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What happened with 20 ciclyes deep discharge information?
1709 32 2015-12-17
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cegio
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Hi everyone, today I´ve downloaded "Phantom 3 Intelligent Flight Battery Safety "  from dji web, and I don´t see the recomendation to do a deep discharge in our batteries each 20 cycles. is no necessary now?
Also I´ve downloaded "Phantom 3 Advanced User Manual (EN) v1.6"  and I don´t see anything about it.
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2015-12-17
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DJI-Ken
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Hello Cegio,
Yes, every 20 charges you should do a full discharge. here's the info about it. Last page under the NOTICE. it is also in the app along with a bunch of other tutorials.
http://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/p ... y_Guidelines_en.pdf
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cegio
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2015-12-17 22:48
Hello Cegio,
Yes, every 20 charges you should do a full discharge. here's the info about it. Last pa ...

Hi ken, this must be the old document, check the new one (2015-12-01)
http://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/p ... _Guidelines__en.pdf
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DJI-Ken
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I see what you're saying now. I'm looking into it. may be a typo.
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rodger
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It is wise to do the deep discharge.I bring mine down to around 10%. Let the battery cool to room temp and then do your regular charge.
2015-12-17
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cegio
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2015-12-17 23:51
I see what you're saying now. I'm looking into it. may be a typo.

A typo? lack a whole paragraph ... Ok ,could you tell us something when you know it please?.
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cegio
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rodger Posted at 2015-12-17 23:54
It is wise to do the deep discharge.I bring mine down to around 10%. Let the battery cool to room te ...

Only 10%?, I have read many people in this forum that fly theirs aircrafts till 15 or 20 % and later on their homes,they turn on  phantom (no motors) and after 30 or 45 minutes, when the voltage fall under  3v , the battery shut off automaticly.

By the way sorry for my english
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DJI-Ken
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The Phantom 3 batteries are the same and should be fully discharged every 20 times.
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cegio
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2015-12-18 00:28
The Phantom 3 batteries are the same and should be fully discharged every 20 times.

till the battery turns off by itself?
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cegio Posted at 2015-12-18 00:48
till the battery turns off by itself?

Yes, until the battery turns off.
2015-12-17
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cegio
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2015-12-18 00:59
Yes, until the battery turns off.

Ok, thanks ken, I will continue watching the downloads section to see if someone correct the "typo" ;)
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cegio Posted at 2015-12-17 11:02
Ok, thanks ken, I will continue watching the downloads section to see if someone correct the "typo" ...

I followed the discharge procedures very carefully for my P2 batteries, and they were never as good as before I did the 'maintenance' procedure.  Couldn't hold much of a charge at all.  
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rhayhurst@mac.c Posted at 2015-12-18 05:04
I followed the discharge procedures very carefully for my P2 batteries, and they were never as goo ...

I think its safe to say that you can discharge the P3 batteries at every 20 cycles to recalibrate the battery.

I don't know much about batteries but this is what I think...

The reason that the P2 batteries fail is that there is 6 batteries in the P2 Batteries. This means 1 pair hooked in parallel x 3 in series to make the 3S cell battery. The 2x3 config makes balancing trickier and hence the large variation in voltage when under load and this results into the early landing. In the 2x3 config, 1 battery in the pair can sag but because its hooked in parallel, the working battery can 'mask' the failing battery. On the ground, it will show fine, but underload (when you ascend) it will manifest.

The P3 batteries on the other hand are TRUE 4S cell batteries hooked in series. This means battery balancing is easier. When balancing is easier, there is less failures and sagging. This also means that each cell is monitored and transparent to user and the error can be detected before take off.

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cegio
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2015-12-17 08:28
The Phantom 3 batteries are the same and should be fully discharged every 20 times.

Hi Ken, could you tell me if this process is necessary also in the mavic?
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Mark The Droner
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Be advised, this thread is from 2015, excluding the above post.  

My understanding is that the 20 cycle discharge maintenance strategy had been quietly abandoned by DJI at some point during the 2016 calendar year.  
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cegio
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-3-8 04:08
Be advised, this thread is from 2015, excluding the above post.  

My understanding is that the 20 cycle discharge maintenance strategy had been quietly abandoned by DJI at some point during the 2016 calendar year.

I know ,I did the post, according to ken the discharge process is still necessary even if it does not say it in the battery safety guide, but I would like to know the opinion of dji and I wuold like to know if it is necessary also in the mavic
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Mark The Droner
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Okay.

I do remember in 2015, people were saying DJI was wrong about the discharge thing.  They were calling themselves experienced LiPo users and battery experts and so on. and they were making loud and passionate arguments that you can easily irreparably damage your battery doing a deep discharge.  I personally thought DJI was correct.  After all, what do a bunch of dumb forum posters know compared to the engineers at DJI?  

But then the discharge advice began quietly disappearing from the DJI battery manuals.  No reason was ever given.  So what do we conclude?  

It seems to me the dumb forum posters were right all along, and the rest of us were wrong.  Yes, a deep discharge can help if you have cells out of balance, but otherwise, it appears that doing deep discharges as part of a maintenance plan is not advised.  

Is there currently any DJI documentation that advises the 20 cycle deep discharge?  

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cegio
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-3-8 05:09
Okay.

I do remember in 2015, people were saying DJI was wrong about the discharge thing.  They were calling themselves experienced LiPo users and battery experts and so on. and they were making loud and passionate arguments that you can easily irreparably damage your battery doing a deep discharge.  I personally thought DJI was correct.  After all, what do a bunch of dumb forum posters know compared to the engineers at DJI?  


yes it´s all very strange, but the main function of the deep discharge is not only to balance the cells, with each load we make, the batteries lose a little of their capacity, and the only way to recover almost completely is to do the deep Discharge
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DJI-Ken
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cegio Posted at 2017-3-8 03:56
Hi Ken, could you tell me if this process is necessary also in the mavic?

