DJI: could you make a TB 48B that incorporates some of the chemistry changes that the new Inspire 2's battery has. It could help retain the value of the I1 for existing owners, giving longer flight times on the same platform.

Hi Mike,

It seems the chemistry of Inspire 2's TB50 battery is the same as the Inspire 1 TB48 battery - both are 6s producing the same nominal 22.8V.

It is the capacity of the dual battery system (195Wh in total) and the different designs of motors & 15 inches propellers of the 3.54kg Inspire 2 with X4s that outperform the 22 minutes flight time of the 3.04kg Inspire 1 with X3 & TB48 (130Wh) & 13 inches propellers by a margin of additional 5 minutes.

Henry

Henry M.Y. Posted at 2016-11-16 19:27
Hi Mike,

It seems the chemistry of Inspire 2's TB50 battery is the same as the Inspire 1 TB48 batte ...

Thanks Henry - do you know how the P4P's new batteries have about 350MAh more capacity for the same weight?

Mike

DJI better keep supporting the Inspire 1, or there will be a lot of upset customers, including me. I feel sorry for the X5R and XT users who spent thousands of dollars in their quad. Not knowing shortly those camera's are not supported in the next Inspire 2. It seems with the Inspire 2 and no backward compatibility, it's clear DJI wants us to upgrade. With the minor changes seen in the Inspire 2, I will not upgrade, sorry. I don't have a aerial business to make up the $6,000+ you guys are charging for the X5S and Inspire 2. Most people will not upgrade to the Inspire 2 and buy the X4S. If so, then that's a bit ridiculous lol. As for me though, I'm going to buy the X5. The X3 has done me well for awhile now, no complaints. The X5 will do better I'm sure. Hopefully DJI is serious about pushing out a new Inspire 1 battery for their current customers. If they just abandon us, they'll lose customers. I won't look further purchasing from DJI any longer. Would be nice to feel respected and valued as a customer.

Cabralkev Posted at 2016-11-16 18:31
DJI better keep supporting the Inspire 1, or there will be a lot of upset customers, including me. I ...

If you are making photos you probably dont need an Inspire2. BUT if you do videos...........

all 4K30 / 60mbps cameras are basically crap and log time outdated no matter how much steps they have or whatever - there just IS NO smooth yaw with 30fps. And there can be no good video with 60mbps. I said this a year ago.

Actually the really important change is 4k/60 and 100 mbps. The X4 will sure make better videos then X5 besides X5 videos where always disappointing and hardly better then X3 for unknown reasons.

MTC

The new Inspire 2 is a complete departure from the existing Inspire 1. Nothing will be compatible with our Inspire 1 including the new cameras.  The battery chemistry is the same from what I have read and only increased the capacity using 2 batteries in a locking carrier.

Rich

Machoman Posted at 2016-11-17 01:38
If you are making photos you probably dont need an Inspire2. BUT if you do videos...........

all  ...

I disagree with you on the X5 vs. X3 comparison. Your own work on the lovely train shots shows this! The bitrate issue is a limitation but not a crippling one IF you slow down every flight manoeuvre when shooting in high contrast, high detail situations. Otherwise the stuttering effect with GOP's becomes obvious and frankly, not acceptable for commercial applications.

Having an X5R (again your work shows this nicely) is a big help although the workflow is a pain. One learns to live with it.

I think that the Inspire 2 is pushing for bigger budget users - its greater weight and higher battery costs would leave space for an Inspire1 to stay in the ecosystem for users with less demanding needs. It would really not be too difficult for DJI to put in the new 20.4 MP imaging chip and new Ambarella video processor into a reworked X5 II  and X 5R II to keep existing customers happy. Beyond bitrate, h.265 is a superior compression codec and the two advancements work to compound image quality benefit.

Its one thing to replace P series aircraft but many owners of the Inspire 1 series have made substantial investments in a good platform and it simply doesn't make sense to not keep them happy.

DJI completely ignored customers regarding LB1 but the sales of that system were probably smaller than the currently installed Inspire 1 base. I think they DO listen but are just very hard headed when it comes to dollars and sense. Maybe when they find that the Inspire 2 uptake isn't as strong as they predicted initially, things would move along the direction many of us are asking for.

Well said, MTC.

Henry

DJI's strategy is simple.

If you want the features or better IQ / resolution that the I2 appears to offer, then buy one.
If not, then keep what you have.

Two options, easy peasy.

Don't expect any further significant development work for the I1, despite a reasonably sized installed user base there isn't and won't be the profit margin in developing and supporting an entirely new camera payload for an obsolete model. Even if they did, they would not sell very many and the unit cost would be prohibitive. This is why the XT cams were so expensive and mostly made by FLIR rather than DJI.
In the consumer electronics industry sales volume is all important.  

