So, here's a follow-up to an incident I first posted about on 3/18

https://forum.dji.com/thread-210928-1-1.html

Had another occurrence when out flying on Sat. evening. The weather was nice, wind was under 10Mph

Just finished a long "pull back" shot, and as in the last instance... put the Mini in Sport Mode and started bringing it back to me relatively fast.  AirData (map below) shows that I hit max speed (again) just before this happened.  Again, seemingly out of NOWHERE the Mini is doing somersaults mid-air. I MEAN INVERTED!!! I looked up and could see there was NOTHING, no birds, no NOTHING around it.  My wife was watching the Mini when this happened and she also saw NOTHING impact the drone. There were no strong gusts at the time that I could feel.

Just to provide complete information, I should note that in BOTH instances I did have a "float" attached to the top of the Mini that I made from Styrofoam, so in case the mini takes a dive in the water I have a fighting chance at recovering it. I had STOPPED USING a pair of "Water Landing Gear" when flying over water because it had such a large profile it was like a sail, and the prop-wash alone caused "turbulence" that wobbled the mini as the air rushed down over the foam "skids" even when there was no wind.... so I made this:



As in the last instance the Mini quickly corrected it's attitude, but after reflecting on this a while a couple of things stand out in my mind:
1) both times this happened I was trying to bring the Mini down/back to me in SPORT MODE
2) both times it happened I had JUST HIT the top speed for that flight
3) both times I was using the "Float"
4) at this point I'm fairly convinced this had NOTHING TO DO WITH BIRDS attacking the Mini

Air Data Map below showing the relevant part of the flight:


It should be noted i have flown in Sport Mode on several occasions w/o the float attached and never seen anything like this, even in stronger wind. But, given that I plan on operating over water MUCH OF THE TIME I'll continue using the float, but just NOT switching to Sport Mode when flying back to myself... and hope that eliminates the problem.

If anyone has any insights or suggestions I'd really appreciate hearing them.

Many thanks!

incidentally, this is the video from that flight:

If anyone has any insights or suggestions I'd really appreciate hearing them.
Screenshots won't help anyone to analyse your flight data.
Post a link to the Airdata report.

It’s very hard to see any other argument here except cause of this problem is caused by adding foam block to the bottom of your drone, I’m not sure why people continue to persist putting what can only be described as ridiculous contraptions voiding their warranty effecting how their craft flys on their drone.

It’s pretty simple, if your craft crashes or is lost as a direct result of malfunction your warranty will cover you, if you crash as a result of carrying an unnecessary payload both your warranty and care refresh are void , it makes no sense .

Nice video good job on that .

Labroides Posted at 4-6 04:04
If anyone has any insights or suggestions I'd really appreciate hearing them.
Screenshots won't help anyone to analyse your flight data.
Post a link to the Airdata report.

Didn't realize I could do that... thanks for the tip:

https://app.airdata.com/flight/a ... ENERALNotifications

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 04:28
Didn't realize I could do that... thanks for the tip:

https://app.airdata.com/flight/ae3cbe4d254a7574fc3456f1c1183e28/GENERALNotifications

Oops ... I was looking at the wrong page.
That's fine - thanks

hallmark007 Posted at 4-6 04:09
It’s very hard to see any other argument here except cause of this problem is caused by adding foam block to the bottom of your drone, I’m not sure why people continue to persist putting what can only be described as ridiculous contraptions voiding their warranty effecting how their craft flys on their drone.

It’s pretty simple, if your craft crashes or is lost as a direct result of malfunction your warranty will cover you, if you crash as a result of carrying an unnecessary payload both your warranty and care refresh are void , it makes no sense .

So, while I will not argue it would be better to not have a float attached to the top of the Mini there are a few points I'd like to make:

1) I live in an area SURROUNDED by water.. as such MOST of my flights are NEAR or DIRECTLY over water.

2) The Float and Rubber Bands combined weight 9 grams... insignificant compared with something like the Prop Guards sold by DJI (which are a "contraption" that gets strapped on to the Mini and does NOT void the warranty.)

3) I have inquired directly with DJI regarding (other non-DJI) accessories and was informed that as long as the Mini is NOT DISASSEMBLED or MODIFIED then using accessories DOES NOT VOID the warranty.

4) The profile of the float is the MINIMUM possible to limit the "Wind Profile" while still allowing the Mini to NOT SINK if it goes in the water.

5) if it GOES DOWN IN THE WATER AND SINKS (which research suggests they do QUICKLY) and I can NOT RECOVER it, what good does a warranty or DJI Refresh do me then anyway!?!  My understanding is you have to send the drone back ("Then send your product to a designated DJI repair center under the instruction of DJI Support staff. ")... and Refresh Care is specifically supposed to cover WATER DAMAGE ("Damage occurring after the product has come into contact with water is covered by the DJI Care Refresh. Product that suffers water damage can be replaced under DJI Care Refresh.")

Please correct me if I'm wrong regarding any of these last 3 points!! Obviously I DO NOT want to do anything to void my warranty or DJI Refresh coverage... but if the drone sinks and can't be recovered it seems like then I'm left w/ no way to make a claim for Refresh care, the warranty issue is irrelevant and I'll be out ~$300 for a new Mini (drone only) and Battery.

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 04:44
So, while I will not argue it would be better to not have a float attached to the top of the Mini there are a few points I'd like to make:

1) I live in an area SURROUNDED by water.. as such MOST of my flights are NEAR or DIRECTLY over water.

I believe your problem is down to contraption you are putting on your drone and I believe that it will and does effect how your craft flys.
You say you contacted dji and they say it’s ok to put such a contraption on your drone, but your warranty tells you that won’t honor warranty if cause of crash is caused by third party add on, so maybe you should get this in writing.

Number 5 is wrong and warranty clearly tells you what’s included and no mention of needing to return drone if it malfunctions, and so if this is what happened then care refresh which requires you to ship in drone does not come into equation.

Check out your refresh below particularly 10/11

Again, seemingly out of NOWHERE the Mini is doing somersaults mid-air. I MEAN INVERTED!!!
Looking at the flight data, I can see that at 10:29.4 the Mini rolled 31° to one side and back 30° in the other direction a second later.
I can't find anywhere that the drone was inverted but the roll angle was often rather high, reaching 20° at another time.

There were no strong gusts at the time that I could feel.
You forget that the drone generates its own wind when flying fast.
Yours was exposed to a 20mph wind when it was going its fastest and you had the right stick full forward and nearly fully to the right, which would have meant that the side of that camel's hump would have been pushing against the air and putting more pressure on the Mini than it was designed for.

I suspect that your modified aerodynamics are the cause of your aerobatics.
I don't understand what makes flyers do this to their drones.
The Mini already is a slow flyer, which has trouble dealing with a headwind.
Full stick in Sport Mode, yours was losing 30% of it's designed Max Speed.

But, given that I plan on operating over water MUCH OF THE TIME I'll continue using the float.
I wouldn't even fly a Mini over dry land and soft grass, so I'd never fly it over water.
But I do almost all my flying over water with a larger DJI drone and I'd never handicap it with any kind of wind catcher/speed reducer.
I think your flight safety is better if the drone can make its designed Max Speed and doesn't get set back with adding wind resistance.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-6 05:11
I believe your problem is down to contraption you are putting on your drone and I believe that it will and does effect how your craft flys.
You say you contacted dji and they say it’s ok to put such a contraption on your drone, but your warranty tells you that won’t honor warranty if cause of crash is caused by third party add on, so maybe you should get this in writing.

I do appreciate your input, BUT doesn't #1 say you need to return the Drone?

DJI Refresh care DOES NOT COVER...
"1. Lost... aircraft..."

How is that "no mention of needing to return drone if it malfunctions"?

I don't believe #10 applies here, because according to DJI staff I contacted, using an accessory that does NOT require modifying the Mini will NOT void the warranty.

#11 is more relevant for sure, but what I'm trying to figure out here is WHAT EXACTLY is causing this so I can prevent it from happening... the Float, by itself can NOT cause the Mini to do back-flips.

Again, I agree the float DOES effect how the drone fly's, and has less problem with wind with NO ACCESSORIES. I'm not trying to argue the Float has no effect on flight characteristics....  I'm just trying to figure out how it's possible that on an otherwise relatively calm day there was such a "violent" change in flight  direction...  And, as I have stated, I DO THINK it's related to using the Float, but I'm curious why the IMU wouldn't have changed the thrust of the motors to maintain a level flight instead of the Mini going in to mid-air gymnastics?

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 05:36
I do appreciate your input, BUT doesn't #1 say you need to return the Drone?

DJI Refresh care DOES NOT COVER...

I'm just trying to figure out how it's possible that on an otherwise relatively calm day there was such a "violent" change in flight  direction...
The data shows that you were flying forward and attained your max speed and then pushed the right stick nearly fully to the right as well as forward, just before the rolling started.
The fast air current, change of direction and pressure of the air now hitting the side of that hump rather than just the front was what caused the incident.

I'm curious why the IMU wouldn't have changed the thrust of the motors to maintain a level flight instead of the Mini going in to mid-air gymnastics?
The gyros in the IMU were measuring the rolling and adjusting thrust on the appropriate motors to counteract it.
The IMU was doing what it could to correct but the modified aerodynamic profile meant that the corrections (as programmed) did not balance the forces affecting the drone.

The drone was designed with the aerodynamic properties (shape/weight) to fly at the prescribed speeds. By attaching any sort of non-tested attachments (i.e. not the propeller guard, which was presumably tested since they manufactured it) you run the risk of fundamentally changing the device's aerodynamic shape, which can lead to erratic behavior.

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 05:36
I do appreciate your input, BUT doesn't #1 say you need to return the Drone?

DJI Refresh care DOES NOT COVER...

I think if you read Labroids analysis you’ll see there was strange roll but no flip, on screen this might look like this but can usually be put down to very sudden gimbal movements caused by craft sudden movements, but you cannot say this didn’t happen because of foam block you added that is as you say yourself impeding your craft from flying as it should.

By adding this float to the craft you are also asking IMU to do much more than its equipped to do and much more often and I think it’s a recipe for disaster.

You need to have faith in your warranty, if you feel craft has a problem then return to be checked out , I have seen many drones including mini being replaced because of malfunction with no need to return drone.

I know and have seen others use similar but I believe eventually it will cause more trouble than it’s worth, I live by the sea and 80% of my flights involve flying over water, and I will be well aware if anything happens to my drone who’s at fault .

Labroides Posted at 4-6 05:30
Again, seemingly out of NOWHERE the Mini is doing somersaults mid-air. I MEAN INVERTED!!!
Looking at the flight data, I can see that at 10:29.4 the Mini rolled 31° to one side and back 30° in the other direction a second later.
I can't find anywhere that the drone was inverted but the roll angle was often rather high, reaching 20° at another time.

I'm willing to accept that!

I guess "INVERTED" was an overstatement... but if you look at the video footage from my earlier post ( https://forum.dji.com/thread-210928-1-1.html ) you will see, on the video from the Mini, in that case it was ~90 degrees off axis.

There have been documented cases where Mini's have gone into a forced landing over water (not able to be over-ridden by pilot ):



After reflecting on your comments regarding control stick position, you have a good point there... on the first occurrence the stick was almost perfectly straight forward, HOWEVER.. I think you are probably right... the speed forward, combined with loading from the side (either from wind or control movement) is most likely what's causing this.

Damn!!! I wish the Mini floated!

It seemed prudent to use some method of keeping the Mini afloat if it went down in water, but of course, I'm not interested in doing anything that will CREATE problems instead of mitigate them.

wee.minidrone Posted at 4-6 06:01
The drone was designed with the aerodynamic properties (shape/weight) to fly at the prescribed speeds. By attaching any sort of non-tested attachments (i.e. not the propeller guard, which was presumably tested since they manufactured it) you run the risk of fundamentally changing the device's aerodynamic shape, which can lead to erratic behavior.

That does make perfect sense.

@Labroides

“I suspect that your modified aerodynamics are the cause of your aerobatics.”

Being a lifelong aviator (retired from big birds), I must say your choice of words is music to my ears!

Oh…… and to the OP. I tend to agree with this statement 100%.

Stay safe.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-6 06:03
I think if you read Labroids analysis you’ll see there was strange roll but no flip, on screen this might look like this but can usually be put down to very sudden gimbal movements caused by craft sudden movements, but you cannot say this didn’t happen because of foam block you added that is as you say yourself impeding your craft from flying as it should.

By adding this float to the craft you are also asking IMU to do much more than its equipped to do and much more often and I think it’s a recipe for disaster.

Hmmm. interesting..    So I see your point.. The IMU can handle correcting the Mini on it's own.... but add the extra load of correcting for the Float ( especially at high speed  ) and it can't handle it!!! That is sound logic and I realy appreciate you insights.

StubbornSwiss Posted at 4-6 06:08
@Labroides

“I suspect that your modified aerodynamics are the cause of your aerobatics.”

Alright,  I believe I have gotten some very good responses...  I appreciate everyone weighing in! THANK YOU TO everyone!!!   So, from now on I guess I risk it with no Float.

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 06:11
Hmmm. interesting..    So I see your point.. The IMU can handle correcting the Mini on it's own.... but add the extra load of correcting for the Float ( especially at high speed  ) and it can't handle it!!! That is sound logic and I realy appreciate you insights.

No problem, most people at first are terrified by flying over water, but it’s probably the safest environment to fly in , less problems with interference, almost obstacles just keep an eye on the wind and you should be ok .

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 06:15
Alright,  I believe I have gotten some very good responses...  I appreciate everyone weighing in! THANK YOU TO everyone!!!   So, from now on I guess I risk it with no Float.

I think the front arms are suspicious ... maybe there are propeller marks on the side of the case.

DaMa Posted at 4-6 06:30
I think the front arms are suspicious ... maybe there are propeller marks on the side of the case.

Negative.... no marks, but I see what you mean... I guess they could fold while in flight under violent wind conditions at high speed. However, I do not think that was the case here, nor do I think that was the case the 1st time it happened. On that occasion I inspected the Mini meticulously suspecting a bird strike.

hallmark007 Posted at 4-6 06:15
No problem, most people at first are terrified by flying over water, but it’s probably the safest environment to fly in , less problems with interference, almost obstacles just keep an eye on the wind and you should be ok .

Agreement !! "...safest environment to fly..."

hallmark007 Posted at 4-6 06:15
No problem, most people at first are terrified by flying over water, but it’s probably the safest environment to fly in , less problems with interference, almost obstacles just keep an eye on the wind and you should be ok .

You are absolutely right! For my "day job" I design, install and maintain many 2.4/5Ghz WiFi Systems in the motels and businesses here in Montauk, NY, so I have a keen awareness of how much "noise" there is on 5Ghz fq. band on land. (LOTS!!!)

My main concerns when flying over water are:

1) The visual sensors can have issues when you are close to reflective surfaces, and I've had situations where I was hovering 5-6 feet over water, and the Mini started descending w/o warning or control input (and it was NOT "Landing.").

If I hadn't reacted quickly the Mini would have splashed down. Since there is no way to deactivate the sensors, and since the most recent firmware upgrade, putting tape over them to force "Atti-mode" no longer works (Mini just wants to Land all the time now in my tests) this is a point of concern I have specific to operating over water.

2) In some (rare) instances (that I've seen documented on YouTube) the Mini has insisted on landing in water, regardless of sufficient battery charge (see link above).

Arguably in this second case there could have been other factors that played a part... primarily I suspect deformed props as the culprit.

Do the protocols give us the speeds of the respective motors?

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 06:33
Negative.... no marks, but I see what you mean... I guess they could fold while in flight under violent wind conditions at high speed. However, I do not think that was the case here, nor do I think that was the case the 1st time it happened. On that occasion I inspected the Mini meticulously suspecting a bird strike.

So have we explored this yet??  Take a look at the prop tips in the overhead shot.

The left front tips have been worn off ( the paint )  as opposed to the left rear prop tips which are NOT worn off.....

Let's say you are hauling butt home.....either a brief increase of wind or abrupt yaw change can deform the foam piece.....thus causing rubbing of the props and therefore slowing down that motor...briefly...long enough to pitch your AC into uncontrolled situation.....KEEP IN MIND we have seen the props hit the body......

Theoretically, this motor slow down should show up in the Data/flight records.....But the brief motor slow down due to props hitting the foam would certainly cause this......IF THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED>

Randy
https://www.facebook.com/aerial.traffica

This is hilarious. I remember your other thread and commented there. I like how you completely neglected to tell anyone there you had stuck a massive piece of foam to the drone. Any modifications you make to the drone come with risk. No good can come from having such a large piece of foam attached to the drone. I should also note you completely void your warranty doing this also.

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 06:50
You are absolutely right! For my "day job" I design, install and maintain many 2.4/5Ghz WiFi Systems in the motels and businesses here in Montauk, NY, so I have a keen awareness of how much "noise" there is on 5Ghz fq. band on land. (LOTS!!!)

My main concerns when flying over water are:

If you now are so worried when flying over water this is a better solution in order to recover it --> https://www.getterback.com/

But as pointed out earlier ... the Mini is already weak to start with, adding more gadgets to it will only make thing's worse.

rwynant V1 Posted at 4-6 11:47
So have we explored this yet??  Take a look at the prop tips in the overhead shot.

The left front tips have been worn off ( the paint )  as opposed to the left rear prop tips which are NOT worn off.....

Well now!!! That is without question an excellent hypothesis!  It could certainly account for an abrupt loss of lift causing the extreme change in orientation.

I will say that I did not hear anything abnormal, but that doesn't mean what you suggested didn't happen. Furthermore I completely agree that given the fact it is held on by ( HEAVY ) rubber bands that it's possible with enough air speed and a direction change or gust of wind that it could have shifted. I freely admit that when I was setting the Float up I was absolutely NOT taking into account the forces that could be exerted on it in high-speed flight.

I've re-inspected those prop tips even more cloesely...  the only visible imperfection I can see is on the tip of the LEFT REAR props... there is 1 TINY scratch in the paint, AND YES, I do see signs of THAT 1 PROPS TIPS hitting the foam after doing a much closer inspection on the prop tips themselves.

I have to say I think you may have hit on the actual cause of what happened, and I sincerely thank everyone for their input, guidance, thoughts, suggestions, warnings and advice!

slup Posted at 4-6 12:34
If you now are so worried when flying over water this is a better solution in order to recover it --> https://www.getterback.com/

But as pointed out earlier ... the Mini is already weak to start with, adding more gadgets to it will only make thing's worse.

That might work in a pond or still body of water... but not in the Ocean in 60+' of water with a ripping current... which is what I'm surrounded  by... and have clients with Charter and Party Boats who want drone shots for their web sites, etc.

(I looked at that as a possible solution..  I know it has a 100' length of line, but that tiny float will not stay up in any current)

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 12:51
That might work in a pond or still body of water... but not in the Ocean in 60+' of water with a ripping current... which is what I'm surrounded  by... and have clients with Charter and Party Boats who want drone shots for their web sites, etc.

(I looked at that as a possible solution..  I know it has a 100' length of line, but that tiny float will not stay up in any current)

They make these for over water, not sure on how they perform though. Looks like a lot of payload to me... the mini is only a small drone.

deathsquad Posted at 4-6 12:30
This is hilarious. I remember your other thread and commented there. I like how you completely neglected to tell anyone there you had stuck a massive piece of foam to the drone. Any modifications you make to the drone come with risk. No good can come from having such a large piece of foam attached to the drone. I should also note you completely void your warranty doing this also.

So, truthfully, it seemed to me like a (loss of) control problem the first time this happened, which is why I did not include that info. But as I stated, when it happened a second time, while I had the float on, while I was in Sport Mode it became apparent the Float was a common factor. In retrospect, I should have included that info in my first post.

So, regarding the use of the Float, I will say only this.... based on my research there have BEEN LOTS OF DRONES LOST IN WATER (regardless of the reason).  My thought was, I AM GOING TO HAVE TO FLY OVER WATER... therefore I stand a chance of my drone going down in water. The LAST THING I WANT is my drone polluting some pond, or lake, or the ocean... sitting on the bottom, leaching out toxic chemicals from the battery... so I wanted to make EVERY EFFORT to prevent that from happening by being able to retrieve the drone if it were to ever go down in water.

PS, love the handle DEATHSQUAD!

deathsquad Posted at 4-6 13:01
They make these for over water, not sure on how they perform though. Looks like a lot of payload to me... the mini is only a small drone.

[view_image]

So, in the beginning of this post I explain that I have a pair of those, but they are like a SAIL in the wind... and what's worse, the prop wash hits the foam skids and causes significant turbulence which makes the Mini bounce around a LOT even with no wind.   After thinking about it, it became apparent that if the Mini goes down in the Ocean it's not like those will keep if from getting hit by waves or ruined anyway... so I tried to come up with a more aerodynamic solution that would still keep the Mini on the surface long enough to make an attempt to retrieve it.

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 13:07
So, truthfully, it seemed to me like a (loss of) control problem the first time this happened, which is why I did not include that info. But as I stated, when it happened a second time, while I had the float on, while I was in Sport Mode it became apparent the Float was a common factor. In retrospect, I should have included that info in my first post.

So, regarding the use of the Float, I will say only this.... based on my research there have BEEN LOTS OF DRONES LOST IN WATER (regardless of the reason).  My thought was, I AM GOING TO HAVE TO FLY OVER WATER... therefore I stand a chance of my drone going down in water. The LAST THING I WANT is my drone polluting some pond, or lake, or the ocean... sitting on the bottom, leaching out toxic chemicals from the battery... so I wanted to make EVERY EFFORT to prevent that from happening by being able to retrieve the drone if it were to ever go down in water.

I understand your reasoning but to me modifying the drone like that may actually increase your chance of the drone falling in the water. It's obviously causing issues in flight. It's also worth noting in sports mode the tilt the drone does is extreme and this may be what is causing it to flip. The drone angle is severe in sports mode to fly through the air faster. Try flying past yourself and watch the drone fly in normal P mode then in S mode.

I fly over a lot of water, here in Australia the beaches are the best places to shoot. But I would never even think to add flotation devices to the mini. If it lands in the ocean it's gone regardless. I have noticed at some locations if I get a little low, like under 5 metres, the drone wants to land or go down sometimes probably due to the sensors having issues detecting the water. I was shooting a boat dock and while adjusting the exposure I noticed the image moving down while I was tweaking it so quickly pressed up on the stick. You just have to be careful over water, especially at lower heights. I am very careful now not to hover too low to water. If you don't take risks and fly with a full battery in good conditions you shouldn't need to worry about losing your drone. Adding foam bits is a very bad idea in my opinion.

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 13:07
So, truthfully, it seemed to me like a (loss of) control problem the first time this happened, which is why I did not include that info. But as I stated, when it happened a second time, while I had the float on, while I was in Sport Mode it became apparent the Float was a common factor. In retrospect, I should have included that info in my first post.

So, regarding the use of the Float, I will say only this.... based on my research there have BEEN LOTS OF DRONES LOST IN WATER (regardless of the reason).  My thought was, I AM GOING TO HAVE TO FLY OVER WATER... therefore I stand a chance of my drone going down in water. The LAST THING I WANT is my drone polluting some pond, or lake, or the ocean... sitting on the bottom, leaching out toxic chemicals from the battery... so I wanted to make EVERY EFFORT to prevent that from happening by being able to retrieve the drone if it were to ever go down in water.

Just went back through my records.... with regards to warranty when inquiring about 3rd party accessories... this is what I was told by Marky at DJI Tech Support on Jan 13, 2020:

"I was able to check and since this does not disassemble or replace part of the aircraft, it should not void the warranty of the drone."

Was I misinformed by DJI Tech support?

Also, if the drone went down in the water I'd want to get a replacement through DJI Refresh.. NOT a warranty claim... and please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the AC is "Lost" it is NOT covered by DJI Refresh?

deathsquad Posted at 4-6 13:27
I understand your reasoning but to me modifying the drone like that may actually increase your chance of the drone falling in the water. It's obviously causing issues in flight. It's also worth noting in sports mode the tilt the drone does is extreme and this may be what is causing it to flip. The drone angle is severe in sports mode to fly through the air faster. Try flying past yourself and watch the drone fly in normal P mode then in S mode.

I fly over a lot of water, here in Australia the beaches are the best places to shoot. But I would never even think to add flotation devices to the mini. If it lands in the ocean it's gone regardless. I have noticed at some locations if I get a little low, like under 5 metres, the drone wants to land or go down sometimes probably due to the sensors having issues detecting the water. I was shooting a boat dock and while adjusting the exposure I noticed the image moving down while I was tweaking it so quickly pressed up on the stick. You just have to be careful over water, especially at lower heights. I am very careful now not to hover too low to water. If you don't take risks and fly with a full battery in good conditions you shouldn't need to worry about losing your drone. Adding foam bits is a very bad idea in my opinion.

I do understand and agree with your points.... just trying to minimize the risk of 1) not being able to get a Replacement from DJI cuz I LOST the drone (while DJI Refresh is active) and 2) trying to prevent polluting the environment if it ever DID go down...   But obviously, if all I'm doing is INCREASING the chances of a problem I don't want to do THAT!!

Thank you for your comments!

Wondering if this could be an alternative option (providing you have a recovery boat)

m80116 Posted at 4-6 14:18
Wondering if this could be an alternative option (providing you have a recovery boat)

I do have a recovery boat... and would most likely be operating from a boat if i were flying over the Ocean. I investigated this option, but after looking at it closely I doubt it would do much in most of the places I'd possibly lose the drone...  in 50-60 feet of water with strong tidal currents.  It's normal to have to use 10-12oz. of weight to hold bottom when fishing in the area, and I used to have to double up buoys on my lobster traps to get them to stay CLOSE to the surface.  I know this thing has 100' of line, but on the ocean, that float is SO TINY it would be like finding a needle in a hay stack even if the float didn't get pulled down by currents... finding a brightly painted, full size lobster buoy WITH THE EXACT coordinates was enough of a challenge for me to expect this device would be of no use ( in the Ocean anyway. )

Maybe the answer is to get one of these for use over still/shallow bodies of water w/o currents, and just go free-style over the Ocean taking every possible precaution.

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 12:51
That might work in a pond or still body of water... but not in the Ocean in 60+' of water with a ripping current... which is what I'm surrounded  by... and have clients with Charter and Party Boats who want drone shots for their web sites, etc.

(I looked at that as a possible solution..  I know it has a 100' length of line, but that tiny float will not stay up in any current)

That might work in a pond or still body of water... but not in the Ocean in 60+' of water with a ripping current... which is what I'm surrounded  by... and have clients with Charter and Party Boats who want drone shots for their web sites, etc.
If you choose to fly over water, there are some risks that you choose to take.
I do almost all of my flying over water and I know the risks are much less than the potential reward and are acceptable.

But I'd never fly over water with a drone with such a poor record of staying in the air.
And I'd never handicap my drone with any of the clumsy contraptions I see suggested by/for nervous flyers.
Those things are more likely to contribute to the loss of your drone than make flying safer.
You really need something faster, more wind resistant and more reliable if you are going to be shooting boats commercially.

Labroides Posted at 4-6 16:35
That might work in a pond or still body of water... but not in the Ocean in 60+' of water with a ripping current... which is what I'm surrounded  by... and have clients with Charter and Party Boats who want drone shots for their web sites, etc.
If you choose to fly over water, there are some risks that you choose to take.
I do almost all of my flying over water and I know the risks are much less than the potential reward and are acceptable.

Those are words of wisdom. Duly noted.

It has become apparent to me based on all the combined feedback in this Thread from much more experienced drone pilots that the float is simply NOT a good idea in general, or the proper solution.

MontaukDrone Posted at 4-6 13:29
Just went back through my records.... with regards to warranty when inquiring about 3rd party accessories... this is what I was told by Marky at DJI Tech Support on Jan 13, 2020:

"I was able to check and since this does not disassemble or replace part of the aircraft, it should not void the warranty of the drone."

Regardless of what the particular DJI rep told you, if they learn you were flying with a block of styrofoam on top of your AC, they will rightfully give you hard time before accepting a warranty claim.

I do understand why you want to be able to recover your MM if it falls in the water, but adding a float (especially this large, and in such a precarious way) will dramatically increase your chances of ending up in the water, in the first place. Fly your MM as-is, if you get any warning signs of the infamous "uncontrolled descent" problem, change the props (it seems to help, although it's not completely confirmed) and see how it goes.