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Bad news for EU Mini 2 Owners.
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2791 89 2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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Seems EASA has confirmed the rule changes from weight to MTOM for the <249g category,   and have confirmed they have a system in place for classififcation.

I suspect we will see a Mini3 without any accessories like the Mavic 3 lineup in europe.


2021-11-24
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Bashy
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Sounds like the UK is ok, thank god for Brexit
2021-11-24
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Montfrooij
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If it is only about those couple of grams, I'm not sure what I will do.
That feels a bit a theoretical difference that you won't notice.
2021-11-24
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Bashy
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Theres a simple way DJI can resolve this anyway, remove the prop guards from the market, feck, they ain't much use anyway, either that or make them lighter some how. Its up to DJI now, do they want to keep selling their product to the sub 250g category or not...
2021-11-24
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Johnny_J
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Yet another lengthy and boring YouTube video. A text can explain everything about this issue in 10 seconds!
All those YouTube video are also environmentally detrimental. Instead of a text file of a couple of kBytes or so with the very same information, YouTubers impose Gigabyte loads on the internet because of their self-aggrandizing needs!

"Look at my video! I'm so important! Don't forget to subscribe!"
2021-11-24
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red_canyon16
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This is why I'm glad I live in the middle of nowhere in the US.

I've literally had FAA guys and officers tell me they don't care about the weight as long as I keep just flying over fields.
2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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Bashy Posted at 11-24 04:47
Sounds like the UK is ok, thank god for Brexit

So far we are excluded,   but give them time.
2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-24 05:01
If it is only about those couple of grams, I'm not sure what I will do.
That feels a bit a theoretical difference that you won't notice.

I can feel a mini3 launched like the Mavic 3 without any accessories and then they just need to print in the manual the MTOM and were good.
2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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Bashy Posted at 11-24 05:19
Theres a simple way DJI can resolve this anyway, remove the prop guards from the market, feck, they ain't much use anyway, either that or make them lighter some how. Its up to DJI now, do they want to keep selling their product to the sub 250g category or not...

Yes,  I suspect they will do that with the Mini3,  just like the Mavic 3,  dont sell any accessories and then print the weight in the manual and the EU is golden.
2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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Johnny_J Posted at 11-24 06:51
Yet another lengthy and boring YouTube video. A text can explain everything about this issue in 10 seconds!
All those YouTube video are also environmentally detrimental. Instead of a text file of a couple of kBytes or so with the very same information, YouTubers impose Gigabyte loads on the internet because of their self-aggrandizing needs!

He wanted to show proof of the communications with EASA so that takes a little longer,  but if you dont like you can press the thumbs down button twice.
2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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red_canyon16 Posted at 11-24 07:03
This is why I'm glad I live in the middle of nowhere in the US.

I've literally had FAA guys and officers tell me they don't care about the weight as long as I keep just flying over fields.

Sadly we cant all live nowhere.
2021-11-24
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Johnny_J
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DAFlys Posted at 11-24 08:02
Sadly we cant all live nowhere.

"cant"
2021-11-24
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Bashy
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DAFlys Posted at 11-24 08:02
Sadly we cant all live nowhere.

Why would Johnny down vote you for saying that, but you're right, especially here in the UK, we don't have the vast areas close at hand like in the US for example, many live in whats called housing estates much the same as the suburbs in the US but much tighter living  spaces, the Mini 2 is a godsend, and all DJI has to do is license out the props and stop selling them in the shop, job done
2021-11-24
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Johnny_J
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Bashy Posted at 11-24 08:50
Why would Johnny down vote you for saying that, but you're right, especially here in the UK, we don't have the vast areas close at hand like in the US for example, many live in whats called housing estates much the same as the suburbs in the US but much tighter living  spaces, the Mini 2 is a godsend, and all DJI has to do is license out the props and stop selling them in the shop, job done

Why?
2021-11-24
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Mobilehomer
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Johnny_J Posted at 11-24 06:51
Yet another lengthy and boring YouTube video. A text can explain everything about this issue in 10 seconds!
All those YouTube video are also environmentally detrimental. Instead of a text file of a couple of kBytes or so with the very same information, YouTubers impose Gigabyte loads on the internet because of their self-aggrandizing needs!

