One of my friend sent me two RAW images shot with his Mavic 3 Pro, and asked me what are those strange patterns on the red roofs. The images were shot with 24mm main camera. The strange pattern on the red roofs look like moiré pattern to me.

The CMOS for Mavic 3 Pro's main camera is Sony IMX 272. I suspect it does not have an anti-aliasing filter. Some software algorithm is required to remove moiré patterns for images captured in certain situation. This looks like a bug in the software, failed to remove moiré patterns.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                      
These unusual patterns show up in images captured in both DNG and JPG format.
  
Admin, please notify DJI's engineering team to fix this bug asap.




Link to original RAW files in Google Drive:
DNG file 1

DNG File 2

Wow.  That's not right.  Thanks for finding this and identifying to DJI!!

We can't tell much from  the image you posted.
Can you upload the original file to Google Drive or similar and post a link?

Labroides Posted at 5-1 20:04
We can't tell much from  the image you posted.
Can you upload the original file to Google Drive or similar and post a link?

See updated post with links to Google drive files.

Looks like Moiré. I've had this happen on my Mavic 3 Cine when shooting skiers on a freshly groomed piste with the fine lines on the snow.

Hi, jerryway. Thanks for notifying us about this concern. We're sorry for any inconvenience caused. We will have these forwarded to the related team for further checking. We'll keep you posted. Thank you.

DJI Tony Posted at 5-1 21:10
Hi, jerryway. Thanks for notifying us about this concern. We're sorry for any inconvenience caused. We will have these forwarded to the related team for further checking. We'll keep you posted. Thank you.

Please make sure to send them RAW (DNG) files for investigation.
By the way, I have been using the original Mavic 3 for the last 18 months, and shoot tens of thousands of aerial images. I never had this problem with Mavic 3.

jerryway Posted at 5-1 20:11
See updated post with links to Google drive files.

The biggest roof in those examples is less than 1% of the original image.
I wouldn't expect good detail of roof tiles to show from 500 metres up with a wideangle lens.
I think I'll wait to see how it looks in actual use before getting too excited.

Labroides Posted at 5-1 22:03
The biggest roof in those examples is less than 1% of the original image.
I wouldn't expect good detail of roof tiles to show from 500 metres up with a wideangle lens.
I think I'll wait to see how it looks in actual use before getting too excited.

No need to gloss over such an obvious defect.

There is actually good amount of details on the red roofs in the processed image, when zoomed in at 100%. Claiming no detail by looking at unprocessed RAW does not make any sense. The size of the moiré patterns are gigantic, compared to the size of the roofs. This is completely unacceptable.

I have been shooting with the original Mavic 3 for 18 months, and never see any moiré pattern shot with that drone.

As comparison, here is one sample image shot with Mavic 3, cropped, and zoomed in at 100% as well. Red roofs with similar repeated textures, but without any moiré pattern. The difference is night and day.

jerryway Posted at 5-1 22:41
No need to gloss over such an obvious defect.

There is actually good amount of details on the red roofs in the processed image, when zoomed in at 100%. Claiming no detail by looking at unprocessed RAW does not make any sense. The size of the moiré patterns are gigantic, compared to the size of the roofs. This is completely unacceptable.

Claiming no detail by looking at unprocessed RAW does not make any sense.
I didn't do that or make that claim.

As comparison, here is one sample image shot with Mavic 3, cropped, and zoomed in at 100% as well. Red roofs with similar repeated textures, but without any moiré pattern.
Not a great comparison - more like apples and watermelons.
Your drone was much closer than the 500 metres height of the sample image that this post is about.

