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Test results for RC signal LOSS while using IOC.
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3232 73 2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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today i went out to test what would happen in case of rc signal loss while using waypoints and POI, here are the results:
Waypoints:
1-if area is not flat, i would keep the points at 33' or hifger, i set point one to around 5' and when initiated the mission, even though i was about 4' and about 5' height from the start point it did go down and hit the ground(no biggie i had chosen soft ground)
2- The most important in my Opinion: if you do not set it to go to home point when finished, it will end mission and hover. thats ok until there is a RC signal loss. i started the mission and left it to hover at the end of mission and then turned off the RC. it finished the mission and hovered til it hit critical and landed.(again i chose a soft spot, no danage).interesting part is when it hit low battery level it didnt do the normal thing which is to fly home, it just hovered and then landed once it hit critical. there can be many discussions on whether this is good or bad. it all depends on the mission and area. if you are above water, then it is not a good idea. i suggest when doing missions to set it to go home at the end and make sure you leave plenty of battery for it to do so. i suppose another good point on 500m limit.
3: i did the same mission and this time set it to go home at the end of mission. started the mission and turned off RC. it did finish and then returned home. i turned on RC once it was coming home and canceled the landing and turned switch to p-gps.


POI:
This one for me is the problem:
i started a poi mission and turned off RC. it just kept circling the POI, it would have just kept circling even though there was RC signal loss! it did not try to go home just kept circling. so the big question here is would it have just kept circling til it hit low batt level and then go home? or would it have, as in the waypoint reach critical and then land?
if you are 400' up in the air and 1000' out, it would not be able to go home on that battery level. I do understand that it is on the pilot to take absolutely everything in to account when setting up missions.


Moral of the story:
Would it not be safer for it to, regardless of whether in POI or waypoints, to abort the mission IMMEDIATELY and go home? IN CASES OF SIGNAL LOSS
PLEASE READ A FEW OF COMMENTS BEFORE MAKING UP YOUR MIND
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2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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my opinion is yes it should go home at any point rc signal is lost
2015-9-14
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stvnvicbc
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-14 15:27
my opinion is yes it should go home at any point rc signal is lost

agreed Ray.  Don't suppose i could talk you into doing another POI and take your battery to critical could I?  Results would be interesting to see.

You using the previously crashed model to do the testing?
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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stvnvicbc Posted at 2015-9-15 04:07
agreed Ray.  Don't suppose i could talk you into doing another POI and take your battery to critic ...

sure ill do it tomorrow, no i am using my new one. the old one doesnt have a gimbal yet so i cant update FW.
i take precautions, and you know what? if it gets damaged then it can be fixed or buy another! unfortunately technology and experience costs money.
I need to be able to trust the p3 100%(i know, we cant trust any machine 100%, but you know what i mean). its no good finding there is a problem in a component of the FW until its too late, i rather test and know the limitations in a safe and controlled environment to minimize damage to people, property and the unit itself. no good will come out of negative media because someone didnt know the limitations!!!
thanks
2015-9-14
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Rigworker
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I would think that RTH would be the way to go. There might be a problem if your waypoint puts you behind something and your RTH height is not set to clear it. Same if you were doing a POI of something and not actually anove it while circling.
2015-9-14
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markfrank
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HI,
If you circle around a building, and if your P3P has to stay more than 3s out of sight (out of RC) ,
its much better to continue circling than abort!
Markfrank
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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Rigworker Posted at 2015-9-15 04:31
I would think that RTH would be the way to go. There might be a problem if your waypoint puts you be ...

off course, that is why it is very important to know the whole area where one is flying. i encourage everyone to take extra few minutes pre flight, using google maps to know the terrain and once on site to do a survey, with binoculars if needed. setting the RTH height is of utmost importance and should be before every flight whether in ioc mode or p-gps or atti or whatever.
Thanks for reiterating the importance of a very over looked pre flight check item.
have fun
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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markfrank Posted at 2015-9-15 04:37
HI,
If you circle around a building, and if your P3P has to stay more than 3s out of sight (out of R ...

out of sight and out of rc are different. but i am sure you did mean rc signal loss. here the idea is that there is a malfunction that can not be recovered, ie: someone forgot to charge rc battery, or dropped the rc while flying, etc. if you compare the good VS the bad, imo, it would always be prudent to come back home as long as rth height has been set correctly pre flight.
2015-9-14
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Rigworker
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-14 14:42
out of sight and out of rc are different. but i am sure you did mean rc signal loss. here the idea ...

