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Fiction vs. Reality. What the new FAA rule means.
1344 17 2015-12-15
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koine777
lvl.2

United States
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I'm not a lawyer or an expert regarding the ins and outs of what this new registration idea means. However, we can have reasonable, intelligent discussion, without meaningless rants, or so I hope.

First of all, there are people who truly are acting irresponsibly with their flying cameras and it makes things seemingly inevitably harder for anyone who isn't behaving in this manner. So, to this end, I easily agree with the need for some kind of regulation.

Second, the registration idea in place is easily defeated by stealing someone else's registration number or by not registering and/or abandoning a UAV (that crashes or is somehow otherwise discovered) used in a socially unacceptable or illegal manner (such as trespassing, viewing neighbors back yards, hospitals, stadiums, national parks, whatever) since the registration number belongs to a user instead of the UAV itself.

It seems to me that even if a credit card is used to identify a purchaser, this is merely circumstantial evidence, because many flying cameras will be purchased by one person and gifted to another. In some cases, if a spouse were to gift to a spouse, wouldn't the spouse be able to choose not to testify against the other?

So, let's have some real discussion here. I really don't think the FAA is attempting to exercise some kind of Big Brother authority. In fact, I think they're kind of taking on a near impossible task. Who would/could possibly enforce this new regulation, apart from a serious offense? Is there anyone on this forum who thinks that a UAV flown into a passenger plane shouldn't be discovered and prosecuted?

In my humble opinion, I think this new regulation is rather innocuous. If the government (federal or state) attempt to license the use of UAV's, that is when responsible users should stand up in protest because licensure is the opposite of freedom. Licenses can be revoked. Sometimes responsible people make mistakes. This doesn't mean they should lose the use of a flying camera anymore than a person taking a picture from outside the fence of the White House.

Please don't get bogged down by my examples. I am one person attempting to exchange ideas with (hopefully) equally responsible and like minded individuals. I accept criticisms and compliments.

2015-12-15
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itsaz
lvl.3
Flight distance : 144052 ft
United States
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I concur.  It's the individual that is being registered, not the UAV.  Kinda like a national firearms registry.  Next comes the question of what happens if I sell my drone to an unregistered individual and he DOESN'T bother to register his name in the data base?  Much like selling my gun at a gunshow without a background check, wouldn't you say?  We'll hear from Barack Obama & Nancy Pelosi before all this is over.
2015-12-15
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Westside Osprey
lvl.4
Flight distance : 95915 ft
United States
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I think the biggest reason for this new registration is to get everyone to read and agree to a set of rules.

Just like you do when you agree to install SW, or when you get your drivers license, hunting license etc.. This means you can't claim you did not know it was illegal too fly over the football game etc..

I personally think this is a good thing.

It is just like the AMA does. In order to fly at our clubs you have to abide by the rules. So many new drone users never saw the set of rules that apply to model aircraft in our national airspace system. Now they will and they have to sign (digitally) that they have read them and will follow them.

It is mostly about education, Like DriverEd really.

2015-12-15
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pi-inthesky
First Officer
Flight distance : 13058 ft
United Kingdom
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Westside Osprey Posted at 2015-12-15 13:24
I think the biggest reason for this new registration is to get everyone to read and agree to a set o ...

Westside Osprey makes a good point.Model aircraft flyers have been around for decades without attracting any of this bad publicity surrounding UAVs.WHY and please dont come up with the old chestnut that its got a camera attachment,NO its because they carry out their pursuits responsibly NOT flying around like headless chickens as a minority do with no infrastructure to rein them in.Licencing is not an infringment of ones freedom as many argue.Example remove all restrictions for piloting  aircraft MAYHEM.I have never been involved in model aircraft but think we all could learn a lot from their example its never to late.
2015-12-15
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aburkefl
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United States
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pi-inthesky@hot Posted at 2015-12-15 09:22
Westside Osprey makes a good point.Model aircraft flyers have been around for decades without attr ...

Agree. Also, many thanks to the inventors of the following:

LiPo battery
Electronic Speed Control (ESC)
Brushless electric motor

The invention of these three devices enabled powerful electrically-powered remote control airplanes and now quad-copters. As obnoxious as many people seem to think we drone flyers are, can you imagine if all these things were powered just like the "old" days, with small gasoline-powered engines?

