A friend of mine who has his 333 and has offered to help me with the application process, just told me I might need a pilots license to get my 333.  I have not checked the FAA website re: commercial UAV 's lately...Does anyone know if this is true?   I know he doesn't have a pilots lic....Thanks guys

No, you don't need to be a pilot to get a 333 exemption.  The whole idea of the 333 exemption is to be "exempt" from needing a pilots license, among many other things a normal pilot must adhere to.  Here's some helpful information.  http://www.faa.gov/regulations_p ... a/Send_Petition.pdf

Would love to see an update from you as you go through the process.  I'm getting prepared to do the same.

Inspire_Steve Posted at 2015-8-29 19:50
No, you don't need to be a pilot to get a 333 exemption.  The whole idea of the 333 exemption is to  ...

Thanks Steve....Keep you guys posted....

bob.northland1, you will not need a pilot license in order to submit a petition for exemption and get it approved. As part of the long list of requirements in your approved exemption, the FAA will also require you to have a minimum of a sport or recreational pilot license and a valid US driver's license. That means you'll need a pilot license in order to use your exemption. You can ask to be exempt from that requirement in your petition, but the FAA will not grant you exemption for sure.

You can view all of the granted exemptions at the following link. As you will see when you started reading though them, they all require a pilot license.

http://www.faa.gov/uas/legislati ... /333_authorizations

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InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-29 21:13
bob.northland1, you will not need a pilot license in order to submit a petition for exemption and ge ...

Not sure I understood that but I will go to that link....Thank you much

bob.northland1, let's try the short answer then. Yes, the FAA requires a pilot license. It was always required.

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InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-29 21:48
bob.northland1, let's try the short answer then. Yes, the FAA requires a pilot license. It was alway ...

thanks again

InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-29 18:48
bob.northland1, let's try the short answer then. Yes, the FAA requires a pilot license. It was alway ...

I know someone who just bought a Phantom II in late May, definitely does not have a pilot license, submitted a petition for an exemption so that he could use his new drone for commercial purposes, and he got it.  Not only does he NOT have a pilots license, but he barely just started flying his drone.  His petition was very elementary compared to all the lawyer-looking exemption petitions, and he got the exemption.  

Again, HE DOES NOT have a pilots license and in all my research, almost all the drone operators petitioning for an exemption DO NOT make reference to have a pilots license.

From what I can tell the whole idea of the exemption process is to request an exemption from all the requirements, such as having a pilots license.

Inspire_Steve, in an effort to ensure we're spreading good information here, please give us a link to your friend's approved exemption so we can see that it does not require a pilot license. You can find his exemption in the following list:

http://www.faa.gov/uas/legislative_programs/section_333/333_authorizations

Also, it would be helpful if you could link us to a few other approved exemptions where there is no mention of the pilot license requirement.

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InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-30 11:34
Inspire_Steve, in an effort to ensure we're spreading good information here, please give us a link t ...

Never said he was a friend.  He's a college kid trying to start a drone photography business.  I've seen the list and his is on there.  I won't be pointing anyone to it.  

Inspire_Steve, no problem. Please point us to another random exemption that does not require a pilot license. You said you found many.

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InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-30 11:38
Inspire_Steve, no problem. Please point us to another random exemption that does not require a pilot ...

Per your request, InspireHelp... of the four I just reviewed, one made reference to the petitioner having a pilots license.  Two make no reference whatsoever to a pilots license, and one specifically explains to the FAA why he should be exempt from needing a pilots license.  

I'm a newbie to the forum and appreciate that you want to make sure information is accurate here.  Please look through some of these yourself.  I'm not comfortable pointing out specific exemption grants, highlighting any particular individuals for additional scrutiny.  

Inspire_Steve, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. A lot of people who are getting ready to submit a petition and/or have recently submitted a petition don't fully understand the entire process and/or haven't taken the time to research the process in enough detail. I was in your shoes back in August of 2014 when I submitted my petition.

The fact is that it's impossible to get an approved exemption that does not require a pilot license. The FAA simply won't allow it.

All approved exemptions are listed on the FAA's website, so everyone has access to them. You pointing one out will do nothing other than confirm what I'm saying -- since you won't find one that does not require a pilot license. I understand that it's tough to admit defeat, but everyone must do it sometimes.

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InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-30 12:08
Inspire_Steve, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. A lot of people who are getting ready to subm ...

Not trying to give me a hard time eh?  Defeat eh?  Okay, InspireHelp,  I'm not interested in winning an argument.  I'm an information seeker, like bob.northland1.  I even have an open post about the same topic.  I don't have all the answers, but from everything I've researched, you are wrong.  If you have an official faa.gov link that says a UAS operator must have a pilots license or even a sport or recreational pilots license to get a 333 exemption, your help will be greatly appreciated.  And it would be my pleasure with big thanks, to learn from you.  Can you point to this requirement?

