Hi,
Picked up a Phantom 4 a few weeks back and its is amazing and I want to use it in my work photographing homes before and after major remodeling project that we design.  Problem is, most of my projects are in the restricted air space for Washington, DC.  I understand that and appreciate that.  I want to photograph and video.  I dont want to fly around much, maybe 100 feet in the air and around a typical house here in the DC Metro area.  Is it possible to legally fly my drone in this air space or should I just return it?  The DJI GO app prevented me from taking off last week so I contacted DJI support and they prompted told me to file an "unlock" request.  Problem with that is the website wont register what I think is the correct "positioning" of the project (in restricted air space).  All advice is welcome -thanks

Others may help out here, but I think Washington is in a total no fly zone, meaning you cannot fly in most of it, and it is not possible to sefl-authorise yourself.

Geebax Posted at 2016-12-18 18:51
Others may help out here, but I think Washington is in a total no fly zone, meaning you cannot fly in most of it, and it is not possible to sefl-authorise yourself.

Thank you.  That is what I think I'm up against

fans6511d68b Posted at 2016-12-18 18:24
Thank you.  That is what I think I'm up against

go to  SKYVECTOR.COM  and scroll up to the northeast quadrant of the US and you will see the restricted area
circled in red. hope this helps.

It's recommended to contact the FlySafe team directly via flysafe@dji.com to see if it could be potentially unlocked.

Being from the area I can tell you that anything in a radius of 15miles of Reagan National is 100% restricted, and anything from 15-30 miles is highly restricted to aircraft that can communicate with a tower. Only easing in that range involve Leesburg and College Park airports. I don't think even 107 license (which you will need to take real estate pictures for hire) will allow you to fly.  One of the hard requirements is a radio in the aircraft.

Some reference links:
http://02b954f.netsolhost.com/images/FRZ_NOTAM4.pdf
http://02b954f.netsolhost.com/amatfr4.html

Even hobbyists are banned in many exceptions.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/membership/clubs/notams.aspx

Thanks for the help.  Sadly,I have returned my drone back to Best Buy. If DJI can offer me some straight forward instructions I would consider buying again.  Most likely the Phantom 4 Pro. I could never get the unlock feature/web page to accept any locations near Washington, DC

I live in a city where there are a lot of ordinances against drones as well as airports nearby and need for a commercial permit too.  Even when I asked at the local CATS FAA 107 testing center they had no clue as to where to fly or practice with a drone at.  Even the AMA field managers don't want them at their fields.  The CATS place told me "To fly it and ask for forgiveness if caught."  Sweet.

Mike01 Posted at 2016-12-25 08:22
Thanks for the help.  Sadly,I have returned my drone back to Best Buy. If DJI can offer me some straight forward instructions I would consider buying again.  Most likely the Phantom 4 Pro. I could never get the unlock feature/web page to accept any locations near Washington, DC

That is correct. The restricted areas around Washington are the most restrictive of anywhere in the world. You will not get to unlock any of them.

Geebax Posted at 2016-12-25 06:13
That is correct. The restricted areas around Washington are the most restrictive of anywhere in the world. You will not get to unlock any of them.

Kind of a National Security thing.
How about a gimble on a long pole?  ;-)

CCrew Posted at 2016-12-19 14:36
Being from the area I can tell you that anything in a radius of 15miles of Reagan National is 100% restricted, and anything from 15-30 miles is highly restricted to aircraft that can communicate with a tower. Only easing in that range involve Leesburg and College Park airports. I don't think even 107 license (which you will need to take real estate pictures for hire) will allow you to fly.  One of the hard requirements is a radio in the aircraft.

Some reference links:

Correct on the Flight Restricted Zone (FRZ) 0-15 mile radius of DCA.  It's completely a no fly zone.  On Oct 17, 2016 the FAA eased up on the rules for the Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA) 15-30 mile radius of DCA for unmanned aircraft.  Basically stating that hobbyist can fly in the SFRA as long as you follow the FAA's new rules on unmanned systems.

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_6_1117.html

ALL MODEL AIRCRAFT (FOR HOBBYIST OR RECREATIONAL USE ONLY) UAS OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN DC SFRA UNLESS IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS LISTED BELOW.  REFER TO SECTION VI OF THIS NOTAM FOR THE APPLIED DEFINITION OF MODEL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS.