Also forgot to include the creators of spread-spectrum technology. Although Hedy Lamar is one of several credited with the original patent (her design/idea was never actually used - it *was* terrific theory). That's the technology that lets dozens of remote control enthusiasts to all be flying at the same time.

DJI recommends flying only a few Phantoms in the same area at the same time. My suspicion is that this is more because of the 5.8GHz video as opposed to the actual control signal. Not being privy to the actual schematics used to build the Phantom, this is just a guess on my part.

Art - N4PJ
Leesburg, FL
2015-12-15
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clifwlkr
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United States
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If they actually required you to pass a simple online quiz, I might see some value in this.  Also, if they did not require a credit card, I could also more buy into this.  Simply go online, take the test, and get your number and id card saying you passed the test.  I could build this site to do that for them for a few thousand dollars, not millions.  It really is that easy when you remove the financial processing from it.

Instead, we are going to spend millions of tax payer dollars to create this bloated system that will have zero effect.  It really does remind me of the FCC and CB licensing.  No one bothered, and how many cops arrested people for CB violations?  I see this being used very selectively against people that law enforcement does not like for whatever reason, or by a few officers who have a chip on their shoulder about drones.

The reality is the model aircraft hobby used to be expensive, with crashes very likely making it more expensive.  Technology has now made it easy to fly, and the barrier to entry is low.  So we have more people doing it.  If you notice, you can still actually build your own ultralight airplane and fly it with zero registration and training.  I know, I have done it.  I can still fly my craft full of 5 gallons of gas up into the airspace without so much as any piece of paperwork.  Again, the cost of entry is high so they don't care.

I see this first effort being a bomb, and sucking down more of my tax dollars.  I am sure there will be follow on steps as they try in vain to reign this in.  Meanwhile, the 'big danger' we are trying to prevent is a tiny drone falling onto the white house lawn (recall that someone actually landed a full size ultralight there not that long ago), or claims of 'near misses'.  The media just loves banging on drones because it feeds the paranoia that people seem to crave.  No one is spying on you with a drone, as you look like an ant unless the thing is up in your face.  

All of this 'bad drone operator' hype is just that, hype.  Far more people are in danger from cars driving down the street, or a baseball hitting them during that game, than from a drone falling out of the sky.

I really just can't see how any of the proposed rules actually accomplishes anything, is my main problem.  I would be the first to sign up (I do for ham radio) if I saw something it would accomplish.
2015-12-15
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jtingley77
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United States
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My quick uneducated opinion: just the federal governments way of telling the public that quad copters arent toys and should be gifted responsibility during this holiday season.
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jtingley77
lvl.1

United States
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The long term goals of this act are ridicules
2015-12-15
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ronnydsosa
Second Officer
Flight distance : 21624 ft
United States
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Once you get registered as an individual and lets say you have a P3 and then later on you want to gift that P3. You will be able to login to the FAA registration/Account page and remove that set aircraft from your Certificate/Number... Come on people, its not rocket science we dealing with here... Btw if your spouse go to best buy and buy a P3 for christmas, she doesn't have to register it with the FAA as she is not the one who will be flying it..  That would be you.... The FAA will only go after the person who's registered/would be pilot in this case... And yes I'm sure there are going o be a lot of people who won't bother registering, but thats how things works... There are still thousands of drivers out there, driving around with no Insurance/no license and so on.....
2015-12-15
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labroides
Captain
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Australia
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itsaz Posted at 2015-12-16 00:22
I concur.  It's the individual that is being registered, not the UAV.  Kinda like a national firearm ...

"what happens if I sell my drone to an unregistered individual and he DOESN'T bother to register his name in the data base? "

What happens is that you remove the sticker with your number on it - and that's it.
The number is tied to you - not  the  drone.
2015-12-15
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Geebax
Captain
Australia
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My guess is that aviation control authorities in all countries are watching the FAA closely in this, and there will be variations on these registration rules enacted in most countries soon.

The Phantom 3 type of UAV is unlike any RC model aircraft that went before it, it is not something you fly in a club atmosphere, you can easily fly it way beyond line of sight due to the camera view, it can be flown out of any small space, and it requires no skill whatsoever to fly it. The only 'talent' required is to be able to stump up the cost of purchase.

