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Serious Exposure Bug FW01.00.1000
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CloudVisual
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I really didn't want to upgrade the Mavic 3 FW, but felt there were too many positives outweighing the negatives. Really regeting it now though.

Didn't for a second think that I'd be seeing my exposure AUTOMATICALLY change between frames when I shoot full manual. I thought I might have accidentlaly changed settings, but doubted that given the shot wasn't finished. I took the SRT file and went through a couple of clips frame by frame and it's clear that the settings never change, but the exposure did.

I have found three clips where this has happened now and this is seriously bad. It's fixable in post, but I don't want to have to go through all my videos and have to explain to an editor that there's issues that need correcting.

Without sensationalising this, it's a serious bug. DJI needs to find out what's happening here because manual exposure should never change automatically.

Here's my findings. Please make sure the video is playing back in 4K so that you can clearly see the exposure information at the bottom of the screen.


1-16 05:02
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Hallmark007
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If the exposure changes because of the light you wont ever see changes in your preset settings. Using a full manual setting will require you to change the settings to compensate for changes in the elements. A slight opening of a cloud sudden burst of sun will always change the physical exposure and to correct this you need to change your settings.

All photographers that use full manual control outdoors will constantly be tweaking their settings. If conditions are constantly changing it’s probably best to use one or more settings in auto.

Your exposure most likely changed because of the elements .
1-16 09:04
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@CloudVisual, Can this be recreated consistently in a control environment?  If a bug I would think so.  Otherwise I would think environmental as @Hallmark007 notes.
1-16 09:13
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CloudVisual
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Hallmark007 Posted at 1-16 09:04
If the exposure changes because of the light you wont ever see changes in your preset settings. Using a full manual setting will require you to change the settings to compensate for changes in the elements. A slight opening of a cloud sudden burst of sun will always change the physical exposure and to correct this you need to change your settings.

All photographers that use full manual control outdoors will constantly be tweaking their settings. If conditions are constantly changing it’s probably best to use one or more settings in auto.

There's no sun burst because it was shot in the blue hour, the whole frame changed exposure instantly by a clear quarter of a stop.

I would be laughed off of most of my jobs if I filmed in auto settings. I've worked in film/tv for long enough, filmed years of footage in every conceivable lighting condition. I know an exposure step when I see one.


1-16 09:14
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CloudVisual
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TonyPHX Posted at 1-16 09:13
@CloudVisual, Can this be recreated consistently in a control environment?  If a bug I would think so.  Otherwise I would think environmental as @Hallmark007 notes.

I have another clip where this happened. Clear jump in exposure across the whole scene in a blue hour shot.
1-16 09:15
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CloudVisual Posted at 1-16 09:14
There's no sun burst because it was shot in the blue hour, the whole frame changed exposure instantly by a clear quarter of a stop.

I would be laughed off of most of my jobs if I filmed in auto settings. I've worked in film/tv for long enough, filmed years of footage in every conceivable lighting condition. I know an exposure step when I see one.

It takes very little for exposure to change even the slightest movement of clouds and it certainly will never change preset settings, how would it , I would almost never use full manual with a drone I don’t have this experience with mine on latest FW . Changing a 1/4 of a stop is no great difficulty but I don’t believe that has anything to do with FW updates, I’m sure we would have seen this by now. But who knows.
1-16 09:26
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CloudVisual
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Hallmark007 Posted at 1-16 09:26
It takes very little for exposure to change even the slightest movement of clouds and it certainly will never change preset settings, how would it , I would almost never use full manual with a drone I don’t have this experience with mine on latest FW . Changing a 1/4 of a stop is no great difficulty but I don’t believe that has anything to do with FW updates, I’m sure we would have seen this by now. But who knows.

The fact you "almost never" use full manual pretty much confirms that your advice isn't going to hold much merit in this topic and issue.
1-16 09:29
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CloudVisual Posted at 1-16 09:29
The fact you "almost never" use full manual pretty much confirms that your advice isn't going to hold much merit in this topic and issue.

