Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Massive problems with "Red LensFlares" in direct sunlight?!
123Next >
6752 91 2016-12-19
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
Matthias80
Captain
Flight distance : 2601499 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

Hi,


is this normal on P4P!?:

P4P direct sunlight

P4P direct sunlight


This is the second pic i made to direct sun, same problem in the first.
Seen it in some other Pictures made with P4P too...:-(
Red led lights on front turned to off, 24mm sunshield on the cam too -no improvement.
Is this a general problem of the lens? I don´t know a lens, that spreads the Sunflares so much.

matthias


2016-12-19
Use props
Telrin
Second Officer
Flight distance : 29767 ft
  • >>>
United Kingdom
Offline

What were your camera settings?
2016-12-19
Use props
marctronixx
Second Officer
Flight distance : 210118 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

The lenses are plastic, not glass. This looks typical of plastic lenses in my opinion.
2016-12-19
Use props
Matthias80
Captain
Flight distance : 2601499 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

First tests, cam on automatic settings 4:3/r+j. My p3a & p4 doesnt have this.
2016-12-19
Use props
Telrin
Second Officer
Flight distance : 29767 ft
  • >>>
United Kingdom
Offline

'Automatic' doesn't help a lot when trying to understand what is going on, can you give us the ISO, shutter speed and aperture used for that image?
2016-12-19
Use props
Matthias80
Captain
Flight distance : 2601499 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

That´s right, but I think the automatic mode should also deliver good (not perfect) results.
Lensflares are normal, but why are these so scattered and so common?

The pic is f8/t160/iso400

more Tests tomorrow...
2016-12-19
Use props
henryk86
lvl.1

Germany
Offline

These lensflares are indeed very disappointing. I bought the p4pro to get better video, but for now I think in many cases the "old" p4 was a way better.
2016-12-19
Use props
PolarPro
Second Officer
Flight distance : 315682 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Those are pretty bad lens flares, is there any dust on the lens?
I have been doing a lot of lens flare testing with our filters AR coatings, and have not seen anything this bad on our P4PRO unit.

You could try putting on a filter/lens with high end AR coatings to reduce lens flare.
(Our P4 Pro filters have really nice coatings).

Let me know if you have any other questions!
-Jeff from PolarPro
2016-12-19
Use props
Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
  • >>>
Australia
Offline

While the pink spots are unusual, shooting straight at the sun with any camera is asking for trouble.
Turn your drone around and shoot with the sun rather than against it.
You'll get much better photos.
2016-12-19
Use props
glowingsplint
lvl.4
Flight distance : 832641 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Its annoying but workable





2016-12-19
Use props
Matthias80
Captain
Flight distance : 2601499 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

@labroides
This is clear to me, but not solves the problem - how should i photograph sunsets with the sun in the back? :-)

@jeff
No, absolutely no dust or stains on the glass, bevor this test i had it with a Hama Lens Cleaner pen cleaned.
I will do more tests with different settings and without the original glass filter.
2016-12-19
Use props
DJI Natalia
Administrator
Flight distance : 318 ft

Offline

Please upload several original pictures directly from SD card to dropbox and do not edit them.
We'll transfer them to our engineers for evaluation.
2016-12-19
Use props
G Davidson
Captain
Flight distance : 263465 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

That's a little troubling - I shoot aerial 360s and by the very nature of the work, usually the sun gets in somewhere!  Still sitting on the fence as to whether I should upgrade to a P4 Pro, 20mpix and some more dynamic range is very much welcomed but this flare would be problematic. It reminds me of back scatter from a sensor microlens array, the colour a result of optical filters/coatings.

I can see the aperture blades in the flare which suggests the aperture was stopped down quite a bit (I see you say it was at F8). I wonder what happens to the flare/artefacts if you shoot at or near maximum aperture (F2.8?)?
2016-12-20
Use props
Telrin
Second Officer
Flight distance : 29767 ft
  • >>>
United Kingdom
Offline

Matthias80 Posted at 2016-12-19 21:53
That´s right, but I think the automatic mode should also deliver good (not perfect) results.
Lensflares are normal, but why are these so scattered and so common?

Thanks for the additional details, Are you trying to get the 'ray' effect with the sunlight?

You'll get this by stopping down the lens as you have done by using F8, you can remove the effect by opening up the aperture and that would also let you reduce the ISO a bit and it would be interesting to see the effect on the aperture blade reflections you are getting.

I've not seen similar photos suffering as badly as your examples and it is a perfectly legitimate technique to stop down to get the 'ray' effect if you want it.

2016-12-20
Use props
QiiFlight
First Officer
Flight distance : 2999472 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

PolarPro Posted at 2016-12-19 17:17
Those are pretty bad lens flares, is there any dust on the lens?
I have been doing a lot of lens flare testing with our filters AR coatings, and have not seen anything this bad on our P4PRO unit.

