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When did you crash due to a NONE human error ?
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Willie Wonka
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United States
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Please help me here in finding a trend regarding the effect of the solar cycle and phantom crashes.

I know many of you think i lost my marbles but please play along and put in the date and time where your phantom crashed and the cause of the crash (other than your error of oops factor).


2015-9-8
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aburkefl
First Officer
Flight distance : 78612 ft
United States
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I've had two "skirmishes" and they were both pilot error. Ran into a tree and ran into a wire. On running into the tree - I got disoriented and actually backed into the tree!

I have another quad (actually two or three more) that had a mishap. Don't ask me about that one. It was most definitely a "flyaway" but it was not a Phantom. In fairness, the support guys for that "other" quad are still of the opinion that I did something improper. I don't agree, but they replaced my quad - it was still in the warranty period.
2015-9-8
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Willie Wonka
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United States
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aburkefl@gmail. Posted at 2015-9-8 16:56
I've had two "skirmishes" and they were both pilot error. Ran into a tree and ran into a wire. On ru ...

Yeah I too had daring experiences where I was crusing between trees and had close calls of kissing the branches and thank god I avoided them fast enough.
2015-9-8
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jestancil54
New

United States
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I have had three crashes. The last one was the real deal. All three lost GPS signal. Each crash was in open space. I own over 100 acres of land, I use it to scout wildlife. I have logged over 100 hours of flight time. Flight log showed the exact time the GPS unit failed. I say failed because there is no other reason for it to happen. I am also a certified electronics major. I deal everyday with 2.4 GHZ and 5 GHZ signals. I will repair it this time but if it fails again, that will not be a good thing. One last thought, you should always do a frequency scan before you take flight, the Auto setting may also be an issue in some areas, it could be clear on one channel but once it gets to say 200 feet the auto could be freaking out and causing channel loss, Cell towers can other Ti can really cause issues.
2015-9-8
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kairkyo161
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United States
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heightened electro-magnetic interference from solar storms can both affect compass bearing and GPS signals. 2 weeks ago when the k-index was at 5-6 i was drifting everywhere, flash forward to now and the copter can hold its position even with 10 mph gusts
2015-9-8
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grangerfx
First Officer
Flight distance : 817713 ft
United States
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I would argue that return to home through a pile of rocks that blocked the control signal is dumb programming not human error. The shortest and safest direction to a good control signal is to retrace its GPS path. USR calls this "rewind" but I call it a basic and required feature of any GPS drone.
2015-9-8
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rayrokni
Captain
Flight distance : 8139875 ft
United States
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never, always been my fault
2015-9-8
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Willie Wonka
First Officer

United States
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jestancil54 Posted at 2015-9-8 17:58
I have had three crashes. The last one was the real deal. All three lost GPS signal. Each crash was  ...

Can you give us the dates and times here ?
2015-9-8
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Willie Wonka
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grangerfx@gmail Posted at 2015-9-8 18:17
I would argue that return to home through a pile of rocks that blocked the control signal is dumb pr ...

Yes that would be great considering all the stuff it does in the air would make this as an ultra fail safe, and I think DJI can make that as an option in the fail safe modes.
2015-9-8
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Willie Wonka
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-8 18:20
never, always been my fault

Ray remember you live in the mandated radio quite zone so you are very safe from any ground interference.
2015-9-8
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rayrokni
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Willie Wonka Posted at 2015-9-8 18:35
Ray remember you live in the mandated radio quite zone so you are very safe from any ground interf ...

Huh?i dont get it! sorry been in the sun too long today, willie
2015-9-8
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Willie Wonka
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-8 18:38
Huh?i dont get it! sorry been in the sun too long today, willie


Here you go:

Web link
2015-9-8
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rayrokni
Captain
Flight distance : 8139875 ft
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oh, i got you. no quiet zone here though!!
2015-9-8
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brycerichert
lvl.4
United States
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Always my fault so far on every crash. Doesn't really answer your question. Sorry.
2015-9-8
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aburkefl
First Officer
Flight distance : 78612 ft
United States
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grangerfx@gmail Posted at 2015-9-8 18:17
I would argue that return to home through a pile of rocks that blocked the control signal is dumb pr ...