Moire can occur on most modern digital cameras, also professional and expensive cameras.
Early digital camera had an AA (anti-aliasing) filter to prevent moire, but at the cost of sharpness.
Now most cameras do not have a filter, and then moire is more likely to occur.
Manufacturers try to solve the problem in software, and if an image is shot in jpg the internal processing removes the artifacts of moire, more or less successfully.
This can not be done internally with a raw file, because a raw file is an unprocessed image, like an exposed, but not yet developed
negative. If it were to be processed in camera, it would no longer be a raw file.
That is why most manufacurers have an option in their raw converter to remove moire. For example Nikon, which I know best, has an effective
moire removal option in their NX Studio raw converter.

DJI does not make a raw converter, instead they rely on the open DNG-format. That is a good choice.
Some raw converters, like newer versions of Adobe Camera Raw, has an option to remove moire from DNG-files.

Moire is unavoidable in some situations where repeatable patterns in the subject and the pattern and resolution in the image sensor causes interference.
It can often be seen in television if a person wears a patterned shirt, for example.
Often it can be avoided by moving the camera or the angle, and in the example image it could be enough to lower the drone closer to the roofs.
This may have prevented moire. Or maybe not. With a different lighting you may not have seen moire. It happens apparently a bit randomly.

The point is that DJI could easily prevented moire, either by using an AA-filter, or making a "softer" lens with less reolution. But nobody would want that.

The best advice to use a raw converter that has the ability to recognize and reduce moire.

jerryway Posted at 5-1 21:11
Please make sure to send them RAW (DNG) files for investigation.
By the way, I have been using the original Mavic 3 for the last 18 months, and shoot tens of thousands of aerial images. I never had this problem with Mavic 3.

Yes, the original DNG files were submitted for analysis. Thank you.

Hi there. We just received feedback from our team. Mavic uses a high-spec lens with a high resolution, so when the sensor is sampled, the spatial signal beyond the Nyquist frequency in the image has already produced moiré. In addition, because of the Bayer arrangement of pixels on the sensor, the sampling frequency of the red and blue pixels is lower than that of the green pixels, thereby introducing a color moiré (pseudo-color). Pseudo-color is hard to eliminate. Selecting a lens with a poor resolution or adding an optical low-pass can reduce the monochromatic moiré, but there is no space in the micro lens to add a low-pass filter. Thanks for your understanding.

DJI Tony Posted at 5-3 04:48
Hi there. We just received feedback from our team. Mavic uses a high-spec lens with a high resolution, so when the sensor is sampled, the spatial signal beyond the Nyquist frequency in the image has already produced moiré. In addition, because of the Bayer arrangement of pixels on the sensor, the sampling frequency of the red and blue pixels is lower than that of the green pixels, thereby introducing a color moiré (pseudo-color). Pseudo-color is hard to eliminate. Selecting a lens with a poor resolution or adding an optical low-pass can reduce the monochromatic moiré, but there is no space in the micro lens to add a low-pass filter. Thanks for your understanding.

Good explanation, DJI Tony.

DJI Tony Posted at 5-3 04:48
Hi there. We just received feedback from our team. Mavic uses a high-spec lens with a high resolution, so when the sensor is sampled, the spatial signal beyond the Nyquist frequency in the image has already produced moiré. In addition, because of the Bayer arrangement of pixels on the sensor, the sampling frequency of the red and blue pixels is lower than that of the green pixels, thereby introducing a color moiré (pseudo-color). Pseudo-color is hard to eliminate. Selecting a lens with a poor resolution or adding an optical low-pass can reduce the monochromatic moiré, but there is no space in the micro lens to add a low-pass filter. Thanks for your understanding.

So this problem is by design. Without a low pass filter, moire patterns are bound to happen in images captured under certain situations.

Maybe DJI should publish a tutorial on the website, to teach users how to remove moire patterns in images captured by Mavic 3 Pro?

Moire is a common issue on most modern digital cameras. Google it, and you'll find lots of tutorials you want.

Estelle Lau Posted at 5-3 19:14
Moire is a common issue on most modern digital cameras. Google it, and you'll find lots of tutorials you want.