DJI's path for people unhappy with the X3's output is the P4Pro. (Yes, you could go with the I2 and X4, but it's a large amount of cash and pretty hard to justify.)
DJI's path for people unhappy with the X5 or X5R is the I2. Purchase price is pretty much immaterial for commercial applications as these things will pay for themselves pretty quickly.

So, take your choice and move forward, coz DJI certainly ain't looking back!

Farnk666 Posted at 2016-11-17 11:31
DJI's strategy is simple.

If you want the features or better IQ / resolution that the I2 appears to ...

What you say makes sense but I think that replacing the imaging and  Amberalla VP chip in the X5 would be trivial to do to allow it to go up to 100Mbps and can use the same dies and such for the X5 so that won't increase retooling costs. That camera could sell close to price of a P4P so I think it would be profitable

It can't hurt to ask although I suspect you are probably right about the consumer mentality.

Mike-the-cat Posted at 2016-11-17 13:20
What you say makes sense but I think that replacing the imaging and  Amberalla VP chip in the X5 w ...

Unless their OEM has that capability and they could see a sufficiently large market to justify the development and support expense, it just wouldn't happen. I'd say that if someone within DJI suggested it, they would get shut down very quickly as it would directly compete with sales of the new platform reducing the all-important margin.

Besides, most people will just pony up the $$ to buy the newest shiny thing. Look at how many I1's have come up for sale over the past week or so. Many people are abandoning the I1 so they can cash up for the new one. People get caught up in the marketing and eagerly swallow the Kool-aid.

It's an opportunity to pick up some cheap 2nd hand gear. I'll look out for an X5 at some stage. (wouldn't pay new price, too expensive for what it is.) Ideally I'd like a Z3, but that simply doesn't work yet and I'd not be holding my breath for a fix now that the I2 is out.

Farnk666 Posted at 2016-11-17 13:56
Unless their OEM has that capability and they could see a sufficiently large market to justify the ...

The X5 is OK for slow flying and Osmo use. It really is problematic with fast image changes that contain details because of the bit rate issue. You can get a 14-42 lens. The zoom works OK if you don't need dynamic zooming.

The I1 could be bought up for agri and inspection use where the fancy nav and higher quality imaging features are not needed. DJI should start an exchange program the way Apple does it. And if that works for smartphones, it will work for good quality drones too.

Mike-the-cat Posted at 2016-11-17 14:05
The X5 is OK for slow flying and Osmo use. It really is problematic with fast image changes that co ...

I think you're being a bit idealistic there MTC.

As a manufacturer, DJI are interested in shipping the most boxes out the door with the highest margin possible. It's simple as that.

Comparisons with Apple are neither helpful nor relevant when seeking to understand DJI's model - completely different culture, product set and business practices. Most of Apple's money is made licensing media content and selling apps rather than making and selling hardware.

Apple is also sitting on top of a pile of cash that most small countries could only dream of - they are able
to invest in major R&D and QA of products as well as fund mass production of stock before it ships.

DJI are nothing in comparison, a mere minnow.

Farnk666 Posted at 2016-11-17 16:21
I think you're being a bit idealistic there MTC.

As a manufacturer, DJI are interested in shipping ...

Apple still makes most of its money on hardware. See https://www.statista.com/statist ... s-revenue-of-apple/

Its clear that DJI watches sales before ramping production but I think that's because this market is less clear than for smartphones. They learn though - lets see how P4P shipments are delivered (on time or not)

As for size of company: US$8-10b (2015 valuation). probably more now. qualifies DJI as a medium cap company. Its not a conglomerate but its certainly not a minion.

Mike-the-cat Posted at 2016-11-16 23:54
Thanks Henry - do you know how the P4P's new batteries have about 350MAh more capacity for the sam ...

Hi MTC,

I'm not 100% sure - it can be the improvement on manufacturing techniques (e.g. increasing the cathode / anode surface areas in the cells) of the new P4P battery that accounts for the 9.7% increase in battery capacity, with only 1.3% increase in battery weight. If DJI deploys the same improvement to the TB48 battery, increasing its capacity to 143Wh, we may be able to enjoy 2 more minutes' flight time with our Inspire 1.

Notice how close the watt-hour capacity rating of the new P4P battery to the 2 years old Inspire 1 TB47 battery is! The 30 minutes P4P flight time could be even longer if P4P's motor / prop efficiencies were as high as the Inspire 1's - 89.2Wh for a 1.39kg aircraft vs 99.9Wh for a 2.94kg aircraft that have 18 minutes flight time should give the 1.39kg aircraft a 34 minutes flight time if everything else equal.

Whilst I also wish DJI would develop a higher capacity then the 130Wh TB48 battery for Inspire 1, I don't have high hope on it.

Henry