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Prop Loss in Flight, not covered under warranty?
4659 33 2016-10-11
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acoloradohunter
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Greetings!
  
  
I was wondering if anyone has any experience with DJI and warranty issues with a loss of a propeller in flight?
  
  
I recently lost a prop shortly after take off, obviously causing the bird to crash.  Hit on concrete at 23 MPH according to flight logs.  The drone was properly preflighted, GPS lock, compass calibrations, and I know the props were tightened! I am very anal about my preflight and double check my props every time.   I even do the 10-20 seconds spin up on the ground.  Took the drone off and got to 20 feet and then one of the props flew off and went straight up, naturally the drone tumbled and crashed.  I recovered the lost prop expecting to find a cracked hub, or stripped threads, but nothing.  The prop was in perfect condition.
  
  
The drone is a Phantom 3 4k that is two months old and this was its 61st flight. It has never been crashed before. I filled out the RMA in great detail, synced my flight logs, noting the exact crash flight.  You see all the data showing the drone going up and then come crashing straight down, and sent the drone in to DJI.  Including the prop that flew off.
  
  
DJI immediately denied the warranty claim and stated only this in their reason.
  
  
   
Non-warranty.   Aircraft has impact damages caused by customer
   
   
   
  
  
This was very frustrating!  The did not even acknowledge the prop loss or explain why it occurred.  It seemed they didn't even review my flight logs or read the RMA I filled out in detail. I called and spoke with the obvious out-sourced customer service rep and started a "dispute process."  I am still waiting to hear back from them.  
  
  
Anyone have any experience dealing with this same issue?  I have seen several videos of phantom 3s losing props in flight and seems to be a equipment issue.  
  
  
Also does anyone have any working links to software to de-encrypt DJI flight data logs?  all the ones I have found won’t work .  Than
  




2016-10-11
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mfojas430
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Flight distance : 23835 ft
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If a prop flew off, then something had to be wrong. Maybe the hub was worn out or something that would cause the "self-tightening" feature of the motors/props not to function. Most people here recommend using healthydrones.com. I haven't personally used it tho.
2016-10-11
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acoloradohunter
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mfojas430@insit Posted at 2016-10-11 10:57
If a prop flew off, then something had to be wrong. Maybe the hub was worn out or something that wou ...

Thanks, I will check them out.
2016-10-11
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wmichaels1
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mfojas430@insit Posted at 2016-10-11 11:57
If a prop flew off, then something had to be wrong. Maybe the hub was worn out or something that wou ...

A prop flew off of my first P3S.  I have no doubt it was totally my fault.  I did not get the prop on correctly, and learned a (thankfully not too expensive) lesson about pre-flight checks.  Why should I expect DJI to cover it?
2016-10-11
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djordan2
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I also lost a prop on my P3S.  I know it was my fault for not snugging them down before flight.  I was testing the Critical Battery Warning feature to see what it would do when in that state. I forced it to hover 1 foot off the soft ground until the battery went completely dead.  When it did, the drone just dropped to the ground and fell on its side.  One prop flew off.  The was absolutely no damage.  I put the prop back on and tightened all of them again.  Then flew for the rest of the day.
2016-10-11
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billwish76
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I'm not going to dispute your PreFlight check,  but mention what I believe will happen with non tightened props. when taking off and you hit it hard and fly up fast and your propellers aren't tight enough, when you let go to a hover and the motor slow down the propellers are still moving the same speed meaning they will spin off
2016-10-11
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Phantomski
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I had a prop where the thread went bad, but i found it while putting on the prop and replaced...
Do u have that prop recovered?
There's a chance DJI can do something, but how you gonna prove u tighten it well? Even though they should self tighten....
Still, worth a try to submit a support case....
2016-10-11
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acoloradohunter
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Phantomski Posted at 2016-10-11 14:25
I had a prop where the thread went bad, but i found it while putting on the prop and replaced...
Do  ...

I do have the prop, took a while to find it...

No signs of damage to the threads at all.  That is the thing I have to prove I tightened it and even so they advertise they are self tightening... but I know I tightened it! I put each one on, and then go back and check each one in circlular fashion. Just like torquing lugs on a wheel.