I respectively disagree. Moire is only a common issue for digital cameras without anti-aliasing (AA) filters. And a significant modern digital cameras, if not the most, still have AA filters, so moire pattern is NOT a common problem.

First the Canon. I have been using various digital cameras from Canon over the years, and shoot tens of thousands of images. I never experienced the moire problem in a single image. Because most Canon cameras have anti-aliasing filters built-in, including the latest mirrorless offerings, R5 & R6.

When I searched Nikon cameras with AA filters, I found the following list:

D7000, D5200, D3200
D3, D4, D5, D6
D600, D610, Df
D750, D780, D800
Z6 (and ii), Z5

So a significant portion of Nikon cameras are built with AA filters as well, including the iconic D800.

For Sony cameras, "R"models (A7R, A7R II, A7R II, A7R IV) do not have AA filters, but all the rest do (e.g., A7 II, A7 III, A7 IV).

For Fujifilm cameras, their X-Trans sensor's unique color organization eliminates moiré patterns without the use of AA filter.

As for DJI's drone cameras, I have been shooting with Mavic, Mavic 2 Pro, Mavic 2S, and Mavic 3, for the last 6 years. I never experienced the moire patterns in images captured with these drones. I am quite surprised that moire pattern is now a problem with Mavic 3 Pro.

And yes, I understand there are post-processing techniques to try to remove moire patterns from the affected images. But these techniques are not perfect. They are not non-destructive, and they do not guarantee to completely remove the effect of moire. I would rather pick a camera with AA filter and never have to worry about dealing with moire problem in post-processing.

jerryway Posted at 5-3 20:21
I respectively disagree. Moire is only a common issue for digital cameras without anti-aliasing (AA) filters. And a significant modern digital cameras, if not the most, still have AA filters, so moire pattern is NOT a common problem.

First the Canon. I have been using various digital cameras from Canon over the years, and shoot tens of thousands of images. I never experienced the moire problem in a single image. Because most Canon cameras have anti-aliasing filters built-in, including the latest mirrorless offerings, R5 & R6.

I am quite surprised that moire pattern is now a problem with Mavic 3 Pro.
Is it really a problem?
Or are you jumping up and down after seeing just one image where the particular combination of subject matter and distance cause the moire pattern?
How often are you likely to shoot tiled roofs from 500 metres above them?

Labroides Posted at 5-3 21:09
I am quite surprised that moire pattern is now a problem with Mavic 3 Pro.
Is it really a problem?
Or are you jumping up and down after seeing just one image where the particular combination of subject matter and distance cause teh moire pattern?

"it really a problem?"

- Of course it is. The moire pattern is not a problem, until the moment you have to deal with it.

And claiming it only occurs when "shoot tiled roofs from 500 metres" is absurd, unless you have verifiable evidence to back up your bold statement. A quick Internet search shows moire pattern could occur at any height of the flight. Even if you took the image at close range, it still occurs. Not sure why you jump up and down trying to gloss over the issue here.

I have been shooting with the orignial Mavic, Mavic 2 Pro, Mavic Air 2S, and Mavic 3, since 2017. Out of tens of thousands of images captured, many of them aerial shots of roofs with repeated patterns, there was not a single one with moire problem.

Less than one week with Mavic 3 Pro, and now I have to deal with unusual moire patterns in post processing.

jerryway Posted at 5-3 21:31
"it really a problem?"

- Of course it is. The moire pattern is not a problem, until the moment you have to deal with it.

Of course it is. The moire pattern is not a problem, until the moment you have to deal with it.
And how much have you had to deal with this allegedly serious problem?
How much are you likely to have to deal with in future?

And claiming the moire pattern only occurs when "shoot tiled roofs from 500 metres" is absurd, unless you have verifiable evidence to back up your bold statement.
You've shown one image, taken under unusual and particular cirmstances that aren't going to occur in normal drone photography.
I haven't seen any verified evidence that this is going to actually cause problems in general use of the drone.
I'd want to see that there is actually a problem before getting overexcited about it.

