Hi, is there some possibility to see the European CE marking for the Air 2S ?

This question has been asked many times since the last couple of years ... No answers from DJI up to now

Why is everyone making such a big deal about the European markings?  I thought the only thing you needed to fly your drone in Europe is the license.  

Shawgod Posted at 5-2 06:10
Why is everyone making such a big deal about the European markings?  I thought the only thing you needed to fly your drone in Europe is the license.

Next year a DJI Air2S without marking should be used only in A3 subcategory scenary.
If DJI will provide a C1 marking it should be used in A1 subcategory scenary

Shawgod Posted at 5-2 06:10
Why is everyone making such a big deal about the European markings?  I thought the only thing you needed to fly your drone in Europe is the license.

Because January 1, 2024 is the end of the slip party. The "open" category has been divided into 3 parts.



With the table below, even if it is not in English you will see that depending on the weight of the drone, before 2024 you can take off your drone in a city center, a tourist site... to take your selfies with your girlfriend or something else. From 2024 it is much more restrictive .

It takes not only a maximum mass but also a C label (which has nothing to do with CE marking). Otherwise it is below 250g which reduces the possibilities unless you have a mini 3 among others. But without this sticker, Mavic Air, 2S, 2 Pro, 2 Zoom... owners will only be able to photograph nature far from any residential or industrial infrastructure. Not to mention the restricted areas which authorize 50m of altitude which are not even accessible to them.

There are many people who say "no problem, you pass the A2 license and the problem is solved". Yes but no, if you want to do survey in town for example you can, but there should be no pedestrians in the area... And that the municipalities do not necessarily accept it.

Us citizens are always more free to do something !

So if I come to Europe with met Mini 2 wanting to get some video of my trip I need to get certified A1?

A1 is the category for a such scenario.
The under 250 grams aircraft  will be probably C0 automatically certified and you will be able to fly in A1 scenario.

Shawgod Posted at 5-2 15:53
So if I come to Europe with met Mini 2 wanting to get some video of my trip I need to get certified A1?

You will have to register, it is mandatory. And then the A1/A3 exam is optional for MTOMs below 250g. What I write here is valid today only. The day you make the trip inquire again because it can change.

LV_Forestry Posted at 5-2 23:05
You will have to register, it is mandatory. And then the A1/A3 exam is optional for MTOMs below 250g. What I write here is valid today only. The day you make the trip inquire again because it can change.

At present the Mini 2 MTOM is not officially declared, then it wont be automatically certified as C0. The new Mini 2 SE has an official MTOM, then it will be.
Things are changing and I hope the situation will become more clear in the next few months.

FabioV Posted at 5-3 01:42
At present the Mini 2 MTOM is not officially declared, then it wont be automatically certified as C0. The new Mini 2 SE has an official MTOM, then it will be.
Things are changing and I hope the situation will become more clear in the next few months.

This has nothing to do with. Below C0, don't forget the category "Privately built and drones purchased before 01/01/2024 (under 250g)"
Open Category - Civil Drones | EASA (europa.eu)

So I am confused.  Not to sound stupid but will I be able to fly it in Europe without tests?

yes, you can ! (sub 249 grams drone only)

LV_Forestry Posted at 5-3 02:05
This has nothing to do with. Below C0, don't forget the category "Privately built and drones purchased before 01/01/2024 (under 250g)"
Open Category - Civil Drones | EASA (europa.eu)
[view_image]

The weights described in the EU/Regulation are always related to the MTOM, not to the actual wight of the drone you can measure with a scale.
How much is the MTOM of a Mini 2 ? You cannot tell, because it's up to the manufacturer to declare it.
If you look at the specification of the new Mini2 SE (and the Mavic 3 series)  you can find the official MTOM. And, in order to respect this specification, DJI does not sell any add-on that increases the weight (propeller guards, for instance).
For the Mini 2 the MTOM is not declared, then, starting on 1st January 2024m  you cannot consider the Mini 2 as a C0 drone. Maybe something will change in the regulation or in the official specifications before that date.