I want to know how it came off.
2016-10-11
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acoloradohunter
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billwish76 Posted at 2016-10-11 14:14
I'm not going to dispute your PreFlight check,  but mention what I believe will happen with non tigh ...

That is a thought that could explain how a prop could rotate of a self tightening post.
2016-10-11
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Phantomski
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does not hurt to open a case.. just be prepared that it may not go your way...  and once u have it, u can sure see if the dji guys (and ladies) here can help to escalate... sometimes they managed to help significantly.. there's a very good chance u will be asked to send in both, the drone and the prop.. possibly all 4... so just be aware... at least u r in the US, we have it really good compared to other regions, when it comes to shipping speed, no extra cost crossing borders and so on.. so best of luck - hope this works out in your favor... How long have u had you drone, and are these the original props? Not some 3rd party? That would be a problem.
2016-10-11
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DJI Mindy
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Sorry for the frustration.
Could you please provide me with your case number?
I'll help to look into you case.
2016-10-11
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wmcvey
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acoloradohunter Posted at 2016-10-11 19:27
That is a thought that could explain how a prop could rotate of a self tightening post.

Two things I would say, first I personally don't think the logs are going to help much in the case of a prop coming off. It crashed was caused by a hardware issue. Second, again just my personal view. Props just don't come off because the drone did something wrong. So I would say one of them was not on tight enough, self tightening or not. That's just a backup, it's not going to save the day if it's too loose to begin with.
2016-10-11
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acoloradohunter
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2016-10-11 19:22
Sorry for the frustration.
Could you please provide me with your case number?
I'll help to look into ...

Hi Mindy!

That would be excellent! Thank you for the help.

Here it is.

CAS-273229-Q8Y1M8
2016-10-12
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DJI Mindy
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acoloradohunter Posted at 2016-10-13 05:33
Hi Mindy!

That would be excellent! Thank you for the help.

Thanks for your feedback.
I'll help to escalate it for you.
2016-10-12
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acoloradohunter
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2016-10-13 11:02
Thanks for your feedback.
I'll help to escalate it for you.

Thank you Mindy,  I really appreciate it.
2016-10-12
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OrlyP
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"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."


Maybe you've picked up somebody else's prop?

Seriously, good luck with your case. I hope DJI covers the repair.
2016-10-12
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Phantomski
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Please keep us posted, either way, we can all learn from this, and knowing how DJI has handled it, may be of value to some of us in the future. Good luck!
2016-10-13
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acoloradohunter
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Phantomski Posted at 2016-10-13 08:52
Please keep us posted, either way, we can all learn from this, and knowing how DJI has handled it, m ...

So here is the verdict.

After several phone calls and incident reviews, DJI refuses to cover the claim.  I will have to pay the full cost of the drone repair.  DJI has a great drone, but my next purchase will not be one of their products based on thier customer service.  I do have a accidental drop insurance policy on the drone who might help cover it we will see.

They fully admit the prop came off and was the cause of the crash.  They state that prop was loose and this caused it to come off.  Here is my take, I know it was tightened. Even if it was loose, it is direct false advertising to state the props are,"self tightening."  They are clearly not according directly to DJI  If you publicly make that claim and then fail to back it up you have falsely advertised.  My only recourse is to publicly show their lack of support and possibly look a legal claim for false advertising.

I do a comprehensive pre-flight each time, I guess I will have to film it from now on. I would suggest you all do too. The preflight on this flight was by the book, and included a spin up. #DJIcustomerservicefail

See Below correspondence on final verdict.  

"Dear &&^(

The 3rd analysis of the flight was performed and completed.

Based on the findings, the result is similar to the previous conclusion of the review.

It was also determined that due to the fact that the aircraft was air born for approximately only 2 seconds, this is indicative of a loose propeller.

Normally any issues that are discovered to be defective, the unit is able to at least hover before an issue with the aircraft becomes apparent.

This would be the final result of the case, if you would like for the unit to be repaired, the invoice would need to be completed, or we can always re-ship your unit un-repaired if also needed.

Thank you again for your continued patience and understanding in this matter.

