Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Well, I got the lecture...again.
1307 27 2016-11-4
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
fans591b215d
lvl.4
Flight distance : 112451 ft
United States
Offline

So it was a beautiful fall day today.  I got off of work early and decided to go flying.  I had an appointment at 6 PM at a building that is for all intents rural, but still within city limits.  The building has about 3 houses to one side and another dozen or so in the other adjacent square mile of land.  I was flying for about 30 minutes when a woman came up to me and said,

"So, you're the drone guy!"
"Yes", I said
"Well we live out here for privacy and we don't like you flying over our house taking pictures."
"I'm not taking pictures of your house or property", I said
"Well, you are just being rude!" and she walked away screaming to a group of neighbors who had assembled in the building's parking lot,  "I found him, he's over here."
Then another guy comes up to me and said, "Are you with the county?"
"No", I said.
"Well, we don't want you around, so it's time to pack up and go somewhere else; and by the way the guy down the road said he was ready to shoot your drone with a shotgun.  Why don't you go down to the river and fly there?"
"I have and was asked to leave there, too.", I said.

I landed and packed up, while this assembled group looked on.  Because I had a reason to be in that area and on that property, I didn't go to my vehicle.  I figured it would be my luck that someone would be pissed enough to take action against me by doing damage to my vehicle or stealing my bird.  Instead I took the bird in the building and went to my meeting.

Now here are the facts of my flights.
1. I didn't have permission from the property owner to fly from this point.  Technically the property is owned by a company and the building's primary use is for union and community meetings.  I was attending a meeting here, but I was in the wrong and I took a chance.
2. I ascended from the airspace of the property to a cruising height of 200'+ and flew out from this point away from the small cluster of houses, but near some of the stand alone houses, so in that regard I was probably wrong too.
3. At no time did I descend below 200' except when I came to a hover and descended straight down to my Home Point.
4. At no time did I hover over a house or point my camera straight down.
5. When asked to pack up and move on, I did without complaining or talking back.

I guess I'm growing more and more frustrated with this hobby.  It's not fun anymore.  I live in an outer ring suburb and have had the police called when I flew on/above my own propert and in a public park for the reasons of invasion of privacy of the public who were in the area.  Both times I grounded my bird without hesitation or argument. Anywhere I go around my area I will be flying near the public.  In order to fly legally, I guess I will have to find a farmer and get permission to take pictures of his corn.

Even if I do everything by the letter of the law, I do not want anymore contacts with police or angry people.

I would be interested in the community's thoughts on this.

Thanks
Chris

2016-11-4
Use props
flighttime1
Captain
Flight distance : 906352 ft
United States
Offline

If you are aware and admitting you were wrong in multiple aspects of the flight, why are you surprised? You can't fly over peoples homes/property without permission and not expect a problem. Simple.

I live in Los Angeles and between the airports and housing congestion, it's almost impossible to find somewhere to practice. I was going to a school after hours which had a huge field but they gated the entrance recently. I now have a much smaller space in a park that doesn't see much traffic. Other than work, that's the only place I can fly at the moment. Get used to i t.
2016-11-4
Use props
RichJ53
Captain
Flight distance : 1575066 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Can I ask what sate and city that you are flying?
Yes, this sounds frustrating and disappointing for sure.
Just a thought:
Have you ever thought of asking for permission first and then flying? This would be easier methodology and even offer to show your aircraft to people and give them some education of what you like about this hobby.  I try and use this approach as much as possible and fly away from people.....  Maybe tell them how expensive these aircraft are and that you have no reason to spy.  Spying using a binoculars would be very cheap in comparison (I use this in a joking manor).

Rich
2016-11-4
Use props
LICENSED PILOT
First Officer
Flight distance : 644833 ft
Offline

". I didn't have permission from the property owner to fly from this point."
You answered your own question...
2016-11-4
Use props
The Target
lvl.4
Flight distance : 112451 ft
United States
Offline

Rich,

I was flying last night in Cottage Grove, MN Southeast of the intersection of 96th Street and Islay Avenue.  I am unable to provide a screen shot because my tablet does not have WiFi and as of yet I can't figure out how to cache the maps or make my phone a GPS hot spot without paying an additional $20/month to do so.

As to educating the public, IMO once the police are involved (even when I follow the letter of the law) "school's not in session".  I don't think an attempt at educating police is a good idea.