FabioV Posted at 5-3 05:05
The weights described in the EU/Regulation are always related to the MTOM, not to the actual wight of the drone you can measure with a scale.
How much is the MTOM of a Mini 2 ? You cannot tell, because it's up to the manufacturer to declare it.
If you look at the specification of the new Mini2 SE (and the Mavic 3 series)  you can find the official MTOM. And, in order to respect this specification, DJI does not sell any add-on that increases the weight (propeller guards, for instance).

How much is the MTOM of a privately built drone ? You confuse C label and privatly build or purchase before 01/01/2023. Ask your CAA and you'll see.

Stop reinventing the law. Below 250g home made or buy before 01/01/2024 it falls into this category. There is nothing else to add.

The EASA statements are very clear:


Open Category - Civil Drones | EASA (europa.eu)

Shawgod Posted at 5-3 04:55
So I am confused.  Not to sound stupid but will I be able to fly it in Europe without tests?

Yes you will be able to fly without test. But registration is madatory since the drone is equiped with a camera.

LV_Forestry Posted at 5-3 05:15
How much is the MTOM of a privately built drone ? You confuse C label and privatly build or purchase before 01/01/2023. Ask your CAA and you'll see.

Stop reinventing the law. Below 250g home made or buy before 01/01/2024 it falls into this category. There is nothing else to add.

I'm not re-inventing the law, I'm understanding it in a different way than you do. And my understanding is based on what has been discussed on local forums by experts and lawyers (including a responsile from EASA).
The Article 20 of the Regulation is clear:

"UAS types within the meaning of Decision No 768/2008/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council85, which do not comply with Delegated Regulation (EU) 2019/945 and which are not privately‑built are allowed to continue to be operated under the following conditions, when they have been placed on the market before 1 January 2024:

(a) in subcategory A1 as defined in Part A of the Annex, provided that the unmanned aircraft has a maximum take-off mass of less than 250 g, including its payload;

(b) in subcategory A3 as defined in Part A of the Annex, provided that the unmanned aircraft has a maximum take-off mass of less than 25 kg, including its fuel and payload."

It refers to the MTOM and the MTOM is a specification declared by the manufacturer, not measured by the user. I know there are pending requests to modify this Article, in order to make it more friendly for the small drones. But if the modification won't approved, the Mini 2 will be outside the A1 subcathegory.  

But If you're comfortable with your interpretation, be happy and have good flights.

BTW the MTOM for my privately built drone is the one I want to declare (after measuring it, of course).

  

FabioV Posted at 5-3 05:53
I'm not re-inventing the law, I'm understanding it in a different way than you do. And my understanding is based on what has been shared on local forums by experts and lawyers.
But If you're comfortable with your interpretation, be happy and have good flights.

FAQ Droni (enac.gov.it)

Article 22 :
Without prejudice to Article 20, the use of UAS in the ‘open’ category which do not comply with the requirements of Parts 1 to 5 of the Annex to Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2019/945 ([size=0.7em]7) shall be allowed for a transitional period of ►M2 30 months ◄ starting one year after the date of entry into force of this Regulation...


Article 20 :

Particular provisions concerning the use of certain UAS in the ‘open’ category

UAS types within the meaning of Decision No 768/2008/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council (6), which do not comply with Delegated Regulation (EU) 2019/945 and which are not privately-built are allowed to continue to be operated under the following conditions, when they have been placed on the market before ►M2  1 January 2023 ◄ :

(a)

in subcategory A1 as defined in Part A of the Annex, provided that the unmanned aircraft has a maximum take-off mass of less than 250 g, including its payload;

(b)

in subcategory A3 as defined in Part A of the Annex, provided that the unmanned aircraft has a maximum take-off mass of less than 25 kg, including its fuel and payload.

Consolidated TEXT: 32019R0947 — EN — 06.06.2020 (europa.eu)

I can't do anything more for you. If you refuse to listen to reason, at least, thank you for not disseminating erroneous information.

