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The Inspire 1 camera... again
3300 15 2015-9-7
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Whispermode

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I've no doubt this has been covered, but I'd like to understand something from DJI/experienced users about the way the camera's movement is programmed...

Problem: when you yaw the I1 in 'Follow' mode (not FPV or Free), it's very difficult to get a smooth transition unless you have an abnormal amount of control over stick movement, which, mid-flight, is difficult.

To be clearer: if you were flying along a road, and wanted a gradual turn left or right, it's very difficult not to produce an initial bump in the panning... and it makes the video look cheap/mechanical.

Now, this is caused by the fact that, when you move the left stick left or right (yaw), it also moves the camera itself... try it if you haven't already by having the I1 on a table, powered on. Move the stick left and the camera will pan left.

However, if you then physically pick the I1 up and yaw it, the camera follows late in a fantastic fluid motion with no bump/jerk.

...so provided I haven't got a faulty set up (please confirm if you experience the same), why on earth is it designed this way, and can I turn it* off?

*'it' being: left stick yaw also pans camera.
2015-9-7
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dgmultimedia
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PaulKerry Posted at 2015-9-7 20:47
That's exactly the behaviour I experience. I don't think that this is unusual or faulty.
It is this  ...

Its worth turning up the "Expo" on the YAW axis ( its in the Controller Settings Advanced I think)
helps with accelerating the Pan smoothly - also helps at the other end providing you don't just centre the stick with a jerk...
2015-9-7
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RichJ53
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Yes...

I believe this is normal and the result is much smoother video transitions. I noticed this during my Beta testing for AutoFlight Logic 2.0 using the beta firmware 4.00.06   It works great for me.

Rich
2015-9-7
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Whispermode

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RichJ53 Posted at 2015-9-7 21:23
Yes...

I believe this is normal and the result is much smoother video transitions. I noticed this d ...

Hi Rich,

I'm not sure I follow; the result of this functionality (for me at least) is the opposite of smoother video transitions.

If you could turn it off, video transitions would be super-smooth. You can test this by carrying the I1 in your hand and yawing it. You'll notice that the camera shadows what the aircraft is doing but with a fluid delay. Record video of this and see how great the panning looks.

...we need an off switch.
2015-9-7
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sultangris01
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Try to learn to fly more smoothly, adjusting stick sensitivity settings may help.  Slow steady movements, try not to go too fast, there is a slight video delay that might be making the problem worse if you fly while watching the screen.  Its actually moving before the screen moves so its easy to think it isnt and give it more stick movement than is required.
2015-9-7
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SimplePanda
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What you're seeing (camera tilting on table) is a byproduct of the way Zenmuse gimbals stabilize themselves...

The Zenmuse gimbal has it's own IMU that it uses to determine if the camera is level. Additionally, the gimbal controller (GCU) receives data over CANBUS from the flight controller about both flight controller stabilization (IMU data that is keeping the copter level) as well as transmitter control interface.

Basically, the GCU combines all data to arrive at a likely "best position" for the camera to keep it stabile in flight.

On the ground, the flight stick input is in conflict with the IMU data; the sticks are saying "banking left" but the IMU's are saying "no, we're not". This confuses the GCU as I don't think the algorithm is designed for this.

If you pitch the sticks over on the ground and then leave them there, you'll notice the camera slowly returns to level as the IMU data starts to outweigh the anticipation of movement based on the stick inputs.
2015-9-7
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Machoman
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dgmultimedia@me Posted at 2015-9-7 21:54
Its worth turning up the "Expo" on the YAW axis ( its in the Controller Settings Advanced I think) ...

Make it higher? does it not move faster and make less smooth video then?
2015-9-7
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Whispermode

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Guys,

Thanks, but please read my posts again.

@sultangris01. It's difficult to describe how smoothly I've learnt to fly in trying to combat this problem without sounding a bit unhinged. I'm talking months of just practising smooth turns (from straights) on open pieces of land at different speeds and then reviewing hours of footage. The control of the I1 is not the issue, it's the fact the yaw stick also pans the camera.

You're giving me the standard answer to something that doesn't work intuitively or as it should. I don't want to concern myself with moving the left stick in increments of 0.1mm to get decent panning because there's a piece of functionality that's ill-configured. The tech already exists as proven by 'Free' mode and observing video if you physically yaw the aircraft in your hand.

@SimplePanda. I haven't mentioned tilt or pitch anywhere in this thread. The issue can be observed as follows (but it may not be the case for all I1s):

  • Power up I1 on the floor (no need for motors to be spinning)
  • Ensure 'Follow' mode is active
  • Yaw the aircraft left, so left stick to the left
  • ...the camera will turn about 30 degrees to the left and then recentre when you let go or bring it back [the same applies to the right]

It does this relatively abruptly, therefore ruining 90% of video shots when turning is required. I've extended the height of the left stick (it's adjustable) to utilize lever mechanics i.e. greater movement required at the physical input to achieve an output. I've done the same in the software. Exhaustively.
It shouldn't be like this and wouldn't be if you could turn it off. It almost feels like it's been set up as a Master/Slave hybrid when using a single control.
2015-9-7
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sultangris01
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Whispermode Posted at 2015-9-7 17:10
Guys,

Thanks, but please read my posts again.

fair enough, i only mentioned it cause im not experiencing this behavior, but I did have problems when i first started flying and it took me a long time to master flying/turning slowly and smoothly while recording.  Ill have to test it when i get a chance.  I did notice the camera move while on the ground like you describe but i believe panda's explanation that this doesnt happen in the air.  