2016-11-5
Use props
flighttime1
Captain
Flight distance : 906352 ft
United States
Offline

I pretty sure the point Rich made is that the police would not be involved if you had permission.
2016-11-5
Use props
The Target
lvl.4
Flight distance : 112451 ft
United States
Offline

flighttime1 Posted at 2016-11-5 12:40
I pretty sure the point Rich made is that the police would not be involved if you had permission.

I made the statement, because I have had the police involved when I was legally conducting myself from a public park.  People who were in the park did not like the idea they were being filmed (even though they weren't) and they called the police.  I was still flying when the squad showed up.  they told me to ground the aircraft because they had a complaint.  They told me I was welcome to stay in the park, but my flying there was done.  I asked if I could return another day to fly and they said no.  I wasn't about to try and counter their authority by any attempt at education, that usually does not end well.

As to the event last night, had I had permission, I think the best course was to ground the aircraft and leave because the gang of neighbor's assembled was pretty vocal and the last thing I need is a 2.5K aircraft reduced to bits.  Having permission to fly from the property would have made no difference to them, their minds were made up.

The point is, the general public is afraid of this technology and fear awakens the primal beast in some, whether I'm legal and authorized or not.  Perhaps when this hobby evolves a little more and people are more aware, the propensity for rash judgement will decrease.

2016-11-5
Use props
flighttime1
Captain
Flight distance : 906352 ft
United States
Offline

Once again... If you have permission to fly over someone's property and the police show up, if you tell them you have permission, they will just go away and most likely tell you to make sure you stay in the area you have permission for. I encounter the police quite regularly when doing ground shots, along with security guards and property/retail owners that want to know what I'm doing. They also have a habit of showing up when I'm flying. I've never had a problem. They have always been inquisitive about how much the drone costs and the usual questions. Of course I never fly over anyone's property without permission so I never get complaints. When I practice in a park, I'm quite obviously going through repetitive routines so no one who is watching thinks I'm spying on them and if a jogger or  anyone else comes along, I either ground the bird or make it obvious that I'm staying as far away as possible. But, I have to tell you, if I saw a drone flying over my house, I'd want to shoot it down if it lingered from more than a second or two. And, I don't even own a gun. Just don't do that.
2016-11-5
Use props
RearViewMirror
lvl.4
Offline

I live in a neighborhood and would regularly take off from my driveway when I had my Inspire, fly over "my" house, and over the woods that back up to my house. We have 45 houses in our subdivision and I "personally" never had a issue with any neighbors other than them being very curious about the craft itself. That said, I never flew it over anyone else's property or close to any structure. I would put it up to catch passing storms that regularly come by (not during a storm obviously), freeway traffic on the interstate (I can see almost 10 miles of interstate  behind my house at 300'), and just to take pictures of our entire neighborhood. That being said, everyone of my neighbors knew how I flew and were perfectly content that I was causing no harm or invasion of privacy. I actually invited them over to inspect the craft and show them the different functions so I think that helped also. Making them a part of my hobby.

But 99% of my flying was away from everyone in open spaces with no one around. "Generally" that is where I got my most stunning shots. Places not many ventured. Unfortunately our hobby is not looked on favorably by everyone and I can understand. There are many people that do not fly with the best intentions (certainly not saying you did that). It's just a fact that as drones become more common there will be issues arise by people not flying properly and I fear that our hobby will suffer undue restrictions because of the actions of a few.  
2016-11-5
Use props
Donnie
Captain
Flight distance : 3636782 ft
United States
Offline

You are just in an area that are hostile to  our hooby .  People see commercials where the Aircraft cmaera can zoom in and look in windows and view credit card statements and people freak out .  Just find another area, dont get discouraged , it happens to all of us at one time or another .

Just be courteous and try to explain to them what you are up to and show them the system, now some will have pre- conceived notions and there will be no convincing them.

And the guy with the shotgun is an idiot, I have nothing against firearms but good grief - give me a break
Also knowledge is power , look up the laws in your area and  have them printed with you , also make sure you are liscensed with the FAA and the AMA. Dont be "That Guy " who spouts of regulation number 223.887.6 that states,,,,,,  Just be cool with them but show that you are within your rights and are within the law .  Explain that you will not fly over there property  and you are sorry for any mis-understanding .  But like you say in your situation you were dealing with  the mob mentality ,in that case you did the best thing.


