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No CE Certification & No AirSense outside the USA
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Ian in London
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I think it's no secret how much I love most DJI products but I am fairly disappointed to say the least that two significant features are missing for the entire European market from the new Air 2.

AirSense was promised on all >250gm drones for 2020 yet DJI's latest drone is only offering this in the USA initially on the Air 2, meaning early buyers in Europe will miss out on this hardware ( and therefore not ever get it via a firmware update).


Even more annoyingly is the lack of CE certification for the new Air 2.  This is required for all European countries including the UK from later this year and after a 2 year transition period, all old unclassified drones will remain 'unclassified' and only be able to be flown in A3 category areas (ie 150 metres from any built up areas). The CAA are very clear that existing unclassified models CANNOT be retrospectively classified, so there is no scope for 'getting the right sticker issued later'.  


So whilst I still think the new Air 2 will be an incredible bit of kit, I think early European buyers need to be aware of these issues.  For some it may be a deal-breaker....

Here's my thoughts

Ian








4-30 12:21
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djiuser_usdzA8hO6kpx
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When will the uk models get this air sense
4-30 13:42
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Ian in London
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djiuser_usdzA8hO6kpx Posted at 4-30 13:42
When will the uk models get this air sense

"Later this year" is all we're told...... But only for those not yet sold.
4-30 13:53
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Vlas
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That would be a bummer for sure.
4-30 16:57
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Labroides
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Vlas Posted at 4-30 16:57
That would be a bummer for sure.

It's really not much use anyway.
4-30 17:26
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Bigplumbs
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Labroides Posted at 4-30 17:26
It's really not much use anyway.

Agreed but if it is in effect a mandatory requirement I am not buying one now and will wait. I was right ready to spend my money but not now and I think most buyers in the CE area (If they are aware) will feel the same
4-30 21:12
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Ian in London
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Labroides Posted at 4-30 17:26
It's really not much use anyway.

The CE certification is pretty useful if you want to fly in less restricted airspace in 2 years....
4-30 22:37
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giomgio
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A lot of European buyers should be aware of this.
I am really disappointed in DJI releasing 2 different versions and paying more or less the same price.
They should have released one same version, even if the production value was lower in the beginning.
The lack of new CE certification disappoints me even more.
It's still a lot of money and I don't want to buy something which will limit my flying in the near future.
Even if you want to sell it for example after 2 years, nobody wants a drone without this certification.

I really want to buy the Mavic Air 2, I sold my Mavic Air 1 for this.
But without ADS-B and the new CE certification I will wait and hope they will release a version with these features soon.
4-30 23:23
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djiuser_KDbg1a7ettWF
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But in these images, doesn't the Mavic air 2 seem to have the CE certification as it is clearly printed on?
4-30 23:53
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Go4Fun
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That's not the same.
This is what the new CE marking will look like, the number changes for each catagory
5-1 00:17
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Go4Fun
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This symbol will be addes to the standard CE marking as far as I understand

5-1 00:19
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SLiWooDy
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This is a kick in the balls for anyone in the UK or EU. Why would DJi do this?
5-1 00:22
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Montfrooij
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From what I have heard, the EU failed to make the requirements for the C1 certificate. The tech specs for electronic ID are not ready....
Not sure if that is true, but a guy from Dronewatch (a dutch website) has talked to DJI and some other insiders about it.
5-1 00:52
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sbonev
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definitely not a good move...i was ready to order, now i will wait at least until the ads-b is available. Though it is preoccupying DJI is not mentioning any dates nor there is a way to say the version you are ordering has it, there is nothing in the specs...this is way too shady.

Also the new european certification is not a good move, the only feedback from DJI being it doesn't matter that much, you still have 2 years. While understandable, this way they will make sure to sell you another drone in 2 years, it is really a bad practice that is making me think twice if i want to finance them anymore. They should address this  also ASAP.
5-1 01:08
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DAFlys
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Thanks for bring attention to this,  I agree its very disappointing.
5-1 01:19
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hallmark007
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sbonev Posted at 5-1 01:08
definitely not a good move...i was ready to order, now i will wait at least until the ads-b is available. Though it is preoccupying DJI is not mentioning any dates nor there is a way to say the version you are ordering has it, there is nothing in the specs...this is way too shady.

Also the new european certification is not a good move, the only feedback from DJI being it doesn't matter that much, you still have 2 years. While understandable, this way they will make sure to sell you another drone in 2 years, it is really a bad practice that is making me think twice if i want to finance them anymore. They should address this  also ASAP.

