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M600 + RoninMX vibration absorber is too weak
4045 15 2016-9-24
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andrey
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Russia
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Hi everyone,For now we have the standard setup of M600 with RoninMX with BMPC4K connected via the SRW, and we are not happy with that system performance...
It seems everything is okay with the flying platform, but not okay with the gimbal stabilisation.
The first I found is - default camera profile settings for the ronin motors is absolutely unusable, as the autotune suggestions too, all of the settings should be adjusted manually.
The best settings setup I found for my camera setup is highest stiffness on all axes, until it starts to vibrate, with the strength parameter about 10-15 and outfilter/control set to 0.
In that case I almost totally eliminated high frequency vibration on motors, but I still have problems with shaking footage because of stock vibration dampers, I figured out it is too weak.
During the flight, when M600 starts to move or braking it`s tilting, so we have the ronin mounted below it with a heavy camera equiped, this makes a big lever pushing onto shock absorbers with angular force, not only up and down. After that, the gimbal reaches the limits of its movement, hitting one side of damper, then goes back ang hitting another end, this movement repeats several times, then stops. (like a big pendulum) At this moment we have serious g-force, which overrides the stiffness of the motors, even the camera is balanced perfectly. (because of its shape) The result is the image is shacking sideways.
We tried to modify stock rubber/spring dampeners with plastic, 3d-printed rings, for pre-load spings and make them harder. It helps, but not finally, it fixed only forward-backward movement of damping frame, but if you will try to fly sideways you will still have that hard hammering of the gimbal (slightly less, but still visible). Because it is a rectangular damping frame instead of square.
I'm afraid to imagine what I should to do with the heavy camera setup like RED with big lens and focus (+additional battery)...
Maybe should I try to remove the damper plate to mount the gimbal directly to the M600?
Do anyone have the same problems with that setup?
Any suggestions?
2016-9-24
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evanek
lvl.1
Flight distance : 289488 ft

Czechia
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Hi, I have the same setup M600 with Ronin - MX and BMPC 4k and I have as well the same problem with shaking image!

We are also constantly  loosing video signal from copter - LB2 to ground camera Slave controller app DJI GO).  Now, we have to feed the video signal from Master controller to external monitor with HDMI cable. And another thing is that the camera movement is not smooth enough for perfect cinema shot.  Waiting for LB2 upgrade. :-(

Official DJI seller in my country will check the system next week. I hope this will help....
2016-10-6
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andrey
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Russia
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evanek@evanek.c Posted at 2016-10-6 23:56
Hi, I have the same setup M600 with Ronin - MX and BMPC 4k and I have as well the same problem with  ...

Hi Evanek,
You are not alone with this unstable video problem on secondary remote, I can`t totally understand the working scheme if you are using two remotes. For example, I can get video feed on secondary remote only after several controller`s on/off cycles. Then, after you got the video feed finally, it is still unstable, with picture freezes and grey bars, but the situation with hdmi monitor attached to the secondary controller is better than iphone/ipad usind as a monitor.
Also (definitely) there is some kind of dependency of the first and secondary controller, because you can see the blinking video effect on first controller, exactly before you get the video stream on secondary remote. That means - secondary controller is not just getting the same feed as the pilot`s controlller.

About the gimbal, after some tests, experiments with settings on gimbal and drone, we got much better stability results. You need to make drone accelerating and braking as smooth as possible(with expo and braking settings). Also set gimbal`s settings to maximum stiffness, before you get oscillations, then do the test flight with various scenarios( fly up/down/sideways). Download footage to laptop and identify the axis of vibrations and the reason. If you have periodical high-frequency vibration in horizontal axis, you should lower the pan stiffness/strength (3-5-7 points should be enough). If you see random big shakes on any axis - it is too low stiffness setting of the motor and it looses the grip. Raise the stiffness and check the balance in this axis - it should be perfect...unfortunately... The ronin is working very close to it`s motors power possibilities and every little balance error will be a kilograms of force when drone is accelerating.
2016-10-7
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andrey
lvl.2

Russia
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UPD
All this results we achieved with modified ronin-mx dampeners, with pre-loaded springs. But I still think to change the stock damper plate to another one. It should be square or round and much harder. Not rectangular and soft as stock plate.

2016-10-7
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markboyt
lvl.2
Flight distance : 4035026 ft
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United Kingdom
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Hi, Did this new plate help? We are having problems also.
2016-10-12
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andrey
lvl.2

Russia
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This one is from Gryphon Dymanics, we are waiting for delivery... I hope it will work as should
http://gryphondynamics.co.kr/pro ... ounts/damper-plates
Or this one, round shape may help
http://www.kopterworx.com/shop/d ... ji-s1000-frame.html
2016-10-13
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andrey
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Russia
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markboyt@btconn Posted at 2016-10-13 02:23
Hi, Did this new plate help? We are having problems also.

