I am concerned about the method of killing motors on a P3 after landing.  It is common knowlege that doing a CSC will cause the bird to tip over even though the bird is firmly planted on the ground.  Throttle all the way down and hold for 3 seconds is the only method that works - the CSC is of no use when landing but it is still documented in the manual.  I have witnessed events where the operator landed, did a CSC and the P3 tipped over causing a motor to squeal and burn up.  This does not make sense since the CSC should immediately shut down ALL motors.  In several documented cases, one motor stayed powered up until the battery was turned off (dangerous) while all the other motors were stopped.  What is going on here?  I have a cheap 150 quad that includes a motor kill switch on the RC transmitter and when I land I can safely stop ALL motors immediately with no tendency to tip over.

This situation is an indication that there is no SAFE way to shut down all motors immediately in an emergency.

Most experienced flyers would not do a CSC on the ground, they just use left stick down on landing. CSc is for emergency stop when in the air. And that is despite what the manual says.

It's pretty unusual for CSC to not shut down all motors immediately.

CSC does shut down all four motors in an emergency. It is not meant for anything else, but I believe it does say only after landing in the manual.
Left stick all the way down is your answer to the thread header.

wmcvey Posted at 2016-8-24 09:20
CSC does shut down all four motors in an emergency. It is not meant for anything else, but I believe ...

One time I did an auto land on a flat surface. I had manually landed on the same surface numerous times. After touchdown it tipped over and started to squeal. I did a CSC and it shut down immediately. There was no damage to the motors. I have had at least 50 flights since and the coils have the same copper color as when it was new.

My point, aside from never performing an auto land again, is that the CSC worked as promised. I have had other drones that use the same CSC command and they also stop the motors immediately.  I wonder if stories about the CSC not working immediately were not by a panicked operator who did not bring both sticks to the right point and hold them there.

skipilot1 Posted at 2016-8-24 11:58
One time I did an auto land on a flat surface. I had manually landed on the same surface numerous  ...

'I wonder if stories about the CSC not working immediately were not by a panicked operator who did not bring both sticks to the right point and hold them there.'

I believe there is enough anecdotal evidence to believe that CSC may not work if the aircraft is upside down.

wmcvey Posted at 2016-8-24 09:20
CSC does shut down all four motors in an emergency. It is not meant for anything else, but I believe ...

3 seconds to shut down the motors does not answer my question of safety.  3 seconds is too long.

I'll have to agree with the OP.

So that everybody is on the same page, this is the exact text written under Flight Test > Takeoff and Landing Procedures (Phantom 3 Standard User Manual):

7. After landing, execute the CSC command or hold the throttle at its lowest position until the motors come to a stop. Do not release the control stick until the motors come to stop completely.

Any beginner who's done due diligence reading the manual could still end up damaging their Phantom 3.

IMO, the step above should be revised to NOT include the CSC procedure after performing a normal landing. Also further emphasize that stopping the motor using CSC should only be performed in an emergency.

BayouBill Posted at 2016-8-23 22:51
3 seconds to shut down the motors does not answer my question of safety.  3 seconds is too long.

This is the first line of your post. "I am concerned about the method of killing motors on a P3 after landing."
You might not like or agree with it, but this is how it's done. If it's a normal landing, which is what you were asking, how is 3 seconds too long. I've been doing it this way for some time and it's works everytime, with zero issues. And in the case of uneven ground, I do the same but hand catch it.

Hello BayouBill,I'd suggest you use CSC for emergency stop instead of landing.

DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-8-24 11:24
Hello BayouBill,I'd suggest you use CSC for emergency stop instead of landing.

Hey Paladin - can you help get the manual updated so the csc step is removed from landing? New pilots shouldn't be doing this, the manual needs to be updated. Help facilitate that change man

digdat0 Posted at 2016-8-24 11:31
Hey Paladin - can you help get the manual updated so the csc step is removed from landing? New pil ...

We do appreciate your advice and will pass the suggestion along to the appropriate team.

I would imagine that if one were to do a CSC on the ground, and the craft flipped over, it probably means that the right stick was moved before the left stick (although just slightly) and the craft was just responding to it.
That being said, don't do a CSC on the ground.

