Platypus1965 Posted at 2015-9-2 11:03
On a side note, I was flying on Mt Diablo State Park and was told by a park official that this was " ...

Agreed 100%, I'd argue the drone use in the State Park is no more dangerous than mountain biking.  Actually, I bet if we took a look at the stats on how many people have been injured by drones in a state park vs mountain bikes we'd have a pretty good case to at least allow it.  I bet more people are injured engaging in hiking than drone use.  Our filming raises awareness and encourages more people to visit our state parks, which means more revenue.  

I flew my mini code black drone amongst the trees in Big Sur, up and down a waterfall and got some great shots.  Wouldn't risk it with the P3 because there really isn't much room for error.

Platypus1965 Posted at 2015-9-2 13:32
Yup. Some overzealous ranger simply deciding that drones are bad and deciding to interpret an ordi ...

I was flying right outside the gates at Black Star Canyon, near Irvine Lake.  A ranger drove by and was staring hard at the drone.  I waved and smiled, nothing came of it.  But honestly my gut was telling me he was trying to come up with a reason to stop me, although I believe at that exact moment I was away from State property.

mgsf@embarqmail Posted at 2015-9-2 15:19
Gotta feel sorry for the "THEY are gonna take my guns" crowd. What a fearful way to live.

Is anyone ...

If my kite with a cam on it drifts over your property because it's located next to the park I am flying it, should I be fined?  Why?

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-9-3 07:39
I wanted to let everybody know that we have a lobbyist in DC and a Legislative Attorney.  My request ...

Thank you, I heard on local AM news KNX1070 that the bill was defeated with the help of drone lobbyists lobbying hard against the new regulations.  Also mentioned were GoPro, Amazon, and Google as supporting the campaign against these ridiculous regulations.

acenothing Posted at 2015-9-3 14:55
We brought this on ourselves.  Los Angeles airport is reporting "near misses" at 6,000 feet WTF?  We ...

I've seen tests done on new jet engines where they toss frozen chickens into the engines while they are running.  Personally I believe the risk drones pose is less than birds.  Not saying it isn't possible or it can't be dangerous...  Like with fire fighting at low altitudes with aircraft already under extreme stresses.  However, with the millions of successful flights, and the billions of birds flying around, I'd say it's not too likely of an occurrence.  It only takes one though.  The Hudson landing sure raised awareness.  

Another thing to consider, a former FAA administrator was on the radio 3 weeks ago claiming that the windshields on the cockpits could withstand a greater impact than that of the typical drone.  

Again, I'm not saying it's not a risk.  I just think it's over hyped by the people who are against drones, almost a case of reefer madness if you will.

Booradley Posted at 2015-9-11 10:11
I've seen tests done on new jet engines where they toss frozen chickens into the engines while the ...

That's all very well for large commercial aircraft, but not for smaller ones. A drone could quite easily go straight through the windscreen on a light aircraft and take out the pilot. Some might recall the Mythbusters episode where they fired a frozen chicken at a light aircraft windscreen.....

FYI - Jerry Brown vetoed this bill yesterday...

Booradley Posted at 2015-9-10 17:11
I've seen tests done on new jet engines where they toss frozen chickens into the engines while the ...

Have you also seen these frozen chickens thrown into a helicopter tail rotor?  Or the main rotor?  How about into a small private aircraft with a single motor and thinner windshield?  

We are being naive here.  We believe we have a right to risk other peoples lives so we can brag we fly higher or farther then we are allowed.  Sadly, one of us will go to jail for risking others lives.

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-9-10 00:47
Guys, I want to thank you all for your support.  With it we have been able to defeat SB142 in Califo ...

Great to hear Ed.

acenothing Posted at 2015-9-11 10:59
Have you also seen these frozen chickens thrown into a helicopter tail rotor?  Or the main rotor?  ...

Ace, here I am trying to relieve some of your anxiety and all along your intention was either to start a tit for tat, or be dramatic.  

I have not seen any tests done on helicopters or as you and Geebax suggest small aircraft.  Let's not get all A.D.D. and go back to your original statement, the one in which I was responding to:

"I fear the day someone brings down a commercial aircraft killing dozens."

I agree, these things may be able to do a number on small aircraft but correct me if I'm wrong.  Weren't we discussing your fears of a large "commercial aircraft killing dozens?"