Best Regards,"




2016-10-13
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Phantomski
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Yes, looks like u got failed here...  sorry to hear!
if they could determine the prop be faulty, but i guess they did not. It is a recurring theme, where people are not happy with the "verdict" - and I am sure the fault is distributed, where sometimes it's a failure of DJI and sometimes of the user..  
The "self tightening" is true in my opinion, as in it will not self lose, due to the thread being inverted as to the rotation direction.. does it ever say, it will not come undone if not tighten? Not really..  (yes, i know u r sure u tighten it) They even provide a "tool" for tightening the props.. I always tighten it by hand, as I think with the tool it's too easy to overdo it.....
Still it sucks that u did not get the warranty, even though you are certain you tighten it.. hope this does not happen to many people..  DJI product is great, but customer service, spotty at best...   If you hope to find a better product with better support.. not sure if it exists quite yet.. not in that price range.
You mention u have insurance? what kind? I am thinking more and more about it - amFam does not have anything that drops the $1k dedictable, but as my drone gets older, this is becoming a bit more of a priority for me...
Good luck! Hope u get the insurance claim at least and will endup with something you enjoy!
2016-10-13
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wmcvey
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Oh NO, not another "false advertising" thread. Go back and look at my post #12. Here's part of it "Props just don't come off because the drone did something wrong. So I would say one of them was not on tight enough, self tightening or not. That's just a backup, it's not going to save the day if it's too loose to begin with." There's only one way a prop comes off in flight. What is it with all these "fly aways", "false advertising" and "drone fell from sky" threads. Everyone wants someone else to bail them out of their mistakes.
2016-10-13
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DJI Mindy
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acoloradohunter Posted at 2016-10-14 07:23
So here is the verdict.

After several phone calls and incident reviews, DJI refuses to cover the  ...

According to your flight data,you push full throttle stick upward and loose the throttle suddenly.
Propeller shoot off within 2 seconds.
The pilot didn't properly install the propellers.It's not covered by warranty.
Thanks for your understanding.
data analyse.png
2016-10-13
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KM5RG-Robert
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2016-10-14 11:50
According to your flight data,you push full throttle stick upward and loose the throttle suddenly.
...

And there you go. Prop was loose and flew off when you went from full throttle to hover.
Sorry dude. At least you didn't fly it into a wall and then complain when it crashed into the wall.
2016-10-13
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acoloradohunter
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2016-10-14 11:50
According to your flight data,you push full throttle stick upward and loose the throttle suddenly.
...

Mindy, thanks for supply the flight log.  I appreciate it.  Can you also provide the motor output for the flight as well? The only way I see for a prop to come loose is for a motor to suddenly change RPM down.  Causing inertia stored in the prop to act on it.

Also this is the exact prop that was on my Drone. First line of the description is where I come from with false advertising.

"Self-tightening design avoids prop becoming loose during operation and potentially flying away."
https://store.dji.com/product/self-tightening-propellers
2016-10-13
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DJI Mindy
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acoloradohunter Posted at 2016-10-14 12:06
Mindy, thanks for supply the flight log.  I appreciate it.  Can you also provide the motor output  ...

Since you didn't install the propellers properly,the self-tightening design will not work properly.
motor analyse.png
2016-10-13
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stuka
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I've always thought that hitting full 100% throttle right off the bat wasn't a good idea. I've noticed this when applying spinners on my gas and large electric rc aircraft. Running the motors up at a steady pace rather than firewalling it, allows the prop/spinner to self tight. Jamming the throttle causes them to spin off frequently. Also, if you have a questionable prop with unidentified weak hub or crack, sudden rapid rpm increase can initiate the flaw. But then I never was s blls to walls flyer. Especially at my age I usually spin my props on, then hold the motor with one hand while snuggin the prop with the other.
2016-10-14
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acoloradohunter
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Thank you once again Mindy, the data is great to see.  Without a sudden loss of motor RPM on M2 there is no explanation beyond a loosely installed prop, I have paid for the repair. And despite my conviction I tightened it, I must have not.

It would have been great for DJI to provide this data at the first denial, I think things would have been smoother for all involved. Rather than a very blanket statement of denial.

