soooooooo... I got told off today
I've got a problem with range on my P3 standard, I was fiddling with settings and giving it a little test flight when a chap came out of his house screaming and shouting!
His complaint was that he didnt want his house, which was about 100 metres from where I was flying, being filmed or photo's begin taken without his consent and that I was invading his privacy.
The fact is I wasn't filming anything at the time and just trying to fault find my poor range problem but I am a little anti-surveillance (says the man with a flying HD camera) so told him I accept his point and won't argue that he has a right to tell people like me to f*** off if he thought I was filming or photographing his home.........which I wasnt.
The problem is he then started spouting off about breaching privacy laws, his teenage son even piped up about having to gain consent to film or photo someone or their property which I know to be un true, my arguement was that by his logic; I would have to gain consent from anyone in the background of any photo I took that could be deemed to be on private property and you only have to flick through a newspaper or even facebook to know this doesn't happen, even google street view contradicts his point but he was adamant that the law was on his side so for the sake of the greater good we agreed that I won't fly near his house again but this now means I can't fly it in the park and if he's right, anywhere at all....

Needless to say I googled this, checked the CAA website, read articles on media websites and it seems to be a very grey area but was just wondering what your thoughts were or if you've had any similar experiences?


Cheers

Tell him to F... Off and he doesn't own the airspace above. On a serious note I would just walk away and fly elsewhere. This is the reason why I only fly out in the countryside away from knobs.

P3_Nutz Posted at 2016-2-16 18:44
Tell him to F... Off and he doesn't own the airspace above. On a serious note I would just walk away ...

Ha ha I nearly did mate but he was so irate that walking away would have just caused him to escalate it and I'm really conscious about people taking to facebook or local press complaining as the media lap it up.
I live half a mile from the beach and some areas are really secluded but you could argue that even there houses and people could be considered in shot...

Go back in a few days and do a POI around his house for 10 minutes, but hide while doing so!

I just don't get it. I could easily get a better picture of his house by standing on the sidewalk using my phone. Would he come out of this house screaming if I were standing down the block with my phone getting his house or son in the background?

JonF Posted at 2016-2-16 18:49
Ha ha I nearly did mate but he was so irate that walking away would have just caused him to escala ...

He sounds like an odd nutter to be honest and there's nothing he can do unless you are literally hovering above his property. Carry on enjoying your flights ;)

Well depends on where you live, but the FAA controls the air after 100+ feet in the United States so unless they plan to sue Google, Microsoft, and any other person/company that has a picture of his home, there is no privacy laws broken.  Even if they call the police, there is nothing the police can legally do except to ask if you could not fly over his home.
unless you are in a restricted zone, flying right above to cause harm, or local laws say stop, they have no legitimate right to to a privacy claim.

If you read the CAA guidelines, you'll have read the part about flying within 50 metres of any person, structure or vessel not under your control.  The reason for that is privacy.  If you don't have a camera on your drone you can get closer, so as long as you don't fly within 50 metres of him or his house there's nothing he can do.

If you walk on the pavement outside his house & take photos of him standing on his driveway with your camera, again, there's nothing he can do about it.  You can even sell the photos for editorial use if you want.

Most people not involved in commercial photography have a massively exaggerated belief in their privacy rights.

I'd like to say tell him to go f*** himself, but you're better off doing as you did to keep the peace.  You never know, he might ask you to take a look at his roof one day, at which point you can decline, citing the privacy of his neighbours.

nigelw Posted at 2016-2-16 14:40
If you read the CAA guidelines, you'll have read the part about flying within 50 metres of any perso ...

Maybe get a copy of the laws and give it to him.

As Nigel says as long as your more than 50 meters nothing he can do...
As for parks I've flown in parks normally when there has been no one in the park. At times people have walked into the park I normally fly it away from them.
If there are no local bi-laws and 50 meter rule I believe there is no reason why you can't fly it in a park.

Places to fly I believe is a major problem as there are no real dedicated drone clubs, thankfully  my local model fixed club are open minded about drones.

microcyb Posted at 2016-2-16 19:49
Maybe get a copy of the laws and give it to him.

Good point...

What we're governed by is article 167.  Article 166 covers drones without a camera.

Air Navigation Order

This discussion may also help.

I would have asked him why he was so irritated, do you have something to hide? Let me go look on Google Earth and see what's in your back yard!I use to be calm and try to keep the peace but people everywhere are getting so ridiculous I don't give a S**t any more.

Prior to buying my drone, I was talking to a guy who was flying an Inspire.  I asked if he ever had privacy complaints.  He stated that he had been approached a few times.  He said he would just show anyone concerned how wide angle of a shot the drone camera took.  He said most people thought he could zoom in tight and once they saw the view, had no problem.  He went on to say;  Look, I have more important things to do than try and peer into your bedroom.  AND, if there is anything THAT interesting going in in there, maybe they should sign a filming contract and make some real money.. :-)

The guy is probably working on a top secret project for the British government. That would be a lefrhand drive car

lotus1235@comca Posted at 2016-2-16 21:04
The guy is probably working on a top secret project for the British government. That would be a lefr ...