Inspire_Steve, see the answer to the first FAQ listed here:
http://www.faa.gov/uas/legislative_programs/section_333/333_faqs

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InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-30 15:08
Inspire_Steve, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. A lot of people who are getting ready to subm ...

Hey Guys....I checked out the links you posted and you are absolutely correct...a pilot lic. is required for a 333.  I talked to a friend today who is actively involved in training new UAV owners and works in the aviation field and he feels that requiring a pilots lic. to safely and lawfully  operate a UAV is a little like shooting a fly with a cannon----NO DISRESPECT TO THOSE THAT DO HAVE A PILOTS LICENSE .  Not official, but he has heard that the FAA is working on a separate UAS division and maybe a UAV licensing program will be put in place.  I can only hope....If anyone has heard about this please let me know.   Thanks for the help.

I submitted my exemption about a month ago.  It's not up for public viewing yet but I specifically wrote into ours that we would not have to have a pilots license.  I requested that ground school and passing the test be enough because operation of an actual plane was irrelevant.  I'll let you know if it works out in about 3 months (wait time we were quoted).  

Inspire_Steve Posted at 2015-8-30 14:22
I know someone who just bought a Phantom II in late May, definitely does not have a pilot license, ...

KISS answer: You do NOT need a Pilot license to apply. The exemption is for the aircraft requirements.
The issued Exemption WILL REQUIRE the PIC (Pilot in Command) to have the privileges of a Sport Pilot or greater to OPERATE within the Exemption.
I hold a 333 Exemption

drewid20 Posted at 2015-8-30 16:51
I submitted my exemption about a month ago.  It's not up for public viewing yet but I specifically w ...

Best of Luck hope it all works out....I'm going to wait a little while

Phantom Help Posted at 2015-8-30 13:01
Inspire_Steve, see the answer to the first FAQ listed here:
http://www.faa.gov/uas/legislative_progr ...

Based on this faq (http://www.faa.gov/uas/legislati ... n_333/333_faqs/#q12)], I can see why you (inspirehelp) are so certain in your response.  I've been reading through these and I've noticed in these exemptions, the petitioners make no mention of having a pilots license of any kind and some even state why they shouldn't need one.  Yet, the exemption is granted, AND includes the following condition:

Under this grant of exemption, a PIC (pilot in control) must hold either an airline transport,
commercial, private, recreational, or sport pilot certificate. The PIC must also hold a
current FAA airman medical certificate or a valid U.S. driver’s license issued by a
state, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, a territory, a possession, or the Federal
government. The PIC must also meet the flight review requirements specified in
14 CFR § 61.56 in an aircraft in which the PIC is rated on his or her pilot certificate.

So, it appears they are granting the exemption with this condition.  So, while many people may claim to have exemption status, I think there's a glaring oversight here (possibly on purpose?) that essentially nullifies it, for many.

Do do you need a pilots license (or some minimal cert) to get an exemption?  The answer would indeed appear to be "no".  But to be valid, "yes".

If anyone has other information that contradicts this, please share.  Thank you.  

Inspire_Steve Posted at 2015-8-31 05:36
Based on this faq (http://www.faa.gov/uas/legislative_programs/section_333/333_faqs/#q12)], I can  ...

I think you have read that correctly.  You can get an exemption without a pilots license but your PIC is supposed to have one.  I'm trying to buck that trend.  We shall see if it works.

skyvideoct Posted at 2015-8-30 13:58
KISS answer: You do NOT need a Pilot license to apply. The exemption is for the aircraft requireme ...

skyvideoct, When you say "Will Require the PIC to have the privileges of a sport pilot or greater", do you mean to say that it "affords the PIC the same privileges as"?  Do you have exact wording on your exemption to this affect.  All the exemptions I've seen appear to be conditional, stating:

PIC "must hold either an airline transport, commercial, private, recreational, or sport pilot certificate. The PIC must also hold a current FAA airman medical certificate or a valid U.S. driver’s license."

I haven't seen one that omits this or includes verbiage saying otherwise.  Would much appreciate your guidance.  Thanks.

drewid20 Posted at 2015-8-30 14:43
I think you have read that correctly.  You can get an exemption without a pilots license but your  ...

Yep, I think you're right.  I get it now.  

bob.northland1, the FAA is working on new rules for SUAS. You can read more about that at the following link:
https://www.faa.gov/uas/nprm

When those rules are passed, most people will no longer need to submit a petition to get an exemption. Instead, they'll just need to take a paper test in order to get the new unmanned operator (pilot) certificate. So, again, the requirement for a pilot certificate will still be there. However, it'll be easier to get, much less expensive, and will not require learning how to fly a manned aircraft.

