Is it possible to fly a Phantom 2 / gopro / zenmuse H3-3D WITHOUT an FPV system? Will the gimbal function without an FPV?
I do not need to monitor the video or control the camera in flight. I will look at the video later. I do however want the camera to remain level.
What do the cables between the aircraft and the camera allow?
Will the gimbal keep the camera level without these cable connections?
I am new to everything about this, online searches have not been helpful. Any directions to appropriate resources would be much appreciated.
Thank you!

Yes you can fly without FPV, the Phantom's rear LED's will give you all the basic information you need.
Here is the DJI video on how to connect the Zenmuse gimbal
It will need to be connected to the Phantom to work.

Aloha pagecarr,

     As john is showing you with the video, yes you can fly without FPV.  You are right to note you want the camera to remain level.  The Zenmuse does that very well.  However, the H3-3D is a couple years old and is for the GoPro Hero 3 camera.  Is that the camera you have?  If you have the Hero 4, Zenmuse has the H4-3D.  I mention this because there may be a compatibility issue.

     John points out how the lights help you orient the P2 toward your scene of interest.  There are also colored propguards you can buy that are really helpful in orienting your P2.  I have black and white quick release propguards that let me see which way it is facing at 1000 feet distance.  During the day I use white in front and at night I use black in front.  But, you have to keep your camera tilt oriented so the propguards stay out of the scene you are shooting.  

     The best way to keep your camera tilt oriented correctly is experience.  You will learn how to keep it aimed slightly down and then leave it alone!  If you have the P2 v3, the remote controller comes with a camera tilt dial.  After a while you will be able to guess when it is pointed down enough to miss the propguards.  Even if you do not get the propguards, the props will sometimes get in the picture or video, so you will want to know how to deal with this.

     Another, way props and propguards get in the video or photo is when you travel fast or face into the wind.  The Zenmuse will keep that camera level and the P2 will tilt to compensate for speed or wind and that will put the props or propguards in the scene.  The P2 / Zenmuse system is best for shots angled from straight down to 10 degrees down from horizontal.  If you need good imagery, plan for that.

     Lastly, the P2 H4-3D system allows you to use the GoPro WiFi for remote viewing.  You can make this work with your P2 for FPV, but it is very short range due to conflict with the DJI Remote Control system.  What you can do is start with the GoPro WiFi to get up to 30-50 feet and frame your camera view for conditions and the settings you want to use, then shut down the GoPro WiFi even if you have to bring the P2 back down again.  But, you should be able to shut off the GoPro WiFi based remote control at altitude so it no longer interferes with your P2 Remote Controller.

     Hope this helps!

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetaman Posted at 2016-6-16 09:30
Aloha pagecarr,

     As john is showing you with the video, yes you can fly without FPV.  You are r ...

The H4-3D is just a balanced H3-3D and trimmed so there is no side button interference on the GoPro. The H33D with a couple counterbalanced coins works fine on the H33D.

And also I wouldn't use the GoPro's wifi while you are flying. It will blind the controllers and possibly cause flyaways especially if you don't understand the red/yellow/green warnings. And the lag and range is atrocious for FPV. I wouldnt risk it.

quanthonytrang Posted at 2016-6-15 16:34
The H4-3D is just a balanced H3-3D and trimmed so there is no side button interference on the GoPr ...

Aloha anthony,

     From my research and use of the H4-3D, the differences involved a bit more (and more problems) than you indicate.  But, that is OK.  You point out problems with many aspects of the P2 and GoPros.  (I was actually able to get the GoPro out to 300 feet without problems, other than connectivity, before I gave up.)  That is important and shows what a sweet product the P3s are.

Aloha and Drone On!

johnwarr@live.c Posted at 2016-6-16 05:59
Yes you can fly without FPV, the Phantom's rear LED's will give you all the basic information you ne ...