Geebax Posted at 2015-9-10 22:49
That's all very well for large commercial aircraft, but not for smaller ones. A drone could quite  ...

I agree Geebax, but we are talking about commercial airliners, not small planes

"I fear the day someone brings down a commercial aircraft killing dozens."

Look, I am not advocating stupidity, I am just saying I think some of us are blowing this out of proportion thanks to the media inciting fears.  If people would just follow the rules and remain more than 5 miles away from an airport and keep it under 400 feet, the risk is relatively low.  And it is always worth noting that there are a lot of birds sharing airspace with our planes.  A duck could take out a single engine Cessna and I bet there are more ducks flying around right now than drones.  It happens, but about as often as a shark attack.

Booradley Posted at 2015-9-14 09:35
Ace, here I am trying to relieve some of your anxiety and all along your intention was either to s ...

I do not think I used the term "large".  I refered to killing dozens nots hundreds.  Apparently you are not concerned for people on these things?

acenothing Posted at 2015-9-14 12:05
I do not think I used the term "large".  I refered to killing dozens nots hundreds.  Apparently you ...

Seriously man, what is your deal?  Stay focused.  I'm almost convinced you are just trolling.  Life is too short to make argument out of every comment, it's a miserable existence.  

I have lost 3 people to two separate plane crashes, my baseball coach and his son, along with my best friend's Dad in a plane I had flown in many times.  All I was trying to do was alleviate your concern with commercial jets.  And for the record, go back and read that comment again, "large" wasn't in quotations, if that word is really bothering you I can remove it and still make the same point.  The plane you pictured above uses the same kind of windshield as the larger airliners do.  The type that the FAA administrator was referring to as durable enough to withstand the impact of most drones.  That along with any aircraft flying at high speeds and with a pressurized cabin.  

Just trying to help man, I love flying drones responsibly like the next guy and I'm not so sure you even do.  If we follow the rules, your concerns are a VERY low risk.  You have completely validated what I said in my previous comment, that you are just looking for an argument, I am done with you.  sound/off

Booradley Posted at 2015-9-14 10:32
Seriously man, what is your deal?  Stay focused.  I'm almost convinced you are just trolling.  Lif ...

We finally agree.  "Follow the rules" we should be good.  But many of the hobbyists want to "be free to" do fly anywhere they want.   Sorry for your losses.

So... California is claiming that they have jurisdiction over the airspace above private property and the Federal govt is claiming it has jurisdiction over all of the airspace above private property? Why would there need to be separate legislation for "drone operations"? If any aircraft crashed onto private property the owner/pilot would be responsible for the damage caused. Good luck getting any law enforcement agency to respond to a complaint on this. Ive had to try to deal with this regarding ultralight aircraft landing on my property and harassing hunters. Every agency I contacted (local, state, faa) said that they had no authority over them and passed me off to another agency. Only federal game wardens stepped up and put a stop to this and that was only because the pilots were harassing migratory birds.

is flying drones considered a sport?

A good friend of mine used to be an avid hang glider, and he is also an attorney (he no longer hang glides but still does pro bono legal work for USHPA). He tells me that the private property regarding airspace only goes to 85' AGL (according to the FAA, I believe). Apparently he was heavily involved in one of these cases. I've got to believe that he knows what he's talking about.

Ikary2008 Posted at 2015-9-11 03:12
Fortunately here in Venezuela there is no food, no basic necessities so nobody is going to get to in ...

This here is perspective, folk.  Here we are whining about being unable to fly our things where we want (not everyone) and NIMBY's trying to kill our hobby and here is what matters:  no food, necessities and they won't complain.  

We have such horrible first world problems.  Wish the ones against us would really get perspective.

Nice,  that the Guv veto'd it.  But,  I live in Riverside County,  Ca.  Here,  the local code enforcement is out of hand.  Own property,  but cant have more that 100 square feet of covered outdoor storage?  Own an R/V,  you can park it on your property,  but you can not stay in it,  even for a weekend,  or use it for storage.  To stay in it,  has to be on a slab and hooked up to utilities.  No off road vehicles of any kind in any place.  In one city,  you can't even ride a dirt bike ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY!  Your dog has to be on a chain,  even if your yard is fenced in.  Any cars on your property must be currently registered or non-op'd and capable of starting.  And many other fun little rules.  Oh,  did I mention,  this county is number one in the nation for arrests and convictions.  This place has perfected the art of the plea bargain deal.
Murica.  Land of the used to be free.  Reminds me of a sign over a zoo.  " Born Free.  Then Caged".