Why would anyone want to drive on the wrong side though?

As others have said, the 50 meter separation rule applies to houses (buildings, vehicles, vessels and people not under your control - 30 meters whilst taking off and landing) but you also have to remain 150 meters clear of any "congested area". Something the CAA defines as an area substantially used for residential or commercial purposes. More a judgement call for you on whether you believe this applies to your neighbor's house.

In regards to the other point, there is no right to privacy whilst in public; this includes the parts of residential areas that are visible from publicly accessible areas (e.g. the front door to your house) but there is an expectation of privacy in other areas (e.g. Your back garden).  Really depends on where you're flying.

The difficulty comes from the fact that your drone is fitted with a camera, and so becomes a small unmanned surveillance vehicle (as apposed to a small unmanned vehicle) and therefore potentially subject to the the data protection act. This is the same as you fitting a security camera to your house and it capturing images of your neighbors garden, or through their windows. In most cases you have to advise people that you're recording so they have the option to opt-out.

The other part is criminal law (not that I'm suggesting you broke any) in terms of harassment. Someone could in theory complain to the police that continual flying over their home constituted harassment / public order offence. I'm no legal expert so please do your own research.  This website is a really good starting point to get a clearer picture. ICO Website

I'd say you took the sensible route of pacifying the neighbor but there is a wider point where someone else's irritation at you flying your drone doesn't trump your right to freely fly it (whilst in compliance with all local laws of course). I feel most fliers in the UK are walking a thin line between freedoms of flying and responsibilities to others.

Happy and safe flying all

Invite him and his son over for a beer and soda and see if they may want to fly it... with a little instruction it should be safe enough... You may win a friend.

Butch

Sing this to him

gherd Posted at 2016-2-17 04:05
Prior to buying my drone, I was talking to a guy who was flying an Inspire.  I asked if he ever had  ...

That is a good point, I think most people think drones will be zooming in and looking through their windows.  They don't realize even though the camera on a Phantom is HD, you can barely recognize a face at 100 feet in the footage.

I don't have that problem where I live.
But shit, you can look at his front porch with Google maps....what does he have to say about that?
And that is anybody that has a computer.
I would try to get him over for beer like the previous poster said. Sit down with him and show him what you got.
You can't spy. If he don't accept that then tell him your sorry, but you will fly where ever it is legal for you to do so.
He may not like the answer but it will be the right one.


Mike

microcyb Posted at 2016-2-16 14:13
Well depends on where you live, but the FAA controls the air after 100+ feet in the United States so ...

he is in the UK

FAA not applicable

My neighbor wants me to fly my drone outside her bedroom window, her Doctor gave her some hormone pills and she is totally out of control...........
But the usual I get from people who know nothing about drones is they are used to peer in bedrooms.........media most likely formed their views.

snowsurferss Posted at 2016-2-17 10:24
My neighbor wants me to fly my drone outside her bedroom window, her Doctor gave her some hormone pi ...

This is true.
I get the same thing. They think its a spy plane..lol

Drones make terrible spying or invasion of privacy devices.

For one thing, they're noisy unless they're very far away from the subject, then:

The wide-angle camera. Add distance to that, you're getting no resolvable detail. But most people I've talked to on the subject of 'wide-angle' look confused. Just say "this thing does not zoom in at all". That might help. If they're agreeable enough to look at your FPV screen, consider yourself lucky.

I have a 500mm lens on a DSLR camera that's pretty dang quiet. They should be more concerned about that, eh?

Lastly, I ask them: "when was the last time you saw someone with a drone actually invading someone's privacy?" I can recall any at all myself.

So ask them, "Why do you think I am invading your privacy? Because I'm not, you know, especially from 100 meters away."

But in the end, it doesn't matter. They already have NO GOOD REASON to have these fears, but they have them anyway. It's like when phone answering machines were new. "I'll never leave a message on a freakin' phone computer!", or the wireless cell-phone ear-bud, "I don't want to be a part of YOUR conversation!".

Some people just have the weirdest hang-ups about new things. I'm not sure there's a lot we can do about it in the near term.

Tell that wanker to shut his pie hole!  I just love British humor and couldn't resist slinging a little at the situation.  t know how you feel OP.  My first flight in my neighborhood was met with a 20 year long neighbor asking if I had a license to fly that thing.  Thought of telling him to go F*** himself but, as you all have mentioned, decided to err on the side of keeping good neighbors.  I told him a license wasn't required for the drone but for the pilot and, yes I had the FAA license.  Funny how folks want free reign of the world but one drone fly by gets them all excited.  My neighbor owns a beautifully restored vintage Porsche.  I'm going to offer him to drive down a beautiful country road while I film him from above and give him the video along with some still photos.  I think he'll like the idea and likely quit bitchin about drones.  Fly smart and safe my friends.

The immediate reposonse that I'm armed with is "Civil Aviation Authourity rules say I'm allowed to fly as long as I'm more than 50 metres away from you. So even if I was viewing your house, which I assure you I'm not, the distance and the wide angle lens on drones means the view is worse than Google Earth.   Come and look for yourself....."  

