Hi i wondering if anyone know how they track the drone if i start flying over my house? I live near a airport and i dont want to disturb them. Can they track me when i fly on (ATTITUDE) mode ? without GPS? any one know this?

Great regards.

Nobody tracks you.  The aircraft knows where it is & where the no-fly zones are.

Who is "they" that you think is tracking your Phantom?
If anyone can track your Phantom (very doubtful that's possible) it will make no difference whether you use GPS or not.

nigelw Posted at 2016-4-12 06:28
Nobody tracks you.  The aircraft knows where it is & where the no-fly zones are.

Yes you are right.

Believe me; if you are in an actual no fly zone; not even ATTI mode will work for you!  The firmware disables the aircraft from flying in any mode if you try to fly in an official no fly zone.  

M Stuart K Posted at 2016-4-11 19:51
Believe me; if you are in an actual no fly zone; not even ATTI mode will work for you!  The firmware ...

Even if it is perfectly legal for you to fly there.

Right now, the Bird tracks itself whether you use GPS or not.

The FAA is currently testing equipment that does in fact track drones....and their RC. This of course is in the U.S. but I'm sure it's just a matter of time before you see it in your counrty.

SVTRay Posted at 2016-4-12 14:38
Right now, the Bird tracks itself whether you use GPS or not.

The FAA is currently testing equipme ...

Would you like to explain how that works?

It would be pretty easy.....
The same way as they track conventional Radio gear, and even Aircraft for that matter.

Geebax Posted at 2016-4-12 15:26
Would you like to explain how that works?

It's only going to have a very short range and cost a bundle.
Perhaps just the thing to put in at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave
The general usefulness would just about match the threat that a private drone would present.

harb@bigpond.ne Posted at 2016-4-12 15:34
It would be pretty easy.....
The same way as they track conventional Radio gear, and even Aircraft f ...

Actually, no it would not be easy. Having done that in years gone by. To get a fix on where any object that transmits radio frequencies you need to triangulate the position. And given the radio system used by most RC aircraft these days is frequency agile, it would be a nightmare to try and figure out what channel it was hopping to, not to mention having to eliminate all the WiFi routers in the neighbourhood.

Then there is the fact that the FAA essentially does nothing, they are a toothless tiger. They would not have the equipment, manpower or other resources required to perform this 'tracking'. And even if they did, for what?

I did this for a job for a couple of years, and trust me it can be done.....digital radio's make it even easier, every radio has a unique ID that makes it easy to track, yes you can use triangulation , but there are other ways to do it these days as well.
If they choose to do it or not will be a decision that they will make based on the threat the perceive , but if they choose to, its a pretty easy path to follow.

SVTRay Posted at 2016-4-12 14:38
Right now, the Bird tracks itself whether you use GPS or not.

The FAA is currently testing equipme ...

Given the bird flies at great line of sight altitudes that are just great for Radio Tracking, I won't at all be surprised to see Firmware ID's on Drones before long that allow them to use secondary radar to track the drones transponder like transmissions......
Its really a no brainer to do it around airports...most of the gear is there.....a dedicated Radar receiver and piggy backed antenna on their current rotating platform and they are away.
It really all depends on the threat they see to their aircraft......
A lot of the gear in the flight deck and on the ground are dedicated to warning them of things that should not happen......it still does though, and this is just another.
One thing is for sure, drones will not go away, so the time will come...

harb@bigpond.ne Posted at 2016-4-12 16:19
Given the bird flies at great line of sight altitudes that are just great for Radio Tracking, I won ...

'Given the bird flies at great line of sight altitudes that are just great for Radio Tracking...'

And the RC unit? Good luck with that. More to the point, why? Who is going to put those sort of expensive resources in the field to track a miserable consumer drone?

Geebax Posted at 2016-4-12 16:26
'Given the bird flies at great line of sight altitudes that are just great for Radio Tracking...'
...

The bird and RC are paired.....so track one and you have the other......Registering the product to get compulsory Firmware updates etc will soon confirm your address...... all pretty rudimentary.
And its not going to be a DJI issue....if drones keep going they way they are, all drones will be the same....all flight controllers will be the same or illegal, its a matter of time.
I hope it never happens, but the first drone to cause an aircraft accident all hell will break loose....there are to many dollars at stake.

harb@bigpond.ne Posted at 2016-4-12 16:31
The bird and RC are paired.....so track one and you have the other......Registering the product to  ...

No, it does not work like that. This has been discussed before, DJI will not, or cannot reveal any information about the owner of the aircraft, even when it will help return a lost aircraft to the owner, and in case you think they can be compelled to provide that information, remember they are a company in a communist country. And apart from that, there is nothing in the radio signal that identifies anyone.