No it is not necessary. I'm thinking because of new battery technology you do not have to be as strict on the battery. Now it says to maintain good health to fully charge and discharge the battery every 3 months.
But I still only fly to 50% for the first ten flights with a brand new battery just because I've been doing that forever.
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cegio
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-3-8 08:27
No it is not necessary. I'm thinking because of new battery technology you do not have to be as strict on the battery. Now it says to maintain good health to fully charge and discharge the battery every 3 months.
But I still only fly to 50% for the first ten flights with a brand new battery just because I've been doing that forever.

3 months? but depends of the person , in 3 months we can make 10 or 100 charging cyles, that is not nothing concrete,
I have been seeing the safety guide for phantom 4 batteries and before I did not say anything of the 3 months and now yes, the technology is the same now as before. There is a lot of confusion about it and I think dji should clear it up at once.

Anyway, the deep discharge process is still done in the same way? Fly up to 15% and then on ground let the battery discharge until the battery is turned off, is it?

Let's make a summary
Old Battery_Safety_Guidelines
1.phantom 3 full discharge every 20 cycles
2.phantom 4 full discharge NO INFO
3,inspire 1 full discharge every 10 cycles

New Battery_Safety_Guidelines
1.phantom 3 full discharge NO INFO
2.phantom 4 full discharge every 3 months
3.inspire 1 full discharge every 3 months
phantom 4 pro  full discharge every 3 months
inspire 2 full discharge every 3 months
mavic pro full discharge every 3 months
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RedHotPoker
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Seems like the deep cycle info has been dropped from the online tutorials and written pamphlets.
Leaving many to wonder if that procedure is necessary or not.


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cegio
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-3-8 17:39
Seems like the deep cycle info has been dropped from the online tutorials and written pamphlets.
Leaving many to wonder if that procedure is necessary or not.


Yes but only in the phantom 3 battery safety guide, in the cases of inspire 1, inspire 2, phantom 4, phantom 4 pro and mavic, the complete discharge cycle information appears every 3 months, but  how many charge cycles ? how do we do the full discharge process of the battery?
2017-3-9
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cegio Posted at 2017-3-9 01:39
Yes but only in the phantom 3 battery safety guide, in the cases of inspire 1, inspire 2, phantom 4, phantom 4 pro and mavic, the complete discharge cycle information appears every 3 months, but  how many charge cycles ? how do we do the full discharge process of the battery?

You can fly each pack down, 10-20% then just leave the drone sitting, while turned on.

Or what I do is use the flight SIM to drain them completely.

What does that 3 months period stand for?  Flying daily, once a week, or what?
Pretty open ended. . .


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RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-3-9 02:23
You can fly each pack down, 10-20% then just leave the drone sitting, while turned on.

Or what I do is use the flight SIM to drain them completely.

I am thinking the idea of a full cycle every three months is actually for battery's in storage / not being used and not for battery's seeing regular flying.
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-3-9 02:23
You can fly each pack down, 10-20% then just leave the drone sitting, while turned on.

Or what I do is use the flight SIM to drain them completely.

If using the SIM (or just turned on) to discharge  your battery shouldn't you have a fan directed at the A/C and gimbal to prevent over heating?
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DJI-Ken
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T3rdEye Posted at 2017-3-9 07:44
If using the SIM (or just turned on) to discharge  your battery shouldn't you have a fan directed at the A/C and gimbal to prevent over heating?

The internal fan will keep the battery from overheating.
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-3-9 07:52
The internal fan will keep the battery from overheating.

Ken, Even with the internal fan it can get pretty warm. I always run mine, atop a double fan, that is turned upwards, towards the ceiling.


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T3rdEye Posted at 2017-3-9 07:44
If using the SIM (or just turned on) to discharge  your battery shouldn't you have a fan directed at the A/C and gimbal to prevent over heating?

Yes, as you stated, using a external fan to help keep the drone cooler, as in flight, is a good idea.

Certainly can't hurt...


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cegio
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-3-9 02:23
You can fly each pack down, 10-20% then just leave the drone sitting, while turned on.

Or what I do is use the flight SIM to drain them completely.


That's right, it's just like I do, but I put it in the window when I do the full discharge and the temperature does not exceed 40º. Even so, ken, would be good if you could tell us the cycles needed to do the full discharge cycle..
2017-3-11
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RedHotPoker
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cegio Posted at 2017-3-11 15:14
That's right, it's just like I do, but I put it in the window when I do the full discharge and the temperature does not exceed 40º. Even so, ken, would be good if you could tell us the cycles needed to do the full discharge cycle..

It's wise to place it in a conveniant place where it can remain slightly cooler.
Just be aware some unscrupulous person, may walk past and grad the drone, for their own. ;-)

I prefer to use an upturned fan, for my cooling efforts. Avoiding any unnecessary losses.


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cegio
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-3-11 16:22
It's wise to place it in a conveniant place where it can remain slightly cooler.
Just be aware some unscrupulous person, may walk past and grad the drone, for their own. ;-)

I live in a second floor  
2017-3-14
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RedHotPoker
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cegio Posted at 2017-3-14 02:26
I live in a second floor

I have a tall ladder? haha

Yes, then you are good to go. Actually an air conditioner or a good fan work well too.

But what ever works for you, is great.
Fourth floor here, but with an elavator. ;-)


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T3rdEye
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I find when using an electrical fan too close to my bird it makes the compass go crazy.  Not that the compass is needed at this point but will it damage it in the long run?
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