The pilot training/safety courses that keep popping up out of the woodwork lately won't be needed. Those who advertise those often make it seem like that's all you need to do in order to fly legally for commercial purposes. Don't be fooled though. The only thing they might be good for is educating employees at companies who do fly SUAS commercially.

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Some good info in this thread. As far as I know Inspire_Steve and InspireHelp are both correct. As Steve said you do not need a pilots license to apply but you do need it to be valid. So maybe some guys have a 333 exemption because they somehow got one without the license but they are not valid because they do not have a pilots license.

Inspire_Steve Posted at 2015-8-30 17:44
skyvideoct, When you say "Will Require the PIC to have the privileges of a sport pilot or greater" ...

My exemption is posted as public information on the FAA/DOT site. I also have a recently received amendment modifying the AC list since my Inspire is in LA repair.
You will NOT receive an exemption if you "buck the trend" on the PIC requirements since that would set a precedent. Those that file with language against the trend of PIC requirements will most likely be denied.
They can wait out for the final ruling late next year or get a head start with a PPL.
No matter what, all should go through ground school training and take the FAA knowledge exam. That will be required in the probable ruling change anyway similar to CAA.

DJI-Dave, 333 exemptions are valid even if you don't have a pilot license. You only need a pilot license if you want to use your exemption. Not holding a valid pilot license does not prevent someone from getting an exemption and/or having a valid exemption.

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InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-30 16:28
DJI-Dave, 333 exemptions are valid even if you don't have a pilot license. You only need a pilot lic ...

not sure waht you said makes sense.

DJI-Dave Posted at 2015-8-30 20:07
not sure waht you said makes sense.

DJI-Dave, sorry about that. This process is pretty hard to follow for many people -- even more so for those who don't have an exemeption or have not gone through the process yet.

The exemption simply allows people to be exempt from certain FAA regulations. Since the Inspire 1 is unlike any manned aircraft, many of the FAA regulations simply cannot be applied to an Inspire 1. So, the FAA has this process where they make exemptions. The exemption process itself really has nothing to do with flying an aircraft for commercial purposes. It's just a necessary step to get to that point.

You made the following comment above:
"So maybe some guys have a 333 exemption because they somehow got one without the license but they are not valid because they do not have a pilots license."

Since a pilot license is not needed in order to obtain an exemption, those guys are not just somehow getting an exemption. That's just how the process works. A pilot license is not required to get an exemption. The exemption itself is still perfectly valid though. Not having a pilot license does not somehow invalidate the exemption. The exemption holder just needs to ensure their PIC has a pilot license in order to fly legally for commercial purposes.

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InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-30 18:11
bob.northland1, the FAA is working on new rules for SUAS. You can read more about that at the follow ...

Thanks for all the info....I have no great expectations but I can only hope the process gets more realistic for the rest of us.

skyvideoct Posted at 2015-8-31 06:29
My exemption is posted as public information on the FAA/DOT site. I also have a recently received  ...

We shall find out in 3 months time.  

InspireHelp Posted at 2015-8-30 17:22
DJI-Dave, sorry about that. This process is pretty hard to follow for many people -- even more so  ...

Ok, thats better. Thanks.

So basically in the USA you can apply for an exemption and don't need a license for the application.  But when the approved exemption is issued the FAA impose a condition that you need a  Pilot license.

So at the end of all that you need a Pilots License in the USA.

I reckon the FAA will adopt similar position to the UK CAA rules and require something like a BNUC-S pilot certification purely for UAVs.

So is InspireHelp from DJI ??  The Avatar isn't like normal DJI avatars or user names.  

"But when the approved exemption is issued the FAA impose a condition that you need a  Pilot license."

There is a US law that requires an airman certificate (pilot license) in order to use an aircraft for commercial purposes. The FAA is in charge of issuing airman certificates. And, unfortunately, all current airman certificates requires a manned aircraft to be flown in order to obtain them.


"So is InspireHelp from DJI ?"  

I am not. I just enjoy helping people with their Inspires.

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I have considered getting a sport pilots license in order to apply for a 333 exemption. The sport license requires 20 hours of flying. Consider that to fly an airplane, one is putting oneself and others at risk. This seems pretty stupid if all you want is to be able to fly a small UAV. In 2010 the fatality rate in general aviation was 1.33 per 100,000 hours. And the accident rate was 7.2.  http://www.aopa.org/About-AOPA/General-Aviation-Statistics/General-Aviation-Safety-Record-Current-and-Historic

So if 5000 noobs go out and fly for 20 hours each in order to get an exemption, 1.33 people will die and there will be 7.2 accidents. I submit that noob pilots are likely to have a higher accident rate than the entire range of general aviation pilots.  And if they keep flying more accidents will occur.  Is this a smart thing to encourage?

