ich nicht dich, ich muss sagen bei dem Ausblick kann ich schon verstehen das du etwas riskiert hast, und man darf auch nicht vergessen das wir hier von 250g reden und nicht 12Kg)

Danke für die tröstenden Worte.

frankymusik Posted at 2-1 07:11
@jonny007

... that's why I said from the start that it was solely my fault to fly so low.

On / Off topic of flying low - but trying to be helpful for future flying.  Watch out when flying low for trees suddenly blocking transmissions between RC and Drone.  

Also be aware, you may have no problems flying from takeoff location Alpha to point of interest Beta with some trees in between during winter.  Only to have problems making same flight during summer after trees have their leaves.  

frankymusik Posted at 1-30 08:17
The analysis of the flight data is really very impressive!
All errors and problems are clearly shown.

It looks like you removed the log from onedrive, please could you PM me a link to it.

grahamjohnson10 Posted at 2-1 13:40
It looks like you removed the log from onedrive, please could you PM me a link to it.

... it should have arrived at you.

Frank

frankymusik Posted at 2-1 11:12
I hope I understand the question correctly:

Since the height is not measured absolutely (i.e. not from the surface of the earth to the MM), but relative (the height of the starting point gets the value 0m), it is correct that the MM always remains at the same height if you only move it forward / backwards / sideways or rotates about its vertical axis!

Hi Franky,

Correct!  Lets start a flight :

Power up your drone (baro height is sensed and set to zero at this point, call it ATO height)
Take off at home point and climb 30 meters.  (Fly App indicate +30m)
Fly only fwd/aft/left /right ; your MM stays at same height all the way and + 30 is always seen in the FlyApp
If you fly over a lower ground part, fly height remains the same (+30 in the app)
Never is the height adjusted to the variations in height between craft and ground below!
No ressetting of any values in your flightlog or DAT file.

cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 2-2 02:51
Hi Franky,

Correct!  Lets start a flight :

Ok so it’s different for the fly app , not sure why, but in go4 we always see a minus, my bad, but I didn’t expect a snake like you to mention this , you have a cheek calling others rude, while you chicken away in the high grass .

hallmark007 Posted at 2-2 03:01
Ok so it’s different for the fly app , not sure why, but in go4 we always see a minus, my bad, but I didn’t expect a snake like you to mention this , you have a cheek calling others rude, while you chicken away in the high grass .

Well...   its the same for the go 4 app.

You wrote in #142
...so 30m over homepoint fly forward 10m over the ravine with ground level 200m below you craft should register - 230m and so...
Never Never is the height changed in logs or dat files when craft flying over a lower part, ofcourse it goes into minus values flying below HP height,but never is the measured height in logs reset etc in that situation.
So take off, 30meters climb and only use fwd and yaw.....always +30 in both apps, even flying accross the grand canyon in the USA.

Read the dat log of franky`s flight and show where it is changed like you said in post 142.

What i have written in #134 counts for you as well.

Few people here on this forum when they cannot 'win' with arguments they start to use foul words.

Explain Hallmark ; why do you do this ? Why calling me a SNAKE?  no proper arguments for me?


cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 2-2 03:14
Well...   its the same for the go 4 app.

Never Never is the height changed in logs or dat files when craft flying over a lower part, ofcourse it goes into minus values flying below HP height,but never is the measured height in logs reset etc in that situation.

I’ll tell why, first I never mentioned what was recorded in the logs, secondly just over two weeks ago I commented on a thread to explain how a craft could pick up interference on the ground that could later in the flight affect how craft reacts, flight was just over one minute long, on the same thread you posted to me that you didn’t believe this could happen, but low and behold your on a thread a couple of days ago almost verbatim saying that interference on the ground was as a direct cause of craft going rogue well into flight, you say when you wrong you apologize this is completely wrong and many times you have been proven completely wrong where you refused to back down and apologize .

You are continually condescending to others who don’t agree with you, to the point that they have no choice but to react.

Posting enough graphs to wallpaper a small house doesn’t mean you know everything if you can’t interpret what is going on in those logs it’s fruitless and arguing that you do is even more fruitless, I also along with member gimpy pulled you up on a log that you interpreted completely wrong and for almost two days you argued you were right but you were completely wrong, but no apology came, so don’t be all high and mighty because truth is you don’t or won’t admit your wrong.

You put that post in this morning, but instead of posting to me you did your usual snake in grass thing , you need to grow a pair and instead of running crying to others accept the reasons why people are annoyed.

One thing I will say to you, as long as I’ve been around here I have never once seen any of your log readings used to help anyone gain a warranty or change a decision by dji.
But I can say that I have seen Labroids on several occasions help others to gain warranty and also to get dji to change their decision on other cases, and that’s because he can interpret logs he doesn’t need to post 10 charts that 95% of people don’t understand he can interpret a log that both beginner and experienced pilots can understand.

So I won’t be referring to post 134, but I still believe you to be a snake .

hallmark007 Posted at 2-2 03:41
I’ll tell why, first I never mentioned what was recorded in the logs, secondly just over two weeks ago I commented on a thread to explain how a craft could pick up interference on the ground that could later in the flight affect how craft reacts, flight was just over one minute long, on the same thread you posted to me that you didn’t believe this could happen, but low and behold your on a thread a couple of days ago almost verbatim saying that interference on the ground was as a direct cause of craft going rogue well into flight, you say when you wrong you apologize this is completely wrong and many times you have been proven completely wrong where you refused to back down and apologize .

You are continually condescending to others who don’t agree with you, to the point that they have no choice but to react.

Nice to try to explain with old cases....

Both cases you are referring to are different in their yaw and yaw ref values, but for that you have  to know more than just wikipedia or copy/paste knowledge.

Graphs are used to make data readible, so if you don't like them, don`t look at them or just ignore my posts.

You need a better read about me helping others and decisions made by DJI. Funny saying from you as you are so close to them.

Cheers
JJB

JJB* Posted at 2-2 04:44
Nice to try to explain with old cases....

Both cases you are referring to are different in their yaw and yaw ref values, but for that you have  to know more than just wikipedia or copy/paste knowledge.

As I said you don’t apologize, just try to sweep over while condescending to others, posting 10 graphs and 6 lines of text is not analyzing logs and that’s why anyone that knows about logs can see your trying to bluff your way through with graphs but can’t interpret them.

To the OP: have you gone back to what you learned is the real crash site, and tried to retrieve the AC? Or is it in a completely unaccessible location?