BayouBill Posted at 2016-8-24 12:51
3 seconds to shut down the motors does not answer my question of safety.  3 seconds is too long.

It's difficult to see what you are getting at here.
In your first post you say "This situation is an indication that there is no SAFE way to shut down all motors immediately in an emergency.
And now you are saying 3 seconds is too long.

If you want to shut down in an emergency, use CSC - it's instant
If you want to shut down normally after landing or catching, use left stick down for 3 seconds.
What's the problem?

The throttle-down command doesn't really take 3 seconds to respond. From my non-scientific estimation, it's more like 1 second, give or take a few 100msecs. I believe the manual states 3 seconds as a safety buffer to be sure the aircraft receive the command.

labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-8-24 14:46
It's difficult to see what you are getting at here.
In your first post you say "This situation is  ...

If the CSC were instant the bird would not tip over when applied after landing.  There are numerous threads documenting tip-over on CSC and screeching, smoking motor.  At a minimum the CSC step should be removed from the manual for the landing procedure.

Maybe I'm just stupid and the 30+ years of R/C modelling has taught me nothing.
But I can concur that having the CSC included in the landing section of the manual resulted in me trying this out as a newbie, tipping my bird several times before it donned on me I did not need to use that command when landing. The ONLY reason I was trying it was because it was in the manual in the landing section, which I figured was important to know. As we all know if the CSC is performed on the ground you better do the command 100% correct or your going to tip your bird! What are the odds of newbies doing this command 100% correctly while on the ground? I don't know but what I do know is that many people will attempt, because of its place in the manual and fail, tipping their bird over.

The other thing I noted is that when doing a CSC the props actually spin up before they shutdown. Why is this? And is this the reason people tip their bird over do a CSC only to find that one or two motors are still not shutdown? Ie A command is sent to the tipped bird to shutdown the motors but they need to spin up first before the command is successful, but two motors can't move so they keep trying to speed up before the power is killed?

In any case it doesn't really matter to me what DJI does with the manual, now that I know that CSC is for Emergiences ONLY in the air or on the ground.

However I fully believe that updating the manual will help reduce the amount of tip overs, which helps owners and DJI alike.

Thanks DJI for your consideration

BayouBill Posted at 2016-8-24 09:17
If the CSC were instant the bird would not tip over when applied after landing.  There are numerous ...

Yeah, it's instant, or close to it.  I've seen at least one thread where a pilot insisted that their aircraft "just fell out of the sky" when a revue of the flight log showed a CSC, even if only momentary.

wmichaels1 Posted at 2016-8-24 14:05
Yeah, it's instant, or close to it.  I've seen at least one thread where a pilot insisted that the ...

I had a recent incident with my P3P where I grazed a racing gate at about 3 or 4 feet up and it fell over on it's back and the squealing started because of the obstructed blades. I immediately executed a CSC command and it took what seemed like 2 or 3 seconds for it to stop. I was quite unnerved by the sound. Thankfully no noticeable damage was done except the separation of my camera/gimbal. I reattached it and everything works fine. From my experience it seemed as though the CSC was not executed instantly.

It's normal for the motors to spin up because there's a moment the sticks haven't quite reached the CSC position yet and the aircraft is just responding to the command for a sudden yaw, pitch and roll, simultaneously.
So the take-away here is to only use CSC in emergency situations or when the normal throttle-down position is not working (ie. Aircraft is still in the air and there's a legitimate need to shut it down). It's the last resort procedure to shutdown the motors remotely.

BayouBill Posted at 2016-8-25 00:17
If the CSC were instant the bird would not tip over when applied after landing.  There are numerous ...

If you pull the joysticks quickly into their corners, CSC is instant.
The Phantom can tip on CSC if you execute the CSC tentatively and give your Phantom a little movement in one direction or another just before the motor stops.

But this doesn't matter because you use CSC for emergency stopping of the rotating props - not for gentle landings for which you use the left stick down.

So I'll say it again ...
If you want to shut down in an emergency, use CSC - it's instant
If you want to shut down normally after landing or catching, use left stick down for 3 seconds.
What's the problem?

labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-8-24 17:32
If you pull the joysticks quickly into their corners, CSC is instant.
The Phantom can tip on CSC i ...

