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nickmedici
lvl.4

United States
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Who is at fault if my drone crashes into a plane but there is not airport within 5 miles and planes are flying below 400 feet? I'm at a lake and these water planes keep flying really low.
2016-6-25
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Airspace Explor
lvl.4
United States
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Can the manned aircraft pilots see your drone? The right thing to do will come from your answer to this.
2016-6-25
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gil
Captain
Flight distance : 1362900 ft
United States
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Do you mean seaplanes and amphibious aircraft?  Well, consider this, if your quad falls out of the sky there is little risk to life, if one of those "water planes" falls out of the sky there is HUGE risk to life -- you need to avoid any possible proximity to those planes!

I would also highly recommend you contact the nearest airport or air traffic control center to see if it is designated as any kind of a seaplane landing area.  Even if it isn't you should notify them beforehand when you are flying in the area so they can, in turn, alert any planes in the area to be aware of the potential risk below 400 feet.  You might even get your own DROTAM (Drone Notice To Airmen)

If you really want to be responsible you can look up and get familiar with the the Aeronautical Charts for your area at https://skyvector.com/  
As an example, Ft. Campbell, Kentucky is 60 miles from where I own a house close to Kentucky Lake.  It never occured to me that if I were to hop in my 4 wheeler and drive down to the nearest point with my Phantom I could potentially fly into the CAMPBELL 2 MOA (Military Operations Area)
Sectional DROTAMs.jpg
2016-6-25
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labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
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Planes aren't automatically limited to above 500 feet and you can expect to see them lower.
It's up to you to keep out of their way.

Here are the FAA rules regarding minimum safe altitudes for planes.
Note C & D
§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—
(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA
2016-6-25
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leonardk12.comc
lvl.3
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If the lake is used by the airplanes that can land on water, then would the lake be considered an airport? The same as a small remote grass or dirt landing area is called an airport. Then you would be responsible I suspect.  
2016-6-25
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rreindl
First Officer
Flight distance : 6491926 ft
United States
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Please what ever you do stay out of the way of any planes! Focus on what's really important, human life and our hobby. I sure would not want to read about you in the the paper!
2016-6-25
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nickmedici
lvl.4

United States
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So what I'm not suppose to fly my drone? There should be something or some sort of database that shows when and where a plane is gonna land of it's going to. How am I suppose to know if there's a plane?
2016-6-25
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EdM
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Flight distance : 1298967 ft
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nickmedici@bell Posted at 2016-6-26 07:37
So what I'm not suppose to fly my drone? There should be something or some sort of database that sho ...

You are supposed to remain in constant visual contact and control over your RC aircraft so you can avoid causing a problem for full scale aircraft.   
2016-6-25
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Michael M
First Officer
Flight distance : 1984898 ft
Canada
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The fact that you are asking a question like this is pretty scary, you are required to know where your done is at all times. No flying with earbuds in, listen and look for any aircraft. If you crash into them regardless, you are in huge trouble. Be careful, doesn't matter what anyone says, a phantom is not a toy.
2016-6-25
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Geebax
Captain
Australia
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nickmedici@bell Posted at 2016-6-26 09:37
So what I'm not suppose to fly my drone? There should be something or some sort of database that sho ...

Well, you could try searching for an app that tells you when a plane is going to fly close to your drone.... or you could do what everyone else does and that is NOT FLY anywhere near that area. Your replies sound like you think you have a god-given right to fly anywhere.
2016-6-25
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amelia.bolli01
lvl.2

United States
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Geebax Posted at 2016-6-26 07:58
Well, you could try searching for an app that tells you when a plane is going to fly close to your  ...

He is following all FAA regulations and restrictions so.........
2016-6-25
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amelia.bolli01
lvl.2

United States
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I would suggest contacting the airport or airspace manager around the area you fly in and tell them politely that you are worried about your drone hitting a plane because they fly low, even though you are flying below 400 feet and following all FAA regulations.
2016-6-25
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Geebax
Captain
Australia
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amelia.bolli01 Posted at 2016-6-26 15:26
I would suggest contacting the airport or airspace manager around the area you fly in and tell them  ...

Pardon, but it does not matter, he has to get out of the way of the full sized aircraft. They have right of passage over the area.
2016-6-25
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RedHotPoker
Captain
Flight distance : 165105 ft
Canada
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Let's just play tag with an airliner? Hahaha
Some people simply don't belong in our hobby-sport, or the lifestyle...
They aren't prepared to understand, what serious consequences are...