I have had run ins with Police and Joe Q public , usually some information  about the capabilities of the system go a long way . Nine  times out of ten it turns out fine, when it does not , I just pack my things and go and be professional about it.

****Also I notice the Inspire gets a lot of attention , more so than the Phantom , even though they gave the same capability , the Inspire just looks big and bad, where the Phantom looks more like a toy ( to Joe Q public )  this has been my experience anyway .   



donnie  



2016-11-6
Use props
Seangrame
lvl.1

Offline

Hi All, i live in the SF Bay Area in California. I am a high school student so people usually give me the benefit of the doubt but recently i have started to want to fly my inspire in places where i could take advantages of its capabilities. Just yesterday i went to Treasure Island right outside SF. I was very hesitant about flying there because there are always tour planes, police, and an airport nearby. So, i called the SFPD and i just informed them that i would be flying a UAV on Treasure Island and would be in 100% visible sight obeying all guidelines. I think that this is always a good thing to do when flying in spots you think are restricted. The police didn't ask my name or any identification but just appreciated that i informed them instead of just flying. Im not sure about your areas but in mine its worked out well! Thanks
2016-11-6
Use props
Mark Guille
Captain
Flight distance : 2031818 ft
Jersey
Offline

As Sean says, informing the police what you are up to beforehand goes a lomg way, so does informing any nearby airports/airfields. If you have been cleared by FAA to fly where you are then I'm pretty sure the only police intervention you are likely to experience  would be when they are telling angry people to leave you alone. Having liability insurance and local laws on flying printed out and on hand for people to read can be reassuring to people who are unsure as to how they feel about "drones".
I was recently told by a woman that she hated drones. Really? You hate drones? How? Something that you obviously know very little about and yet you feel strongly enough to approach a stranger to declare your hatred?
Is what I felt like saying but I was polite to her and explained what I doing ( taking photos of a house for an estate agent ). When I left she said she couldn't wait to see the photos so I took her email address and sent her a link to the pics. She has since emailed back thanking me. So I guess being polite and talking to people goes quite a long way too.

Don't give up just because of the ignorant, be polite and help educate them with a friendly smile.

Good luck

2016-11-6
Use props
RichJ53
Captain
Flight distance : 1575066 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

The Target Posted at 2016-11-5 02:39
Rich,

I was flying last night in Cottage Grove, MN Southeast of the intersection of 96th Street and ...

I have no experience flying in your state and I think that you are in a sensitive area (in a negative way).  But like you said, you didn't have permission first and this could have started the rub..

I would find another area to fly and try to get permission before you fly. Keep your FAA registration card and any other information with you that can be used to verify you are legal. I have spoken with the Police and Park Rangers and found them to be very accommodating. If a issue or concern arises, I will just obey the rules.  I carry may local area regulations, my airman license, FAA card, AMA card with insurance at all times when I fly.  In addition, I will notify the local area control tower and give them my operation plan, if flying in a warning area (this does not happen much).

I am one that feels we need to work hard on keeping others informed of our sport / hobby in a good way. Fly safe and talk to people whenever possible.

Rich
2016-11-6
Use props
The Target
lvl.4
Flight distance : 112451 ft
United States
Offline

Here's my latest and last update on this subject.

I was wrong for flying without permission from my established home point.  PERIOD.
I reviewed the video and I'm pretty sure that even though the camera was horizontal I did venture into the airspace over at least one of the homes, but even if I had not, I was flying over farm fields and other natural lands for which I did not have permission and for that I was wrong.  PERIOD.
I did ground the aircraft and walk away once I was approached by the second individual, so at least I did something right.
From now on, I will fly only in public areas (parks, softball fields, etc) and hope I don't get LE involved.  I live in a town that is populated by a lot of established (dare I say curmudgeonly) people.  Many simply do not understand and probably do not want to understand this hobby.
I have not seen any nefarious videos of people reading credit card statements, other personal information, etc. That is sad.  I have seen vids of people spying on sunbathers and that is sad and creepy.  Sidenote to creepers:  Porn is pretty cheap these days (or so I am told!)  Nonetheless, using UAS devices for anything but achieving a birds-eye view of landscapes is going to cause many problems for alll of us involved.

Since I meet at that location where I was flying weekly, I intend to go to the door of the individual who approached me and tell him that I was wrong for doing what I did,  offer him a handshake and put this matter to rest.  I do not want my actions to offend the generosity of the property owner for allowing my organization to meet there.  I am their guest and it is a privilege to meet there.