Ray, I did mean RC signal loss as you were discussing in your original post. I think RTH would be the best option except for the couple caveats I mentioned. Should your bird be on the backside of something (building, hill, whatever) while doing waypoints or POI and the RTH height isnt correct, it could run into the object.
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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Rigworker Posted at 2015-9-15 04:43
Ray, I did mean RC signal loss as you were discussing in your original post. I think RTH would be t ...

sorry it was meant for markfrank. sorry bud
2015-9-14
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Rigworker
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-14 14:47
sorry it was meant for markfrank. sorry bud

No worries. I thought I had explained it correctly. Then again, you are an American and I was speaking Canadian ;-)

Just kidding in case you dont see the smiley
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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Rigworker Posted at 2015-9-15 04:54
No worries. I thought I had explained it correctly. Then again, you are an American and I was speak ...

oh you by now know i have a sense of humor, as dry as it may be(from my up bringing in england), just kidding brits, dont go all crazy on me.

actually if you look just above the post you should be able to see that was in reply to markfrank!

in reply to your post i did say that i %100 agree with the RTH comment.

thanks
2015-9-14
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pi-inthesky
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Sureley any loss of control in any mode of flight puts it in the unsafe catergory RTH is all your left with for a safe return and hopefuly no damage to craft,property or persons
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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pi-inthesky@hot Posted at 2015-9-15 05:34
Sureley any loss of control in any mode of flight puts it in the unsafe catergory RTH is all your le ...

exactly, but in neither modes i mentioned, loss of signal does not cause immediate RTH.
2015-9-14
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ag0n
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Ray, you left a third choice out of your poll.  I would prefer the bird finish the mission and then RTH.  Your choices only say to RTH immediately, or leave it the way it is, which you state is to continue POI until it falls from the sky with no battery left.  Make a circle around the POI and then go home.
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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ag0n Posted at 2015-9-15 05:38
Ray, you left a third choice out of your poll.  I would prefer the bird finish the mission and then  ...

the two choices are after a SIGNAL LOSS!
the choice under normal circumstances would have to be a personal choice depending on location and what is planned to be done once the mission is finished
so u think i need to change it and make it more clear? i suppose i should!
thanks for the help
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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ag0n Posted at 2015-9-15 05:38
Ray, you left a third choice out of your poll.  I would prefer the bird finish the mission and then  ...

take a look now, u think its any better?
2015-9-14
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jaronpv
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Very interesting testing! Never thought about the POI continuing to circle after losing signal.  Ultimately, I think the best way for all of this to work would be to include these additional options in the setup of the Waypoint or POI.  For example, the settings for any mission would include a "In case of signal loss" drop down menu where you can choose one of the choices that were mentioned in this post.

Rayrokni, were you ever able to do the 2nd poi low battery test to see what it actually does?
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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jaronpv@hotmail Posted at 2015-9-15 06:01
Very interesting testing! Never thought about the POI continuing to circle after losing signal.  Ult ...

no i am baby sitting now!! i ll go out tomorrow and do a poi and kill the rc and see what happens. from what i saw today i think it will keep circling till critical batt hits and then it will land. obviously to minimize damage i will do it at the min height of 33'. my issue is what if it is at 400' up and 100' out. at critical batt it will just fall out of the sky!!!
but i aill test anyways and see
2015-9-14
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jaronpv
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-14 16:11
no i am baby sitting now!! i ll go out tomorrow and do a poi and kill the rc and see what happens. ...

I suppose one option, should the phantom choose the "hey, I'm dead, I'll fall to the ground now" option, would be to go in to your settings and raise your critical battery level from 10% to 20% or 30%.   Giving the phantom plenty of time to do a safer landing.   
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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jaronpv@hotmail Posted at 2015-9-15 06:15
I suppose one option, should the phantom choose the "hey, I'm dead, I'll fall to the ground now" o ...

yes that is what i would do right now, but imo, it shouldnt get to that point, when low level is hit it should go home not wait til critical is hit and then just land regardless of what is underneath!!!
2015-9-14
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jaronpv
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-14 16:17
yes that is what i would do right now, but imo, it shouldnt get to that point, when low level is h ...

Complete agreement.  I wonder if switching the smart go home feature on or off would influence whether or not it did indeed go home instead of waiting until critical?
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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jaronpv@hotmail Posted at 2015-9-15 06:19
Complete agreement.  I wonder if switching the smart go home feature on or off would influence whe ...

i doubt it very much, it acts totally oblivious to any go home feature. .... thing just keeps circling, lol.
i will find out tomorrow.
2015-9-14
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jaronpv
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-14 16:22
i doubt it very much, it acts totally oblivious to any go home feature. .... thing just keeps circ ...

well I look forward to the results of your test!  It may be that our best option is to increase our critical battery percentage and always try to keep a signal!
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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jaronpv@hotmail Posted at 2015-9-15 06:27
well I look forward to the results of your test!  It may be that our best option is to increase ou ...

yes  right now raising the critical seems the wisest choice but it still isnt going to come home in POI mode. i will try it tomorrow
2015-9-14
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Rnfaust
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I couldn't vote because there are too many variables.
Lost signals are always definite possibilities in both poi and waypoint scenarios. I'm not sure it's a good idea to cut a route straight back when the drone is in the middle. However the RTH altitude must be confirmed before you begin. Given that, it might not be a bad idea to come back.
The POI problem is wierd. I would like to know what Dji intended to make happen with a signal loss.
Regarding the waypoint problem, maybe the home point was close enough to the last waypoint that it just landed. What is it, 30 or 60 horizontal ft proximity where it will do that?
2015-9-14
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CaveDrone
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Awesome information!  I heartily commend you for taking the time to test out the various scenarios!   I for  one choose Go Home everytime!   My bird is more important than any video that I might miss
2015-9-14
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jaronpv
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CaveDrone Posted at 2015-9-14 17:18
Awesome information!  I heartily commend you for taking the time to test out the various scenarios!  ...