Kneepuck Posted at 2016-6-9 03:43
Nice,  that the Guv veto'd it.  But,  I live in Riverside County,  Ca.  Here,  the local code enforc ...

Great news. Moonbeam is good for something after all.

Kneepuck Posted at 2016-6-9 00:43
Nice,  that the Guv veto'd it.  But,  I live in Riverside County,  Ca.  Here,  the local code enforc ...

I write this using your post as a pretext to voice my opinion, with respect, this is how I think and feel about this topic:

Many of things you listed make sense to me, for instance, in what if (unlikely) scenarios.

It also serves the purpose to keep the rif-raf at bay. I personally would hate coming home each time and passing a neighbor with three cars from 1978 sitting and rusting there or enjoying a book at 11 PM and hear someone using their power tools or doing anything bothersome to me even if it's on *their* property.

Those rules stem from law enforcement data and experience on the field over time.
At one point it gets bad enough for someone's threshold that it gets put on the agenda.
People who attend meetings and help shape community policing and policies care. Their tolerence is much lower than the average slob.

And so those rules have to do with the civility many people in worse off places have forgotten or refuse to extend to other human beings.

The result in CA (at least SoCal where I live) is clean and pristine neighborhoods and public spaces.




As for regulating drone recreational use, the safeguards are in place and the tug-war means that like everything else, it will land (pun intended) somewhere ini between.
Political decisions are consensus-driven. It will be fine but note that we are living through the golden age of these toys at the moment: I expect more incidents to drive more restrictions in the future.

28wins Posted at 2016-8-3 11:34
I write this using your post as a pretext to voice my opinion, with respect, this is how I think a ...

But courtesy and tolerance is supposed to go both ways.  For example, there are plenty of gated communities around. They have stringent rules. People  who buy homes there are, or should be,  aware of this fact.  In a case like that, no one has a right to complain.  On the other hand,  say you have 150 acres in a mountain community.  Some in the community may have more, others may have less.  People let their dogs roam freely.  Everyone knows this,  and everyone even knows everyone else's dogs names.  New people move in to the community. And at the next community meeting, they propose making people stop letting their dogs roam.  They knew before they moved here about the dogs.  But they moved here anyway.  Then tried to change things.  Who should have the priority in this case?

* Interesting true fact:  This happened at our community meeting, which is held at the fire station.  The roll up door is usually left open for these meetings.  While the new resident was orating on the evils of loose dogs,  one of the loose dogs wandered in, went up to his table,  lifted his leg at the table leg,  and, having voiced his opinion as it were,  casually sauntered out.  Hilarious does not begin to describe.*

   

Kneepuck Posted at 2016-8-3 12:06
But courtesy and tolerance is supposed to go both ways.  For example, there are plenty of gated co ...

I can only imagine! Let me guess, the motion passed?
And 150 acres would be awesome.
I think in that case the dog(s) serve(s) to help protect the property from potential intruders and alert the owners to them. I'd have 3-4 roaming around too in that case and I hate pets.



In a more likely scenario, in a non-gated community, a young family is taking a walk after dinner with their toddler and walk in front of a house on a public street.
The donkey-sized dog on that property has nothing else to do and notices them passing by. The barking is now bothering everyone in 16 houses around that property.
Next, for reasons unknown to everyone it leaps the property fence and attacks the family. Had the dog been chained...

It's just an example and I agree with you, courtesy goes both way.
What we are both alluding to is the passage of time and the dynamics that shape a neighborhood as properties gets sold and bought. Newcomers and new views, preferences introduce friction. It's never ending and frankly quite annoying if you have been there for a long while.

Pricing acts a buffer against certain problems/ behaviors associated with certain economic classes but beyond that we are all humans.
Certain acts transcend all the clever filters realtors and associations can think of without breaking the law.
Say your new neighbor likes to smoke in front of his door before leaving work in the morning (note, he could smoke in his car or at his office building before entering) and several times in the evening.
The first 5 times you explain to him very politely that the smoke gets carried away and gets into your home. Could he please think of way to smoke inside his home instead. He can consume to death for all you care. His wife won't let him.
You've been there 28 years. He just bought the 0.8 acre property next door for $6M cash. He smokes and he is stubborn and selfish. Why do you do? He stands on his property right?