They know exactly who you are, where you are flying and what you are thinking when you doff your tinfoil chapeau...

keep fly safe .. and let other to stay safe

Geebax Posted at 2016-4-12 16:42
No, it does not work like that. This has been discussed before, DJI will not, or cannot reveal any ...

If you believe that, they can't make you have a licence either.
A simple stroke of the pen can change that in a heart beat, if the authorities here choose to.
Don't be to sure they can't track you.....even back in the 70's a lot of CB operators thought they couldn't get caught either, the tech these days makes all thing possible, and if you don't think so you need to catch up with the times lol.
They may never bother, but if you think they can't, you are sadly mistaken.

Cale262 Posted at 2016-4-12 17:01
They know exactly who you are, where you are flying and what you are thinking when you doff your tin ...

Funnily enough, back when CB radio was illegal, and thats going back a long way lol.... they could identify the fingerprint of a radio via its unique spurious emissions.....
These days they don't have to, with Digital, all they have to do is capture data....and frequency hopping doesn't help...they can scan a whole band at once

harb@bigpond.ne Posted at 2016-4-12 17:12
If you believe that, they can't make you have a licence either.
A simple stroke of the pen can chan ...

You forget that the Chinese hate Western Society, they have the data and if you think they will give it up to any Western agency, you are kidding yourself. In any event, all they have is your email address, and that is insufficient evidence to convict you of anything.

And you have not answered my question, what data can they obtain from the radio signal that will identify you? In a court of law, that is.

I am not going to waste time arguing the point.
I am just telling you, that it is very easy to track any RF signal be it Analogue or Digital.
It is also very easy to Capture Data.
The powers that be here, can also very easily Ban sales of such units in any country they like...its their country.....unless Information on ownership etc is forthcoming, .......any company that relies on sales of their products will conform....
If they consider this to be a problem, they will simply make rules that will have to be complied with before a sale can be completed......just like gun laws or any other laws to make compliance compulsory.
You have no power at all, and neither does the manufacturer if it is to comply with import regulations........there are many products  like that right now......these will just be another if they choose to pursue it.
I am actually surprised they haven't enforce the Band plan usage of RC models yet..........It was DJI that enforced the rule with the downgrade to 8 channels, so as to comply.
I doubt very much DJI would stick their finger up to any government request ..... they are in the business of selling Drones, not upsetting governments....and so they should be.......if you want to fly in restricted area's just because you think you can get away with it, you are part of the problem, and the total reason these rules exist....

harb@bigpond.ne Posted at 2016-4-12 15:15
Funnily enough, back when CB radio was illegal, and thats going back a long way lol.... they could ...

I'm retired military... I know exactly how easy this really is but the fact is unless you are somehow a real threat, nobody with this tech is waisting it chasing a hobby drone pilot around.

What happens if you stray in to a no fly zone

Cale262 Posted at 2016-4-12 17:43
I'm retired military... I know exactly how easy this really is but the fact is unless you are some ...

Thats totally correct....we keep out of the no fly zones, and this whole thing is moot.

bjaystu@netspac Posted at 2016-4-12 17:59
What happens if you stray in to a no fly zone

DJI have fitted a small bomb inside the bird and it detonates











. lol


No not quiet lol

If you are in the zone it will not take off........if you fly into the zone it will stop and go no further....RTH

It is called "Geofencing" Google that acronym also try "Youtube". Picture a funnel with the tip at the Airport with the flared opening at the top. The top being the outer 5 mile approach (in the U.S.). at this time there is no tracking involved. Your Drone's program is using the Lat. & Long. to identify the no-fly zone. This applies to the upper end Drones. When you research it you will understand it.

Actually there is a way to fly in NFZ, just put a foil over the GPS module, so the drone will not connect to GPS and will allow you to fly in ATTI mode only. It's working, tested it 2-3 times in near NFZ.

It's all a mess - DJI impose NFZs whereas other manufacturers do not -  other manufacturers set max altitude to the legal maximum yet DJI does not - If we go by the FAA's B4UFLY NFZs we will all be grounded in the USA.

So rather than enforce NFZ or any other limitation, DJI could require the operator to include a valid FAA (or equivalent) registration in their profile and log in when powering up. The operator is now responsible.

DJI has a description of what to expect when you're in or near  no-fly zones.   http://wiki.dji.com/en/index.php ... ts_and_No-Fly_Zones

Geebax Posted at 2016-4-12 13:26
Would you like to explain how that works?