I have been shooting with the orignial Mavic, Mavic 2 Pro, Mavic Air 2S, and Mavic 3, since 2017. Out of tens of thousands of images captured, many of them  aerial shots of roofs with repeated patterns, there was not a single one with moire problem.
And what distance were those shot at?
How many at 500 metres like the single example you're whipping yourself into a frenzy over?
How do you know that if you had shot all those aerial images of roofs at 500 metres, that you wouldn't have seen moire then>

Less than one week with Mavic 3 Pro, and now I have to deal with unusual moire patterns in post processing.
You have to deal with it?  How?
No .. you don't have to deal with anything.
Just wait to see if there is actually a problem

Labroides Posted at 5-3 23:55
How many at 500 metres like the single example you're whipping yourself into a frenzy over?
How do you know that if you had shot all those aerial images of roofs at 500 metres, that you wouldn't have seen moire then>

Just tried another flight. I can easily reproduce the moire pattern problem at the height less than 100m. Just look at all the wield pattern and false colors on the solar panels.  

Stop trying to gloss over the problem, and claiming it "only occur at 500 meters".

jerryway Posted at 5-4 01:21
Just tried another flight. I can easily reproduce the moire pattern problem at the height less than 100m. Just look at all the wield pattern and false colors on the solar panels.  

Stop trying to gloss over the problem, and claiming it "only occur at 500 meters".

Have you tested to confirm that this doesn't happen with the original Mavic 3?

Labroides Posted at 5-3 23:55
Of course it is. The moire pattern is not a problem, until the moment you have to deal with it.
And how much have you had to deal with this allegedly serious problem?
How much are you likely to have to deal with in future?

I think what he showed to us is a Real Problem.
And YES, Moire is a problem, as it will give you totally no-pro results.
When they make a PRO drone and this is making Moire that was not seen in lower version, stop saying that is not a issue, nobody believes you and you look like a fool.

Regards.

Geo_Drone Posted at 5-4 02:37
I think what he showed to us is a Real Problem.
And YES, Moire is a problem, as it will give you totally no-pro results.
When they make a PRO drone and this is making Moire that was not seen in lower version, stop saying that is not a issue, nobody believes you and you look like a fool.

I haven't said it's not an issue.
I've suggested that more evidence would be needed to tell if it is a problem.
I'm not going to panic over what's been shown so far.

jerryway Posted at 5-3 07:28
So this problem is by design. Without a low pass filter, moire patterns are bound to happen in images captured under certain situations.

Maybe DJI should publish a tutorial on the website, to teach users how to remove moire patterns in images captured by Mavic 3 Pro?

Simply speaking, the Moiré pattern is a manifestation of the principle of superposition. It is impossible to eliminate all Moiré patterns in all conditions. This issue can only be mitigated or removed by trying different settings and methods based on the different environments and angles.

A low-pass filter can reduce the moiré patterns, but it also affects the clarity of images and make the image blurry.  the Mavic series are aerial photography drones, we care more about the clarity of images, so we do not add the low pass filter.
To reduce Moiré patterns, you may try the methods below:

1. Change the camera angle. Because Moiré patterns may be caused by the angle of the camera and the object, slightly changing the camera angle (by moving the camera) will decrease or change the Moiré pattern.

2. Change the camera position. In addition, moving left, right, up, or down to change the angle relationship can eliminate Moiré patterns.

3. Change the focus. Having an overly sharp focus and altitude details on detailed patterns may result in Moiré patterns. Slightly changing the focus can change the sharpness and help remove Moiré patterns.

4. Change the lens focal length. Moiré patterns can be changed or eliminated by changing the focal length of a zoom lens.

5. Use image processing software to eliminate Moiré patterns on the final image.  

DJI Tony Posted at 5-4 06:07
Simply speaking, the Moiré pattern is a manifestation of the principle of superposition. It is impossible to eliminate all Moiré patterns in all conditions. This issue can only be mitigated or removed by trying different settings and methods based on the different environments and angles.