I would like to politely take issue with that attitude. perhaps one of those "...we agree that we disagree..." situations.

There seems to be too much perception that the Phantom can be flown behind obstacles. After all, it's using GPS isn't it? (tongue firmly in cheek) Until such time as signals are relayed from the controller to a satellite and then to the Phantom, a highly sophisticated system would be required to identify that (a) an object has come between the controller and the Phantom and (b) what to do about it.

The (b) what to do about part already exists. Each user is responsible for a "failsafe height" on their Phantom. In the event the controlling signal is lost, the Phantom is supposed to ascend/descend to the failsafe height and then RTH. Obviously, the failsafe height needs to be sufficiently high that some other unknown obstacle is not suddenly in the way. Keeping in mind, of course, that if RTH is engaged (either auto or manual), it's going to take the most direct path available back to what it thinks is the Home Point.

How many posts have you seen where the user stated that he/she went behind a building/tree/pile of rocks/hill (fill in the blank) and the Phantom tried to engage RTH and ran into something on the way back?

That, to me, is a classic definition of pilot error. The failsafe altitude was obviously too low.

Move down here to Florida where it's pretty flat pretty much all over the place. The failsafe RTH can be pretty low. Years ago I rode a bicycle for a week in Vermont. One day we went up a steep hill (700 feet change in elevation within two miles) and someone asked us if we practiced hills before coming on the ride. My response was that there isn't anywhere in Florida where there's a 700-foot change in elevation other than in a building!

Art Burke - N4PJ
Leesburg, FL
2015-9-9
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aburkefl
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Flight distance : 78612 ft
United States
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Ray lives in a part of West Virginia where they have to pump daylight in. Will that cause interference with his Phantom(s)?

Just kidding, Ray!
2015-9-9
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walid666
lvl.2

Saudi Arabia
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7 crashes in the first week ( 29-6 sept ) usually flying from 3 GMT to 9 GMT and then from 12 gmt to 7 GMT ,
3 tangles in trees, one which was 2 km away.
4 hit the wall and the tv...
then never a single crash in 240km..

had couple of esc and compass messages

i just change the props and recalibrate it. the messages never showed up again.

the bird is good now but facing some instability and drifts,,, dunno if its the solar storm or the new firmware .. today it held up very well although the k index is around 6.

2015-9-9
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SpunOne69
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United States
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Most of this could be avoided by "reading" and "understanding" the instructions both in the manuals and on the forums...just my opinion
2015-9-9
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Jeff_L
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aburkefl@gmail. Posted at 2015-9-9 07:20
I would like to politely take issue with that attitude. perhaps one of those "...we agree that we d ...

Art - I agree with you as well.  I'm in MO, and it's not too hilly here either, however, I set my RTH pretty high because you just never know if there'll be a water or radio tower between you and the drone when something happens that initiates the RTH.  In my opinion, straightest path back to me, at an altitude that ensures that I'll be above anything around, is the safest for my investment.  The only thing I worry about is a power situation, which, would most likely be pilot error.  Just wish there was a parachute option on the P3 that based on certain things would deploy and bring it down safely.  (of course I might be opening a can of worms with that statement, but I would like that insurance policy)

As for the earlier statement of following the GPS route back, while a terrific idea, I would be afraid of running out of battery before the drone made it back.
2015-9-9
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heyandy
lvl.3
Flight distance : 413009 ft
United States
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grangerfx@gmail Posted at 2015-9-8 18:17
I would argue that return to home through a pile of rocks that blocked the control signal is dumb pr ...

Yes, but how does the drone rewind a 20 minute flight with only 4 minutes of battery life left?
That is not a real option unless you somehow also put in logic that at the halfway point is the cut off to "rewind"..  But you can't do that either because how does the software know how hard you will "push" the drone in the second half (i.e. the first half you keep your speed around 10 to 15 mph, second half you keep climbing at high speeds and flying at 30 mph per hour).
Yeah, that just adds way more complexity to the programming that can't be "solved".  They gave you the easiest solution possible, set a return to home height greater than anything in your flying area and fly a straight path back.
2015-9-9
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Flight Raptor
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Flight distance : 1262713 ft
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Jeff_L Posted at 2015-9-10 00:01
Art - I agree with you as well.  I'm in MO, and it's not too hilly here either, however, I set my  ...

