DJI,

I figured I would post here as all of my emails to your sales email account have gone un answered.

How is the new geo fencing locks going to work for public safety agencies? We have recently had some experience and were able to borrow a drone and operator from another agency for some aerial footage that we needed urgently, and we feel that having our own could potentially be a huge asset.

My question relates to times of natural disaster or when the general public may be grounded due to a temporary FAA TFR. How would we go about unlocking our own drone to use in SAR Opperations, or immediately following a disaster with no internet available for unlocking? We understand the process and have the credentials to get FAA waivers as required for aerial ops but how would that translate down to our user account when the only thing in the air might be restricted to public safety?

I could see the most reasonable way would be to permanently unlock within a XX mile radius of our area of responsibility. Or have the option of unlocking at least 60 days at a time. We would then renew every 30  so we always should have at least 30 days of use in the event of a communications failure. We are a local agency so we do not require nor reasonably argue for "just unlock all of it" mentality.

I am sure others will chime in on the topic. We are considering getting started with a Phantom 3 Pro, or an Inspire 2.0.

DJI if you do not want to comment publicly email or PM me with contact information and we will get in contact with you.

DJI sales and the forum aren't where you are going to get answers to those questions.
You'd be better off talking direct to Brendan Schulman who is in charge of the new GEO implementation.
His email is:  Brendan.Schulman@dji.com

I think the simple answer to this is, don't use the DJI products. If you are working for some 'agency', then purchase an industrial quality drone that does not have GeoFencing capability. This safety feature is built into DJI drones because they are consumer products.

Thank you for the good suggestion! I'll should pass it for future considiration

Geebax Posted at 2016-2-3 00:09
I think the simple answer to this is, don't use the DJI products. If you are working for some 'agenc ...

Geebax, we would love to have an industrial drone, but our budget will not support it nor would we be able to get even remotely close justifying the cost to the 'bean counters'. We are looking at DJI due to the eases of use, entry cost, and market share. In an ideal world we would love to just have a helicopter and pilot on duty 24/7/365 but it cannot be justified just like an industrial quality drone.

INFF Posted at 2016-2-3 19:37
Geebax, we would love to have an industrial drone, but our budget will not support it nor would we ...

Sadly you are in the same boat as many others here...
. In you're situation DJI claims you can unlock a zone via a credit card or cell phone. (YOU HAVE TO HAVE CELL SERVICE OR INTERNET) to unlock. DJI employees, will tell you it is automatic and can be done in advance.. They repeat it over and over and over... FACT IS you have to have access to cell service or Internet... Else you're bird is bricked,,, case closed.

A yellow zone can be unlocked for 3 days and you have to do this in advance to flight..... Red zones can never be unlocked.
If DJI Deems  a area a NFZ... You're bird is bricked. If the servers have issues you're bird is bricked... If DJI goes bankrupt your bird is bricked

Things are subject to change , however  as of now...  That's how it is.   Only you can decide if that will meet your needs







This last 3 days .... I have heard this is specifically so folks like you can unlock a certain zone in event of emergency.
YOU CAN NOT unlock a red zone period. And in

AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-2-3 20:53
Sadly you are in the same boat as many others here...
. In you're situation DJI claims you can unlo ...

Do you realize that you need a special exemption from the FAA if you are a public safety organization and want to use a UAV?  And that you need a pilot to operate the craft?

Hopefully the FAA will lighten up on these restrictions but they are in effect at the moment.  The vast majority of SAR / EMS / Fire Departments are  holding off until things are cleared up.  The last thing we want is another Federal agency on our ass.

WetDog Posted at 2016-2-3 20:59
Do you realize that you need a special exemption from the FAA if you are a public safety organizat ...

Yeah.... I realize that. I Know all about Sect 333's and NOTAM and COAS.....How did you gather I did not get that?

Even if you require somthing beyond those things how does that render my argument invalid?
None of those things have anything to do with DJI geofence... Do you realize that?

AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-2-3 21:06
Yeah.... I realize that. I Know all about Sect 333's and NOTAM and COAS.....How did you gather I di ...

Because most SAR / EMS / Fire systems are ignoring UAVs until the FAA gets its act together.  If and when it does we will look at what products are available and useful.  The P3 is really too lightweight of a unit to really consider it as a contender.

But if you want to get all wound up about something that may or may not be a problem, be my guest.

WetDog Posted at 2016-2-3 21:37
Because most SAR / EMS / Fire systems are ignoring UAVs until the FAA gets its act together.  If a ...

im not wound up at all..... I just didn't understand how you interpulated that somehow my disapproval of DJI's geofence somehow meant I wasn't aware of... or prone to brake certain rules.

Selection of heavy duty aircraft  never was part of the topic.... as the other person stated it was between  a P3 or inspire.

not my buisness to choose a aircraft for someone..... It is in my opinion that both craft are severely lacking in the category.  
I do believe that the inspire would have potential (especially now they have fitted an IR for it).... However due to GEO now.... its not so attractive

As I can see there are some very passionate responses to this topic as I expected there would be. We already have a few licensed pilots on our department and I am currently working on my pilots license as time and funds permit.  I find it ironic that many immediately want to squabble about this or that requirement or authorization and assume that no one else knows the true nature of all the 'red tape' required. During times of disaster and or when lives are on the line I still find it amazing what can be accomplished in a very short time and what governments at all levels will do once you make the request through proper channels. We have shutdown inland waterways for hours. We have shutdown airspace below 5,000' AGL to all but public safety with just a phone call.  Once your area has been declared a disaster area more often than not a phone call from your Emergency Opperations Center to XYZ state or federal agency will move heaven and earth to get you what you need regardless of the costs or waivers required to get the job done.