You think I developed this technology or something? How would I know how it works.

https://gcn.com/articles/2016/03/01/caci-drone-detection.aspx
"CACI’s proof-of-concept solution, called SkyTracker, uses strategically located radio frequency sensors to detect common UAS frequencies and triangulate the location of both the device and the operator. CACI describes its detection solution as “nonintrusive,” creating a passive electronic perimeter superior to geofencing."

Is it not as simple as tag the software to upload its path to the authority if its flown in an illegal area or altitude the next time it has a wifi signal.

SVTRay Posted at 2016-4-12 14:48
You think I developed this technology or something? How would I know how it works.

https://gcn.c ...

I know how it works.  {:2_30:}

microcyb Posted at 2016-4-13 03:34
I know how it works.

This is old news folks.

FAA successfully test drone detection at airport.

http://www.defenseone.com/techno ... ech-airport/126195/

SVTRay Posted at 2016-4-12 16:13
This is old news folks.

FAA successfully test drone detection at airport.

Now onto the real problem we face

microcyb Posted at 2016-4-13 04:26
Now onto the real problem we face

Kids, run along and let the grown ups talk.

SVTRay Posted at 2016-4-12 16:45
Kids, run along and let the grown ups talk.

Like I said, I know how this works, and I also know how to take control of a bird while in flight regardless if controlled by a user.
Clearly being rude is your strong point, but being computer scientist is mine.
Now then, One easy way is you detect a drone by seeking out any wireless connections from MAC addresses or any other device.
http://standards-oui.ieee.org/oui/oui.txt

You can use a common hack aircrack to put the wireless device into monitor mode to find the drones and drone owners. then use the aireplay to deauthenticate the true owner of the drone you are targeting. Once de-authenticated, you can connect as the drone is waiting for its owner to reconnect.
http://www.aircrack-ng.org/

So with this you can crack the: WEP and WPA PSK (WPA 1 and 2), take control or make it drop like a rock.

Now if you know anything about Raspberry Pi, you can make a simple home brew device with a couple wireless adapters.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009SQQF9C/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QYGNKQ/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003MTTJOY/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IHV326/

Now this is just one simple method, but there are other ways even by GPS hack that could trick the bird to its location and also gain access.

If you use more high end equipment, you can perform a full radar scan to locate a bird, and execute a take over of the device.

So, you might not want stop calling someone a kid and assuming they have less knowledge.  I just choose not to give details and this is just but a very small taste.

And yes, this has been known and done many times already so this is not something in thoery.
http://theaviationist.com/tag/aircrack-ng/

http://theaviationist.com/2011/12/15/gps-spoofing/

http://theaviationist.com/2009/1 ... -security-problems/
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140206-can-drones-be-hacked

If you want some sample code, here ya be.
https://github.com/samyk/skyjack
Granted this is old school and does not have any brute force techniques, but you can get the general idea with his sample code.

And now onto the WiFi
http://codebangers.com/how-to-ha ... -hacked-wepwpawpa2/

microcyb Posted at 2016-4-13 05:06
Like I said, I know how this works, and I also know how to take control of a bird while in flight r ...

Clearly being rude? Did you hit your head on something?

I was replying to someone else when you chimed in saying you know how it works and posted a tin foil hat meme? I replied posting another link to helpful information and you replied with yet another childish meme? Then you're offended when I don't take you seriously? Good grief.

SVTRay Posted at 2016-4-12 16:25
Clearly being rude? Did you hit your head on something?

I was replying to someone else when you c ...

Someone lost all sense of humor..



Back to orginal question at hand.

Hi i wondering if anyone know how they track the drone if i start flying over my house? I live near a airport and i dont want to disturb them. Can they track me when i fly on (ATTITUDE) mode ? without GPS? any one know this? Great regards.

At this time DJI nor any governments are actively tracking recrational or commercial based UAS.
But, this does not mean in any way it is not possible.  It is quite possible to track and also bring down a radio controlled or WiFi controlled craft since the encryptions are weak for WiFi and even weaker for GPS.

Plans are in the works to propse new regulations and hire third party companies to enable a radar based tracking system to monitor and also take down a UAS near airports and other restricted areas.

This of course is will take time and you might not start really seeing this for a couple more years, but rest easy that DJI even if from Hong Kong are more focused on the reatil aspect and sales and not focused on spying.  It will be more from hackers and from government contracted firms rather then the makers of these products.

stephen.h.watso Posted at 2016-4-12 00:16
Even if it is perfectly legal for you to fly there.

If the drone determines that you are in a no fly zone; correct, it will not fly in any mode!