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Cinematography vs Leisure
4805 25 2014-12-24
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smcbrearty
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Canada
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Cinematography vs leisure

I am looking at purchasing the Inspire 1 as a substitute fora S900.  Now before everyone startcrapping on me, please read the complete post. The ultimate setup for me would be the S900 with a GH4 strapped to the bottomwith 2 futaba radios.  This setup wouldbe in the $10,000 -$12,000 range and I would be able to go on to creating thebest aerial video footage ever seen (at least in my eyes, ha)!  The price of the unit along with theinsurance I would need to carry have kind of put a dampener on my hopes adreams until I can raise the cash.

The Inspire looks too be answer to my dreams.  4K non distorted video view with the abilityto control appiture settings while in flight, start and stop video recording andas well and take photos when ever needed. So many features packed into this well thought out package.  I want one just like the rest of you in thisform.

My question to the DJI tech’s and the lucky few that havebeen given a chance to use the Inspire is why does all the video taken look sojagged (the pan looks smooth but the video seems “jumpy”)?  I started looking through the interwebs hopingto find a direct comparison Inspire 1 vs S900 with GH4 and to my amazement thereis a company in the UK that has posted footage comparing the 2 two. the low light looks amazing but once again the 4K from the Inspire 1 looks “non fluid”.

Ok ready for all the criticism and bashing I am about toget, would love to know your thoughts. Remember that I am looking at the Inspire 1 as it is advertized “Everythingyou need for aerial filmmaking” this is not a leisure toy to me.
Thanks and Merry Christmas to everyone and all the best in the New Year!

2014-12-24
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pauldean85
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United Kingdom
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The GH4 will produce better image quality simply out of design; the GH4 has a huge sensor compared to the Inspire's camera. But the inspire camera is not bad in any way - I'd imagine a lot of the "non fluid" video you're seeing is where people are using auto-exposure on the inspire and letting the camera decide what shutter speed to use.

The reason that footage can appear to jump or lag when panning is because the shutter speed of the camera is too high for the frame rate of the video being captured. For example, if you capture at 30fps, you want a shutter speed as close to that frame rate as possible, whilst maintaining good exposure, for example 1/60th of a second, or 1/100th of a second.
This is more of a problem on slower frame rates, 30fps and under.

There's a great video here that explains the concept and how you can set your camera up to avoid stuttering whilst panning.


2014-12-24
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JerryMutter
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United States
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Hi it is my understanding that  aperture settings are fixed at f2.8 that said the production inspire 1s aren't out yet and it was stated the camera housing was to be redone from the prototypes. we just don't know yet what the changes will be but it should be everything you need but their will be higher end options. consider this  what if your unit is lost, crashed, stolen, will you want to replace it?
2014-12-24
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rbendjebar
First Officer
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One of the golden rules of videography, or filming in general, is that when panning, an object at one side of the frame should take at least 7 seconds to transition to the other side, or edge, of the frame. That means a fairly slow pan, even for a wide-angle lens like on the Inspire.
In addition, when posting on YT/Vimeo, the compression algorithms that allow for streaming video to users do not handle rapid movement well, as in rapid panning. This creates stuttering of the frames, which is also sometimes called judder, or juddering.
The third source of juddering is the video playing capability of the viewing equipment, as in the video card that is in your computer, which might not be able to handle the playback at normal speed.
As a rule, if planning on a pan, keep shutter speed at twice your frame rate (use ND filter to slow the shutter speed), use lowest frame rate possible (24/25 fps is better than 60 fps), and follow the rule of "7 seconds."
2014-12-24
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ultraturtle
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As rbendjebar pointed out, YouTube and Vimeo compression rules out any useful analysis.  Scroll to the bottom of this site, and download video files taken directly from the camera:

Mark & Romeo's Inspire 1 files
2014-12-24
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smcbrearty
lvl.4

Canada
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Wow, thanks for all the input.  I do realize that I should never gage final footage viewing from youtude and vimeo, the thing that I found interesting was that in the example I gave both the GH4 and Inspire were show in the same video, giving neither one an advantage or disadvantage.  

Even when shooting with my Gopro I will be at 60fps at 1080 and reduce the play back to 75%, this seems to help out with jitters and jerks.

Ultimately I will have to wait for the final specs and options for the Inspire Cam.  Wonder if DJi will make a Mini Ronin for the detachable cam for hand held uses (house walk through, filming sporting events from ground level, that kind of thing).

Thanks again everyone.
2014-12-24
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rbendjebar
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smcbrearty@roge Posted at 2014-12-25 01:28
Wow, thanks for all the input.  I do realize that I should never gage final footage viewing from you ...

Just use the Inspire and hold it so the camera is level. Not the most ergonomic look, but the camera will stay steady once the Inspire is powered up, right? I'd take off the props, though.
2014-12-24
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cmontisano
Second Officer

United States
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rbendjebar Posted at 2014-12-25 05:06
Just use the Inspire and hold it so the camera is level. Not the most ergonomic look, but the came ...

Now that's funny  
2014-12-24
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Wasabi
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Thailand
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pauldean85@goog Posted at 2014-12-24 23:03
The GH4 will produce better image quality simply out of design; the GH4 has a huge sensor compared t ...

Do you know if it is possible to take a picture while filming ? if possible  there will be less interest for us to  increase the shutter speed at least in sunny conditions.
2014-12-24
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cmontisano
Second Officer

United States
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Wasabi Posted at 2014-12-25 07:05
Do you know if it is possible to take a picture while filming ? if possible  there will be less in ...

