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method007
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So the X5 still has a limit of 60mbps.  Does that not severely limit the benefits of the X5 in the first place?  It seems like the only real benefit is the aperture control.  It seems like the X3 has the ability to take better video, but it's limited by the compression.  Am I off base here?
2015-9-10
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RDTeam43
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The quality of X5@60Mbps is much better than X3@60Mbps. And we will soon see the comparisons between it and GH4.
2015-9-10
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Machoman
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I doubt the X3 would perform much better with 100Mbps as the main problem is the way tooooo small chip it has.
2015-9-11
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rockliffe
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Absolutely, I agree. It's the one thing that, as a pro cameraman , really bugs me. That awful mushiness when flying around trees or grass, horrible. I'm gobsmacked that this has only been addressed with the X5R and not also the X5.
2015-9-11
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rockliffe
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RDTeam43 Posted at 2015-9-11 05:45
The quality of X5@60Mbps is much better than X3@60Mbps. And we will soon see the comparisons between ...

Hi, can you expand on this please. How does the X5 60Mbps become better than the X3 60Mbps?
2015-9-11
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sultangris01
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rockliffe@btcon Posted at 2015-9-11 12:36
Hi, can you expand on this please. How does the X5 60Mbps become better than the X3 60Mbps?

2x as fast, 2x as good presumable, whats not to understand?
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rockliffe
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sultangris01@gm Posted at 2015-9-11 18:41
2x as fast, 2x as good presumable, whats not to understand?


Well what's not to understand is simple. A data transfer speed of 60Mbps on one camera is the same data transfer speed of 60Mbps on another. Hence why I'd appreciate an explanation as to the statement "The quality of X5@60Mbps is much better than X3@60Mbps."
2015-9-11
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sultangris01
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rockliffe@btcon Posted at 2015-9-11 12:55
Well what's not to understand is simple. A data transfer speed of 60Mbps on one camera is the same ...

oh my bad, i misread that and thought it said the x3 only had 30Mbps, heh, nevermind, sorry!

2015-9-11
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sultangris01@gm Posted at 2015-9-11 13:41
2x as fast, 2x as good presumable, whats not to understand?

Bitrate is hugely important. More than any other spec. Id take 100mbps 1080p over 60mbps 4K every time. You don't know what you're talking about.
2015-9-11
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sultangris01
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keenraven Posted at 2015-9-11 13:05
Bitrate is hugely important. More than any other spec. Id take 100mbps 1080p over 60mbps 4K every  ...

yes i read it wrong, as i explained in the post prior to yours, i didnt know what i was talking about, sorry.
2015-9-11
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keenraven

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sultangris01@gm Posted at 2015-9-11 14:07
yes i read it wrong, as i explained in the post prior to yours, i didnt know what i was talking ab ...

I tried to delete it when i saw your reaponse, but apparently you cant on mobile >_<
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keenraven

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Anyway, yes, the compression is a huge issue for the X5, and is why we aren't getting one.
2015-9-11
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rockliffe
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The data transfer speed is extremely important and one that remains so if you're involved with supplying material for TV companies. The fact that your shooting 4K is irrelevant for 99% of the time, but the transfer speed is critical. I agree with Keen, much better to have a fast transfer speed at 1080 than a slower speed at 4K, at least as far as I'm concerned. I get a little tired when reading so much drivle on forums about resolution and 4K this and 4K that. Sure, it has it's place, and it's convenient to have the option to recompose shots and zoom in and soforth in post, but at the end of the day, as cinematographers it's important to get a good quality overall image, not just one aspect of that image. It's no good having fantastic, pin sharp resolution with a stunning dynamic range if, when under some situations, like flying above trees or over grasslands, the data transfer speed cannot process the data fast enough and half the image becomes a mulch!
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keenraven

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rockliffe@btcon Posted at 2015-9-11 14:16
The data transfer speed is extremely important and one that remains so if you're involved with suppl ...

Exactly. And woth a low bit rate, good luck zooming on 4K anyway- it's going to look terrible.
2015-9-11
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sultangris01
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keenraven Posted at 2015-9-11 13:09
I tried to delete it when i saw your reaponse, but apparently you cant on mobile >_

yea mobile functionality on this forum leaves much to be desired, but i dont think you can delete from a computer either to be honest.  no worries.
2015-9-11
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SimplePanda
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rockliffe@btcon Posted at 2015-9-11 13:35
Absolutely, I agree. It's the one thing that, as a pro cameraman , really bugs me. That awful mushin ...