Most people are intrigued by drones and are really interested once you show them the display.  That said, you need to watch out that they're not aggressive and likely to grab your remote, which is then a criminal offence, but isn't a situation you want to get into.  You can also point out it's no different to a hot air balloon flying over their house....

However, in fairness, the   CAA do not allow you to fligh over or within 150 metres of a 'Congested Area' defined as  “in relation to a city, town or settlement, means any area which is substantially used for residential, industrial, commercial or recreational purposes” (see Article 255 of the Air Navigation Order 2009)
https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial ... -unmanned-aircraft/
So, if he is in a town or city, you have to stay more than 150 metres away by the rules, so the park or open area you're flying in needs to be big.

I've also printed off those rules, and the CAA Exemption allowing FPV flights up to 400 metres, just in case anyone (including PC Plod) doesn't believe you....  Not needed them yet, but I tend to fly well away from houses.
Cheers,
Ian

JonF Posted at 2016-2-16 18:49
Ha ha I nearly did mate but he was so irate that walking away would have just caused him to escala ...

Your not in Southampton area, are you?

This actually happened to me yesterday. My neighbor ran over and was yelling saying I was flying over their house. I said if I did, I do apologize. He then went on yelling he was going to shoot it down.   Just looked at him and  said nothing more. I was in beginner mode lying in my own back yard working on getting comfortable with the app and controls. But when I looked at all 6 of my flight histories, only one did I cross the far back corner of their yard . Never once was it over anyone or any house.  But what kinda funny, when I went back to look at what I had recorded, again over my house and looking straight down on my house, I saw the mom and older son (19) running over and yelling.   While I do completlely agree with privacy, I would hope that they would have come over calmly and not threaten me that they were going to shoot  my P4 down.  Not sure why they think someone even would want to record them either.

I remember a while back,  here in the U.S., it was proposed that any homeowner who wished to do so could have his home address added to the No fly zone list. Thus ensuring that no drones could fly near his property. I don't know what happened to this legislation or if it was even true,  but that would be a good solution,  even if a logistical nightmare. Or, you could just tell them that they can have their home added to the no fly zone list if they were concerned and let them do the necessary homework as to how to go about doing that.  Hell,  it may even be true.  And most are probably too lazy to check it out anyway.
I fly in a very low population area  and anyone I have encountered has only displayed friendly curiosity.  Hopefully it stays that way.

Everyone is generally friendly towards my flights, most have actually stayed around a few minutes to watch me fly around. The only time that something was amiss, was when I was flying around my backyard recording, and I caught a neighbor a house down from mine with her camera out aimed at my drone. Never got a complaint or visit but was a bit odd.

Kneepuck Posted at 2016-4-18 02:24
I remember a while back,  here in the U.S., it was proposed that any homeowner who wished to do so c ...

No Fly Zone

Here ya go, didnt think it was a bill but it is a voluntary website, no idea if any of the makers are adding it or not. And yup, got a couple of them near me that are in there.

airphantomphoto Posted at 2016-4-17 13:47
No Fly Zone

Here ya go, didnt think it was a bill but it is a voluntary website, no idea if any o ...

Fantastic!  That provides a solution,  at least to American drone owners.  If someone objects to your flight,  refer them to this.  Even though the laws already provide for their privacy anyway,  this will make them feel like they have an option aside from hassling you.  And that's all we really want,  to not be hassled while engaging in our hobby.

If the attitude was very bad in the OP's encounter, I think I would have gone down to the police station when convenient, and had a talk with them about your neighbor harassing you.  Let them know you don't want to press charges, but would like them to be aware of it in case something comes up in the future.  Let them know you are aware of the laws that govern your flights, and that you obey them.  Be sure you are very friendly in your talk to them.

Kneepuck Posted at 2016-4-18 08:26
Fantastic!  That provides a solution,  at least to American drone owners.  If someone objects to y ...

Not much of a solution at all.
From their FAQ:
What drone companies are in the NoFlyZone participant community?

As of our launch, participating drone companies include PixiePath, Ehang (maker of the Ghost-Drone), HEXO+, Horizon Hobby, and RCFlyMaps. PixiePath is an operating system provider that plans to offer their end-user customers NoFlyZone data. Ultimately, it will be up to those end-users to determine if they want to avoid properties registered with NoFlyZone. Ehang, HEXO+, and Horizon Hobby sell drones and are working to incorporate NoFlyZone data into their products in the future. RCFlyMaps provides information to drone operators on safe unsafe areas for drone flying and will display NoFlyZone data as "not recommended".

This was a lame idea that went nowhere.
DJI didn't join in and neither did may mainstream drone makers.
It just gives self-important gullibles a feeling that their special private airspace is protected from invasion by evil drones.

labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-4-17 17:22
Not much of a solution at all.
From their FAQ:
What drone companies are in the NoFlyZone participan ...

It just gives self-important gullibles a feeling that their special private airspace is protected from invasion by evil drones

My point exactly.