Or say you have this thing for sports cars. You have 2 of them. Your new 911 GT3 has straight pipes and you love it. The family with the newborn 3 houses down is tired and sleep-deprived. Their baby takes an hour to fall asleep and doesn't sleep long. There have been several instances when timing was bad and you woke the baby when you started your car (once was to rev the engine and show it off to your buddy) just when he had fallen asleep.

Closer to the purpose of these forums: the 16 year old down the street got an Inspire 1. His parents love him and wanted to reward his hard work at school, they didn't care about the price. He is zipping above the nighboorhood a dozen times a week. His YouTube videos are amazing and editing skills better than yours. You already chatted with the dad whom you know from the parents school meetings this past few years and dropped a hint about how his young one could probbaly imagine how the drone is freaking out everyone in the neighbood. They don't have a drone. They don't know anything about them. You have a P4 and you inderstand both sides. Nothing changes.
Last Sunday late afternoon, your family and you were enjoying a rare family day of rest and company together. Your wife and you are in the kitchen getting drinks and some food ready, your two daughters are in the pool. The boy likes one of them. Your wife spots the Inspire above your property and thinks it's recording your daughters. What do you do?

Rules and regulations are essential my friend in densily populated areas.
And in my book peace and common good trumps "I was here first" or "but I am on my property", not to say that those are not important arguments.
People think freedom means do whatever you want. That is incorrect.

Imagine you are the mayor of a small town, governor of CA, president... how do you even begin to run this show let alone, guide the trend and policing in a way that you can elevate morals and values. Unfortunately, it's easier to dumb down and that's exactly what happened these past few decades.

tbhone Posted at 2015-9-2 10:38
This won't be an issue since all of our Phantom 3's will have fallen out of the sky due to cracked ...

I smack mine into a wall and it's fine not a scratch on it

Spankybear Posted at 2015-9-2 11:47
I really doubt Moonbeam will veto this.

He's been the last couple years he's vetoing them because DJI Google and Facebook are very lucrative and push

gregg1r Posted at 2015-9-2 20:58
Get out the fork, California is done, actually over done. You've got supposed stars that purchase hu ...

I just read an article attorney general is going to look into California's gas prices

28wins Posted at 2016-8-4 11:53
I can only imagine! Let me guess, the motion passed?
And 150 acres would be awesome.
I think in ...

Ah,  but that is the crux of it.  Who is to decide what is the common good?  All these things are of little concern to me,  because,  as I said,  I am on 150 acres.  My closest neighbor is over a mile away.  But even if they were closer,  I would be considerate of his privacy.  I don't need laws to tell me that.  The fact is,  the ones with the money make the laws,  and of the people,  by the people and for the people is just lip service.

Kneepuck Posted at 2016-8-8 02:18
Ah,  but that is the crux of it.  Who is to decide what is the common good?  All these things are  ...

Who decides? It's the people who get involved.

Opportunities to get involved and start at the community level. Seeking public then comes naturally to those who care and have been successful amongst their peers. What happens beyond that as things get bigger (you need campaign financing or wealth to fuel it yourself) is the problem. In Europe some governments had money
set aside to finance candidates campaigns equally. Perhaps that's an idea.

I would love that kind of property. And you would be considerate if you had neighbors and other people nearby. Sadly, not everyone is like that.

Thank you for participating. Good chat.

It is California.  Does this surprise anyone?  

DrACE Posted at 2016-8-9 02:39
It is California.  Does this surprise anyone?

Elections have consequences

I have to say I'm utterly confused about what goes on in the USA, in a country of 300 million people you chose to give your people the choice between Donald Trump & Hillary Clinton, to run your Country !!!, Americans must accept some of the blame for the politicians and legislatures they elect to legislate these laws you now find yourselves at odds with, I do support your right to fly UAV's as a hobby or past time within rules that are fair to everyone, but please accept that you bear some responsibility for the people you vote for, and when it comes around next just think about the people you vote for.
I truly hope these daft laws are not pushed upon the people of CA enjoying what is overall a very safe and enjoyable hobby/pastime, A hobby/Pastime that is so much less intrusive than mobile phones all forms of social media, Google and many many more organisations who intrude into your private lives on a daily basis, good luck.

Be carful who you put in public offic.  This will be just the start for you guys out West.