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Increased bitrates in new firmware, WTH?!
1552 16 2015-12-8
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SimonMW
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United Kingdom
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I was really happy to read that the latest firmware for the Inspire 1 has drastically increased bitrates in 1080p modes. But, what on earth are DJI thinking?! In the UK and other 50hz countries, we have been left with the same old low bitrates in these modes.

I have just tested the new firmware, and at 30p and 60p (in NTSC mode in the Inspire's menu) the files are reporting back as 40Mbps and 60Mbps respectively. In 30p that is an increase of 15Mbps over the last firmware. It isn't a night and day difference, but it helps.

However, put the aircraft into PAL mode and record at 25p and 50p, and what do I see? The same old crappy low bitrates, with 25Mbps HDV style rate for 25p.

DJI, not everyone lives in 60hz countries! What possible reason can you have for increasing the bitrates for only one country of operation?
2015-12-8
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simonm
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Take your point but I'm not sure we need to get hung up on using PAL in the UK.

Don't take this as gospel but from what I've read modern flat screen monitors run at 60Hz anyway, so unless you're filming something for TV broadcast then NTSC settings would be better. I've also seen it said that TVs these days will automatically adjust anyway. I've shot the same sequence in both and replayed to see the difference but to be honest they look the same to me. Perhaps I should put both through the TV and see if there's any difference there.

Maybe somebody out there can give us a definitive answer as to whether we in the UK (and half of the world) actually need to shoot in PAL settings.
2015-12-8
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simonm
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Take your point but I'm not sure we need to get hung up on using PAL in the UK.

Don't take this as gospel but from what I've read modern flat screen monitors run at 60Hz anyway, so unless you're filming something for TV broadcast then NTSC settings would be better. I've also seen it said that TVs these days will automatically adjust anyway. I've shot the same sequence in both and replayed to see the difference but to be honest they look the same to me. Perhaps I should put both through the TV and see if there's any difference there.

Maybe somebody out there can give us a definitive answer as to whether we in the UK (and half of the world) actually need to shoot in PAL settings.
2015-12-8
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simonm
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Flight distance : 406886 ft
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Take your point but I'm not sure we need to get hung up on using PAL in the UK.

Don't take this as gospel but from what I've read modern flat screen monitors run at 60Hz anyway, so unless you're filming something for TV broadcast then NTSC settings would be better. I've also seen it said that TVs these days will automatically adjust anyway. I've shot the same sequence in both and replayed to see the difference but to be honest they look the same to me. Perhaps I should put both through the TV and see if there's any difference there.

Maybe somebody out there can give us a definitive answer as to whether we in the UK (and half of the world) actually need to shoot in PAL settings.
2015-12-8
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SimonMW
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Yes, for web video it isn't generally an issue, and yes, 30p does better match most peoples monitor refresh rates. But, I produce videos for a living, with a mix of footage. The stuff with the Inspire has to mix with ground based footage, and some of that may have been filmed with lighting of various sorts, which to avoid flickering issues is most effectively dealt with by shooting in 50z modes (i.e. 25p).

But this isn't just restricted to those modes. It seems that 24p might not have the boosted bitrate either. It just seems odd to only boost the bitrate for two frame rates.
2015-12-8
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Mad_Angler1
Captain
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Pal and NTSC are mostly legacy standard relating to the old TVs and transmission systems, in todays computer driven world its not necessary to use Pal, almost everything would support NTSC now.

if its for computer playback or YT then its makes no difference.
2015-12-8
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Rob W
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As SimonMW said, there really are need to shoot in PAL quite often. Electrical light, mix aerial footage with other video shot in PAL framerate etc.

@DJI: Please come out with a new firmware that also updates the bitrate for PAL!
2015-12-8
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DJI-Tim
DJI team

Hong Kong
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Mad_Angler1 Posted at 2015-12-9 08:35
Pal and NTSC are mostly legacy standard relating to the old TVs and transmission systems, in todays  ...

I agree with your statement! As far as your video will be watched on a computer NTSC is good. Also if you are not able to switch your video to the NTSC mode, change your mobile device language to English USA and it will allow you to switch.
2015-12-8
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Rob W
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2015-12-9 08:55
I agree with your statement! As far as your video will be watched on a computer NTSC is good. Also ...

You seem to forget that half at least an equal amount, if not more, users are PAL users instead of NTSC users around the world.

Yes, NTSC is fine if you only want to publish online. But as Simon wrote above, there are certain aspects to think of.

1. Filming computer screens, electric light - using NTSC gives artifacts.
2. Conforming to other filmed material - I want to mix my aerials with for instance ground made footage made by another filmer that shoots 25p/50p. Mixing that with NTSC 30p/60p is difficult.

So, I beg you to see that there really is a need for not ignoring PAL users! By the way, how hard could it be to fix the firmware issue to make PAL frame rates use the higher bitrate as it is already implemented for NTSC? Why dissing PAL?
A good reply from DJI should have been: We will fix this immediately in a firmware update. Sorry we missed PAL in the firmware update.




2015-12-9
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DJI-Tim
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Rob W Posted at 2015-12-9 16:23
You seem to forget that half at least an equal amount, if not more, users are PAL users instead of  ...

Yes, i'll report about your suggestion about PAL to our R&D and ask them to make an improvements.
2015-12-9
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Rob W
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2015-12-9 09:41
Yes, i'll report about your suggestion about PAL to our R&D and ask them to make an improvements.

Thank's Tim. I have filed a ticket to support through the support page also. It is really important with a consistency all through your product line. I'm using the Inspire 1 with X5, an Osmo, a Phantom 3 Pro, and a DJI S900 with BMPCC for filming. Depending on the need, I have to use on or more of your products for making the film, and me as well as other users probably have the need to mix our own footage with material filmed by others.
2015-12-9
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DroneAlps
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2015-12-9 09:41
Yes, i'll report about your suggestion about PAL to our R&D and ask them to make an improvements.

Great. This is important.
2015-12-9
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dopeytree
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2015-12-9 08:41
Yes, i'll report about your suggestion about PAL to our R&D and ask them to make an improvements.

Thanks hope to see it in the next firmware
2015-12-9
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coyut.riot
Second Officer
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Would be great to see it sooner than later ;)
There are a lot of people shooting in the PAL regions. An we need at least PAL 25 or 50p. Otherwise TV stations will turn down the footage.
So even if we shoot stock we shoot in PAL to be able to sell it later on.

For TV stuff interlaced would be even better. Yes we can convert 50p to 25i but then its also "only" 1080p.
On the conversion flickering can occur.
So another real big improvement would be 4k, UHD, 2.7k, 2k and 1080p in 25i and 50i
2015-12-9
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teamnest1
Second Officer
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Technology, just like time, doesn't wait. Either get with it, or get left behind.
2015-12-10
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SimonMW
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United Kingdom
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Technology, just like time, doesn't wait. Either get with it, or get left behind.


I'm not sure what you are trying to say? 25p is just as valid a format as any other. It isn't obsolete and is used for HD broadcast across the world, along with forthcoming UHD streaming broadcasts too. In fact there are a higher number of countries using 50hz frequencies than 60hz, so it would make more sense to offer the higher bitrates to the 25p and 50p modes seeing as a higher percentage of the world use them!

The Inspire is often used for television broadcast. To ignore such a large segment of the market seems to me to be madness.
2015-12-14
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JerryLaurence
Second Officer
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United Kingdom
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In the meantime... Has anyone found a noticeable improvement with the quality of 1080p in NTSC?
2015-12-14
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