For all that you read about the huge risks taken, most public safety agencies are very risk adverse. There is a large amount of training and certifications to go with those opperations to get our insurance carriers to cover us. The only way that works is dotting the I's and crossing the T's which means all the paperwork must be in order prior to starting. We would much rather open a discussion prior to making a purchase than after the fact. I understand this area  of technology is rapidly growing.
The truth of the matter is with a new project like this even once we make the decision to move forward it probably would not happen our next budget year which starts in 2017. Then add the time for licensing / waivers, pilot training, and the considerable amount of time to write training, operating, and maintenance procedures which must be in place prior to using a new piece of technology like this , 18 to 24 months is a very real estimate.  We would rather not wait that long to get started. Plus as our pilots are learning I would much rather send an email to our chief that we crashed a 2,000 dollar drone that will need repair  than to have to make the 0200 call that we crashed a $25,000 dollar drone doing night training.

AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-2-4 00:53
Sadly you are in the same boat as many others here...
. In you're situation DJI claims you can unlo ...

Older versions of DJI firmware aren't blocked via GEO Fencing.

It may be possible to clear the firmware and install an older version as well as the old Pilot app.

Other than the way points follow me feature, I haven't seen anything in the newer versions that would push me to upgrading the firmware/software.

gregg1r Posted at 2016-2-4 07:35
Older versions of DJI firmware aren't blocked via GEO Fencing.

It may be possible to clear the fi ...

Yes... however if you have to insure this toy...as well as large number of 333's do  require the firmware to be up to date.
not to mention of you want to add support for things like a FLIR .... it will more then likely require an update.

therefore for an individual non updates might be a workable solution... but for companies its not.

For example  How many business do you know still running window's 97 or even XP for that matter?

Can't you just fly using other software?

I'm a licensed pilot and was told by support that didn't matter in a red zone. I've had my bird for 2 weeks and haven't flown it once :/

AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-2-4 17:49
Yes... however if you have to insure this toy...as well as large number of 333's do  require the f ...

There is no FAA requirement for running the latest firmware. If that were the case, the application for the 333 would require you to state what version you were using and bounced it against the DJI list.  The same goes for insuring the aircraft.

You haven't been around long enough to form an opinion on DJI and their firmware and software upgrades.  Here's a little advice, let someone else be the guinea pig. Early adopters of DJI firmware and software are unpaid BETA testers. The older members went thru this last year when DJI moved from 1.1.8 to the 1.2 versions and bricked thousands of quads for close to two months. Don't believe me, search the archives.

The P3 has no means to add FLIR cameras. The Inspire 1 does however. For the price of the Inspire and the FLIR camera, you can purchase a purpose built hexacopter with redundancies that the Inspire doesn't have. The DJI hex and octo copters are more suited for heavy lifts and safe flight operation.

I've got a $5000 dollar Nikon D810 and a 20-35mm lens on my hexacopter. If I lose a motor, I can still land. With any quad, you can watch it spiral toward the ground.

As for businesses running Windows XP, look no further that you local bank.  There is still support for XP.  As for Windows 97, doesn't exist. Maybe Windows 98 SE. Check it for yourself.

gregg1r Posted at 2016-2-4 16:15
There is no FAA requirement for running the latest firmware. If that were the case, the application ...

Ill have an opinion on whatever I like thanks... as far as the rest of you're statement. I'm not going to even argue my case with someone like you. I don't have the temperament. even if there is so validity in some of the things you, you don't have enough social skills for others to listen to it.

gregg1r Posted at 2016-2-4 20:15
There is no FAA requirement for running the latest firmware. If that were the case, the application ...

Greg,

If I wanted to look at 'purpose built' hexacopters where would I go looking? Search engines normally take me to one section or another of DJI.

INFF Posted at 2016-2-5 08:27
Greg,

If I wanted to look at 'purpose built' hexacopters where would I go looking? Search engines ...

Depending on the type of use, the photographic forums are a good starting point.

I'm using an Align M690L for my photography

There is a video posted on the forum doing a comparison of the Phantom and another copter that has a FLIR camera already mounted.

In the mean time, I'll see if I can get a list of turn key operation units
Regards,
Gregg

AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-2-4 20:40
Ill have an opinion on whatever I like thanks... as far as the rest of you're statement. I'm not go ...

Don't go away mad. Post the relevant section in the FAA regulations.

You stated that there was a requirement, so please post it.

Easy enough?

gregg1r Posted at 2016-2-5 22:57
Don't go away mad. Post the relevant section in the FAA regulations.

You stated that there was a  ...

Oh I'm not mad.... The fact that there is no hard regulation currently in place means nothing... You can go look at the 333's yourself and see how many folks refer to keeping firmware current with updates as part of their safety plan and check list.. If you want to run antiquated software with no support for modern hardware, go for it...No serious business is going to  operate like that.  I don't care what the hillbillies at you're local bank do.
I refuse to even talk about this anymore.... It's absurd

AlaskanTides Posted at 2016-2-5 16:42
Oh I'm not mad.... The fact that there is no hard regulation currently in place means nothing... Yo ...

So in other words, you have no cite for the FAA requiring the latest and greatest firmware and software. Gotcha!

It's not like we're talking about making equipment changes on the Phantom. It's got the same hardware that it had the day it left the DJI factory. Legally, you cant fly beyond visual, so I don't even need to use the DJI Pilot app other than to frame a shot.

The firmware/software that I'm running was the most stable platform that DJI had for the Phantom. I don't care about way points. The Professional camera hasn't been changed like the Advanced to 2700 DPI.

The last time I was in BoA, they were still using Windows XP. Don't go to the hospital, as a lot of the machines they use are still running XP.