I appreciate all the feedback from the forum.


2016-11-7
Use props
Donnie
Captain
Flight distance : 3636782 ft
United States
Offline

The Target Posted at 2016-11-7 04:32
Here's my latest and last update on this subject.

I was wrong for flying without permission from my ...

Just to clarify , this is the commercial that people see and assume quad-copters can zoom in and look at there private information .  This unfortunately is what the public thinks we do with our aircraft

I think you are doing the right thing by explaining yourself to the people , I bet they are very receptive to your reaching out to them .

Dont get discouraged though, find a good area to fly and keep exploring other areas as well , just remember from time to time you are going to run into curmudgeons now and then ( Love that word by the way )
donnie



The video was removed by you tube ..........sorrry
2016-11-7
Use props
Farnk666
Captain
Flight distance : 1711394 ft
Australia
Offline

The Target Posted at 2016-11-7 18:32
Here's my latest and last update on this subject.

I was wrong for flying without permission from my ...

Hey OP,

Thanks for posting - this is a matter that we all have some exposure to and the conversation is a good one to have. Despite the circumstances of the flight, there is real value in comparing notes on how we interact with onlookers and the general public.

Only good can come of such discussions as it informs us all and we collectively present a more considerate and appropriate posture to the community. We don't all have these incidents to deal with on a regular basis, but we can all be informed as to what strategies work well and what don't when dealing with uninformed/uneducated/fact-resistant people.

Thanks again, this has been one of the best and most productive threads on the forum lately.
2016-11-7
Use props
DJI-Ken
DJI team
Flight distance : 1515312 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Donnie Posted at 2016-11-7 20:57
Just to clarify , this is the commercial that people see and assume quad-copters can zoom in and lo ...

Ha, never seen that commercial before.
Luckily I've never once been hassled, but I fly in the hills and there's never anyone around.
I have to admit though, when I started FPV flying many years ago I flew over my neighborhood but it was with a motor glider and everyone in the neighborhood used to think it was cool. I'm sure it would be a different story now.
2016-11-8
Use props
Donnie
Captain
Flight distance : 3636782 ft
United States
Offline

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-11-8 12:11
Ha, never seen that commercial before.
Luckily I've never once been hassled, but I fly in the hil ...

     In my neighborhood everyone is very cool with me when I fly also , I did have one curmudgeon but after a little bit of education , I won him over too.  I just think it is knee jerk reaction by  people who see these type of commercials and think  we are " Peep Pervs"  .  I mean I might be a slight " Perv" in the right circumstance but not a "Peep - Perv" ..... I mean good grief I do have some  standards ........
     I always liked the one about Miley Cyrus, why when she licks  a Hammer in her Music video's  it is considerd "Art and Entertainment "  and when I do it  I am considered "Drunk And Disorderly " and have to leave the Home  Depot.

donnie
2016-11-8
Use props
The Target
lvl.4
Flight distance : 112451 ft
United States
Offline

Farnk666 Posted at 2016-11-7 20:41
Hey OP,

Thanks for posting - this is a matter that we all have some exposure to and the conversat ...

Thanks for the affirmation Farn.

My ego was a little chapped because initially I thought "How dare you speak to me that way?", but then I realized after reflection and review of the video that they easily could have thought or said "How dare you fly that thing in our neighborhood?"

I do want my experience to be a learning one for all, especially newbie pilots who have never flown RC.  After all, any UAS with GPS is a dangerous gift to someone with no experience, because it is literally an open the box, charge the batteries and fly operation.  Danger abounds in situations like this and any experience will help many and thus keep our hobby safe.
2016-11-9
Use props
HTC
lvl.2
United States
Offline

I'm pretty sure you don't need permission to fly over peoples property unless you are taking photos of it. Just like you don't need permission to fly an airplane over someones property, they don't control the airspace, the FAA does. If someone shoots down your drone because they don't like it over their property then they are open to all sorts of charges that could be filed against them.
2017-1-27
Use props
Coigreach
Second Officer
Flight distance : 546014 ft
Australia
Offline

HTC Posted at 2017-1-27 06:40
I'm pretty sure you don't need permission to fly over peoples property unless you are taking photos of it. Just like you don't need permission to fly an airplane over someones property, they don't control the airspace, the FAA does. If someone shoots down your drone because they don't like it over their property then they are open to all sorts of charges that could be filed against them.