You will have almost 3 years, new EASA time table looks like rules will be out now in 2021 so you will have two years moratorium from 2021 to 2023 . ADSB will not be a requirement for EASA for EASA rules you will need Remote id. It’s no excuse why Airsense is missing .
5-1 01:30
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djiuser_KDbg1a7ettWF
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So I just had a conversation about the new EU CE certification labels with DJI support. I've attached screenshots below:
5-1 01:41
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Ice_2k
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so they insist it's C1-compliant but then states that you can use it for two years, meaning it's NOT C1? Which is it?......
5-1 01:45
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djiuser_KDbg1a7ettWF
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Well... he did say that "after the release of the new policy, our drone can continue to fly in the airspace under the old CE standard" if you look closely
5-1 01:54
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Ice_2k
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ok, I think I got a clearer answer from them.... While the specs do meet the requirements, they didn't actually certify it.

Screen Shot 2020-05-01 at 12.54.19.png

5-1 01:55
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gnirtS
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I dont think you CAN certify as a CE class UAS yet (Note simply having CE isnt the same thing).

I haven't found any documentation showing its possible.

It might be CE1 compliant but its not certified.  Its not retrospective so quite simply, if you buy one now it will *never* meet that standard and in theory at least, be severely restricted.

Lack of ADS-B isnt an issue at all as it'll fail to display most traffic likely to conflict but not having a CE classification is a bigger issue as in 2 years from implementation, in theory, if caught, its a lot more restricted.

I still think this initial MA2 release was never intended to sell in europe - they wanted a model to sell somewhere as the EU is dragging its feet.  So add to that supply issues you might as well sell the full product in some areas and any sales outside that are a bonus.

If/When the EU get around to a certification process they'll get it done and all new ones sold after that will qualify.

This isn't DJIs fault - blame the glacial and always-late EU for failing to stick to their own timetable.  again.
5-1 02:04
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Ice_2k
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and one more...

5-1 02:13
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Vlas
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Ian in London Posted at 4-30 22:37
The CE certification is pretty useful if you want to fly in less retricted airspace in 2 years....

Very true.
5-1 02:24
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bjr981s
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SLiWooDy Posted at 5-1 00:22
This is a kick in the balls for anyone in the UK or EU. Why would DJi do this?

Sorry, For everyone on the planet that's not in Canada and the USA.

Here is OZ we are not CE but we don't get Air-sense either.

I bought one with DJI care and I will extend it when required. If they release the correct model here with air-sense I will have mine replaced as faulty.
5-1 02:38
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sbonev
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hallmark007 Posted at 5-1 01:30
You will have almost 3 years, new EASA time table looks like rules will be out now in 2021 so you will have two years moratorium from 2021 to 2023 . ADSB will not be a requirement for EASA for EASA rules you will need Remote id. It’s no excuse why Airsense is missing .

i am sorry but if i am paying the same price i want the same hardware. nevertheless here in Switzerland it should be much more used, also there are a lot of flying helis around, and in the slightest chance it is used i would prefer to have it, not to mention that i  am planning to travel to USA at some point and for there it will be a real plus.
Also the EASA issue, ok perfect 3 years, fine by me, but would you buy something knowing that in 3 years your use will be limited. All this arguments while valid, are not convincing. This is not a serious excuse for such big company and way of doing business.
5-1 02:40
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Ice_2k
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bjr981s Posted at 5-1 02:38
Sorry, For everyone on the planet that's not in Canada and the USA.

Here is OZ we are not CE but we don't get Air-sense either.

how will you replace it as faulty?
5-1 02:45
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castormalin
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My guess is that the untruncated version will never be available outside US and it's only a pretext to make more money.
Because they have different part numbers and adding the hardware in the EU version would require a re-certification and additionnal cost. It makes no sense. Future will tell
5-1 02:54
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castormalin
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Ice_2k Posted at 5-1 02:45
how will you replace it as faulty?

Not possible, it's not the same part hehe
5-1 02:56
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hallmark007
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sbonev Posted at 5-1 02:40
i am sorry but if i am paying the same price i want the same hardware. nevertheless here in Switzerland it should be much more used, also there are a lot of flying helis around, and in the slightest chance it is used i would prefer to have it, not to mention that i  am planning to travel to USA at some point and for there it will be a real plus.
Also the EASA issue, ok perfect 3 years, fine by me, but would you buy something knowing that in 3 years your use will be limited. All this arguments while valid, are not convincing. This is not a serious excuse for such big company and way of doing business.

The FAA have already said they won’t be using ADSB , Most light aircraft both in Europe and US don’t bother with it, it’s very easy to see manned aircraft in the Air seeing them 10 miles away is easy, ADSB was designed so as drone users might be able to fly above rules limits and beyond VLOS without SOP but both EASA and FAA will not be buying into that, if you want to know what’s flying in your area there are plenty of apps but I bet you never bother to use them just as many in fact I’d safely say 99% so my question is this are you really worried about a Helicopter coming into your 120m by 400m . Without drone to drone and open sky to use ATC without having specific operations permission ADSB is not what was envisaged, it was designed mainly with commercial pilots in mind. But has been diminished to basically a plane spotters delight.

I’m not certain you paid for it either, just looking at price of my orignal Mavic Air I would say not, it’s normal that Europeans pay an average €100 more for these drones in this price bracket, so you would need to check if dji are going to charge more for Airsense when it arrives for EU .
5-1 04:10
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hallmark007
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bjr981s Posted at 5-1 02:38
Sorry, For everyone on the planet that's not in Canada and the USA.

Here is OZ we are not CE but we don't get Air-sense either.

Yes but that will cost you €89 , it’s going to be available in a new M3 which we all will succumb to. But I admire your ingenuity.
5-1 04:15
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hallmark007
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djiuser_KDbg1a7ettWF Posted at 5-1 01:41
So I just had a conversation about the new EU CE certification labels with DJI support. I've attached screenshots below:
[view_image][view_image][view_image]

EASA rules have now been put on hold until December 2020, it is most likely we will not see these implemented until 2021 so you will have a moratorium of almost 3 years for legacy drones so apart from dji handling the situation badly I think it’s not going to be a problem .
5-1 04:25
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sbonev
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hallmark007 Posted at 5-1 04:10
The FAA have already said they won’t be using ADSB , Most light aircraft both in Europe and US don’t bother with it, it’s very easy to see manned aircraft in the Air seeing them 10 miles away is easy, ADSB was designed so as drone users might be able to fly above rules limits and beyond VLOS without SOP but both EASA and FAA will not be buying into that, if you want to know what’s flying in your area there are plenty of apps but I bet you never bother to use them just as many in fact I’d safely say 99% so my question is this are you really worried about a Helicopter coming into your 120m by 400m . Without drone to drone and open sky to use ATC without having specific operations permission ADSB is not what was envisaged, it was designed mainly with commercial pilots in mind. But has been diminished to basically a plane spotters delight.

I’m not certain you paid for it either, just looking at price of my orignal Mavic Air I would say not, it’s normal that Europeans pay an average €100 more for these drones in this price bracket, so you would need to check if dji are going to charge more for Airsense when it arrives for EU .

i already have seen several helis a lot lower than 400m, actually here they fly at around 100 m quite often and the other day i saw one fly quite close to my mini...and i don't see why are you so eagerly defending dji? simply put they sell something that lacks the hardware they sell on another market and intentionally hide it. That is not good business practice and definitely something i will endorse and support by buying. It is that simple. Price is same in the USA and here, specs are not and more so they are hiding it. So i won't buy it!!! And EASA rules might be on hold, but how much of an overhead is to put a label to stick to them? they won't be in too much of expenses to adhere to it and it will be good for consumers. But i guess it is a lot better for them to ensure you will have to buy new drone from them in 3 years. No matter how many times you repeat the same things and try to convince everybody it is no big deal, it still is big enough to not be tolerated by customers in EU market.
5-1 04:44
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castormalin
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Completely agree with you sbonev.
The point is not to justify a selling price which is  only a marketing decsion or justify a (promised) missing feature because some ULMs or small airplanes don't use it blablabla.
5-1 04:58
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hallmark007
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sbonev Posted at 5-1 04:44
i already have seen several helis a lot lower than 400m, actually here they fly at around 100 m quite often and the other day i saw one fly quite close to my mini...and i don't see why are you so eagerly defending dji? simply put they sell something that lacks the hardware they sell on another market and intentionally hide it. That is not good business practice and definitely something i will endorse and support by buying. It is that simple. Price is same in the USA and here, specs are not and more so they are hiding it. So i won't buy it!!! And EASA rules might be on hold, but how much of an overhead is to put a label to stick to them? they won't be in too much of expenses to adhere to it and it will be good for consumers. But i guess it is a lot better for them to ensure you will have to buy new drone from them in 3 years. No matter how many times you repeat the same things and try to convince everybody it is no big deal, it still is big enough to not be tolerated by customers in EU market.

I have never defended dji on this matter, but it’s clear that it’s not available, so I was pointing out how little this is needed and how it actually will not effect anyone’s flying certainly not for the next 3 years, if you read the thread dji have said that it can be retrofitted at a later date, but due to covid 19 they simply cannot get parts for rest of the world except US and Canada, so unless you just arrived from space you will be aware of what the world is going through, I suppose dji could have suspended release to Europe, but why if they’re people who are not bothered about the need to have and pay extra for ADSB which if you read posts above you will clearly see you will pat extra for ADSB.

But refrain from misquoting, I’m well aware of the situation and I’m not defending anything except what is very obvious.
5-1 05:27
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DJI Mindy
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Thanks for raising your concerns here in Forum. DJI will implement the production and sales standards in accordance with the requirements of local policies, there will be no restrictions currently.
Actually none of the electronic products can do the CE Certification until the CE standard is released.
According to the conclusion given by our legal affairs, even after the new policy is launched, the products currently on the market will have a product protection period of two years, which means we can use Mavic Air 2 as usual.
Two years after the release of the new policy, our drone can continue to fly in the airspace under the old CE standard. For airspace flight under the new CE standard, you need to use it under the relevant government operating guidelines.
5-1 05:30
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hallmark007
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castormalin Posted at 5-1 04:58
Completely agree with you sbonev.
The point is not to justify a selling price which is  only a marketing decsion or justify a (promised) missing feature because some ULMs or small airplanes don't use it blablabla.

Well are you so ignorant to not realize that the world is pretty much upside down at the minute and it’s already been said that parts were not available so ADSB couldn’t be implemented in this drone, I think if you read post above you will see dji have said they would retrofit it at a later date as well as saying when parts are available it would be fitted to EU drones, I imagine if drone was not released you’d be here whining about that.
5-1 05:33
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Ice_2k
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DJI Mindy Posted at 5-1 05:30
Thanks for raising your concerns here in Forum. DJI will implement the production and sales standards in accordance with the requirements of local policies, there will be no restrictions currently.
Actually none of the electronic products can do the CE Certification until the CE standard is released.
According to the conclusion given by our legal affairs, even after the new policy is launched, the products currently on the market will have a product protection period of two years, which means we can use Mavic Air 2 as usual.

Hi Mindy, thanks for pitching in. I got the same exact response from your support, I suppose this is the message as you received it from the legal department. I would however like to be able to put this message in simpler terms: DJI Mavic Air 2 will NOT have the EU C1 certification, is that correct? And if so, one year from now when new Air 2 drones will be sold C1-certified, will DJI offer any options for current Air 2 owners to "retro-certify" their drones?
5-1 05:34
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Ice_2k
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hallmark007 Posted at 5-1 05:33
Well are you so ignorant to not realize that the world is pretty much upside down at the minute and it’s already been said that parts were not available so ADSB couldn’t be implemented in this drone, I think if you read post above you will see dji have said they would retrofit it at a later date as well as saying when parts are available it would be fitted to EU drones, I imagine if drone was not released you’d be here whining about that.

I agree with the fact that the current situation is what it is and they simply don't have the parts to install in all Air 2s. Where I do believe DJI are pretty much mocking the non-US clients is that to get it retrofitted at a later date when it becomes available, you need to pay for the "upgrade" plus shipping. Which is really not ok, you can't consider it an upgrade if I already paid for it. If one side (us) needs to understand the current situation, then maybe the other side (DJI) should as well. Asking me to pay just for shipping but not for the ADS-B itself would be much fairer.
5-1 05:39
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castormalin
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hallmark007 Posted at 5-1 05:33
Well are you so ignorant to not realize that the world is pretty much upside down at the minute and it’s already been said that parts were not available so ADSB couldn’t be implemented in this drone, I think if you read post above you will see dji have said they would retrofit it at a later date as well as saying when parts are available it would be fitted to EU drones, I imagine if drone was not released you’d be here whining about that.

Can you please show me the official statment from DJI saying they will retrofit the EU MA2's with ADS-B  for free ? I've missed that
5-1 05:49
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Ice_2k Posted at 5-1 05:34
Hi Mindy, thanks for pitching in. I got the same exact response from your support, I suppose this is the message as you received it from the legal department. I would however like to be able to put this message in simpler terms: DJI Mavic Air 2 will NOT have the EU C1 certification, is that correct? And if so, one year from now when new Air 2 drones will be sold C1-certified, will DJI offer any options for current Air 2 owners to "retro-certify" their drones?

I really want to know this as well.
And maybe also an added question: will the 2021 production Mavic Air 2 have this EU C1 certification standard? Or do they have to release a complete new device to be EU C1 compliant?
5-1 06:02
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