I agree with Labroides, it isn't that hard to understand. If you use the left stick only it woks like it is supposed too and just takes a sec or two at most. I also agree with others that I don't every really seeing myself using a CSC. That's just me. I don't understand the  real benefit to it.
I don't think if something went terribly wrong that my first thought would be to do that. I would hope that my first instinct would be to throttle straight up to avoid hitting something or straight down to the ground and not worry about the damage. Just my own opinions.

labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-8-24 23:32
If you pull the joysticks quickly into their corners, CSC is instant.
The Phantom can tip on CSC i ...

Before i purchased my p3 pro i spent hours and hours on forums/youtube etc researching all the commands/functions etc. The way i see it with the CSC is only to be performed as a last resort/emergency if there was risk to life/serious injury etc. I have never performed a CSC nor do i intend to,but if needs be i know what to do if that situation ever came. When landing manually i hold left stick down throttle until motors shut of which seems to be 1-2 seconds not had any issues,just make sure you land on a even flat surface.

One issue i did find quite often is that new/inexperienced owners were reporting "my phantom just dropped from the sky" actually carrying out a CSC whilst in the air without knowing how the CSC is performed by not reading user manuals/adequate research.

RicardoGray Posted at 2016-8-25 08:42
I agree with Labroides, it isn't that hard to understand. If you use the left stick only it woks l ...

"I don't think if something went terribly wrong that my first thought would be to do that. I would hope that my first instinct would be to throttle straight up to avoid hitting something or straight down to the ground and not worry about the damage."

On the forum everyone imagines mid-air emergency CSC, but in real use, that would be incredibly rare if it ever happens at all.
If you have enough control to CSC, you have enough control to stop, climb or turn and avoid the proverbial baby in the pram.
If you have no control, you will also have no CSC.
CSC is mostly for stopping the spinning props after a crash or if pets, people etc are getting too close to your landed or crashed Phantom.

@KM5RG - I would imagine that if one were to do a CSC on the ground, and the craft flipped over, it probably means that the right stick was moved before the left stick (although just slightly) and the craft was just responding to it.

You have identified the reason for the flip.  Moving right stick to extreme roll and back pitch on the way to CSC probably causes the flip.  That's why it does not belong with the landing procedure.  Thats also probably the reason the motors momentarily speed up.

BayouBill Posted at 2016-8-24 18:20
@KM5RG - I would imagine that if one were to do a CSC on the ground, and the craft flipped over, it  ...

Yeah that , and the fact that until the sticks are in the CSC position, the aircraft will attempt to do what the stick is commanding it to. It is the time between the movement of the stick until it reaches the CSC position. (You would not want the craft to anticipate a CSC before you actually reached it would you?)   The faster you move the stick, the less chance of flipping it. But just don't do a CSC.

DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-8-24 13:24
Hello BayouBill,I'd suggest you use CSC for emergency stop instead of landing.

Then why is it in the manual as a method to shut down motors upon landing?

I have a brand new P3P in for warranty repair at DJI Australia which has been rejected because of incorrect control stick movements on landing. I have disputed this because I followed the manual to the letter.

My P3P tipped over and cooked a motor while performing a CSC after landing. See youtube video of the incident here -

I'm awaiting word back from DJI about my dispute...

tjashbrooke@gma Posted at 2016-8-25 07:57
Then why is it in the manual as a method to shut down motors upon landing?

I have a brand new P3P  ...

Sorry for your issue,
1.The ground surface is not perfectly flat.
2.Your drone didn't land completely but you already applied CSC which leads to flip.
3.Once landed, we recommended to pull your throttle stick all the way down to stop the motors.

tjashbrooke@gma Posted at 2016-8-25 07:57
Then why is it in the manual as a method to shut down motors upon landing?

I have a brand new P3P  ...

It seems you didn't even know how to shut it down with the battery.I suggest you read and study more before you fly again.

KM5RG-Robert Posted at 2016-8-25 12:55
It seems you didn't even know how to shut it down with the battery.I suggest you read and study mor ...

