Legal or Illegal?

URL: http://www.abc10.com/news/local/sacramento/police-seize-drone-for-flying-in-california-exposition-airspace/360359483

That is complete BS. There is no "California Exposition Airspace" on the sectional aeronautical chart as defined by the FAA and the "airspace" above that is not under their jurisdiction. Overzealous cops who appear to be ignorant of the law.

That's an illegal seizure. Not even the FAA can take personal property from an airman without going through courts and due process. This guy needs a lawyer asap. He will win

Just to give an example so non pilots can understand this. If you go fly a Cessna above that area to take pictures, when you land the police can't just seize your airplane. They can't even legally force you to land. Period.

Yeah... That's kind of BS. Federal law? What law would that be???If it was restricted airspace, it would have to be registered with the FAA as such, and that information would be available on the NoFlyZone app.
Clearly, this is a case of a couple cops that just don't like drones. They probably know they made a mistake, but are going to stand behind their decision and add red tape by passing it off to the FAA. Odds are, the guy will get his drone back, but in what condition?

This is just cops being dicks, and hiding behind official sounding lingo...

Carpe' Dronum!

dana5 Posted at 2016-12-2 11:44
Yeah... That's kind of BS. Federal law? What law would that be???If it was restricted airspace, it w ...

1) There is no federal law
2) Even if there was, it's not their jurisdiction.

Sucks for this guy, I hope he gets his drone back without paying a fortune in law fees.

I think it's a bit harsh taking his mavic why didn't they take his address details and get back to him. Here's a tip turn your big red flashing lights off when filming in public places on a night, and tape up the green flashing light. Stealth mav mode it's on the next update.

Funny thing... If you look at AirMap (mobile app to determine safe flying areas), and look at the CalExpo area... Almost all of the area around there has some sort of flying restriction EXCEPT where the guy was aparently flying, where there are no restrictions at all! Check it out!!!

CalExpo

This poor guy did absolutely nothing wrong.

Stories like this really make my blood boil. Instead of nabbing real criminals.... and believe me there are plenty in the Sacramento area... they decided to harass this poor guy who was doing absolutely nothing wrong.

"Police seized Munm’s drone because he was operating it in California Exposition airspace."

Cal Expo has NO airspace jurisdiction, it does not belong to them by any means. I hope this guy sues them in court.  

By the way, if you want to send them a piece of your mind, here you go: info@calexpo.com

Mir Posted at 2016-12-2 15:13
Stories like this really make my blood boil. Instead of nabbing real criminals.... and believe me th ...

It irritates me too... But the police are probably salty about drones because of random idiots flying them stupidly, and then taking it out on this guy, who seems pretty honest, and is clearly trying to follow the rules.

If they confiscate the drone, it's for evidence, which implies a hearing or trial. Once acquitted of the charges, which he most certainly will be, his property will be returned to him.

Personally, I think he should file a counter claim, for harassment.

This is also an indication of where things are going... Before long, we are all going to be required to have a FAA license in hand, and pass the part 107 tests. (this applies only to the US, which is where this incident took place) So, keep your data, and start keeping a log of flight times and other information about your flights. You may need that information later to obtain a license, just as Adam Savage suggests in the video below @ time index 12:10


This video was a while back, and since then, Field Notes HAS released a log book for drones, designed by Adam Savage himself!

The Board unanimously voted in a Drone policy back in June, but I don't know what the policy was...  I'll see if I can dig it up.

CALIFORNIA EXPOSITION & STATE FAIR

ANNUAL STATE FAIR COMMITTEE

Committee Meeting Minutes

Friday, June 3, 2016

9:00 am

UNFINISHED BUSINESS

2. California Exposition and State Fair Drone Policy CEO Pickering reported that although Cal Expo has been active promoting Drone racing there is a movement around the nation limiting Drones flying over large public events. As we are a large public event facility and working with the Deputy Attorney Generals’ office it was suggested that the Cal Expo Board of Directors adopt a formal drone policy allowing our law enforcement officers to enforce it. Motion: It was moved by Director Durfee and seconded by Director Chong to accept and recommend to the Board for adoption of the California Exposition and State Fair Drone Policy as presented. All in favor, motion carried unanimously.

This is a slippery slope.

Only the FAA controls airspace.  Even Disneyland couldn't control the airspace above their park so they solicited help from Homeland Security to froce the FAA's hand in issuing a TFR limiting the minimum altitude of any aircraft flying over their property.

There is no restrictions in place for the airspace above Cal Expo, at least not from the controlling entity . . . .the FAA.

Part 107 specifically states;

Small unmanned aircraft may not operate over any persons
not directly participating in the operation, not under a
covered structure, and not inside a covered stationary
vehicle.
•
Daylight
-only operations, or civil twilight (30 minutes before
official sunrise to 30 minutes after official sunset, local time)
with appropriate anti
-collision lighting.

However it's the FAA tasked with enforcement, and I have yet to find where an FAR violation requires forfeiture of equipment.  Certainly not to the local authorities.  