You may be interested in this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/proj ... fety?ref=nav_search
2015-9-9
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aburkefl
First Officer
Flight distance : 78612 ft
United States
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Flight Raptor Posted at 2015-9-9 13:02
You may be interested in this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1748637868/mayday-the-future-o ...

Saw a parachute system one day - $800, Maybe just buy a Standard instead?
2015-9-10
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Flight Raptor
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1262713 ft
United States
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aburkefl@gmail. Posted at 2015-9-10 06:17
Saw a parachute system one day - $800, Maybe just buy a Standard instead?

If you've used an Advanced or a Professional Phantom 3, I think you'll be disappointed if you went to a Standard.  There are a lot of 'extras' on an Advanced/Professional that aren't on the Standard.  To name a few:

* No VPS system
* No connection to GLONASS satellites...only US GPS Sats
* No Lightbridge FPV, so video reception gets lost at a much shorter distance than advanced/professional


BTW, The parachute system I pointed you to (that has already met it's goal, so definitely should be shipping in Dec timeframe) is only $159 (includes controller and parachute)
2015-9-10
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albanomcbaptist
lvl.2

Portugal
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crash at 11 AM
2015-9-10
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Willie Wonka
First Officer

United States
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if its the one regarding your other thread due to VPS jumping, that does not relate to what i am tracking which is solar radiation effects on radio signals.
2015-9-10
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Jeff_L
lvl.1

United States
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Flight Raptor Posted at 2015-9-9 10:02
You may be interested in this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1748637868/mayday-the-future-o ...

Thanks, that looks like a solution.  Good to see they've exceeded their goal.
2015-9-11
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HunterBrooks
Second Officer

United States
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Willie Wonka Posted at 2015-9-8 15:35
Ray remember you live in the mandated radio quite zone so you are very safe from any ground interf ...

There is no radio interference in WV cause radios haven't been invented there yet.  

Ray?  Who luvs ya?

Now, before kicking CA to the curb, the Gov did veto the 350' NFZ over private property bill.  So some resemblance to logical thinking still exists here.

But, I am originally from Jersey, so let the stone throwing begin ......  : )
2015-9-11
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Willie Wonka
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HunterBrooks Posted at 2015-9-11 13:52
There is no radio interference in WV cause radios haven't been invented there yet.  

Ray?  Who luv ...

Thank god he veto'ed it, i wonder how much money did he get to press that button ??? ahem i meant to say how much convincing did it take him from citizens and open letters ?

Just make sure you are careful when driving thru WV lol its wild and whacky ahem i meant wonderful....
2015-9-11
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vu.q.le
Banned

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2015-9-11
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vu.q.le
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Tip: the author has been banned or deleted automatically shield
2015-9-11
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erik.brossmanfa
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Flight Raptor Posted at 2015-9-10 01:02
You may be interested in this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1748637868/mayday-the-future-o ...

Neat idea, horrible design. That thing would look silly dangling on top. Plus, it has to affect the flight performance of the drone. I know they design the body for the least amount of drag. They need a system that hugs and follows the form of the phantom and deploys like an airbag deploys in a car, or something.
2015-9-11
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jestancil54
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United States
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vu.q.le@outlook Posted at 2015-9-11 14:21
How are you scanning the frequencies? How do you go about picking the best channel?

Open the DJI app, in the top right hand side you will see a logo with a remote and a signal bar. Touch it and it opens a channel Transmission summary. They give us channels 13,14,15,16,17,18,19 and 20. In the auto mode the system scans trying to find the cleanest of the channels. Red bar is bad, Green bar is good. Place it in this mode in you home and watch the channels as they scan. Pay attention to what is going on.
Then when you are in the field do the same thing and compare. I also am in the wireless internet business and I have a spectrum analyzer that I will start using more since the last crash.
One last thing be very careful of Micro-Wave towers. Yes we still use them and I think that was the reason for my last crash. Nasty lot of TI.
2015-9-11
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Willie Wonka
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jestancil54 Posted at 2015-9-11 17:19
Open the DJI app, in the top right hand side you will see a logo with a remote and a signal bar. T ...