A low-pass filter can reduce the moiré patterns, but it also affects the clarity of images and make the image blurry.  the Mavic series are aerial photography drones, we care more about the clarity of images, so we do not add the low pass filter.

You’ll find a lot of the “pros” around here want everything perfect no matter what drone or camera they use. Having to control something like moire is something that might be foreign to these “pros” although many camera lenses used in so many cameras produce moire that needs to be controlled when shooting and in post, one thing you can be sure of is the “pros” will not accept that they can increase moire due to how they shoot and conditions.

I will say example above is particularly bad.

DJI Tony Posted at 5-4 06:07
Simply speaking, the Moiré pattern is a manifestation of the principle of superposition. It is impossible to eliminate all Moiré patterns in all conditions. This issue can only be mitigated or removed by trying different settings and methods based on the different environments and angles.

A low-pass filter can reduce the moiré patterns, but it also affects the clarity of images and make the image blurry.  the Mavic series are aerial photography drones, we care more about the clarity of images, so we do not add the low pass filter.

Dear Tony,

We appreciate the advices, still what is seen is excessive moire effect...I could not agree more that any poor camera that does not have Low Pass filters and also have poor optics (not HQ glass) will produce Moire...also Moire will be bigger as the pixels in sensor are bigger....Why Mavic 3 Pro does not have a Low Pass filter in it....probably as will rise production costs, do not try to tell is softening the picture, as modern cameras produce sharp pictures with OLPF installed.
Also using an old Sony sensor IMX272 is not helping, as every photographer (at least ones that are real Photographers) knows that GH5 camera that had this IMX 272 sensor produced the worst Moire and Aliasing ever, a lot higher than GH4.
In this position is now also the Mavic 3 Pro...that simple.

New sensor : new problems.
Too bad this was not picked up (or given priority)

Montfrooij Posted at 5-6 12:17
New sensor : new problems.
Too bad this was not picked up (or given priority)

New sensor : new problems.
How can you be sure this is a new problem?
It's the same camera and the same sensor that's been in use for over a year on the original Mavic 3.
It's doesn't seem to have caused many complaints before.

Labroides Posted at 5-6 17:54
New sensor : new problems.
How can you be sure this is a new problem?
It's the same camera and the same sensor that's been in use for over a year on the original Mavic 3.

It is not a new sensor right now.
But this specific technique did cause new problems when it was introduced.
And yes, that sensor (or at least the lack of the filter) is the cause for this problem.
But it also gives more resolution.

Montfrooij Posted at 5-7 00:52
It is not a new sensor right now.
But this specific technique did cause new problems when it was introduced.
And yes, that sensor (or at least the lack of the filter) is the cause for this problem.

None of that makes any sense.

And since the OP didn't test with the original camera as well, how can anyone be sure that this issue is new and unique to the new Mavic 3 pro?

Labroides Posted at 5-7 01:32
None of that makes any sense.

And since the OP didn't test with the original camera, how can anyone be sure that this issue is new and unique to the new Mavic 3 pro?

Ok.

I have the same issue with the Mavic 3

Same Problem! Please fix this!

Same Problem! Please fix this!

fans310d8be2 Posted at 6-27 11:58
Same Problem! Please fix this!

Hi there. We're sorry for the trouble that this has caused. Can you please upload the original file via Google Drive and send the link here so we can check? In addition, please tell us the detailed inquiry including the DJI product that you are currently using so we can provide you an accurate resolution. Please keep us posted. Thank you.

This is a case of Drone Pilot vs Photographer.
As a professional photographer and videographer with 20 years of experience with everything from ENG-cameras to pro Cinema Cameras: The issue you are experiencing is to be expected with the sensor and lens available in the drone. There is very little to do about it. You can make it less noticeable in post, but the main tip any pro will give you is, "look out for it so you can avoid it in camera".