Turbulent water is also particularly unpleasant with the X3 gimbal at 60Mbps (4K)... and it's not much better at the 1080p rates (25Mbps for 1080p/24 is a problem).
That's very much a bitrate issue. 60Mbps at 4k is never really going to handle surf well, no matter what the sensor or encoder. Just isn't enough bits in the stream to handle that many pixels in motion.
2015-9-11
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rockliffe
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keenraven Posted at 2015-9-11 19:19
Exactly. And woth a low bit rate, good luck zooming on 4K anyway- it's going to look terrible.


No keen, if you are shooting at 4k you can zoom in quite substantially due to the extra resolution. I'm talking if you're rendering out to 1080.
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keenraven

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rockliffe@btcon Posted at 2015-9-11 14:40
No keen, if you are shooting at 4k you can zoom in quite substantially due to the extra resolution ...

Not with a 60mbps bitrate you cant. If you zoom into 1080p, you're doing a 4x crop, meaning your final 1080p image is only 15mbps... And that looks terrible. Already at 4K, 60mbps isnt enough, and you're losing data as soon as you start cropping it in to zoom. The more you "zoom", the worse it will look.
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keenraven

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rockliffe@btcon Posted at 2015-9-11 14:40
No keen, if you are shooting at 4k you can zoom in quite substantially due to the extra resolution ...

Now if youre shooting 4K raw, or in ProRes, yes, you have a lot more data to work with and can "zoom" without a significant loss in quality.
2015-9-11
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rockliffe
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Waiting to hear from RDTeam43
2015-9-11
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healbunny
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The X5 is already at a ridiculous price point, no reason to buy another camera with 60Mbps.
I will buy one if it have more than 100 Mbps and also support 128 GB and up mircosd card.
Also, the X5 will be more weight, and use more power, which will reduce the flight time for sure.
2015-9-11
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rockliffe
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healbunny Posted at 2015-9-11 20:31
The X5 is already at a ridiculous price point, no reason to buy another camera with 60Mbps.
I will  ...

Again, I agree. I am extremely happy with the material I get from the Inspire. The only gripe I have ever had with it is the data transfer speed.
2015-9-11
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Tharg (from the
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Interesting......so, we are told that the X5 will record 4k video and the woefully same inadequate bitrate as the X3 but the 'quality will be much better'.  So, if they are using the same codec and GOP structure as the X3 there will be no improvement and purchasing the X5 over the X3 will be a wasted exercise (except for DJI's bank account). I am not talking about the X5R here, that's a completely different animal, but the X5 sounds totally useless (unless you count losing flight time due to the extra weight a 'feature').
2015-9-11
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rockliffe
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Tharg (from the Posted at 2015-9-11 20:42
Interesting......so, we are told that the X5 will record 4k video and the woefully same inadequate b ...


Well, in fairness, there is the upped dynamic range and the option to change lenses, but apart from that I'm not sure. Oh, the stills, now 16mp instead of 10. However, I'd have to download a DNG file first and see what it looks like making a 16"x12" lab print off it.
2015-9-11
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method007
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I feel like the X5 was made just so there could be a "Pro" version of the Inspire 1.  I feel like it was made because there are so many people getting into quad's now, it would be easy for DJI to sell the "Pro" version of the Inspire 1 based solely on the specs to people who may be "in the know", but may not know enough.  I doubt a lot of people are really digging into things like bitrate.  This was a huge opportunity for DJI and it really fell flat.  You would have to be rich, the government, or a complete fool to put that $4,500 raw camera on something that has no redundancies.  When my cell phone can do half the bitrate that my $3,500 quad can do - that's a problem.  It's just sad, I was really looking forward to a new camera.
2015-9-11
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Burlingtonfilms
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The 60/mbs compression on 4K video is a huge bottle neck for these cameras.  

DJI if you are listening please give us some kind of 4:2:2, higher bit rate codec.
2015-9-11
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jimhare
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Pros will go straight to the X5R and bypass this discussion completely.   The only question you have to answer is whether you are happy with the current compression and just want more control and a more pleasing image.  If the answer is YES then the X5 is an option.   If the answer is NO then get the X5R.

To me this is incredibly simple.
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jones5r
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jimhare Posted at 2015-9-11 21:42
Pros will go straight to the X5R and bypass this discussion completely.   The only question you have ...

Just to add on here, I'm curious to know why DJI decided to go with the old codec H.264 and not go to H.265. Jim, do you know of any benefits with staying with H.264?
2015-9-11
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SimplePanda
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jones5r Posted at 2015-9-12 01:04
Just to add on here, I'm curious to know why DJI decided to go with the old codec H.264 and not go ...