Yeah if you hit the path of an uplink microwave that is sure to make your phantom disappear from your sight signal wise and phantom wise, it is like going into a waterfall but that would be going thru a waterfall of concentrated high-power data stream.
2015-9-11
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grangerfx
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aburkefl@gmail. Posted at 2015-9-9 04:20
I would like to politely take issue with that attitude. perhaps one of those "...we agree that we d ...

Let's be honest: If the fail safe had been implemented to return along the original course when it was first implemented and then changed to go directly to the home point, everyone would be mad as heck. Sure blame the operator for not knowing how high a pile of rocks is over a hundred yards away by looking at it (rocks look the same at every scale) but if the phantom had returned along its path it would not have crashed.
2015-9-14
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grangerfx
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heyandy Posted at 2015-9-9 09:45
Yes, but how does the drone rewind a 20 minute flight with only 4 minutes of battery life left?
Th ...

You don't need to rewind a 20 minute flight. You just need to rewind until the drone is back in line of sight with the controller. The shortest distance is back along the path. Once it has communication with the controller, you can fly it back to yourself safely. Trust me. If you had this feature you would love it.
2015-9-14
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heyandy
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grangerfx@gmail Posted at 2015-9-14 13:20
You don't need to rewind a 20 minute flight. You just need to rewind until the drone is back in li ...

So explain to me again why asking the flyer of the drone to just simply confirm one value is too difficult to handle and not a simple solution?
I have my RTH fail-safe set at 50m, anywhere I typically fly that is more than sufficient to clear anything.  As part of my pre-flight I always confirm the setting and do a quick scan of my area to see if I need to adjust the number.
The only situation this would not work is you are flying UNDER something (trees, buildings, etc.) that would impede the quad from climbing.  If you plan on doing so, change the fail-safe to hover or land.
2015-9-15
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Sir Edward K
Second Officer

United States
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Today,  Crash was mine and mother nature's fault trying to land it too much wind in ATTI Mode with no damage.  But it was not my fault I had to switch to ATTI mode right after take off to try to save it from crashing.  This could be solar related.  After I got home I noticed that it had changed from a 4 when I took off to a 5.

September 19 at 1:00 PM - 2:00 PM Central time (I think).
2015-9-19
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Willie Wonka
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Sir Edward K Posted at 2015-9-19 20:40
Today,  Crash was mine and mother nature's fault trying to land it too much wind in ATTI Mode with n ...

Yeah today is one of the calmest days SOLAR wise, tomorrow on the other hand there is some nasty solar storms as the Ki will rise from 0 to 5 in hours.
2015-9-19
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grangerfx
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heyandy Posted at 2015-9-15 06:27
So explain to me again why asking the flyer of the drone to just simply confirm one value is too d ...

I fly in the California and Nevada mountains. It is tough to judge relative elevations at a significant distance. If you set the RTH height too low, it will crash. If you set it too high, it may try to ascend when it is low on battery and you won't get it down again before it crashes. Then there is the chance that something could be above the drone like a high bridge. There is a very high bridge near me,  in fact one of the highest. Then there are all the other unexpected situations like branches on overhanging trees. Return along path is the ONLY safe direction for the drone to go when it loses contact with the controller and the shortest distance to go to regain control. DJI will add this feature one day and when they do you won't believe you ever flew without it. It is a great feature and will save many crashes and lost drones.
2015-10-2
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heyandy
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grangerfx@gmail Posted at 2015-10-3 01:39
I fly in the California and Nevada mountains. It is tough to judge relative elevations at a signifi ...

If you example only involves losing contact with the controller, there are only two basic cases for this to happen.
- You fly out of range.  In which case your solution the quad is going to back up 2 or 3 feet and regain contact and you have control again.  
- Your remote battery dies, is dropped, or has it's own software issue and can not longer communicate with the drone.  Your 15 minutes into flying around and now you want the drone to back track 15 minutes when the battery won't support the return trip.  Is that one on DJI also?  Was that a safe return?

It goes back to simplicity, the pilot has more responsibility in having a "safe" flight than coming up with the 3 or 4 situations where a simple direct RTH at a set altitude is not the best option.  Because in the end, the 3 or 4 situations you are going to come up with is the pilot not understanding the environment they are flying in..
2015-10-6
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