RedHotPoker
2016-6-25
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VisionAir
lvl.4
Flight distance : 954665 ft
Australia
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I don't know what the USA requirements are but here in Australia I have not long ago received my Commercial  Remote Pilot Licence (RoPL) and part of the 6 day course was we also obtained our Aircraft radio licence so if we are in the vicinity of any airport Within 10 nautical Miles we can talk to all aircraft in the area and if need be we can talk to Air Traffic Control of the airport if it has a tower,  so maybe find out what the requirements are for obtaining a Aviation radio licence...just a thought.
2016-6-25
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VisionAir
lvl.4
Flight distance : 954665 ft
Australia
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-6-26 03:42
Planes aren't automatically limited to above 500 feet and you can expect to see them lower.
It's up  ...

Also Aircraft can legally go as low as necessary to avoid Inclement weather.
2016-6-26
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charlieb111
lvl.3
Flight distance : 67808 ft
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nickmedici@bell Posted at 2016-6-26 07:37
So what I'm not suppose to fly my drone? There should be something or some sort of database that sho ...

There should be a database that shows if a dumb ass owns a drone
2016-6-26
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Cetaman
Captain
Flight distance : 2271506 ft
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nickmedici@bell Posted at 2016-6-25 13:37
So what I'm not suppose to fly my drone? There should be something or some sort of database that sho ...

Aloha nick,

     This is from the new Part 107 rules.  You may need to figure this out.  There are many other applicable rules including how to fly in the vicinity of heliports and airports without control towers.  Each one is different.  The best advice is duck and get out of there never to return.  Find another site to fly.  It is a big country.  As an alternative, do your job as an operator and keep an eye out for manned aircraft and stay out of their way.
**********************************************
     § 107.43 Operation in the vicinity of airports.

No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in a manner that interferes with operations and traffic patterns at any airport, heliport, or seaplane base.
************************************************

Aloha and Drone On!
2016-6-26
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Cetaman
Captain
Flight distance : 2271506 ft
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United States
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amelia.bolli01 Posted at 2016-6-25 19:26
I would suggest contacting the airport or airspace manager around the area you fly in and tell them  ...

Aloha amelia,

§ 107.43 Operation in the vicinity of airports.

No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in a manner that interferes with operations and traffic patterns at any airport, heliport, or seaplane base.

     There are separate rules for airports with and without control towers, also heliports with and without control towers.  As of August 21st, sUAS and micro UAS operators will be in a whole new world.  Best to start reading now.

Aloha and Drone On!
2016-6-26
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rodger
Captain
Flight distance : 15812070 ft
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United States
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I believe the manned Aircraft has the right of way. Anyway, that makes sense to me.
Common sense should be supplied here my friend.

Here is my situation. I live outside of the 5 mile marker of two Airports. One being a very busy and large Commercial Airport. I have never seen a plane be it commercial or private lower than 2-3,000 feet.

The second Airport is a small commercial and Military Airport, again over the 5 mile marker. The Military uses Black Hawks and C 130 Hercs. The Black Hawks usually stay around the thousand foot or higher mark. The Hercs are a different story. They are usually low in height. Some times at tree top level practicing Radar Evasion. If they are up, I am down. That simple. Would my Phantom cause any harm to a C130? Really doubt it. Would a C130 harm my Phantom? I am sure you know the answer to that. If there were an incident and I was below the 400 foot ruling would I be in trouble? Most likely because the C130 is a manned Aircraft. Just imagine all of the negative reactions and publicity. "Drone Strikes Air Force C130"
Hope this answers your thought.
2016-6-26
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nigelw
First Officer
Flight distance : 518084 ft
United Kingdom
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Does it matter who's at fault if people die as a result?
2016-6-26
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Cessna172
Second Officer
United States
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The essential thing to this question is this......

MANNED "aircraft" ALWAYS have right of way vs UN-MANNED aircraft.

Any aircraft under maneuverable control that is not manned (has no humans onboard) MUST yield right of way to any maneuverable aircraft that has humans on board.  In addition, speaking strictly of manned aircraft, more maneuverable aircraft generally must yield to less maneuverable aircraft.   (Cessna vs occupied hot air Balloon for example)

So regardless of where the incident may occur, you are required to make sure your drone remains clear of any manned aircraft, under any circumstances.
An aircraft with people onboard "could" be below 400ft due to an in flight emergency for all you know.

This is probably the primary reason that you are required to maintain visual VLOS at ALL times.


2016-6-26
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185EZ
lvl.3
Flight distance : 3176 ft
United States
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Had 4 helicopters flying around for a boat poker run.
I didn't fly out very far since they would circle back for the next group
you can see one coming on the left of the screen and I turned to come back to shore
I wasn't very high
yes I suck with the video controls
2016-6-26
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j5255
lvl.4
Flight distance : 5291158 ft
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Canada
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185EZ Posted at 2016-6-26 16:34
Had 4 helicopters flying around for a boat poker run.
I didn't fly out very far since they would cir ...