I think if you couldn’t or never allowed for changes in conditions shows just how unprofessional you are. I thing these days almost 95% of all photographers will opt to use some auto modes when shooting stills or video and the fact that you don’t know this reflects on you not me. It’s you that has the problem not me so carry on you’re obviously looking for others to agree with your jaundiced views.
1-16 09:36
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CloudVisual
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Hallmark007 Posted at 1-16 09:36
I think if you couldn’t or never allowed for changes in conditions shows just how unprofessional you are. I thing these days almost 95% of all photographers will opt to use some auto modes when shooting stills or video and the fact that you don’t know this reflects on you not me. It’s you that has the problem not me so carry on you’re obviously looking for others to agree with your jaundiced views.

Didn't say that I don't use auto for stills. It's actually easier in some situations. For video though, it's a sure fire way to look terrible and certainly a great way to indicate you have no idea what you're doing.

I'm not looking for someone to agree with me, I'm just looking for someone to understand the issue with enough experience and knowledge. If you film in auto modes you're clearly not up to that level.
1-16 09:38
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CloudVisual
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TonyPHX Posted at 1-16 09:13
@CloudVisual, Can this be recreated consistently in a control environment?  If a bug I would think so.  Otherwise I would think environmental as @Hallmark007 notes.

@TonyPHX

Here's the same issue again. Interestingly almost the exact same frame count at the issue (frames 631/632)


This is not normal. The whole scene instantly brightens by a quarter stop.
1-16 09:41
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CloudVisual Posted at 1-16 09:38
Didn't say that I don't use auto for stills. It's actually easier in some situations. For video though, it's a sure fire way to look terrible and certainly a great way to indicate you have no idea what you're doing.

I'm not looking for someone to agree with me, I'm just looking for someone to understand the issue with enough experience and knowledge. If you film in auto modes you're clearly not up to that level.

If you film in auto modes you're clearly not up to that level.


The fact that you don’t realise that nearly every professional and amateur cameraman bar none use auto modes with every camera film and photo is actually showing how little you are aware of this. So you’re not insulting me you’re are just showing how little you know.

Flying drones in the sky where the exposure is constantly changing , trying to manually compensate will lead to exactly what you posted and blaming it on FW update is a folly.
1-16 09:57
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CloudVisual
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Hallmark007 Posted at 1-16 09:57
If you film in auto modes you're clearly not up to that level.

OK buddy, I'm sure you've got countless TV and film credits under your belt to back that statement up.
1-16 10:00
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CloudVisual Posted at 1-16 10:00
OK buddy, I'm sure you've got countless TV and film credits under your belt to back that statement up.

I don’t need to back up anything. But I know how film and stills photographers use their equipment and I also know just how good some auto modes are. And I’m fully aware what changes exposure and it’s not firmware.
1-16 10:06
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@CloudVisual - I think this deserves to be looked into more.  I took an interest in this thread because I have also suffered with my exposure changes during filming.  I am not as well versed on the mechanics of filming as you and others.  I will be more aware of this.  

If this is happening consistently within the same range of frames and is independent of external influences, then it may be something camera system related.   Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
1-16 11:07
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CloudVisual
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TonyPHX Posted at 1-16 11:07
@CloudVisual - I think this deserves to be looked into more.  I took an interest in this thread because I have also suffered with my exposure changes during filming.  I am not as well versed on the mechanics of filming as you and others.  I will be more aware of this.  

If this is happening consistently within the same range of frames and is independent of external influences, then it may be something camera system related.   Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

I've forwarded the findings to DJI, who seem to have taken an interest.  

I'm out today and going to attempt to repeat the issue.
1-17 01:38
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CloudVisual Posted at 1-17 01:38
I've forwarded the findings to DJI, who seem to have taken an interest.  

I'm out today and going to attempt to repeat the issue.