FabioV Posted at 5-3 05:53
I'm not re-inventing the law, I'm understanding it in a different way than you do. And my understanding is based on what has been shared on local forums by experts and lawyers.
But If you're comfortable with your interpretation, be happy and have good flights.

See no personal offence. Given the quality of the Italian CAA website concerning drones, we can understand why there are certain interpretations.

The last update of the "open category" section dates from October 4, 2021. This is a shame for an official civil aviation agency.

If you want real info go to the EASA website. Even if I admit we get lost there is so much information. Otherwise there is the Latvian CAA website, I think they have done a great job, and at least things are very clear there.




Translation of the text in Latvian Language :


During the transition period until 2024, when flying with unmanned aircraft without a corresponding C-class identification mark, which guarantees the fulfillment of certain technical requirements, stricter conditions are provided in the open category. Starting from 2024, flights with unmanned aircraft without appropriate class C marking will be allowed only under the conditions, if their total take-off mass is <250g (within subcategory A1) or flights are made far away from persons not involved in the flight (subject to the conditions of subcategory A3) . At the moment, some models with class C marking are starting to appear on the market - it is important to pay attention to the fact that compliance is declared by the manufacturer, following the procedure set out in Regulation (EU) 2019/945, and not by the user of the unmanned aircraft, independently evaluating the technical parameters.
Atvertā kategorija – CAA

LV_Forestry Posted at 5-3 06:24
[view_image]
FAQ Droni (enac.gov.it)

From my of view, the person that does not want to understand reasons and that continues diffusing wrong information are you, not me.
The Article 20 that you posted is the reason of the issue. It clearly refers to the maximum take off mass (and please read it carefully ... it tells maximum take-off mass, not take off mass ). In aviation the maximum take off mass is well defined: it is a specification of an aircraft declared by the manufacturer, not measured by a pilot. At this link there is a Q&A to a EASA responsible that confirms my understanding:

https://www.quadricottero.com/20 ... sato-in-a3-dal.html

There are pending modification requests to Article 20, because in the way it is written now it can cause a lot of troubles for drones without an MTOM officially declared. And there are a lot of chances that something will happen before 1st january 2024.

But this is the present status of the art.

FabioV Posted at 5-3 06:40
From my of view, the person that does not want to understand reasons and that continues diffusing wrong information are you, not me.
The Article 20 that you posted is the reason of the issue. It clearly refers to the maximum take off mass (and please read it carefully ... it tells maximum take-off mass, not take off mass ). In aviation the maximum take off mass is well defined: it is a specification of an aircraft declared by the manufacturer, not measured by a pilot. At this link there is a Q&A to a EASA responsible that confirms my understanding:

"From my of view, the person that does not want to understand reasons and that continues diffusing wrong information are you, not me."

Well, write to the European CAAs to force them to modify their Tables and explanatory texts because you "interpret" the law better than them on the basis of experts and net lawyers.

FabioV Posted at 5-3 06:40
From my of view, the person that does not want to understand reasons and that continues diffusing wrong information are you, not me.
The Article 20 that you posted is the reason of the issue. It clearly refers to the maximum take off mass (and please read it carefully ... it tells maximum take-off mass, not take off mass ). In aviation the maximum take off mass is well defined: it is a specification of an aircraft declared by the manufacturer, not measured by a pilot. At this link there is a Q&A to a EASA responsible that confirms my understanding:

"https://www.quadricottero.com/2021/11/drone-dji-mini-2-declassato-in-a3-dal.html"

Is this a joke?The article is dated October 2021


Any source outside the official CAA and EASA sites has the same value as the DJI Forum regarding the law, ie none.

LV_Forestry Posted at 5-3 06:42
"From my of view, the person that does not want to understand reasons and that continues diffusing wrong information are you, not me."

Well, write to the European CAAs to force them to modify their Tables and explanatory texts because you "interpret" the law better than them on the basis of experts and net lawyers.