Unless it's different in the USA!! you might own the house and the land but not the Air! and you only have the right to privacy in your home and even that's only when you have you curtains or blinds closed.
ps if you having sex in your lounge and someone can see you from outside it's your fault for not clossing the blinds...lol
2017-1-27
Use props
method007
Second Officer
Flight distance : 110446 ft
United States
Offline

Coigreach Posted at 2017-1-27 08:14
Unless it's different in the USA!! you might own the house and the land but not the Air! and you only have the right to privacy in your home and even that's only when you have you curtains or blinds closed.
ps if you having sex in your lounge and someone can see you from outside it's your fault for not clossing the blinds...lol

The USA is the same.  Thanks to a supreme court case that ruled a police officer can legally fly a helicopter into your backyard and look at your secret marijuana farm - Americans do not have a right to privacy from the air.  That being said, some counties have passed laws that ignore this ruling.
2017-1-27
Use props
ems12a
lvl.2
Flight distance : 493635 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Coigreach Posted at 2017-1-27 08:14
Unless it's different in the USA!! you might own the house and the land but not the Air! and you only have the right to privacy in your home and even that's only when you have you curtains or blinds closed.
ps if you having sex in your lounge and someone can see you from outside it's your fault for not clossing the blinds...lol

This is very true, however US courts have not tested the "expectation of privacy" when it comes to drones yet.

I regularly fly my drone in my neighborhood, but I do not hover over someones back yard for extended periods of time. I have never had an issue and when and if I do draw a crowd it's out of curiosity and not anger.
2017-1-27
Use props
Mikey.C
lvl.3
Flight distance : 1097139 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

I would only add that when i go flying near not over! residents home / property i politely knock on there door i.e farm land i might be flying over and ''ASK'' or let them know generally just to let them know i am not filming them there family or doing anything i should not be with the drone. You get a much better response when you engage with people before flying over or near there land even if it is public and you are flying legally etc.
2017-2-2
Use props
Vender10
lvl.1

United States
Offline

The Target Posted at 2016-11-5 15:05
I made the statement, because I have had the police involved when I was legally conducting myself from a public park.  People who were in the park did not like the idea they were being filmed (even though they weren't) and they called the police.  I was still flying when the squad showed up.  they told me to ground the aircraft because they had a complaint.  They told me I was welcome to stay in the park, but my flying there was done.  I asked if I could return another day to fly and they said no.  I wasn't about to try and counter their authority by any attempt at education, that usually does not end well.

As to the event last night, had I had permission, I think the best course was to ground the aircraft and leave because the gang of neighbor's assembled was pretty vocal and the last thing I need is a 2.5K aircraft reduced to bits.  Having permission to fly from the property would have made no difference to them, their minds were made up.

Just and FYI ..There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public park or any other public space. So they have no right to assume privacy in such a place. Next time in that position start counting cell phones and have them do the same or start counting DOT camera or park security camera's There are all going to found any most public spaces.
2017-2-2
Use props
Donnie Stugots
Captain
Flight distance : 3636782 ft
United States
Offline

Mikey.C Posted at 2017-2-2 01:00
I would only add that when i go flying near not over! residents home / property i politely knock on there door i.e farm land i might be flying over and ''ASK'' or let them know generally just to let them know i am not filming them there family or doing anything i should not be with the drone. You get a much better response when you engage with people before flying over or near there land even if it is public and you are flying legally etc.

Agreed, once folks are informed they are normally very receptive .  I am all about living by the "Golden Rule " of treating others as I want to be treated,.

cheers

donnie
2017-2-2
Use props
GB44
Captain
Flight distance : 343848 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Donnie Posted at 2016-11-7 04:57
Just to clarify , this is the commercial that people see and assume quad-copters can zoom in and look at there private information .  This unfortunately is what the public thinks we do with our aircraft

I think you are doing the right thing by explaining yourself to the people , I bet they are very receptive to your reaching out to them .

Donnie,

The video link seems to be broken so unable to view it.

2017-2-2
Use props
Donnie Stugots
Captain
Flight distance : 3636782 ft
United States
Offline

GB44 Posted at 2017-2-2 08:44
Donnie,

The video link seems to be broken so unable to view it.

Thanks , You tube must have removed it ......sorry

donnie
2017-2-2
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules