After weeks of reading almost every post on this forum i seem to notice a pattern and wanted thoughts on it (please forgive me as i am still confusing some parts and aspects of the platforms, gimbals, cameras, etc so apologies in advance for incorrect statements, just correct me, thx)...

it seems like many of the flyaway issues i hear people talking about are the P2V+ versus the plain P2V.  does anyone else notice that?  is it just because more people get the + so there is just more stories etc or is there some correlation?

ive been getting a bit anxious the more i read, particularly since there seem to be other accessories that i keep finding i want and i hate to buy things and be stuck with it after a flyaway for example.  

it got me to thinking, first about if there seemed to be some pattern and thoughts on why the + would seem to have more problems, but then i also wondered, what is my actual loss exposure here if i am willing to build another one from ordering parts.  i paid like 700 for the package but that included the RC the range extender, etc so does anyone know how much just the unit would cost to replace (retail cost compared to build from parts cost)?

lastly, ill say i really appreciate all of the dialogue on this forum.  many of you spend LOTS of your time helping others out and those of us that are still new to this greatly appreciate it.

In my opinion 99% of all the flyaway issues come from inexperienced users not learning how to operate the aircraft before launching it into the sky, or not taking into account the other variables such as weather and wind speed.
The Vision + is probably the more popular aircraft for new users with no previous flying experience as its "ready to fly" without having to spend hours on the kitchen table putting it all together, so that in its self is one good reason why more users have "issues" with it, from not being able to turn on the battery to connecting their phone and the dreaded "flyaway".
I was a new user and went for the V+ for its all in one package bonus, and have been flying it since July last year with no issues at all, but I did my homework and read the manuals before setting off into the unknown.

Hi gnixon2015,

I've bought a Vision+ unit plus a spare unit from April and August 2014. One is my primary flight unit, the other one sat in a box as redundancy. These units are the original version 2 unit, DJI now sell version 3.

Both units exhibit loss of several GPS satellites when recording video (both 1080p/30fps and 720p/60fps). This has been the biggest issue, and I've modify the units with additional shielding to help alleviate the problem.

My primary unit has had over 200 flights (totalling the cycle counts on all five batteries). Over this time, I've flown it in all sorts of reasonable environmental conditions and it has been quite reliable. I also take a great deal of care on my equipment and thoroughly check everything out before and after each flight session.

However, a month ago I almost lost my primary unit due to an unexplained behaviour which caused the Phantom to tilt severely to one side, loss of responsiveness to RC controls and lost altitude from 30m to the ground in a matter of seconds. This occured on a photographic job about 15mins into the flight. I had 35% battery life remaining and 9 GPS satellites locked, I was in GPS-ATTI mode while it was behaving uncontrollably in the air. I was away from any power lines, and obvious RF transmitters. Fortunately I was able to recover the unit and it still flies normally; which means the ESC, critical flight components and RC transmitter work. I have since sent that unit back to my reseller and waiting for news. my speculation on the root cause was the sensors feeding incorrect data to the flight controller, perhaps the GPS as it was Kp index was 3, hitting 4 over the 24 hour period.

One thing I would recommend is a GPS tracker, if it wasn't for this unit it would of made finding a downed aircraft much harder.

Trust me when I say that I didn't believe in flyaways until it actually happened to me. I'm a very cautious and take care of all of my equipment and always run through a check list and do compass calibration before flight in a new area. But once something like that happens to you, it really highlights the potential harm and financial loss that could result.

Since these devices have no engineered redundancy of critical flight systems or mitigations from system failure, I consider them borderline disposable equipment. Any form of critical flight hardware, major interference or software bug will caused major damage or complete loss of aircraft.

As a result, in my mind, any future purchases will be planned and budgeted accordingly.

Boy, there is a world of difference between peoples "perceptions" and reality.  Granted, there are a number of things that influenced those issues over the last few months.  Not the least of which has been some faulty firmware updates, a modification by DJI of the shielding for the GPS unit and an improved version of the Phantom 2 Vision+ that had it's own list of teething pains.  

For the most part I agree with johnwarr.  However, I am going to downgrade the percentage just a tad since I myself had a flyaway two months after I got my P2V+  (this was not my 1st Phantom).  About 6 minutes into what had been, up to that point, a perfectly controlled flight it ended in a catastrophic crash that ruined everything BUT the camera (which I thought was ironic considering all the reports of ribbon cables breaking with seemingly minor incidents -- perception?)  Anyway, I sent it off dreading 1)a worthless warranty 2)the lengthy wait and 3) the crappy service that everybody complained about.  So, imagine my astonishment and delight when I received a refurbished replacement in less than 4 weeks! (3 more perceptions blown away)

Are you referring to a Phantom 2 or a Phantom 2 Vision + -- I'm not sure what to tell you regarding your question of "willing to build another one from ordering parts" (There is always eBay).  By the way, I couldn't decide between the P2V+ and the Phantom w/ H3-3D so I got both of them.  Yeah, this is NOT an inexpensive hobby and there is nothing you can do to completely eliminate all risks -- except don't participate.  

Hmmm... my train of thought just got derailed... Dang, was I making a point?  Well look, if you've been active on the forum for any length of time (and it looks like you have) you have more than likely already formed some "perceptions" of your own about which posts are from the peanut gallery and which ones are from the whole peanut factory (not sure where I fall in that spectrum -- don't answer that!)

I feel like I should end with something pithy and profound so consider this:  "It's only a bad experience if you didn't learn anything"

not trying to eliminate all risks (and i have the P2V btw).  what i was saying was that 9 out of 10 'flyaway' posts on this board seem to be PLUS not NONPLUS.  you dont notice that?  (and i am saying 9 out of 10 posts of only the P2V and P2V+ varieties, not other ones like inspire, P2, etc).

as for the build question, what i was asking is for two dollar amounts.  if i had a flyaway, and bought a new unit RETAIL (without all the extra shit that came with my 'package' the first time) how much would that be?  COMPARED to if i bought a shell, ESCs, yadda yadda, and built it, would that be 'cheaper' by that much, the same, or more expensive??  

i ask because IF i had a flyaway and the replacement cost (as an EXAMPLE for my point) were $400 in PARTS and a week or so to put one together.  that is different than having to spend the WHOLE $800 all over again.  just curious if anyojne had done that sort of analysis.  of course i could sit here all day on ebay and figure it out, but thought maybe someone else had already done or seen that analysis so that is really what/why i was asking.  sorry if you didnt get that rationale from the OP.  

I think you will have to buy the whole thing again, and then sell the bits you don't need.
I have yet to see anyone selling a full list of parts needed to build a vision from scratch, or indeed anyone that just sells the vision without the transmitter.

gnixon2015 Posted at 2015-1-10 21:55
not trying to eliminate all risks (and i have the P2V btw).  what i was saying was that 9 out of 10  ...

Heathcliff cost me $499 plus the cost of a new shell, about 60 dollars.  

thanks guys, thats what i was after.  and i still swear that it seems like 9 out of 10 flyaway posts are for P2V+ and not P2V.   

I agree that the regular Vision seems to have had less problems - perhaps the Gimbal and heavier strain (weight) added vibration and other factors. For those who want to take mostly still photos, the Visions are a bargain at the going prices. They will take a crash better also.

This is obviously not scientific in terms of failure data! Fact is, there has been so much good press on the Vision+ and so many newbies entering the field that it's likely the "universe" of P2V+ flyers in completely different than the earlier folks who bought the P2V's.

As an example - since I came from Balsa planes, model rockets and toy quads - the Phantom ended up being many times more reliable than all of those, so my satisfaction was high.
However, if I read some positive reviews on the P2V+ and had never flew before...and bought one and expected that it would work first time and every time and not become damaged in a crash, etc....well, I'd be very angry.

gnixon2015 Posted at 2015-1-11 00:23
thanks guys, thats what i was after.  and i still swear that it seems like 9 out of 10 flyaway posts ...

I think you're right. V+ may have more flyaways because the extra complexity. And video recording creates GPS interference, therefore a weaker GPS signal.
As joeztan said, you don't think in a non pilot error flyaway until it happens to you.

If we're to talk about 99%... The price of a P2V+ is not insignificant for 99% of population. It's kind of expensive and that makes the majority of users extra careful.
Yes, some of them have no previous rc experience, but, under normal conditions and good GPS signal, Phantoms are easy to fly.

Therefore, I disagree with the statement that 99% of flyaways are pilot errors. IMHO, the majority of flyaways are due to GPS issues, interference and software unable to handle that correctly.
Personally, I recovered from 3 flyaways and use ATTI mode when GPS reception is not very reliable... I also added GPS insulation and that seems to help.

You can argue that majority of crashes are user error... Or that you can indeed recover from software errors... I don't know.

johnwarr@live.c Posted at 2015-1-10 15:45
In my opinion 99% of all the flyaway issues come from inexperienced users not learning how to operat ...

Great post and so true homework is very necessary for success this this drone.
I'm like you I watched every video and read everything I could find on each of my Uav's (V+ and trainer Fc40)
I wonder how many people don't calibrate properly every time they fly or have actually updated firmware on both the copter and Tx? I too have been flying the v= since last July without issues one has to be aware of the surroundings and also possible gps interruption's via solar activity etc..

Only crash I had was a low altitude crash of 3 feet due to outside temp and the v+ lost signal due to 15 below windchill I was lucky to get the 4 mins of footage I got safely. I took into account the temp and kept the shoot short and low. I always fly with caution no need to push range etc just get the shot I want if possible without harm to the V+..The more you hotdog the more you'll find out bad things can happen.
Here is the video...