To any agency worried about safety in the sky, it is a frightening concept.
2015-12-15
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koine777
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United States
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So far, it seems like the most legitimate concern is that this is a precursor to licensure, which, unlike what has been said earlier, IS the opposite of freedom since a license can be revoked, just like a driver's or pilot's license. So, maybe what we're hitting around is the bullseye of our freedom to operate RC UAV's with the same lack of regulations that previous gas powered or now electric motor operators have previously enjoyed. What changed? It's pretty clear that availability, or volume, of users is the impetus and the volume is exceeding the capacity of local clubs or communities to regulate, in part, because DJI and others have created affordable products which are super easy to fly. People don't necessarily have to consult with others before trying it out to discover it really does fly "out of the box". Congratulations to DJI and others who have successfully created these products and put it in our hands.

With increased knowledge and ability comes increased responsibility.
2015-12-15
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elbee
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Flight distance : 79101 ft
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Geebax Posted at 2015-12-16 11:25
My guess is that aviation control authorities in all countries are watching the FAA closely in this, ...

Some countries are already well beyond anything the U.S. Is doing. In another thread here I inquired if anyone knew what the rules were if I wanted to take a phantom 3 with me on vacation in chile (Patagonia and atacama desert -  not downtown Santiago).  My travel agent (living in chile) suggested I contact the Chilean consulate. After 3 emails passed along to the government authority on the matter, it looks like I would have to register the drone (have it approved for use in country) AND file a flight plan providing google maps coordinates of where I intend to fly, also requiring approval.  This is for hobby/recreational flight away from populated areas.  Professional use requirements are much higher.

If the perceived threat from careless hobby drone flyers continues in the U.S.,what's next here -- filing flight plans, pilot licenses,  and mandatory insurance??  Safe flight education should be a goal of every one of us.  You can disagree if the FAA plan is helpful in this regard, but regulations could be much worse than registering.
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Zelo32
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United States
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dude http://venturebeat.com/2015/11/2 ... ones-be-registered/  it says it here in plain English "FAA task force recommends pilots of drones be registered"  which means you don't have to.  stop listening to these faa supports.  you don't have to register squat.
2015-12-15
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elbee
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Zelo32 Posted at 2015-12-16 12:07
dude http://venturebeat.com/2015/11/2 ... ones-be-registered/  it says it here in plain English "FAA ...

That's "old news". The current news is federal law requires it. I suggest you read the FAA website FAQ

https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
2015-12-15
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elbee
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Zelo32 Posted at 2015-12-16 12:07
dude http://venturebeat.com/2015/11/2 ... ones-be-registered/  it says it here in plain English "FAA ...

That's "old news". I suggest you read the FAA registration FAQ

https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/

Federal law now requires it.  Everyone has free will to make choices for their own actions
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cacollins0220
lvl.3
Flight distance : 294016 ft
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Guys I would like to bring up another good point on this one as well.

the other day, I was watching a YouTube video of an unfortunate member of our community that had the Police decide that they wanted to remove his DJI P3P from the air. to do this, they had the police helicopter come into the airspace that he was in and use the bigger aircrafts downdraft to try to push the Phantom into the water. when the drone operator moved his aircraft out of the way, the police helicopter followed it and repeated the process. eventually the drone was destroyed by the police's reckless action.

So NOW THE FUN PAER......

the FAA has ruled that these drones are in fact Aircraft.... OK so what does that mean.....

well here it is, the operator of the police helicopter as well as the agency involved, Immediately loses his flight licenses, as it is Illegal for an operator of an aircraft to intentionally cause by his action or inaction the downing of another aircraft. this is a felony under US code, and is punishable by 10 Years in prison and a 1 Million dollar fine. On top of that, there is the civil penalties, as well as the liability. the owner of the p3p would never have to work another day in their lives.

as I do work in the legal profession I cant wait for that to happen.

what I will tell you is to fly responsibly, but if the cops do stupid things, get the tail number and call the very same police department and report a crime. 911 works in the US. You have to get the 911 call on tape with the dispatcher for this to work. then when they try to bully you, PUSH BACK. Make the DA press charges by going to the media, and embarrass them to take them to court. File suit in court, and if the DA wont press charges bring that to court against the DA. Most people don't realize you can actually do that in the US.

thank you FAA for giving us the tools to fight back. Cant wait until they figure that one out. there are going to be a lot of people in Washington going OOPS, what did we just do....

happy flying
2015-12-15
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Geebax
Captain
Australia
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cacollins0220 Posted at 2015-12-16 16:21
Guys I would like to bring up another good point on this one as well.

the other day, I was watching ...

Do you have a link to that YouTube clip?
2015-12-15
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