A. THE UAS IS REGISTERED AND MARKED AS REQUIRED BY THE FAA. REFER TO INSTRUCTIONS PROVIDED AT WWW.FAA.GOV/UAS/REGISTRATION.

B. THE UAS WEIGHS LESS THAN 55 LBS. INCLUDING ALL ADDED EQUIPMENT (SUCH AS CAMERAS) ATTACHED TO THE AIRCRAFT.

C. OPERATIONS MUST REMAIN AT OR BELOW 400 FEET ABOVE GROUND LEVEL (AGL) UNLESS ISSUED A SITE SPECIFIC WAIVER BY SYSTEM OPERATIONS 1610171300-PERM END PART 2 OF 6 FDC 6/1117 ZDC PART 3 OF 6 SECURITY...SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS, SECURITY.

D. OPERATIONS MUST REMAIN WITHIN VISUAL LINE OF SIGHT OF THE OPERATOR AND IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE FOLLOWING:
   1. OPERATIONS MUST BE CONDUCTED UNDER VISUAL METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS (VMC).
   2. OPERATIONS MUST NOT BE CONDUCTED DURING NIGHT AS DEFINED IN 14 CFR SECTION 1.1.
   3. FLIGHTS UNDER SPECIAL VISUAL FLIGHT RULES (SVFR) ARE NOT AUTHORIZED.

E. PRIOR TO OPERATING WITHIN 5 MILES OF AN AIRPORT, THE UAS OPERATOR MUST NOTIFY THE AIRPORT OPERATOR AND, WHEN PRESENT, THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL TOWER.

F. OPERATIONS MUST NOT INTERFERE WITH AND MUST GIVE WAY TO MANNED AIRCRAFT.

G. MODEL AIRCRAFT UAS OPERATIONS ARE COMPLETELY PROHIBITED IN THE DC FRZ. SECTION III. OPERATING REQUIREMENTS FOR DC SFRA (CIVIL, INCLUDING COMMERCIAL, UAS

Hey were you able to figure out how to unlock the P4P in DJI to operate there? I recently got a waiver approved to fly right inside the DC FRZ in Lorton and I plan to fly next week sometime and want to be sure I have everything set beforehand. Please let me know how and if you were able to do so. Thanks in advance

gabe_riv Posted at 5-9 07:20
Hey were you able to figure out how to unlock the P4P in DJI to operate there? I recently got a waiver approved to fly right inside the DC FRZ in Lorton and I plan to fly next week sometime and want to be sure I have everything set beforehand. Please let me know how and if you were able to do so. Thanks in advance

It still won't work with a DJI product. The aircraft does not know about 'waivers' and will still stop you from flying.

gabe_riv Posted at 5-9 07:20
Hey were you able to figure out how to unlock the P4P in DJI to operate there? I recently got a waiver approved to fly right inside the DC FRZ in Lorton and I plan to fly next week sometime and want to be sure I have everything set beforehand. Please let me know how and if you were able to do so. Thanks in advance

Greetings.

I live here and I've been flying a while so I'll give you some input.

First thing you should know is the DC FRZ and the DJI Restricted zones are not perfectly aligned.  That means it's possible to fly within the DC FRZ without a DJI restriction, and it's also possible to try to fly outside the DC FRZ but with no success due to an unwarranted DJI restriction.  

Here is my favorite DC FRZ map:  https://www.faasafety.gov/files/ ... 1204%20ADIZ-FRZ.jpg

It's actually a sectional chart for pilots so there's not a ton of detail regarding towns and roads and such.  However it does show I-95 and there's a creek there.  So it looks like the town of Lorton is about exactly on the line.  

Here's another useful map - it's great for drone pilots because you can toggle between the road map and the sectional chart:

http://vfrmap.com/

However, looking at DJI's flysafe maps, Lorton is outside the DJI DC FRZ line.

https://www.dji.com/flysafe/geo-map

But it's inside the Davison AAF zone which may cause you some problems.  This depends on what DJI aircraft you're flying because the geo zone maps change depending on what you're flying.  You didn't tell us what you're flying so you will have to figure it out for yourself.  It's possible you will need to go through a process to get DJI approval to fly in that zone.   It's also possible you won't have any problem at all.  But regarding the DC FRZ, you shouldn't have a problem since you're outside of that DJI zone.  