Suggestion:

1. Use AutoExposure
2. Adjust EV if necessary and/or ND filter if necessary
3. Use the Exposure Lock if necessary

1-17 03:12
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It's laughable to see so many comments recommending to use auto exposure, wow. This is clearly a software issue / bug, nothing else. It get's even more obvious because it happened at the same frame count in a different video! Or was that just another "sun burst"?
Looking forward to the response of DJI.
1-17 03:55
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CloudVisual
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DroneApe Posted at 1-17 03:12
Suggestion:

1. Use AutoExposure

Why on earth would I shoot in auto and then lock the exposure when manual mode does exactly that? Let me assure you that I am never going to film in auto because I want the frame rate locked so my exposure remains exactly the same throughout the shot I’m taking. I’m not fixing this issue by solving it with AEL - utterly amateur and not what’s happening here.

If people want to profess that “pros shoot in auto” they need to go talk to a real professional and learn a lesson about cinematography.

For anyone else who wants to suggest that auto is the answer, honestly don’t bother commenting.
1-17 04:03
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oberschneider.com Posted at 1-17 03:55
It's laughable to see so many comments recommending to use auto exposure, wow. This is clearly a software issue / bug, nothing else. It get's even more obvious because it happened at the same frame count in a different video! Or was that just another "sun burst"?
Looking forward to the response of DJI.

Pleased to finally see some professional input here!

I've been out filming all morning and I'll be taking a close look at the footage. I want to find this issue again, but I also don't...
1-17 04:52
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I reviewed your video's. There is clearly something going on there. I went back and read the replies after watching the videos. This is so very obviously not environmental. The entire frame, corner to corner is shifting up in exposure. You mention its about a quarter of a stop and I think that looks to be about right. Is the shift in exposure always up? Have you ever noticed it dropping a quarter of a stop instead ? Just curious. Look forward to DJI's response as well.
1-17 05:53
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CloudVisual Posted at 1-17 04:03
Why on earth would I shoot in auto and then lock the exposure when manual mode does exactly that? Let me assure you that I am never going to film in auto because I want the frame rate locked so my exposure remains exactly the same throughout the shot I’m taking. I’m not fixing this issue by solving it with AEL - utterly amateur and not what’s happening here.

If people want to profess that “pros shoot in auto” they need to go talk to a real professional and learn a lesson about cinematography.

I've worked on numerous Film and TV shows , There's no way a professional crew will use auto settings on a shoot .
1-17 07:00
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fans9b67e766 Posted at 1-17 07:00
I've worked on numerous Film and TV shows , There's no way a professional crew will use auto settings on a shoot .

Well this is an online forum. This is very typical of what happens, not just in drone forums but in most any forum that centers around a profession/hobby. You have those who just love to argue and debate technical stuff yet they produce nothing and are purely a hobbyist. Then you have actual professionals who work in the industry and actually create and produce stuff. The fact that the OP even picked up on this shift in exposure suggests how detailed his workflow is. Your average drone pilot would never catch this exposure shift, because a quarter stop exposure change is very subtle, especially at full speed.

Ignore the ignorance. More often than not, in a forum like this, it is the case of  the least among them is the loudest among them. On my photography community I used to run this was often the case; that the least skilled photographer was often the most vocal - often trying to critique someone who was well out of their league.
1-17 08:05
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The really odd thing is, one frame only. If it was enviromental, it would affect several frames, not just one. If it was storage media it would also be more than one frame. If firmware, I would also think more than one frame. Since it is happening at almost the same time, could it be an issue with the camera itself? Does it happen at again in the same video at about the same interval?
1-17 08:31
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Mobilehomer Posted at 1-17 08:31
The really odd thing is, one frame only. If it was enviromental, it would affect several frames, not just one. If it was storage media it would also be more than one frame. If firmware, I would also think more than one frame. Since it is happening at almost the same time, could it be an issue with the camera itself? Does it happen at again in the same video at about the same interval?