Mooney Posted at 2016-12-2 18:19
This is a slippery slope.

Only the FAA controls airspace.  Even Disneyland couldn't control the air ...

I missed this story in the local news (I live near here), but I will say this: much of what was cited in the news report sounds like rubbish...but the media in the States these days are...well, rubbish.

However, Cal Expo is a very large venue, with many thousands of people in it during any given event. Playing devil's advocate, if the pilot was flying above the event, especially low, he would be in violation of part 107. Admittedly, a lot of things are "what if" here, but knowing that venue, it would be easy to see how someone would swoop low over it to get a shot of all the pretty xmas lights and the folks there. Lots of BS in the article referencing airspace, blah blah blah...but that being said...

As disenchanted with the media as I am personally these days, there's probably more to this story that what they reported. I'll be interested to see what comes of it, and I really hope the pilot was following the FAR so he can stick it to them. But there's always more to the story than what today's flailing media reports...

THAT SUCKS!!!!  And a brand new Mavic at that.

Cops:  "Hey sir, we need you to land your drone immediately."

Pilot:  "Yes, sir."  (So, he lands the drone some inaccessible place where they can't seize it from him).

Wow, get a protest together and have thousands of drones flying over CALIFORNIA EXPOSITION.

If this guy wants to fight to get his $1000 drone back, he's probably going to have to pay more then that in lawyer and court fees.  What a joke.

Hate to see the guy deprived of his pride and joy, but isn't he in violation of flying in an urban area, and flying at night? I thought there was regulation that states you cannot fly 20 mins after sunset and 20 mins before sunrise? Could be just here in the UK, but if it is the case in the USA too, wouldn't it be more discrete to fly in an area away from the public eye in an area that wouldn't be hazardous if the drone were to crash through pilot error or otherwise?

There is absolutely NO law against *hobby* flying at night.
Part 107 explicitely states it does not cover hobby flying.

However, in both the FAA "fly for fun" rules and the AMA community guidelines it does say do not fly above groups of people.

robble Posted at 2016-12-3 09:24
There is absolutely NO law against *hobby* flying at night.
Part 107 explicitely states it does not  ...

I stand corrected robble.

rick39 Posted at 2016-12-3 00:26
I stand corrected robble.

Wasn't dire ted at you.  I have no ideas of the rules outside the US.

But I think I may be wrong about laws in the UK too. I read of the 20 minute before and after the sun disappears on the net somewhere, but can't find it now.

rick39 Posted at 2016-12-3 05:26
I stand corrected robble.

There is a loophole there, technically the FAA has left themselves an enforcement tool to apply 107 rules to anyone that is flying in an unsafe manner, hobby or otherwise.  According to part 107 as long as the aircraft meets ALL of the requirements outlined in section 336 of H. R. 658—62 then 107 does not apply.  Well one of those requirements is that the aircraft is "operated in accordance with a community based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization".  This gives them a lot of latitude.

rick39 Posted at 2016-12-4 14:40
But I think I may be wrong about laws in the UK too. I read of the 20 minute before and after the su ...

Air Navigation Order 2016

“Day” means the time from half an hour before sunrise until half an hour after sunset (both times exclusive), sunset and sunrise being determined at surface level;

“Night” means the time from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise (both times inclusive), sunset and sunrise being determined at surface level;

Just came across this and thought you folks would find it interesting. The guy who's Mavic was taken by the police explains what happened after...

Thanks for the update and glad he got it back.

trance728- Posted at 2016-12-17 22:26
Thanks for the update and glad he got it back.

You're welcome and am happy he got it back also.

This is very interesting as we move forward on who controls the Airspace. My understanding is the FAA controls the Airspace, however, cities are stepping in where they shouldn't.

City of Orlando just created a new ordinance that passed first reading last week and will pass second reading in January banning drone flight within 500ft of any major event and within 500 feet of any park. If you live within 500ft of a park, you can't even fly your drone over your own property. Other cities in the area are looking at creating their own ordinances to ban drone usage.

The issue is, none of us have the money to fight Government. Funny enough, the news article for a major news source here in Orlando posted this article with the photo being a military drone, you know, the MQ-1B Predator, and the photo even had the missiles attached. Talk about scare tactics.

I think this is only going to get worse because of a minority of idiots who fly drones next to airports and have came into close proximity of aircraft and this type of behaviour is just going to add fuel to the fire, we have had quite a few of these indecents here in the U.K. already and I think not only should these knob heads get their drones confiscated but should also be given hefty prison sentences

Boardtalk Posted at 2016-12-17 13:47
Just came across this and thought you folks would find it interesting. The guy who's Mavic was taken by the police explains what happened after...

https://youtu.be/A-oUVkDrvaM

Wondering when organizations in the US will realize they don't control airspace, that privilege belongs exclusively to the FAA.

Cal Expo can make all rules it wants for what happens on the ground.

I think this cop just wanted to give himself a Christmas present.