Please, find a safer place to fly.
2016-6-27
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185EZ
lvl.3
Flight distance : 3176 ft
United States
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j5255@yahoo.com Posted at 2016-6-27 10:20
Please, find a safer place to fly.


lol, ok
maybe a cemetery
nobody will get hurt there
2016-6-27
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j5255
lvl.4
Flight distance : 5291158 ft
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Canada
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185EZ Posted at 2016-6-27 16:41
lol, ok
maybe a cemetery
nobody will get hurt there

I think you have reached the limits of my medication
2016-6-27
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soundbyte58
lvl.3
Flight distance : 300761 ft
Canada
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amelia.bolli01 Posted at 2016-6-25 22:26
I would suggest contacting the airport or airspace manager around the area you fly in and tell them  ...

I think you should maybe read the regs. Unmanned craft are required to give right of way to manned aircraft, it's that simple. If your drone is close to a plane it is your fault not theirs and it is your responsibility to maintain separation. There is no minimum altitude over open water. There is a separation distance that must be maintained from people, vessels, vehicles & structures. Think of it this way...If you have a 500' restraining order against somebody, they have to stay away from you. However, you don't have to stay away from them. If you move close to them it's their responsibility to move away.
2016-6-27
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amelia.bolli01
lvl.2

United States
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charlieb111@att Posted at 2016-6-26 16:41
There should be a database that shows if a dumb ass owns a drone

And you are that dumb ass owner.
2016-6-27
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soundbyte58
lvl.3
Flight distance : 300761 ft
Canada
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nickmedici@bell Posted at 2016-6-25 16:37
So what I'm not suppose to fly my drone? There should be something or some sort of database that sho ...

Excuse me, did I understand your question correctly? How are you supposed to know there is a plane? Sorry for the rhetorical questions but, ARE YOU DEAF?
2016-6-27
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Chris512
lvl.1

United States
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soundbyte58 Posted at 2016-6-28 06:04
I think you should maybe read the regs. Unmanned craft are required to give right of way to manned  ...

" There is no minimum altitude over open water. "

There is no minimum altitude for manned aircraft over sparsely populated areas either, which includes woodlands or farm fields.  I fly an AT-802, with all 1,300 horses online, at anywhere from 8 feet to 500 feet AGL all day when I go to work.  If I ever suck somebody's DJI Phantom into the air intake on my PT-6A that drone owner's carcass will hung out to dry.
2016-6-27
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soundbyte58
lvl.3
Flight distance : 300761 ft
Canada
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Chris512 Posted at 2016-6-27 16:02
" There is no minimum altitude over open water. "

There is no minimum altitude for manned aircraf ...

Point taken, I didn't mention  sparsely populated areas because the OPs discussion was concerning seaplanes over a lake. That being said, we both know there's no cure for "stupid" and anybody suffering from this common condition should pick a hobby that doesn't  require conscious thought.
2016-6-27
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Chris512
lvl.1

United States
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soundbyte58 Posted at 2016-6-28 07:29
Point taken, I didn't mention  sparsely populated areas because the OPs discussion was concerning  ...

What happened is that that the proliferation of relatively inexpensive turn-key RC aircraft, that are not toys, put them into the hands of the masses, many of whom should not be allowed anywhere near anything that flies.  Get enough irresponsible people flying drones and the hobby will end up regulated to the level of GA aircraft where you won't be able to fly one even for enjoyment without a license and BFR.  And can't even change a prop unless it's signed off by a licensed A&P and the prop has a FAA STC that says it can be used on that aircraft.  And then the ones that will piss and moan the loudest will be the ones that caused the problem in the first place.
2016-6-27
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soundbyte58
lvl.3
Flight distance : 300761 ft
Canada
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Chris512 Posted at 2016-6-27 20:01
What happened is that that the proliferation of relatively inexpensive turn-key RC aircraft, that  ...

Absolutely! Kids that aren't old enough to drive are getting them from their parents and flying without any supervision. As far as I'm concerned, deliberately flying a drone close to an operating aircraft is no different than dropping rocks from an overpass. Eventually someone is going to die.
2016-6-27
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Cetaman
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Flight distance : 2271506 ft
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Chris512 Posted at 2016-6-27 13:02
" There is no minimum altitude over open water. "

There is no minimum altitude for manned aircraf ...

Aloha Chris,

     Do they call you shredder?  Dude, that is one mean ass machine you fly.  I guess you fly drones for relaxation, kind of to get the white out of your knuckles after you pry your hands off the stick.  So, how fast does that puppy fly at 8 feet AGL?  I am having a heart attack just thinking about it!

Aloha and Drone On!
2016-6-27
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Chris512
lvl.1

United States
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Cetaman Posted at 2016-6-28 02:26
Aloha Chris,

     Do they call you shredder?  Dude, that is one mean ass machine you fly.  I gues ...