This is the official answer from Ing. Rubbo (EASA Project Manager Drones) to a question about the Mini 2 subcategory after the transition timeframe. This answer is published (in Italian) in the link I posted before. I translated it to English:

"We are aware that not all drones placed on the market today have MTOM identification and for this reason Article 22 uses 'take-off weight' (meaning that the operator has the task of measuring the weight before take-off and then use a configuration that falls within the category boundaries).

In reality, as you indicated, article 20 instead refers to the MTOM, therefore a configuration like that of the DJI Mini 2 would not be allowed in A1 as the MTOM is greater than 250g.

Actually I think we should consider whether the reference to the MTOM in Article 20 is correct (since the same considerations apply as we did for Article 22) and this point is included in my list of improvements to the regulation which I will propose to the Commission for next year."

As you can see, this is not an interpretation from my side. This is an official answer from EASA. EASA is aware that there is an issue with the Article 20. And probably it will be changed. But the information I'm disseminating are true ...

LV_Forestry Posted at 5-3 06:50
"https://www.quadricottero.com/2021/11/drone-dji-mini-2-declassato-in-a3-dal.html"

Is this a joke?The article is dated October 2021

This article is from 2021, but it contains an official statement from an EASA officer (and there is a screenshot of the email). And after more than one year, the Article 20 is still the same. This is not a joke. Please see the translation in my previous post.

FabioV Posted at 5-3 06:59
This article is from 2021, but it contains an official statement from an EASA officer (and there is a screenshot of the email). And after more than one year, the Article 20 is still the same. This is not a joke. Please see the translation in my previous post.

I see what you mean, but we're not going to restrict ourselves. To date, the Latvian. German, French... CAA clearly authorizes the use of unmarked drones with a mass of less than 250g after 01/01/2024.

I agree that on this story of MTOM / TOM the text is not clear. From a pragmatic point of view, it is the kinetic energy which is taken into account. So in the absence of manufacturer specifications, it's the mass that takes off and then voila. Otherwise we put everything in the trash and we all buy M3s.
Atvertā kategorija – CAA
Guide_categorie_Ouverte.pdf (ecologie.gouv.fr) page 17
Offene Kategorie | dipul | Digitale Plattform Unbemannte Luftfahrt  | dipul


Afterwards, it is not excluded that it is different in Italy because each state is entitled to impose stricter regulations. But at least, for those who read us, you know that for now, you are welcome in Latvia, Germany and France with your drones put on the market before 01/01/2024 weighing less than 250g, without C label to make them fly in A1.

LV_Forestry Posted at 5-3 07:14
I see what you mean, but we're not going to restrict ourselves. To date, the Latvian. German, French... CAA clearly authorizes the use of unmarked drones with a mass of less than 250g after 01/01/2024.

I agree that on this story of MTOM / TOM the text is not clear. From a pragmatic point of view, it is the kinetic energy which is taken into account. So in the absence of manufacturer specifications, it's the mass that takes off and then voila. Otherwise we put everything in the trash and we all buy M3s.

The reason I'm posting those articles is just to demonstrate that the situation is not so clear as you're telling and that EASA messed up things just writing Article 20 and Article 22 in different ways.
As you can see, I'm not interpreting anything, I'm just sharing the information I've. It will be up to EASA and local agencies to clarify the situation.
I suppose (and I hope) that a pragmatic approach will be adopted in 2024, because the impact of the Article is not only on Mini 2.

FabioV Posted at 5-3 07:23
The reason I'm posting those articles is just to demonstrate that the situation is not so clear as you're telling and that EASA messed up things just writing Article 20 and Article 22 in different ways.
As you can see, I'm not interpreting anything, I'm just sharing the information I've. It will be up to EASA and local agencies to clarify the situation.
I suppose (and I hope) that a pragmatic approach will be adopted in 2024, because the impact of the Article is not only on Mini 2.

For me at the CAA level it is clear.

The text published by the European Commission can be ambiguous yes it is true. But it may be voluntary so as not to completely lock the thing, and leave the Member States the choice.

LV_Forestry Posted at 5-3 07:32
For me at the CAA level it is clear.