You say you have FAA approval to fly within the DC FRZ?  I have never heard of such an approval and I live here, but if you do have it, you should know it doesn't necessarily mean you're approved to fly within the Davison AAF area unless it states same.  

AFAIK, flying a drone within the DC FRZ is completely prohibited and completely out of the question per NOTAM FDC 6/2069.  I've never heard of such an approval and I have been paying attention to these things.  If this is not correct or something has changed, I'd love to hear about it.

I would love to see the text of that DC FRZ drone flight FAA approval.  Please.  Could you paste it or type it out here?  That would be so awesome.  Thanks.  

Good luck

I see a market for a tethered flying camera for realtors. Notice, I didn't say drone. Realtors wouldn't need a part 107.  No radio signals. No rules as of yet. Have it fly straight up and with a push of a button, it can go up or down. Yes they would have to do a little walking. A little editing can speed up the flight. Like walking around carrying a balloon. Hey, I have another idea!  LOL  

This topic was recently covered in an episode of a Drone U podcast.  Here is the link to watch it on YouTube:

Sorry - I don't understand the video above.  It appears this guy on the right is referring to rumors and second or third hand info.  

I don't understand how he can discuss flying in the DC FRZ without mentioning NOTAM FDC 6/2069.  After all, that's the document where all these restrictions come from.  I would think it would be a worthwhile mention.  I suspect he's never read it or heard about it.  

Here is the document:  https://www.faa.gov/news/updates ... 6_2069_A0037_16.pdf

If you read about waivers in the document, they are discussing flying in the DC SFRA.  That is not the same as flying in the DC FRZ.  There are no waivers mentioned for flying in the DC FRZ.  The process the guy on the right describes regarding obtaining a waiver and calling a phone number sounds like the process for flying in the DC SFRA.  I believe the guy on the right is confusing DC SFRA and DC FRZ.  

The phone number that the guy displays on the screen is only a few digits away from several phone numbers on the NOTAM.  I suspect the phone number goes to the same office.  And that is the office of the National Capital Region Coordination Center.  It's seems to be implied that people working for different agencies are manning the phones in that office.  According to the NOTAM, 866-598-9820 gets you a TSA employee.  866-598-9822 gets you an FAA employee.  And according to the video above, 866-598-9824 gets you a Secret Service employee.  

In summary, the NOTAM document really goes to a lot of trouble to make it as clear as possible that flying in the DC FRZ is prohibited.   It is stated repeatedly throughout the document - almost in a mantra.  UAS operations are prohibited in the DC FRZ.  Model aircraft operations are prohibited in the DC FRZ.  Etc.  There are no asterisks or footnotes or parentheses or exceptions or waiver options.  

Here is just one example from Section V, B.  UAS OPERATIONS IN THE DC SFRA MUST NOT PENETRATE THE DC FRZ. UAS OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED IN THE DC FRZ.

Etc etc etc

I don't know what else the feds could do to make the point more clear.  

Mark The Droner Posted at 5-9 16:49
Greetings.

I live here and I've been flying a while so I'll give you some input.

Hello,

Sorry for the delayed response. I found out the solution and was just posting the question ahead of time in case I ran into any issues but luckily, I did not. However, I do greatly appreciate everyone’s response and input.

Again, I do appreciate your feedback. I am very familiar and have learned that DJI zones don't align perfectly with the actual DC FRZ zone as well either.

From my experience and conversations with multiple FAA and TSA personnel as well as other ATC operators/managers, I have been told to use the website below when determining airspace for UAS especially when applying for waivers because that is what they use as reference. I highly recommend it.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/weba ... 8e19806ebf6a06754ad

Circling back to my approved DC FRZ waiver…

I was flying a DJI P4P v2 and a M600Pro.