Application speed is 120 kts.  And yes, the AT-series is a huge step forward from the old Cessna AgWagons and Ag Cats we used to fly in the business.  Most of us in the agricultural aerial application business, myself included, are retired military jet fighter jocks.  It seems to be where a lot of us gravitate to after we get out of the service.  We use the drones these days to do pre-flight aerial surveys to enhance the safety of the application flights.  We are forced to do things like fly under powerlines with the application aircraft.  Using the drone to map out the obstacles for the flight has reduced accidents and bent aircraft substantially.  And reduced costs, as it's cheaper to fly a drone than it is a Skylane for pre-scouting.
2016-6-28
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Chris512
lvl.1

United States
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soundbyte58 Posted at 2016-6-28 11:49
Absolutely! Kids that aren't old enough to drive are getting them from their parents and flying wi ...

I don't think that their parents really know much better either.  The problem, as I see it, is not so much stupidity, but education and training.  The National Air Space was traditionally only flown by pilots with extensive training and licensing.  The proliferation of turn-key RC aircraft has put pilots in control of aircraft capable of long distance, high altitude flight, without the proper training and knowledge.  I hope this topic has taught at least a couple pilots that just because you can fly a RC aircraft below 400 feet doesn't mean you are free to do anything you want.  You are sharing that airspace with full-sized manned aircraft.  And unless you fly responsibly, you will lose your privilege to fly without a license and training, anywhere but indoors.

At the present, it's up to the RC industry and pilots to do the education.  I don't see that calling someone stupid really helps much, because they may not be stupid and are simply looking at their new drone as a toy and want to have fun with it.  They didn't bother to educate themselves prior to flying it.  If it gets to the point where government has to do the education and associated licensing due to some who will break the rules even if they know better, it won't be good for the hobby or the RC industry.  At the present, just be aware that you face federal criminal charges if you interfere with a full-sized manned aircraft with your RC drone.  And the FAA, traditionally, is not an agency that tends to look the other way.  All it takes is one report from a licensed GA pilot that somebody is doing something illegal or dangerous with a RC aircraft, and the pilot of the RC can be tracked (guess why they got registration numbers on any RC aircraft over 0.55 lbs now?) and you will find out that dealing with any Federal enforcement agency is a less than pleasant experience.
2016-6-28
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soundbyte58
lvl.3
Flight distance : 300761 ft
Canada
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Chris512 Posted at 2016-6-28 10:47
I don't think that their parents really know much better either.  The problem, as I see it, is not ...

I agree with you, there is a lot that needs to be learned, and there is a lot that should be plain old fashioned common sense. Hence, my comment about stupidity. It was a figure of speech, not be taken literally. I don't think you'd really be hanging a ten year old's carcass out to dry.
2016-6-28
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Westside Osprey
lvl.4
Flight distance : 95915 ft
United States
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As stated earlier. It is a good idea to study sectional charts of the area you plan to fly in.

Here is a great place to find them online for Free: https://skyvector.com

It shows airports MOA's (military operational areas) often fast A10's 100' AGL where I live, it is on the Chart below, Yankee One MOA.
The key is know where you are and always keep your MR in sight fairly close, so you can get out of the way of any aircraft. There may be a Crop Duster or a SAR aircraft that suddeny appears in unpopulated areas and Medevac helis fly and land pretty much everywhere. So keep your MR close and listen for any aircraft at all times. And of course never fly above 400' or in a place you cant just dive the MR out of the way just in case...

And bear in mind that even lakes w/o official seaplane base status often have aircraft land and T/O or practice T&Gs. I also often fly my Cardinal 500' out from the beach well below 500', as do a lot of other GA pilots, so be careful along the coasts as well.
Screen Shot 2016-06-28 at 15.43.19.jpg
2016-6-28
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malvern
Second Officer
United Kingdom
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Step 1:  Arrives at lake to fly phantom.

Step 2:  Observes manned aircraft activity flying low.

Step 3:  Go home or find another lake with no aircraft's flying low.

It really is that simple.

Public safety first
Your safety next.
Then the Phantoms comes last.


So if you are flying your phantom, and a manned aircraft approaches, and you have but seconds to react, what do you do ?

Do you know how to kill the bird dead in the sky ?


2016-6-28
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Cetaman
Captain
Flight distance : 2271506 ft
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Chris512 Posted at 2016-6-28 04:40
Application speed is 120 kts.  And yes, the AT-series is a huge step forward from the old Cessna A ...

Aloha Chris,

    Sounds like you have the best of both worlds.  So, threading the power line needle huh.  Wow!

Aloha and Drone On!
2016-6-29
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