The text published by the European Commission can be ambiguous yes it is true. But it may be voluntary so as not to completely lock the thing, and leave the Member States the choice.

Unfortunately  our local agency is still mentioning the "maximum take off mass" in the FAQ. And this is different from the FAQs I can find for other countries. It seems that the EU has a single regulation, with different local interpretations. And this is a shame. People coming in EU should consider to carefully understand the regulations (and the interpretation) for each single country.

as always in Italy we like to create misunderstanding. The European regulations are clear.

djiuser_elY2LBq36hDD Posted at 5-3 11:26
as always in Italy we like to create misunderstanding. The European regulations are clear.

Sorry but the EU regulation in this case is not clear at all. Why Article 20 mentions MTOM and Article 22 mentions TOM ? Do you think both terms are referring to the same concept ? Please  consider that In the aviation context those term have a well defined and different meaning. A regulation must be formally rigorous. If it is not, it should be amended, not interpreted in a relaxed way.

Hello Dji... News for C1 Label on Air2S? Grazie.

Hello Dji... News for C1 Label on Air2S? Grazie (2).

Jozzino Air 2S Posted at 5-12 07:50
Hello Dji... News for C1 Label on Air2S? Grazie (2).

Hi there. Thanks for checking in. We currently have no related updates regarding the C1 label for the DJI Air 2S. We're sorry for the inconvenience. DJI is committed to complying with the new European Drone Regulation for other existing drone models. We will work with notified bodies to obtain additional drone certificates over the coming year. More details will be announced in due course. Thanks for your understanding.

DJI Tony Posted at 5-13 03:53
Hi there. Thanks for checking in. We currently have no related updates regarding the C1 label for the DJI Air 2S. We're sorry for the inconvenience. DJI is committed to complying with the new European Drone Regulation for other existing drone models. We will work with notified bodies to obtain additional drone certificates over the coming year. More details will be announced in due course. Thanks for your understanding.

Sorry but I don’t understand. The Air 2s owners invested money in purchasing it, that contributed to DJI’’s revenue. I think we’ve deserved the right to obtain a clear answer about this request, in order to be able to plan our future investments. Starting from the next year, the utilization of the Air 2s in EU will very limited, because of the restrictions that will be in place.
Thanks for understanding.

FabioV Posted at 5-13 04:34
Sorry but I don’t understand. The Air 2s owners invested money in purchasing it, that contributed to DJI’’s revenue. I think we’ve deserved the right to obtain a clear answer about this request, in order to be able to plan our future investments. Starting from the next year, the utilization of the Air 2s in EU will very limited, because of the restrictions that will be in place.
Thanks for understanding.

We're sorry, but the information is currently unavailable. As soon as we receive new updates about it, we'll let the pilots know. We're sorry for the inconvenience.

Without certification this will be my worst purchase ever.  I hope he gets c1.  Otherwise, nothing but sell for nothing

Whatever_12 Posted at 5-17 08:34
Without certification this will be my worst purchase ever.  I hope he gets c1.  Otherwise, nothing but sell for nothing

Don't buy dji drones anymore.they cheated us.I bought it 3 months ago and I will return it in a week. Luckily there is amazon.great drone, but it will be useless in a while

DJI Tony Posted at 5-14 02:00
We're sorry, but the information is currently unavailable. As soon as we receive new updates about it, we'll let the pilots know. We're sorry for the inconvenience.

Don't buy dji drones anymore.they cheated us.I bought it 3 months ago and I will return it in a week. Luckily there is amazon.great drone, but it will be useless in a while

Don't buy dji drones anymore.they cheated us.I bought it 3 months ago and I will return it in a week. Luckily there is amazon.great drone, but it will be useless in a while

FabioV Posted at 5-2 04:59
This question has been asked many times since the last couple of years ... No answers from DJI up to now

Don't buy dji drones anymore.they cheated us.I bought it 3 months ago and I will return it in a week. Luckily there is amazon.great drone, but it will be useless in a while