I am completely aware of how to shut it down with the battery. It didn't respond at all. I ended up pulling the battery out to power it down.

DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-8-25 12:06
Sorry for your issue,
1.The ground surface is not perfectly flat.
2.Your drone didn't land compl ...

1. Yes, the ground is perfectly flat without getting a spirit level out to check it.
2. Yes the drone did touch down before I applied CSC as you can see.
3. In the manual, Method 1 on Page 46 it says to push the throttle down, then apply CSC. It does not say push throttle all the way down.

tjashbrooke@gma Posted at 2016-8-25 13:11
1. Yes, the ground is perfectly flat without getting a spirit level out to check it.
2. Yes the dro ...

Check your manual again
It says to either:
Hold the left stick down for 3 seconds after landing
or
Use CSC

And using CSC isn't a good idea as it sometimes causes the Phantom to tip.

tjashbrooke@gma Posted at 2016-8-25 13:07
I am completely aware of how to shut it down with the battery. It didn't respond at all. I ended u ...

You might be aware of how to shut down the battery, but in your own video, you were busy shooting the cooked motor while the battery was still in the aircraft and it was still switched on.

labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-8-25 15:41
Check your manual again
It says to either:
Hold the left stick down for 3 seconds after landing

p46 of the Manual.

Method 1. CSC
Method 2. Hold stick down for three seconds.

It didn't say anything about CSC not being a good idea?

tjashbrooke@gma Posted at 2016-8-25 16:02
p46 of the Manual.

Method 1. CSC

Unfortunately the manual has some poorly written parts and could definitely be better
You get a lot of good information from the collective wisdom of hundreds of experienced flyers too.

labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-8-25 16:15
Unfortunately the manual has some poorly written parts and could definitely be better
You get a lo ...

I'm just finding out about the manual.
I probably would have been better off not reading it and visiting forums instead!

tjashbrooke@gma Posted at 2016-8-25 16:20
I'm just finding out about the manual.
I probably would have been better off not reading it and vi ...

For the most part, the manual is good, but it has the odd bit of not-so-good advice in it. As Labroides says, this forum is probably the best place to learn.

Geebax Posted at 2016-8-25 02:34
For the most part, the manual is good, but it has the odd bit of not-so-good advice in it. As Labr ...

You have to feel for this guy a little bit. The actual time the phantom was flipped over is somewhat short in my opinion. That motor cooked pretty quick. And the comment about being flat.........wasn't a exactly a concrete pad but I have landed on ground that was not as flat as this. Yes, his controls were maybe not correct because it looks like it jumps up right after it touches the ground and instead of him pulling back on the left stick to kill the motors he must have tried the CSC which cause the flip. As far as him spending too much time with the video, it looks like it must have been set up on a tripod or someone else was filming. Anyway, I do think the manual could use some changing. I don't think they should even talk about the CSC. Honestly, I wonder if anyone out there actually had to do this. Just wondering.

It does look like he was trying to attempt to power down the battery though. Why would it have not turned off. I guess if those blades were turning, I wouldn't be too quick in trying to take the battery out of it either. I guess in the bigger picture, the motors are relatively cheap, as long as the motherboard or some other components didn't get overloaded. Even if DJI doesn't warranty it, it shouldn't take much to repair it.

Sheesh, so many lengthy threads are filled with posts trying to affix blame or prove who is right or just a seemingly endless stream of urine competitions.  Consider this as an observation rather than a judgement; in my experience the only useful thing I have ever taken away from any untoward event is my Dad's voice echoing in my head: "Well, did you learn anything?"

Which I have since turned into a mantra that is oft repeated when faced with one of life's little oops! -- It's only a bad experience if you didn't learn anything.

tjashbrooke@gma Posted at 2016-8-24 23:07
I am completely aware of how to shut it down with the battery. It didn't respond at all. I ended u ...

Looks to me as though you might have powered down that battery only after the motor burned up, was thinking the whole time you were holding the bird you were trying to power it down. But in the end it seems you were just holding it and looking at it and not doing anything. And if anyone looks at the manual, it does NOT say to just do a CSC after landing. It says to hold the left stick down first, then move into a CSC if wanted. Or just wait the 3 seconds for motors to stop.