BTW I noticed that 7 people who were innocently driving cars in England were killed when a jet fighter, that was participating in a nearby airshow, crashed into them.  The public seems to accepts this level of risk from airplanes for some reason.  

The risk from small UAVs flown by blindfolded pilots using defective equipment  would probably be far lower than 7 people killed per year. Over 100 people are killed in the US each year by falling trees or branches. Yet people walk under them all of the time and don't see much risk.  http://www.reiffandbily.com/100-people-killed-trees-every-year-united-states/

alan@goldsteinp Posted at 2015-8-31 12:11
I have considered getting a sport pilots license in order to apply for a 333 exemption. The sport li ...

Haha,.. you are trying to use logic when discussing government.. it'll never work. Good point though, and I think the FAA agrees with you, that's why they are working on a new set of rules. The thing is that this industry has popped up so fast that they haven't had much time to sort out how to regulate it, so they used what they had in place with a few modifiers in order to allow us to at least get our budding businesses off the ground (pun intended) in some sort of a controlled, legal way.

It's my opinion that it will get better soon. If you really want to forge the path, get your exemption and license now and I'm sure it will be enough to grandfather you in when the new rules come out. If not, hang in there and keep an eye open for the new rules. I'm sure the media will splash it all over the news as they love to talk about drones.

I've had the same concerns you all mentioned, and wanted to share some info I found on the FAA's site yesterday. It's the proposed regulations for UAS systems and they seem MUCH more reasonable than the 333 exemption requirements.  In particular, I was glad to see pilot licenses off the table in favor of a proposed knowledge test and UAS operator certificate.

Of course, these are still proposals and (as far as I can tell) we still don't know when the final regulations will be handed down, but it's at least a good sign.

You can see an overview of the suggested regulations here:

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_ ... 15_sUAS_Summary.pdf


or you can view to the source page here:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/nprm/


Happy (and safe) flying, guys.

I hold a 333 for my business and I do not have a Pilots License.  That being said my PIC is required to have one per the exemption and I specifically requested exemption from this clause.  I say this only to confirm all the arguments that No, you do not need a license to apply or receive 333.  Yes, you do need a license to fly under a 333 for commercial purposes.  If you request exemption from this clause, you will more than likely be denied this exemption (not your entire 333, just this clause) and they will issue the 333 with the license requirement active.  Its really the only way of covering themselves from non-licensed people causing damage and the FAA getting into some serious hot water for not screening people who are flying under 333.  The only method for people to be screened is to get some form of certification.

precisionair, if you challenge the FAA on the pilot license requirement, they will tell you they are requiring it since 49 USC§ 44711 requires it. 49 USC§ 44711 states the following:

"A person may not serve in any capacity as an airman with respect to a civil aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance used, or intended for use, in air commerce without an airman certificate authorizing the airman to serve in the capacity for which the certificate was issued"

While the above is in fact a law that applies to all aircraft (even SUAS), having a pilot license does not allow people to satisfy that law. Well, that's my opinion -- and, the FAA disagrees with me. I don't think it satisifes the requirement since there are no airman certificates that authorize the airman to serve in the capacity for which the certificate was issued. Clearly, none of the existing existing airman certificates were creating with SUAS in mind. SUAS were not even a topic of conversation and possibly did not even exist back when those airman certificates were created.

Furthermore, the Administrator of the FAA is allowed to exempt people from the pilot license requirement. Per 49 USC§ 44701:

"(f) Exemptions.— The Administrator may grant an exemption from a requirement of a regulation prescribed under subsection (a) or (b) of this section or any of sections 44702–44716 of this title if the Administrator finds the exemption is in the public interest."

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What I find perplexing about the entire concept of FAA oversight is that these are hobbyist models. Anyone at any age with no qualifications can buy them and fly them just about anywhere using only their own good, or bad judgment.  So if the FAA is all about safety, why don't they regulate the use of these?  Yet as soon as a person accepts 1 cent for a photograph, these models transform themselves into commercial aircraft... something the FAA says it has the authority to regulate.  Do they have regulative authority over model aircraft?  

So if you are a 12 year old kid with a $50 flying camera, shoot a photo of your next door neighbor's house, sell it to him to display on his wall, you need a 333 exemption.  

It seems to me that the FAA is more interested in controlling commercial use and trying to extend its authority than they are about safety.  The commercial users are likely to be the most experienced and safest flyers.

http://www.provideocoalition.com/drone-law-update-faa