Wasabi that's actually a good question, I will wait for Tahoe_ed to Q in this one I surely would like to know the answer as well
2014-12-24
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DJI-Autumn
First Officer

China
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Wasabi Posted at 2014-12-25 07:05
Do you know if it is possible to take a picture while filming ? if possible  there will be less in ...


I've tried before and the answer is no
I can not take a picture while filming.
Merry X'mas!
2014-12-25
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Wasabi
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Thailand
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DJI-Autumn Posted at 2014-12-25 16:04
I've tried before and the answer is no
I can not take a picture while filming.
Merry X'mas!

hum..
Luckily don't need to landing to change the shutter speed  ! and they could probably fix this in a futur update.
Merry Christmas all
2014-12-25
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cmontisano
Second Officer

United States
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DJI-Autumn Posted at 2014-12-25 16:04
I've tried before and the answer is no
I can not take a picture while filming.
Merry X'mas!

Thank you for the clarification Autumn.
Merry Christmas to you
2014-12-25
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smcbrearty
lvl.4

Canada
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From what i have read you can start and stop filming while in flight.  You can also take pictures when not filming.
2014-12-26
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Digital cinema
lvl.1

United Kingdom
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Here is a link to some footage taken at a shoot we did over the London Eye. We used an inspire and an S 900.

2014-12-29
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smcbrearty
lvl.4

Canada
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Digital Cinema, that is the link I used as an example.  The Inspire footage seemed a bit "choppy", I know that you can not really compare the inspire cam to the GH4.  Do you happen to have any other footage with the inspire i can take a peek at?

Thanks in advance
2014-12-29
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Digital cinema
lvl.1

United Kingdom
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Look on Vimeo, Digitalcinemafilm.

http://vimeo.com/111382521

http://vimeo.com/112699564
2014-12-30
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smcbrearty
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I wanted to say thank you again to Digital Cinema, I do really appreciate you taking the time to answer the questions I have asked.  I have one last one for you, with you guys working with the high end cameras and platforms for aerial video, do you feel that the inspire 1 is a good starting point into semi pro aerial work?  Or do I just rape pillage and steal what ever money I can get my hands on and save to afford a S900 with a GH4 and all the bells and whistles.  I have been in model flying for 15 years and have had my phantom 2 for just about a year now.

Thanks again, nice to talk to someone in the industry at your level.
2014-12-30
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Digital cinema
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United Kingdom
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smcbrearty@roge Posted at 2014-12-30 22:55
I wanted to say thank you again to Digital Cinema, I do really appreciate you taking the time to ans ...

I had a look at your web site. If your market is (for now) as it appears on your site then have a good look at an Inspire. If your plans at some stage include print or broadcast images or video then look at a bigger rig.
Even the preproduction unit we have with a beta version of the iOS app is a handy platform for some jobs. We're using it commercially.
Hope it helps.
2014-12-30
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Daninho
Second Officer

Germany
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rbendjebar Posted at 2014-12-25 00:52
One of the golden rules of videography, or filming in general, is that when panning, an object at on ...

are you sure that 24p is better then 60frames? It will be not fluid, like a cinema movie. 60frames is really smooth like water and youtube can play 60frames now as far as i know.
2014-12-30
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2001guns
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United States
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rbendjebar Posted at 2014-12-25 00:52
One of the golden rules of videography, or filming in general, is that when panning, an object at on ...

My Vision 2 plus:
When panning across a surface with a regular pattern such as a corrugated metal roof, my videos display a flicker or strobing appearance in those frames. Is that juddering? What can I try to avoid this? I'm running a 32 Gig micro SD card with "up to" 80 MB/s write speed.
2014-12-30
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joeztan
lvl.3
Flight distance : 2271188 ft
Australia
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2001guns Posted at 2014-12-31 10:17
My Vision 2 plus:
When panning across a surface with a regular pattern such as a corrugated metal  ...

Hi 2001guns,

The 'pattern' you're seeing is a known as a Moiré pattern in photography terms. It's due to how the camera sensor processed light in the Bayer filter. Some cameras are more prone to it than others, I guess the design of the Vision+'s FC200 camera makes it prone.

Some people have suggested turning the Sharpening option to the minimum as this will lessen the effect.

Some more information if you're inclined:
https://photographylife.com/what-is-moire
2014-12-30
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Playful Monster
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United States
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bump to get real chat back in the chat forum
2014-12-31
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2001guns
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United States
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joeztan Posted at 2014-12-31 12:15
Hi 2001guns,

The 'pattern' you're seeing is a known as a Moiré pattern in photography terms. It' ...

Will the Inspire have a similar problem?
2015-1-2
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joeztan
lvl.3
Flight distance : 2271188 ft
Australia
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2001guns Posted at 2015-1-3 10:43
Will the Inspire have a similar problem?

I don't have an Inspire so I don't know. I'm sure once the production Inspires are in hand there will be lots of reviews by very knowledgable people.

My guess is that the performance will be similar to the GoPro 4 Black since that and the Inspire 1 use the same Sony sensor (along with the same Bayer filter).
2015-1-3
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freddiebd
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Switzerland
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If they use the same sensor why can the Inspire only do 24/25 FPS in 4K and GoPro can do 30 FPV in 4K?
2015-1-3
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