I agree.  I can always swap for a fresh battery, relocate to a position where I'll get better signal, and try again.  But I cant do that if my bird is Kaboom on the ground!
2015-9-14
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alirz1
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I thought the P3 was always set to RTH in case of critical or RC signal loss. No matter what.
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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alirz1 Posted at 2015-9-15 07:42
I thought the P3 was always set to RTH in case of critical or RC signal loss. No matter what.

not the case in ioc, thats why i want people to be aware of this as i believe it is going to cause a lot of unnecessary problems
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Willie Wonka
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-14 19:43
not the case in ioc, thats why i want people to be aware of this as i believe it is going to cause ...

Thank you so much ray for doing all this on your personal time and personal equipment.

POI should have an option of how many round trips it should make before returning home, not a forever loop around the POI.
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rayrokni
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Rnfaust Posted at 2015-9-15 06:54
I couldn't vote because there are too many variables.
Lost signals are always definite possibilitie ...

i just did two points one near home point and one about 1000' from waypoint. i killed the rc when it was 400' out.  rc signal loss could be the result of lets say for example, tge user dropping the rc and breaking it  or lack of attention to battery level of rc, not necessarily due to obstacles in the way. and off course the rth height has to be part of all pre flight checks!! therefore at any time signal is lost if rth height is set accordingly there is no danger of it running into anything. as cave drone said, safety or video? which is more important?
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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jaronpv@hotmail Posted at 2015-9-15 07:41
I agree.  I can always swap for a fresh battery, relocate to a position where I'll get better sign ...

i say again, signal loss could be because of many things, an obstacle in the way is one but one could drop rc, one could ve made a mistake and not chk battery, for example.
if rth height is set correctly before flight for the area you are flying, in my opinion there are no variables! safety dictates that it should return home instead of hovering and then landing or worse dropping out of the sky because we cant re establish connection for any number of reasons!
just my opinion, if the powers at hand see that this is not an issue, then i suppose i for one would choose not to use those features if i dont feel that i can trust it to come back safely. setting the critical battery to a higher percentage will be the only option for it to at least land safely, but what if it is going to land in water or in the volcano in the DJI videos or.......
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rayrokni
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Willie Wonka Posted at 2015-9-15 07:48
Thank you so much ray for doing all this on your personal time and personal equipment.

POI should ...

thanks willie, just trying to avoid people loosing or worse damaging people and property because they were under the assumption that signal loss means automatic RTH in IOC POI MODE and waypoints if not set to return home.
at least if nothing gets done about this, people will know of the issue and can decide accordingly.
knowledge is power
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Willie Wonka
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-14 20:03
thanks willie, just trying to avoid people loosing or worse damaging people and property because t ...

Yeah thats for sure, and i tested the (follow me) the other day and it WILL stay and hover forever if RC signal is lost
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rayrokni
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Willie Wonka Posted at 2015-9-15 08:06
Yeah thats for sure, and i tested the (follow me) the other day and it WILL stay and hover forever ...

unless you set it to home before u initiate mission. but in poi mode the sob will just keep circling til it hits critical batt level and then land or drop like a greased rock if at high altitude and batt critical set to %10.
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L8again
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rayrokni Posted at 2015-9-14 21:18
unless you set it to home before u initiate mission. but in poi mode the sob will just keep circli ...

Sounds like you've uncovered a serious flaw, that should be corrected asap! We all thank you Ray!
2015-9-14
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rayrokni
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L8again Posted at 2015-9-15 08:38
Sounds like you've uncovered a serious flaw, that should be corrected asap! We all thank you Ray!
...

i am going to go and try it again tomorrow just in case, but i am ehhhh 100% sure of what i found out! lol
this time as requested, i will just let it keep circling in poi mode and see at what point it is going to make the right decision to abort or go home or land, and if land (which im 99.9999% sure is what it will do) at what battery level is it going to do that, at low? or at critical? because as i said if you are 400' up and i forgot what the maximum speed coming down is in IOC mode, maybe 5ms, that would take 1.5 mins roughly and if it  is a new battery and in good shape it may make it, if not well........
and after all it may land in ..... water or ...
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L8again
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Well good luck. Will be watching for the result, and  hoping for the best.
2015-9-14
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DJI-Tim
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It would better go home most of the times, except  POI behind the object with RC lost
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