Why do you even bother watching? TROLL!!!
2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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Bashy Posted at 11-24 08:50
Why would Johnny down vote you for saying that, but you're right, especially here in the UK, we don't have the vast areas close at hand like in the US for example, many live in whats called housing estates much the same as the suburbs in the US but much tighter living  spaces, the Mini 2 is a godsend, and all DJI has to do is license out the props and stop selling them in the shop, job done

Because he’s a troll.  And oddly his location changes.
2021-11-24
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Johnny_J
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DAFlys Posted at 11-24 09:18
Because he’s a troll.  And oddly his location changes.

"oddly his location changes", Yes, isn't that strange? The Chinese have 100% on-spot info about us. Yet they allow me to move! Isn't that strange?
2021-11-24
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Mavic57pro2
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DAFlys Posted at 11-24 07:59
So far we are excluded,   but give them time.

More flying, less doom and gloom please, give us all a break. Enjoy what you have, all these youtube videos you keep posting is getting tiresome. We all know how to search youtube if we want to.

Why worry about this ? Why keep on about the next drone, go and enjoy what you have, flying is fun. (Yeah I know points make prizes).
2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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Mavic57pro2 Posted at 11-24 10:13
More flying, less doom and gloom please, give us all a break. Enjoy what you have, all these youtube videos you keep posting is getting tiresome. We all know how to search youtube if we want to.

Why worry about this ? Why keep on about the next drone, go and enjoy what you have, flying is fun. (Yeah I know points make prizes).

Sorry,  I didnt know you would know to search YouTube because the rules had changed in EU.   This could make a huge difference to my future travel plans.
2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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Johnny_J Posted at 11-24 09:29
"oddly his location changes", Yes, isn't that strange? The Chinese have 100% on-spot info about us. Yet they allow me to move! Isn't that strange?

whatever.     I have my own VPN if I need to protect something like that,  and its more secure as I own all the hardware/ certificates and connections.
2021-11-24
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BWJ
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And all birds over 250 grams and with pointed beaks are banned from flying - DoooH
2021-11-24
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Blériot53
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Bashy Posted at 11-24 04:47
Sounds like the UK is ok, thank god for Brexit

At last, a point in favour of Brexit
2021-11-24
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DAFlys
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Blériot53 Posted at 11-24 15:56
At last, a point in favour of Brexit

For now Mr B,   just a matter of time until we change our rules to match Im sure.
2021-11-25
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-24 08:00
I can feel a mini3 launched like the Mavic 3 without any accessories and then they just need to print in the manual the MTOM and were good.

I will wait for a bit.
If it is really about the few grams, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.
The difference between my MP and M2 is really big (weight) so I feel much less a danger when flying with my M2.
If they won't allow the M2 because of a couple of grams, I might even be pretending I did not know
2021-11-25
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-24 08:00
I can feel a mini3 launched like the Mavic 3 without any accessories and then they just need to print in the manual the MTOM and were good.

PS, check this thread.
https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=253397

It looks like one of the DJI staff stepped in and gave a tiny bit of real insight.
I wish they would do this more often.
2021-11-25
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Mavic57pro2
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DAFlys Posted at 11-25 00:13
For now Mr B,   just a matter of time until we change our rules to match Im sure.

On a positive note, we won't.
2021-11-25
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DAFlys
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Mavic57pro2 Posted at 11-25 00:59
On a positive note, we won't.

We do have a very wide ranging agreement with the EU to align many areas.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/strate ... ration-agreement_en



2021-11-25
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DAFlys
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-25 00:47
I will wait for a bit.
If it is really about the few grams, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.
The difference between my MP and M2 is really big (weight) so I feel much less a danger when flying with my M2.

Thats all we can do for now,   wait and see.   But it was interesting that EASA confirmed to Hendrik they were ready to classify products.
2021-11-25
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DAFlys
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-25 00:52
PS, check this thread.
https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=253397

Oh wow. thats really good to see.   we need more of that.
2021-11-25
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Bashy
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-25 00:52
PS, check this thread.
https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=253397

That is a nice surprise, good to see some active participation from the R&D team
2021-11-25
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No Original Thought
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This video (and EASA's response, to a certain extent) ignores the fact that aircraft can have multiple different MTOW defined for different categories of flight, and that these definitions can be changed over time.