John,
Thank you so much for the quick response, and I am glad to know I can fly without FPV. I think the remaining question is about the gimbal: will it work without the connections / cable / anti-interference board?
The gimbal has motors so I am wondering whether it can work by gravity, as on a sailboat (the gimbals I am familiar with).
Yes, I have seen this and several other assembly videos, but none that explain what the functions of the connection cable and anti-interference reinforcement board, or gimbal 8-pin ports are.
I can assemble it all following these videos, but I would like to know how much of this is necessary if I won't be using FPV. I won't be using FPV because the gopro wifi will interfere with the controller signal, and I am willing to fly without previewing the video. I also understand that there is a significant lag in wifi transmission of images.)
I am not an RC hobbyist. I am an artist and I also teach art at a college (video and still imaging), and I am willing and I believe able to learn the tech side.
Many thanks again for any guidance.

Next I will respond to the others.

Cetaman Posted at 2016-6-16 07:30
Aloha pagecarr,

     As john is showing you with the video, yes you can fly without FPV.  You are r ...

Aloha, Cetaman.
Thank you for all this good information!
Yes, I already had a Hero3 when I bought this P2, right before someone flew one into the whitehouse lawn, prompting new restrictions. I live inside the Washington beltway and teach in an art program at a public college, so I did not want to risk flying my phantom, for a year. : (  I do not need to lose my job by flying a drone.)
Now that the restrictions are clear, and I am on summer break, I've registered and found locations farther away from the city to fly within FAA regulations, and am eager to do so this summer.
I have flown the P2 without the camera (that was FUN!) but within line of sight and at low altitude (below 25 feet). I found flying to be quite intuitive, but of course I am flying in daylight (per the Washington area restrictions)and  not flying far or high. So yes, I can easily see how the craft is oriented.
Now I'd like to try recording video. I would be happy simply to start the video recording before take off, and then see what I get. No wifi.
'shots angled from straight down to 10 degrees down from horizontal' will be just perfect, for my initial art projects. I think of it as an alternative to a jib or crane, for cinematography.
SO my big naive question is: what controls the zenmuse? I gather it does not work on gravity alone. You talk about controlling camera tilt, as distinct from the aircraft pitch. How do I control camera tilt with the zenmuse?
I guess you might be laughing at this question : )
I will be super grateful for guidance or links to resources.
(Thank you for the heads up on props and prop guards, too)
Page

quanthonytrang Posted at 2016-6-16 10:34
The H4-3D is just a balanced H3-3D and trimmed so there is no side button interference on the GoPr ...

Thanks, Anthony.
Yes, it is for all these reasons I do not plan to fly with wifi or FPV, but need to know how!
Would you mind telling me more about the countercoins you mention?
I have a Hero3.
(I am perfectly happy for now to download the video later, for the kind of work I am doing. One day i might consider a different system with FPV)
Page

Cetaman Posted at 2016-6-16 16:42
Aloha anthony,

     From my research and use of the H4-3D, the differences involved a bit more (a ...

Research??
I pull them apart. The parts are interchangeable and they use the same pitch/roll boards and flex cable. Trust me, DJI just slapped a rename H33D firmware and rebalanced to accommodate for the Hero4. All you need to do is use padding to prevent the accidental button trigger and add a few coins to counter balance.

pagecarr@gmail. Posted at 2016-6-17 12:39
Thanks, Anthony.
Yes, it is for all these reasons I do not plan to fly with wifi or FPV, but need  ...

This is a Hero 3+ BE on a H33D 1.0. Notice it still drops to one side when off even though its designed for the 3 series.


To get best performance from your gimbal and prevent mid air snapping or resetting, its best you find neutral balance on your gimbal. Neutral balance is when the gopro floats when the gimbal is off. Ie, it doesn't flop to one side. The best way to balance is with Velcro and coins. I place Velcro on back of the mounting plate and on the opposite side on the tilt motor.

I don't have a photo of the neutral balanced setup, but here it is flying. Notice I have ND filter and a coin on the opposite side to minimise stress on the motors (stress is measured by heat - if you cant keep your finger on the motor for more than 10 seconds than the motor is going to burn out)..



And to answer your question - if you want FPV go this path:
DJI AVL58 Transmitter + mushroom antenna (glue the antenna to prevent the transmitter from accidently frying)
Mini IOSD - telemetry for sats, batt, alt, speed etc
Flysight display with 32ch receiver + mucshroom antenna
DJI Hub - plug and play for easy cabling.

pagecarr@gmail. Posted at 2016-6-17 12:33
Aloha, Cetaman.
Thank you for all this good information!
Yes, I already had a Hero3 when I bought  ...

The zenmuse H33D tilt is controlled by the 7th channel on your controller. If you have the 4xAA battery controller with 2 holes in the back, then you will need to install a 7th channel tilt slider (about 5bucks on ebay). You can use a Phillips head screw driver and see how it works. Just make sure you know which hole (the other is CE/FCC range). An be delicate as the potentiometer is fragile.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hobby ... :g:HakAAOSwsB9WBE4K

If you have the built lipo (upgraded) controller then you just need to calibrate the tilt in both DJI RC12 and Phantom assist PC/Mac program.

pagecarr@gmail. Posted at 2016-6-17 12:11
John,
Thank you so much for the quick response, and I am glad to know I can fly without FPV. I thin ...

Anti interference (AI) board does sweet nothing. I've tested both digital and analogue AI boards. The board is only good as a fuse and an extension for short zenmuse cables. DJI released this to minimise the horizontal lines in FPV (didn't make a difference). The horizontal lines are from the charging of the gopro.



And using gravity to have the tilt axis flop down is possible. I wouldn't do it if you are not mechanically minded. The H33D has a flex cable that connects to 3 motors and to the Gopro Mounting plate. You need to disconnect the tilt motor's flex cable. Use a paper clip and bend a tiny j. You need to slide the paper clip in the hole where the flex cable and hook to release the pressure tab. Use a torch and you will see it pop-up. Then slide the flex cable out and let it hang or tape it up.

The disable tilt motor will not affect the initialisation.
And finally, a gravity dangling gopro may not have the desired results. Inertia will just cause the camera to swing back and fourth on the tilt axis if you do heavy braking or accelerating.

quanthonytrang Posted at 2016-6-16 17:53
Research??
I pull them apart. The parts are interchangeable and they use the same pitch/roll board ...

Aloha anthony,

     It is OK.  Remember, this thread could have gone either way and your hands on approach with the H3 is what is relevant in this case.  My research supports what you are saying from your hands-on approach, including the AI board (?although it may have gotten me an extra 100 feet?).  The problem for me was to get FPV, I kept having to add weight to the P2 and I felt this was excessive for my needs.  So, I went on to the other Phantoms, but I still have my H4 for underwater use and the kind of flying Page is interested in with my P2.

     BTW, do you know if the P2s have the built in altitude limit of the later Phantoms?  I was looking at some of my earlier videos and it looked like I was higher than 400 feet.  I cannot recall anything limiting altitude unless you did it voluntarily using a OSD.

     It looks like Page has more than enough help here.  Keep up the good effort.

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetaman Posted at 2016-6-17 16:46
Aloha anthony,

     It is OK.  Remember, this thread could have gone either way and your hands on ...

The current P3's and P4's have a 500m limit but is factory set to 120m
My P2 is on firmware 3.08 and I can exceed 500m (yes meters) easily. Just make sure you allow this in your geofence setting on the P2 Phantom assist software. I set mine to 9999999999m for both radius and height. And honestly, I have never needed to fly higher than 100m. From what I've seen, its boring up there.

Pagecarr,

Go to THIS page, it has all the details on the gimbal, including the manuals and fitting instructions.

Hope it helps you

quanthonytrang Posted at 2016-6-16 21:15
The current P3's and P4's have a 500m limit but is factory set to 120m
My P2 is on firmware 3.08 a ...

Aloha anthony,

     Mahalo!  Sorry, but I like high PANs.  It sure looked like the altitudes of my early PANs were higher with the P2.  I will check my P2 Assistant software to see if I have used a setting.  That bird needs to get up in the air anyway.

Aloha and Drone On!

quanthonytrang Posted at 2016-6-17 12:09
This is a Hero 3+ BE on a H33D 1.0. Notice it still drops to one side when off even though its des ...

Thank you, Anthony, and I hope I am understanding this so far:
• When the gimbal is off IE not being powered by a GCU (on Phantom 2) it can self-balance by gravity if the aircraft is 'floating' (with no abrupt motions)
• It may require small counterweights to achieve proper neutral balance, by trial and error.

So I wonder what will happen if I attach the gopro to the gimbal (with battery charged and wifi off), turn on record video, fly around gently, land, stop recording, remove camera, and see what I get. Are there other things I need to do or control?
Are there other controls in my (basic) Phantom 2 system I don't know about? Will the gimbal 'talk' to the controller I have? (there is no additional GCU or Assistant or FPV)

Thank you for the FPV notes, which I'll keep for future reference. Right now I need to see what I can do with what I have.

quanthonytrang Posted at 2016-6-17 12:16
The zenmuse H33D tilt is controlled by the 7th channel on your controller. If you have the 4xAA ba ...

Thank you again, Anthony.
The controller I have has a slide lever pitch controller lever on the back (built-in white plastic, next to two holes).
I am looking for instructions on its use, now that I know what it is.

quanthonytrang Posted at 2016-6-17 12:30
Anti interference (AI) board does sweet nothing. I've tested both digital and analogue AI boards.  ...

Anthony, I am trying to reply to each of your helpful messages.
I haven't installed the anti-interference board but it seems I need to even if it doesn't do much. It seems to be part of the connection to the cable for communication with the controller.
This is the part that I need to understand: what is communicated exactly between controller and gimbal? It makes sense that a dangling camera will swing back and forth and I have been assuming the gimbal has motors to stabilize such motion.
Some of the cables etc make this possible, correct? The gimbal isn't self-stabilizing, and needs information from the controller, right? Is any of this automatic, once connected, or does the flight operator have to control any of this?
(without FPV, GCU, or Assistant)

pagecarr@gmail. Posted at 2016-6-18 01:22
Anthony, I am trying to reply to each of your helpful messages.
I haven't installed the anti-inter ...

You do not need FPV but the cables do have to be plugged in correctly as the data goes back and forth to tell the gimbal to keep lovel.

johnwarr@live.c Posted at 2016-6-17 15:28
Pagecarr,

Go to THIS page, it has all the details on the gimbal, including the manuals and fitting  ...

Thanks for the link to the DJI manuals, John. Yes, I have read those and I believe I can assemble it no problem. The zenmuse manual provides lots of information for other models (other  than my phantom 2) and for a Gimbal Control Unit,  NAZA , assistants,  FPV. I have none of these. I am looking for a clear explanation about how the gimbal and controller work, without FPV. The instructions seem to assume I  already know how the controller and gimbal work. I do not.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-6-18 01:25
You do not need FPV but the cables do have to be plugged in correctly as the data goes back and fo ...

Thank you Ken. This is the basic information I needed, and you have also brought other important things to my attention. I now have a related question: Do you know if I need to download/install the Phantom 2 assistant software, for what I am doing? (I don't have a windows computer)
I am ever grateful for your help!
Might be trying all this over the weekend! (weather permitting)

pagecarr@gmail. Posted at 2016-6-17 13:00
Thank you yet again. This is what I the basic information I needed, and you have also brought othe ...

As I said, You can update either with or on your computer  so a computer is not needed necessarily. In case you ever had to do a sensor calibration, it cain only be done on the computer, but you may never need to do one of those calibrations.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-6-18 04:15
As I said, You can update either with or on your computer  so a computer is not needed necessarily ...

Thanks, DJI-Ken, but I am not sure where to find the information you say you provided before on this, but I take it I do not need the Assistant software. looking forward to flying.
Thank you, everyone else, too!

Ken,
Unless I missed something here, pagecaarr' questions are on a P2!, not sure how this video relates,
Again, maybe I missed something.

pagecarr@gmail. Posted at 2016-6-17 13:00
Thank you Ken. This is the basic information I needed, and you have also brought other important th ...

Do you have a Mac computer?
All the software is available via the link johnwarr provided for a Mac as well as a Windows computer.
I am fairly certain there is no other way to do updates/calibrations within the RC or Phantom 2 without a computer,
With the newer phantoms P3/P4 you can download updates via your tablet/mobile

quanthonytrang Posted at 2016-6-17 12:16
The zenmuse H33D tilt is controlled by the 7th channel on your controller. If you have the 4xAA ba ...

So I have installed the gimbal including anti-interference board and powered up. The gimbal responded by orienting itself, and the pitch control lever works, too, BUT it seems I cannot control pitch to point the camera straight down (so that the sensor is horizontal). It is a few degrees off.
Does this mean I now need to calibrate the pitch (tilt)? Or is there some other problem?
I do not know if I have 'the built lipo controller'. I have a DJ6. I have looked for "RC12" AND "Phantom assist" you mention, and found none by those exact names. Here are the closest I could find on www.dji.com/product/phantom-2:
"Phantom RC Assistant Software v1.2"
and
"Phantom 2 Assistant Software v3.8"

I've watched a lot of videos, but they seem to assume I know more than I do. I have learned a lot the past two days. Thank you for any advice or direction to appropriate sources.
PC

Northofthe49th Posted at 2016-6-18 23:32
Do you have a Mac computer?
All the software is available via the link johnwarr provided for a Mac ...

North,
Right, I have a Phantom 2.
And I have Macs. There was one item that was only available as exe, but it seems I don't need that. Now trying to determine which of these I have to update or install, if any. Sorting through a lot of information on line.
Grateful for all this help!
PC

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-6-18 23:12
Here is a video showing how to update with both the via the computer and the app. go to the 1 minut ...

Ken, are there tutorials for the Phantom 2? If so, are they online, or only in that app?

Don't worry about Ken, he is confused, showing you how to update a Phantom 4.
The MAC version of the PT2 Assistant can be downloaded HERE along with any other Phantom 2 stuff you might need.
I have the Vision + so I cant tell you for sure, but I believe the PT2 Assistant will give you the option to adjust the gimbal.
Good luck

pagecarr@gmail. Posted at 2016-6-19 03:57
Ken, are there tutorials for the Phantom 2? If so, are they online, or only in that app?

I am sorry about that, I was mixing a post with the P4.
Here is the download for the DJI Assistant for your P2.
http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-2/info#downloads

Northofthe49th Posted at 2016-6-18 23:23
Ken,
Unless I missed something here, pagecaarr' questions are on a P2!, not sure how this video rela ...

Yes, I corrected it. Sorry about that.

johnwarr@live.c Posted at 2016-6-19 04:38
Don't worry about Ken, he is confused, showing you how to update a Phantom 4.
The MAC version of the ...

Thanks, John!
YES, the P2 Assistant does have adjustments for the gimbal. I have just finished installing an updated Assistant, and made a few adjustments including the gimbal tilt control gain. Happy to say, I can now point the camera straight down (0).  Also updated to latest versions.
I referred to the manual pdf (which is now starting to make sense), and also found this video quite helpful:


Intend to study the advanced / naza controls in future.
Can't wait to fly with the camera installed.

So grateful to you and everyone in this thread, which has covered more than whether one can use the camera without FPV.

Thank you All!

edit: sorted

edit:sorted