The site I fly is in fact partially inside the DC FRZ as well as fully inside KDAA airspace. Fortunately, the waiver process gets screened by multiple agencies very thoroughly (even KDAA) before being approved so the application more or less kills two birds with one stone as far as seeking approval. Once approved, they also require me to communicate with KDAA to secure permission and notify KDAA and NCRCC (National Capital Region Coordination Center) 24 hours prior to flight, 1 hour prior, 15 min prior, and immediately when I land. For other sites not in military airspace I often have to secure permission from KDCA and NCRCC.

Once I received the approval (and have successfully been able to renew now for 5+ times for this specific site as well as multiple other sites in the 7-15NM ring of DCA VOR) to operate inside the DC FRZ (not the SFRA) I was to simply upload the approval documents to DJI geofence unlock by selecting the custom unlock option. With the waivers at this time only allowed for a maximum duration of 30 days I can enter that in while doing the custom unlock on DJIs website so I don’t have to do it every time I fly there for that 30 day duration. I recommend doing this for the duration of your waiver to save you some time.

Once following the prompts and entering in the area I needed to unlock, with all the details of course, I had to attach my approval documents that were sent to me once approved and click submit. A few minutes later I received a verification email stating they have received my request. Shortly after I was sent another email saying my custom unlock has been approved.

In that email from DJI (mentioned above) it gave me instructions on how to unlock inside the DJI Go 4 app (unlocking license>import to aircraft>sync>tap aircraft page>import to aircraft>toggle on>follow prompts). I might’ve missed a step but if you follow the prompts or read the instructions its easy.

After these steps I can see inside the map in DJI app the circle of the unlocked area I requested to have unlocked. Once finished flying you just have to remember to toggle off that unlocking license before flying again since you will be most likely operating outside of the custom unlock zone or else the aircraft will save that unlock license and say you cannot fly in a no-fly zone until you toggle it back off. It drove me crazy the first time I turned my drone back on to fly in uncontrolled airspace ha ha.

Here is the site you need to use to apply for UAS DC FRZ waivers….

https://waivers.faa.gov/

Great info and excellent detail!  Well done.  I recognize the address on the document as FAA headquarters downtown.  And kudos to DJI for unlocking a multi-agency approved flight within the DC FRZ.  


Thanks for posting!

gabe_riv Posted at 11-4 16:19
Hello,
[view_image]
Sorry for the delayed response. I found out the solution and was just posting the question ahead of time in case I ran into any issues but luckily, I did not. However, I do greatly appreciate everyone’s response and input.

Interesting details,  how long would you say the process took both from the government and DJI?

Mark The Droner Posted at 11-5 03:15
Great info and excellent detail!  Well done.  I recognize the address on the document as FAA headquarters downtown.  And kudos to DJI for unlocking a multi-agency approved flight within the DC FRZ.  

Of course. Thanks for replying to my initial post!

DAFlys Posted at 11-5 03:41
Interesting details,  how long would you say the process took both from the government and DJI?

Gov't - 1-2 days to gather all the required docs and 10 days max once the application was submitted

DJI - almost instantly

gabe_riv Posted at 11-5 15:12
Gov't - 1-2 days to gather all the required docs and 10 days max once the application was submitted

DJI - almost instantly

Thats very respectable for a government approval process.

gabe_riv Posted at 11-5 15:00
Of course. Thanks for replying to my initial post!

Check out the waiver website (https://waivers.faa.gov/) . Once you create an account, if you haven't already,... they just update the main page of the UAS Waiver selection by adding a PDF that lists what is required. I found that to be helpful.

DAFlys Posted at 11-5 23:04
Thats very respectable for a government approval process.

Check out the waiver website (https://waivers.faa.gov/) . Once you create an account, if you haven't already,... they just update the main page of the UAS Waiver selection by adding a PDF that lists what is required. I found that to be helpful.

It is very hard to apply for a waiver. Each application takes about an hour to fill out and the waiver only last for a month.  Waivers are not granted for recreational use, only business and comercial use. If you would like to attempt to apply for a waiver, you can do so at this link. https://waivers.faa.gov/aap/te_pages.p_login
It is a TSA program which is not easy to do. You need to have very specific data about where and when you will be flying and if you are flying within 7 nautical miles of DCA, there is another process to go through and since most of Washington DC is within a 7 mile radius of DCA, you will most likely have to go through that also. Because of this hard process, if you go through it, you will have very little competition from anyone else trying to be a professional drone pilot in DC.