Take a look at this W&B sheet for a PA28, for example:

PA28 Weight and Balance Envelope

PA28 Weight and Balance Envelope


(image from EuroGA)

It shows two things very clearly.

1. In the bottom right corner you can see that the graph was updated a year after it was first published in the PoH (aircraft equivalent of the user manual).

2. The graph shows two horizontal lines which represent the MTOW. The top line (the top of the envelope) is the MTOW for the general category, ie most flights, and the horizontal line through the middle of teh envelope is te MTOW for the 'Utility' category of flight.

The envelope shown on the graph shows the wieght and CofG limits within which the aircraft can be legally flown in teh two categories of flight.

DJI could easily add this information to the user manual if they wanted to make this undisputable. Simply specify the MTOW for A1 category as being <250g (as the law requires) and specify the actual, physical, demonstrated MTOW of the aircraft as the MTOW for the A3/other/general category.

That way you would stay legal if you kept the weight of your Mini 2 below 250g when flying in the A3 category.

As it is, the MTOW is not specified in the user manual, from what I can see, so this would remain a grey area as EASA claim that it is the published MTOW that the law is based on (then they make a statement that the Mini 2 would not be allowed in A1 after the transition, despite the MTOW not being specified!).

CAA have aligned with EASA in many ways, but EASA has always allowed for member states' own interpretations to over-rule the general rules within that state (take the IMC rating for UK pilots, for example, which had no equivalent under EASA but was still valid in the UK for flights within the UK).

So it's down to DJI to cliarify in their user manual, local aviation authorities to interpret EASA's rules in a sensibel way, or for some unlucky Mini 2 pilot to take it to court and prove it one way or another through case law (though that would likely be state specific as well!).

-N.O.T.
2021-11-25
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-25 01:48
Thats all we can do for now,   wait and see.   But it was interesting that EASA confirmed to Hendrik they were ready to classify products.

Wait and fly
I take his video's with a grain of salt.
Quite a bit of bold statements and funny faces.
Not saying it is not true, but it does not really make a difference.
As long as DJI (or any other manufacturer) does not release a classified drone that is.
2021-11-25
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Montfrooij
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DAFlys Posted at 11-25 01:48
Oh wow. thats really good to see.   we need more of that.

Exactly.
I have not seen that very often lately (like in the last few years).
But then again, I'm not checking all the threads, so maybe it happens more often.
2021-11-25
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Montfrooij
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Bashy Posted at 11-25 02:22
That is a nice surprise, good to see some active participation from the R&D team

Exactly!
2021-11-25
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Montfrooij
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No Original Thought Posted at 11-25 02:29
This video (and EASA's response, to a certain extent) ignores the fact that aircraft can have multiple different MTOW defined for different categories of flight, and that these definitions can be changed over time.

Take a look at this W&B sheet for a PA28, for example:

Good point
2021-11-25
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DAFlys
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No Original Thought Posted at 11-25 02:29
This video (and EASA's response, to a certain extent) ignores the fact that aircraft can have multiple different MTOW defined for different categories of flight, and that these definitions can be changed over time.

Take a look at this W&B sheet for a PA28, for example:

I’m sure they will do what they did for the Mavic 3. Release a mini 3 with MTOM defined and not sell accessories in Europe.   EASA has put the responsibility on the manufacturer to define the MTOM.
2021-11-25
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DAFlys
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-25 02:52
Wait and fly  
I take his video's with a grain of salt.
Quite a bit of bold statements and funny faces.

Well he did show bits from the EADA email exchange. But for now all we can do is wait.
2021-11-25
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DAFlys
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Montfrooij Posted at 11-25 02:52
Exactly.
I have not seen that very often lately (like in the last few years).
But then again, I'm not checking all the threads, so maybe it happens more often.

The R&D accounts don’t seem to post very much like that it seems.
2021-11-25
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Blériot53
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DAFlys Posted at 11-25 00:13
For now Mr B,   just a matter of time until we change our rules to match Im sure.

I wonder how long it will be before they bring back the death penalty for just owning a drone...
2021-11-25
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DAFlys
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Blériot53 Posted at 11-25 04:07
I wonder how long it will be before they bring back the death penalty for just owning a drone...

Lol.  Don’t give them ideas.
2021-11-25
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