Well, from what I see in the clips, its not just a single frame where the exposure spikes and then corrects. It is spiking and then appears to stay at the new exposure for the duration of the clips. This isnt what rules out the environmental cause. What rules out the environmental cause is the very clear and even shift of exposure across the entire frame. It is completely uniform. If the exposure shifted due to natural light it would present much differently in the footage than this. This shift is as if the aperture or iso has been toggled, yet the user is in full manual and made no change.
1-17 09:01
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TonyPHX
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Glad to hear that DJI has taken an interest and can look into this!  
1-17 09:04
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CloudVisual
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Tornado12 Posted at 1-17 05:53
I reviewed your video's. There is clearly something going on there. I went back and read the replies after watching the videos. This is so very obviously not environmental. The entire frame, corner to corner is shifting up in exposure. You mention its about a quarter of a stop and I think that looks to be about right. Is the shift in exposure always up? Have you ever noticed it dropping a quarter of a stop instead ? Just curious. Look forward to DJI's response as well.

I completely agree and I'm glad you see that it's a whole shift up in exposure across the entire frame, not a gradual one which would usually be seen due to the sun and a tilting gimbal.

It's always been an increase in exposure. This is very new to me, I'm fresh on the new .1000 FW and this footage was actually taken on the maiden flight after upgrading.
1-17 09:24
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fans9b67e766 Posted at 1-17 07:00
I've worked on numerous Film and TV shows , There's no way a professional crew will use auto settings on a shoot .

Tell that to @Hallmark007! He's apparently in with all the professionals who shoot in auto.
1-17 09:26
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Tornado12 Posted at 1-17 09:01
Well, from what I see in the clips, its not just a single frame where the exposure spikes and then corrects. It is spiking and then appears to stay at the new exposure for the duration of the clips. This isnt what rules out the environmental cause. What rules out the environmental cause is the very clear and even shift of exposure across the entire frame. It is completely uniform. If the exposure shifted due to natural light it would present much differently in the footage than this. This shift is as if the aperture or iso has been toggled, yet the user is in full manual and made no change.

Worth me saying, aperture, exposure and ISO shifts actually take several frames to dial in. I've spent far too long looking at frame by frame footage and whenever I've changed my exposure it doesn't happen in a single frame.

Update from me, I've not been able to reproduce this today. It was prime for environmental issues, given the broken cloud and low sun, but just couldn't make it happen. The only thing I didn't do was shoot at ISO 200 which the others were at. I'm out again tomorrow and Thursday, so more time to test and check.

Also, DJI now have both clips and SRT files to investigate.
1-17 10:54
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oberschneider.com Posted at 1-17 03:55
It's laughable to see so many comments recommending to use auto exposure, wow. This is clearly a software issue / bug, nothing else. It get's even more obvious because it happened at the same frame count in a different video! Or was that just another "sun burst"?
Looking forward to the response of DJI.

I don’t think many have advocated full auto exposure, so while you’re finding it laughable many of your own drones don’t offer full manual. And I’m sure you wouldn’t believe that the work produced through these semi auto drones is not laughable. It’s not about full auto exposure. The OP has the drone over a year are you saying its caused by general software or just last firmware/software update ?
1-17 14:04
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fans9b67e766 Posted at 1-17 07:00
I've worked on numerous Film and TV shows , There's no way a professional crew will use auto settings on a shoot .

You do know that almost all drone videos in this class and including professional drones use a fixed auto focus when videoing , some two men operated drones will use manual focus or zoom manually but most of the time with these small drones apart from shooting photos, continuous auto focus will be used, you can use tap to focus but try using it on any fast moving subject and you'll soon see why auto focus is preferred from the air.
Someone like Tornado who purports to be a professional and tries to ridicule others about not producing any work and at the same time nobody here has seen a scintilla of his work, his flight time shows he has flown less than most people fly in a day or a weekend. Uses semi auto only drones, yet his criticism of others are based on nothing but talk from himself, he's just describing himself here. There are many professionals using auto modes whether by design or because their drones don’t offer full manual it does not make them any less professional because they can achieve better results using aperture or shutter priority or auto focus.
This thread was and is about the exposure so lets see whether FW hardware conditions or controller caused the problem.
1-18 00:34
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CloudVisual Posted at 1-17 10:54
Worth me saying, aperture, exposure and ISO shifts actually take several frames to dial in. I've spent far too long looking at frame by frame footage and whenever I've changed my exposure it doesn't happen in a single frame.