To make sure I understand the cause of the crash. "I did not tighten the self-tightening prop enough...."  Please tell me you all at DJI do realize idiocracy of that statement.  I still maintain you are falsely mis-representing your self-tightening propellers if you do not back them up with a warranty repair when they fly off.  Unless the threads, or hub was damaged.  Mine was not in anyway.
What is interesting from the data.  The prop survived RPMs in excess of 7200, but was lost around 6800 to 6900.  The lift force on the prop seems they would have be greater prior to prop loss then when it did occur.  Wonder what the exact forces working on the prop caused its loss at lower RPM.  

In parting.  These are some interesting videos of other Phantoms losing props in flight. Not all are the same model or situation as mine.




2016-10-14
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wmcvey
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acoloradohunter Posted at 2016-10-14 00:06
Mindy, thanks for supply the flight log.  I appreciate it.  Can you also provide the motor output  ...

You're missing the fine point here. "It avoids prop becoming loose during operation" It doesn't say it's going to tighten a loose prop. It means if properly tightened in the first place it will stay that way, tightened. I don't' see anything misleading.
2016-10-14
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roymoon
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I think too many of us forget where RC flying came from.
You bought your plane.
You flew it.
It crashed and you bought another one.

You didn't go back to the manufacturer and whine.
You sucked it up like a man and got on with it.
2016-10-14
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mjlstudios
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State Farm Insurance! $60 per year....no deductible....new P3 in two days....no problem. Read all about it in previous threads from months gone by.
2016-10-14
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jjjjwong
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Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with Motor Current Error Warning?

I had a warning when my drone was in flight. Drone was on its way back to me on auto because it had lost gps connection. Last thing I saw was the video screen flashing black and on again and looking like the world had turned upside down.

As part of the warning it asked me to check my propellers which had already been flying around for about 12 minutes.

I sent in the flight logs and records as what they asked and the video.

DJI said I crashed the drone but at that point I had no control of the drone. DJI denied warranty on the basis of pilot error. I am wondering how is it possible to state pilot error when signal was intermittant at time of error and return home auto function was enacted by the drone.

If there is a DJI moderator about this is my case number. CAS-912302-Z9Q9G1. I replied unsatisfied with the answer provided after having even taken screenshots of the warning that occured on my iphone. I haven't heard a reply for over 2 weeks now.
2017-9-13
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jjjjwong
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jjjjwong Posted at 2017-9-13 15:06
Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with Motor Current Error Warning?

Also just wanted to add.

I have DJI Care Refresh but that only applies if I can produce a drone. My drone is in the river under the tasman bridge with no way to retrieve it.

Would gladly pay a little more than the excess fee to get a new/refurbished drone back.
2017-9-13
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solentlife
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stuka Posted at 2016-10-14 06:31
I've always thought that hitting full 100% throttle right off the bat wasn't a good idea. I've noticed this when applying spinners on my gas and large electric rc aircraft. Running the motors up at a steady pace rather than firewalling it, allows the prop/spinner to self tight. Jamming the throttle causes them to spin off frequently. Also, if you have a questionable prop with unidentified weak hub or crack, sudden rapid rpm increase can initiate the flaw. But then I never was s blls to walls flyer. Especially at my age I usually spin my props on, then hold the motor with one hand while snuggin the prop with the other.

mmmmm its the other way round on a DJI ....

Slamming throttle UP will tighten a prop ....

Dumping throttle suddenly will cause prop to untighten / spin off if not on tight at start.

To those that say the 'tool' is to tighten props - wrong ... its provided to LOOSEN a prop after flight if its tightened up and you have difficulty by hand.
And yes - someone ressurected an old thread !! Hopefully OP has had successful flights since !!

Nigel
2017-9-14
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Fly Dawg
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Taking off @ full throttle is really bad practice anyway. You're not flying a fixed wing. Just like good BBQ, "Low and Slow" is the way to go.
2017-9-14
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solentlife
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quadpilot Posted at 2017-9-14 07:24
hi nigel
i have always use the tool to tighten my props

Its not necessary ...

I spin on the 4 props ... then in turn grip motor one hand and cinch up prop tight with the other hand.

Removal is same - grip motor with one hand ... unscrew prop with other.

Never needed the 'tool' ..... never had a prop come loose and I often do quick stops / hovers that if prop was loose may spin off. But never happened to me yet.

DJI manual in fact advises the way I do it ... has no mention of using 'tool'. Only in its name is it mentioned as 'Prop removal tool' ...
Nigel
2017-9-14
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