Workflow would be one.. Nothing really supports HEVC yet.
2015-9-11
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jack1144
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Out of curiosity, what do you all think the effect of bigger better glass (lens elements) would have even with the same bitrate?
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Tahoe_Ed
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jimhare Posted at 2015-9-11 18:42
Pros will go straight to the X5R and bypass this discussion completely.   The only question you have ...

Jim, you are right, DJI offers options.  X5 or X5R.  I have the X5 and I am happy.  I was offered to test a X5R, I have to say I have no interest.  I am not a professional videographer or photographer.  I passed.  If the X5 does not fit your needs then don't buy it.  Complaining about features that you want and DJI did not provide is not productive.  If you want a feature, then state that, don't bash DJI because they did not meet your personal expectations.  In my opinion this is a great camera.  I can use my GH4 Olympus lens on it if I choose.  The response at Interdrone was overwhelmingly positive.  If you have not seen it, flown it, touched it and seen the release video you are missing the whole picture.
2015-9-11
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Burlingtonfilms
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Not off base at all.  60/mbs for 4K is very highly compressed.  DJI got everything right about this camera except for putting in a higher bit rate and color space.
2015-9-12
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rockliffe
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I'm still waiting to hear a reply from the RD Team 43 regarding the statement... The quality of X5@60Mbps is much better than X3@60Mbps.
Please, I need this to be explained to me. I'm presuming RDTeam 43 is part of the DJI R&D team? In which case they should be able to give me an answer...??
2015-9-12
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Burlingtonfilms
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rockliffe@btcon Posted at 2015-9-12 19:12
I'm still waiting to hear a reply from the RD Team 43 regarding the statement... The quality of X5@6 ...

The quality will be the same.

It will be the new sensor and optics that make the footage look superior.
2015-9-12
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method007
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-9-12 01:43
Jim, you are right, DJI offers options.  X5 or X5R.  I have the X5 and I am happy.  I was offered  ...

You have footage from the X5?  Awesome! Can you please upload and link to a raw video that you took from the X5 please?  The compression is the only thing holding me back on the lens.  I'd like to see if the flickering is resolved as well.  That would be really helpful!!
2015-9-12
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rockliffe
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method007 Posted at 2015-9-13 03:10
You have footage from the X5?  Awesome! Can you please upload and link to a raw video that you too ...


Me too. I'm also extremely interested in downloading a DNG file, as photography also plays a big part in our business. If possible it would be very much appreciated.
2015-9-13
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remltr
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-9-11 23:43
Jim, you are right, DJI offers options.  X5 or X5R.  I have the X5 and I am happy.  I was offered  ...

"Complaining about features that you want and DJI did not provide is not productive.  If you want a feature, then state that, don't bash DJI because they did not meet your personal expectations."

I have to agree completely. While I would like a higher transfer rate, I believe the images will be so much better than the X3. It will be an improvement.

That being said, can the transfer rate be increased via a firmware update? And is the reason it is the same as the X3 due to a heat issue?
2015-9-13
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jimhare
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-9-12 16:43
Jim, you are right, DJI offers options.  X5 or X5R.  I have the X5 and I am happy.  I was offered  ...

Couldn't agree more!   No point complaining when there is a high end option that addresses the concerns.  If you don't like the compression, get the X5R.
2015-9-13
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rockliffe
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jimhare Posted at 2015-9-13 13:44
Couldn't agree more!   No point complaining when there is a high end option that addresses the con ...


Sure, a little like saying you're disappointed that a particular car doesn't perform as it should and then having it suggested "if you don't like it, buy a Ferrari!" if only life was so simple Jim. I really don't think it unreasonable to have expected the X5 to have a faster transfer speed than the X3. I mean, I have read dozens and dozens of gripes about that very issue on forums constantly since the release of the Inspire, so it's not like DJI didn't have any feedback, unless of course they don't read the forums!
2015-9-13
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Burlingtonfilms
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jimhare Posted at 2015-9-13 08:44
Couldn't agree more!   No point complaining when there is a high end option that addresses the con ...

I agree with you jim but there is still no middle ground in terms of codec.  Either raw, which is the highest digital 4k quality or h264 at 60/mbs at 4k which is one of the lowest in terms of quality.

Also the biggest gripe about the X3 was getting either a oversharpness or muddy look to your footage.  Not to mention the horrible flicker issue that was a constant complant from many DPs.

2015-9-13
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