Update from me, I've not been able to reproduce this today. It was prime for environmental issues, given the broken cloud and low sun, but just couldn't make it happen. The only thing I didn't do was shoot at ISO 200 which the others were at. I'm out again tomorrow and Thursday, so more time to test and check.

Its quite obvious you know what your talking about . I hope DJI can sort out this bug for you . Happy Professional flying.
1-18 02:51
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Hallmark007 Posted at 1-18 00:34
You do know that almost all drone videos in this class and including professional drones use a fixed auto focus when videoing , some two men operated drones will use manual focus or zoom manually but most of the time with these small drones apart from shooting photos, continuous auto focus will be used, you can use tap to focus but try using it on any fast moving subject and you'll soon see why auto focus is preferred from the air.
Someone like Tornado who purports to be a professional and tries to ridicule others about not producing any work and at the same time nobody here has seen a scintilla of his work, his flight time shows he has flown less than most people fly in a day or a weekend. Uses semi auto only drones, yet his criticism of others are based on nothing but talk from himself, he's just describing himself here. There are many professionals using auto modes whether by design or because their drones don’t offer full manual it does not make them any less professional because they can achieve better results using aperture or shutter priority or auto focus.
This thread was and is about the exposure so lets see whether FW hardware conditions or controller caused the problem.

Stop derailing peoples threads with your constant nagging and bs. God you can be so obnoxious. Do you not realize how obnoxious you come off to people? The guy posted a legitimate issue, provided good evidence, and your first post you brought up environmental issues, as if he as a professional isn't aware of sunlight, but fair enough, nothing wrong with suggesting maybe it was environment, but once he rebutted your theory, you immediately started personally attacking him. You are an incredibly insecure man. You talk to professionals from a position of authority, as if you are superior in knowledge, yet you often, quite frankly, have the lowest IQ posts I read on here. Your posts suggest you have no actual professional experience in photography or videography. There is nothing wrong with that , but don't come spouting off ignorant stuff with authority to professionals who actually work in the industry. No I am not referring to myself as I do not work in the industry. I do not consider myself a professional anymore. I was a professional photographer, not a videographer. You seem to be so insecure that you don't even have the self awareness to realize how you come off on these forums. I mean go back and read this thread over again and read your replies. Its just cringeworthy as you start attacking a guy for simply stating that his issue is a bug, and provides pretty clear evidence.

Anyways Im done addressing you on this. Hopefully the thread can get back on topic.

1-18 08:45
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Tornado12 Posted at 1-18 08:45
Stop derailing peoples threads with your constant nagging and bs. God you can be so obnoxious. Do you not realize how obnoxious you come off to people? The guy posted a legitimate issue, provided good evidence, and your first post you brought up environmental issues, as if he as a professional isn't aware of sunlight, but fair enough, nothing wrong with suggesting maybe it was environment, but once he rebutted your theory, you immediately started personally attacking him. You are an incredibly insecure man. You talk to professionals from a position of authority, as if you are superior in knowledge, yet you often, quite frankly, have the lowest IQ posts I read on here. Your posts suggest you have no actual professional experience in photography or videography. There is nothing wrong with that , but don't come spouting off ignorant stuff with authority to professionals who actually work in the industry. No I am not referring to myself as I do not work in the industry. I do not consider myself a professional anymore. I was a professional photographer, not a videographer. You seem to be so insecure that you don't even have the self awareness to realize how you come off on these forums. I mean go back and read this thread over again and read your replies. Its just cringeworthy as you start attacking a guy for simply stating that his issue is a bug, and provides pretty clear evidence.

Anyways Im done addressing you on this. Hopefully the thread can get back on topic.

The only one derailing this thread is you. But you always feel it important to rubbish others comments and never failing to tell everyone you’re a professional, “according to you and only you” so please refrain from commenting about me if you don’t want to get a reply. And I’m certain if the OP knew the answer he would not have posted to ask if this was a FW problem. Something you ignored in your answers.