Here is a video i shot recently and I dont see any such behavior in it, do you? I never adjust the camera left or right, i turn the whole drone and leave the camera locked in forward mode whatever its called.  This was taken in some pretty heavy wind which makes it challenging to fly smoothly and i cant say this is my best display of flying skill, my camera up/down movements could be improved but im happy with the side to side results and it doesnt appear my camera is moving the same way in the air as it does on the ground when i give the turn command, looks pretty smooth to me given the wind.  There was a couple times it pushed my turn farther than i wanted so i came back a little but i never see the camera waiver from dead center of the bird while turning slowly.



I could only say maybe try an IMU,  compass, camera gimble, and controller calibrations to see if anything changes.  Its been a while since i messed with those settings but i think there are camera gimble sensitivity settings or something as well, Im running old firmware and old app version though so maybe thats a factor.  How long have you had yours and has it happened since you got it?
2015-9-7
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RichJ53
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Whispermode Posted at 2015-9-7 13:43
Hi Rich,

I'm not sure I follow; the result of this functionality (for me at least) is the opposit ...

okay, The camera leads with the turn is all I was saying. For me it seems pretty smooth. So when you give left tail rotor (spin left) the camera turns into the left turn.  

Rich
2015-9-7
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Whispermode

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PaulKerry Posted at 2015-9-7 23:13
The "expo" setting adjusts the curve of response.
If the response were linear, we might expect that ...

Paul,

The theory's right, but I think you've got X and Y confused.

If the the curve is convex (steeper) on the top right of the quadrant, the logical output (Y), requires less (a lower ratio of...) physical input (X). The steeper the curve, the more aggressive the initial movement.

It's to be turned down - a concave curve. I think (without looking) the default is 0.40 and the minimum is 0.30, and it doesn't make any noticeable difference on my I1.

Machoman is right to question because the statement is wrong.
2015-9-8
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Whispermode

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sultangris01@gm Posted at 2015-9-7 23:51
fair enough, i only mentioned it cause im not experiencing this behavior, but I did have problems  ...

Firstly, this is fantastic footage and exceptional control of the bird - really very impressive. However, it's littered with the behavior I'm talking about.

Look at the two jolts between 2 and 3 seconds, and another at 40 seconds. I'm not going to list the rest. This is unquestionably some of the best single shot sequencing I've seen from an I1, but if you think you're not experiencing it, you're deluded.

...and I mean this as constructive feedback because I can see you know what you're doing, but footage with these types of jolts in, whilst great for surveillance/surveying, would be on the cutting room floor in film/high-value marketing.
2015-9-8
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Whispermode

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RichJ53 Posted at 2015-9-8 05:08
okay, The camera leads with the turn is all I was saying. For me it seems pretty smooth. So when y ...

Rich,

This is a much better summary of the problem than mine, thanks... the camera leads when yawing, which in a mode called 'Follow', is wrong.

Do you notice smoother transitions with the Auto Flight Logic app? It's about to drop in the App Store so could be good...
2015-9-8
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Whispermode

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PaulKerry Posted at 2015-9-8 11:15
If I recall, it's not possible to configure for a convex curve.
When I said "steeper", I was reall ...

Thanks Paul - understood.

OK, looking at the app now, 0.30 up to 0.50 is a concave (so slower initial response), and 0.50 to 0.70 is convexed (faster initial response).

As you've highlighted, if the default is 0.40, you only have 0.1 of change when reducing to 0.30. Conversely, you have 0.3 to play with when moving up to 0.70... it's a shame it's not the other way around, right?

0.70 gives the steepest initial curve (just for info).

I tremor too. Age, pressure, excitement etc. I initially attributed the 'hard edged step' (like that explanation...) to this, but I've solved the shakes with beta blockers (:-) not really), with one of these (it's all in the hand position for me), and it's still far from usable (but hugely better).
I still maintain that if we had the option to turn off 'camera leads when yawing' (thanks, Rich), and turn on 'camera follows when yawing', we'd be in a really good place with this kit.
2015-9-8
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Machoman
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Since I have the Inspire it was always 0,3-0,7 while 0,3 is still not enough for smoot movement. The posting I was questioning actually adviced to set it UP = --> 0,7. I tried different exp AND gain settings and made lots of test videos but basically I try to avoid yaw movements and use the camera instead.

I also have this problem in the follow mode and try to avoid yaw movements at all. I would need a camera setting of 15% as 10% is too slow to follow something but 20% are already a little to fast on the video result.
2015-9-8
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sultangris01
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Whispermode Posted at 2015-9-8 16:33
Firstly, this is fantastic footage and exceptional control of the bird - really very impressive. H ...

Thanks, I don't really see the effect you're talking about I guess. I'm no professional photographer but I thought it looked pretty smooth.  I'll take your word for it.
2015-9-8
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