I suggest you to try our first improvement with plastic rings, to pre load spring in standard shock absorbers.
Just 3d print, or make simple rings, to install it from below the springs. We made that rings with height of a half spring`s height. Maybe this upgrade will solve the problems for you, it works near-to-fine for our camera setup.
2016-10-13
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haiyaliosman
lvl.1
Turkey
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We also, how do we solve the vibration and wobble right and left.
2016-10-14
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allstar
lvl.1

Taiwan
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I have the same problem:
http://forum.dji.com/thread-61467-1-1.html
2016-10-14
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evanek
lvl.1
Flight distance : 289488 ft

Czechia
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andrey@nicolaef Posted at 2016-10-7 16:21
Hi Evanek,
You are not alone with this unstable video problem on secondary remote, I can`t totall ...

Hi Andrey,
at this moment we are solving unstable video problem by feeding the external HDMI monitor from our pilot (Master) controller by a long HDMI cable. The situation is far from perfect but much better then the feed for the monitor form secondary (Slave) controller.  Both controllers get video signal from aircraft but pilot controller (Master) definitely receives much better video signal!

Speaking of camera vibration you are absolutely right about the stiffness. Thank for advice!  I have raised stiffness for title axis and vertical vibration disappeared. Afters our last shooting I have just got message form client postproduction stuff saying that the video is without vibration and needs no stabilization correction. Camera balancing and  Ronin-MX  settings is very critical!  On DJI GO app I use for gimbal Custom1 settings with my corrections for Blackmagic  Cinema Production Camera 4k.

You know. It was easy. In the past there was always one gimbal just for one camera. No settings at all. Now we have universal gimbal for more cameras and we have to solve gimbal settings for the camera we use.

My M600 system is at our official DJI dealer and service for upgrading and checking. As soon as I get the aircraft back I will let you know the results…
2016-10-15
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andrey
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Russia
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haiyaliosman@ho Posted at 2016-10-15 08:24
We also, how do we solve the vibration and wobble right and left.

Side to side vibrations of pan axis is much more mysterious, it`s hard to catch this effect. On the ground it seems to be okay if you try to tilt the ronin with the aircraft or without - no oscillations. This type of wobbling is visible in the air only...
Also I discovered a good way to check overpowered motor settings, you can hit (easily) ends of the axes with something like rubberised handle of screwdriver. This way you can check high frequency vibrations.
2016-10-17
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andrey
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Russia
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evanek@evanek.c Posted at 2016-10-16 03:21
Hi Andrey,
at this moment we are solving unstable video problem by feeding the external HDMI moni ...

Hi, I`m really happy that you had a good footage without vibrations, congrats!
That means we are going to the right way with our experiments, its great!
I think our experience and practice can help to other people much more that official dji support
I will definitely try to get the camera feed from pilots rc, thank you, great advice.

Yes, balancing and motor settings are critical now with ronin... and they are individual for every new camera setup...

It`s very interesting what the official dealer will recommend for your setup, will you share the settings and versions of software after this?
2016-10-17
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evanek
lvl.1
Flight distance : 289488 ft

Czechia
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andrey@nicolaef Posted at 2016-10-17 11:56
Hi, I`m really happy that you had a good footage without vibrations, congrats!
That means we are  ...

Hi,
M600 is back from the service.

Here are firmware versions:
DJO GO - Version 3.0.1
Aircraft - Version 1.00.43
Remote Controllers - Version 1.1.70LB2 Air - 1.1.40
Ronin MX GCU - Version 1.2
Ronin MX System - Version 2.1

The system starts immediately and on both controllers I can see video from the camera from the very beginning. No repeating on / off procedure!
Everything seems to be working fine. The camera responds to controller very fast and movements are smooth!  You can slowly pan without any problems.

And this is important for video signal improvement.
Go to iPad (iPhone) open Settings / General / Language - Regions.  And here choose region USA.  
Start aircraft and open DJI GO app at HD  page. Now you can switch Cannel Mode from Auto to Custom (remember, there must be USA region mode on iPad, iPhone).
Select good channel with low noise and move Transmission Quality down from 10 MBps to 4 MBps.  The same automatically happens to secondary (cameraman) controller.

It works great. We can fly as far as we need and we still have good video signal on both controllers.  To be honest, as you downgrade video data transmission to 4MBps you can see it on image quality on iPad screen from time to time. But, you are not loosing video signal any more.

I hope this will help.


2016-10-24
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i.am.ivan.stan
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Flight distance : 345302 ft
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United Arab Emirates
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hey guys

i have this problem too

first, i made sure ronin mx is not the cause, by putting it into tough test on ground, it had no shakes in video

next, i went to check the vibration dampers, and yes these seem to be soft

i opened all 4 and put a piece of rubber inside, making them more rigid

going for a test now, lets see what happens



2018-1-20
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i.am.ivan.stan
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Flight distance : 345302 ft
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United Arab Emirates
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2018-1-22
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VRpilot
lvl.3
Flight distance : 1544665 ft
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Spain
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Hi
Where I can find a link to purchase the official vibration Damping Kit?
I´m not using a Ronin MX, but I have installed a Dampezen for my gimbal & 360 cameras, and I need to minimize vibrations from main frame.
Actually I only need just those 4 vibration dampers, not bars and not Quick clamp.
Must be a link to purchase those dampers, they will not work forever and will need replacement, I guess.
If anybody wants to sell those, let me know ;-)
Thanks!
2018-1-25
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