I never attacked anyone but you are too ignorant to read the posts because if you did you would have seen it was the op who actually blew off my suggestion and was completely rude in doing it.

And it’s quite obvious that you know very little about videoing from your conclusions. But let’s see what caused it . Professional photographer “well nothing to show for it “ so we’ll have to take your word for it.
1-18 09:24
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CloudVisual Posted at 1-17 10:54
Worth me saying, aperture, exposure and ISO shifts actually take several frames to dial in. I've spent far too long looking at frame by frame footage and whenever I've changed my exposure it doesn't happen in a single frame.

Update from me, I've not been able to reproduce this today. It was prime for environmental issues, given the broken cloud and low sun, but just couldn't make it happen. The only thing I didn't do was shoot at ISO 200 which the others were at. I'm out again tomorrow and Thursday, so more time to test and check.

If this is indeed some type of firmware bug as we suspect I would think you could reproduce the issue indoors in a controlled environment, without needing to go out and be in flight. Have you tried setting up a controlled test like this? This may be more effort than is worth but if you were to nail down exactly what setting or parameter causes it to trigger that might be interesting to learn.

Ill check back for your conclusion when you get something from DJI as I am just curious what the issue is. I would lean to a firmware issue at present, unless the issue is some fluke that is relegated to your drone specifically.
1-18 10:19
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Tornado12 Posted at 1-18 10:19
If this is indeed some type of firmware bug as we suspect I would think you could reproduce the issue indoors in a controlled environment, without needing to go out and be in flight. Have you tried setting up a controlled test like this? This may be more effort than is worth but if you were to nail down exactly what setting or parameter causes it to trigger that might be interesting to learn.

Ill check back for your conclusion when you get something from DJI as I am just curious what the issue is. I would lean to a firmware issue at present, unless the issue is some fluke that is relegated to your drone specifically.

Also looking forward to seeing the outcome. Makes perfect sense to me, just can't see why this objective suggestion received a 'downvote'...
1-18 13:19
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I really hate when threads turn into the contentious back and forth.  This seems to be a recurring problem here.
1-18 23:31
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Hi to all, I also have seen this in videos.
Is strange that was a issue also in Photo in FULL MANUAL mode, I have seen in Hyperlapse one photo that have a totally different exposure (higher) then the rest...and this exposure increase was repeated at an interval almost equal to another photos.
So I believe is an issue related to software or a problem related to voltage on sensor, as we all PRO people know very well how a slight variation of voltage in sensor is shifting the exposure. (more or less, some AUTO guys will not be in this).
As for comments related to full Auto, I do not expect anything more from some people. In our job need to be a big idiot to use AUTO in a contracted video, as you have all chances to re-make the recordings. So...all MANUAL...ALL!!! Even the drone movements!
Let's keep this in DJI attention in order to be analyzed and fixed....remember that also fogging of Mini 3 Pro was not an admitted issue...until more than 30% returned.
1-19 03:45
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Update from DJI.

They have contacted me today after I submitted the video and SRT files and they have advised me to downgrade my firmware. They've also given me some credit on my account for the inconvenience, which was a very kind gesture.

I've asked DJI if their team has isolated the issue and if there's a likely FW update, as I don't want to lose the features that this new FW gave, such as the EXP/Brake tuning, which has been so desperately needed all this time. I'll let you know what they say.

So... I'm delighted to say that the issue I raised has been acknowledged by DJI as a potential bug.

To those of you who chimed in on this thread, offering nothing but criticism of my findings and amateur advice: This exposed your utter ignorance, right in the face of those who actually know a thing or two about cameras and were correct in spotting the issue.
1-19 10:00
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That's good news! And the quick response by DJI clearly shows that this is an issue they take seriously.
1-19 10:46
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CloudVisual Posted at 1-19 10:00
Update from DJI.

They have contacted me today after I submitted the video and SRT files and they have advised me to downgrade my firmware. They've also given me some credit on my account for the inconvenience, which was a very kind gesture.

Thats good news, so it seems they might push out an update if they advised you to downgrade to temporarily fix the issue.
1-19 11:29
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