Different subject, so sorry.
Do you have a good date for when your P4P filters will ship? I ordered 3 days ago and am eagerly awaiting them.
2016-12-20
Use props
Matthias80
Captain
Flight distance : 2601499 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

@DJI Natalia
Thanks for your answer.
Today I made a few pictures with different camera settings in DNG / Raw, unfortunately the same, partly even in the complete picture :-(
I upload the originals to Dropbox in a few hours.

@g davidson
A little? I also create 360° arials, for me the camera of the P4P is so not to use. The best result still delivers aperture 4, respectively, it is hardly noticeable. In all images with a larger or smaller aperture, these lens flares become visible, sometimes even round and in the sky.
2016-12-20
Use props
Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
  • >>>
Australia
Offline

Matthias80 Posted at 2016-12-20 10:00
@labroides
This is clear to me, but not solves the problem - how should i photograph sunsets with the sun in the back? :-)

What you shoot is up to you and your personal taste but shooting staring straight at the sun isn't the way to get good pictures.
2016-12-20
Use props
Matthias80
Captain
Flight distance : 2601499 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

@labroides
I did not want to start a discussion about personal prejudices or imagery.

I am concerned, the direct sun red lensflares are scattered throughout the picture.
Sony rx100 II
IMG_0436.PNG
2016-12-20
Use props
Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
  • >>>
Australia
Offline

Matthias80 Posted at 2016-12-20 23:57
@labroides
I did not want to start a discussion about personal prejudices or imagery.
I am concerned, the direct sun red lensflares are scattered throughout the picture.

I'd be just as concerned about that huge burnt out spot in the centre of the RX100 picture as the red flare.
neither looks good.
2016-12-20
Use props
G Davidson
Captain
Flight distance : 263465 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Matthias80 Posted at 2016-12-20 12:48
@DJI Natalia
Thanks for your answer.
Today I made a few pictures with different camera settings in DNG / Raw, unfortunately the same, partly even in the complete picture :-(

I'm a little more concerned now. Before buying a P4 pro, I'd be really keen to know how the flare/red dots would affect the image in my own workflow. Good to know it's reduced at f/4 but without having a P4Pro myself to experiment with, its hard to know if the effect could be mitigated.

Like yourself, I'd be rather disheartened to have shot some 360s only to discover at home that the image artefacts are too extreme to handle. A little blown out sun is easier to deal with that a grid of red splotches across an image...
2016-12-20
Use props
BeamMeUpScotty
lvl.3
Flight distance : 20446 ft
United States
Offline

DJI Natalia Posted at 2016-12-20 15:08
Please upload several original pictures directly from SD card to dropbox and do not edit them.
We'll transfer them to our engineers for evaluation.

I'm curious if you received the images for evaluation.
2016-12-20
Use props
ImagesByJAS
Second Officer
Flight distance : 286198 ft
United States
Offline

The most typical answer for lens flare is a hood (not adding a filter which can sometimes make flares worse). Shooting into the sun (while I truly understand the aesthetics) is hard unless the sun is very low in the sky.  The only way I've found to successfully work with a bright sun is to limit the exposure on the highlights as best you can while shooting, then bring up the shadows (and perhaps color saturation if needed ) in post processing.. The issue I worry about with a hood is the added weight on the gimbal.
2016-12-20
Use props
MudBear
lvl.1
Flight distance : 2445643 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Go in and cut off front red lights on Drone
2016-12-20
Use props
civilguy
lvl.1
Flight distance : 323950 ft
United States
Offline

Coming from the photography world since I was 10, lens flare is always going to be there.  Just some camera lens are better than other. The Nikons and Canons of the world add special expensive coatings to their lens to help lesson flare. So I'll bet with the low priced lens our low priced DJI Phantom have probably don't have these coatings or not much of.  Also since we have now gone from rolling shutter to a leaf/mechanical shutter this is probably has the biggest effect.  As mentioned early the two fixes is one don't shoot directly into the sun. (duh) and two add a lens shade. Lens shades only really help when the sun is just off screen.
2016-12-20
Use props
samuraiz
lvl.4
Flight distance : 202585 ft
United States
Offline

Possibly the Prosumer phantom drone does not have the needed strengths and flexibility that you need for you photos.  I admit that Fighting flare has been an ongoing issue with medium format and  35mm style lens that cost considerably more 10 years ago than a  phantom 4 pro cost today.    You may want to try a graduated ND filter to balance out your photo since the P4, nor the P4 Pro does not have the dynamic range to adequately expose a balanced photo that also includes the sun.
2016-12-20
Use props
Matthias80
Captain
Flight distance : 2601499 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5addp3dgf2o1wg3/p4p_red_lf.zip?dl=0

selfbuild hood (1grams) is installed, red front lights off.

2016-12-20
Use props
ePetLicensing.c
Second Officer
  • >>>
United States
Offline

This is a direct sun picture, around 1 pm

direct sun

direct sun
2016-12-20
Use props
ImagesByJAS
Second Officer
Flight distance : 286198 ft
United States
Offline

Matthias80 Posted at 2016-12-20 13:11
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5addp3dgf2o1wg3/p4p_red_lf.zip?dl=0

selfbuild hood (1grams) is installed, red front lights off.

What did you make the lens hood out of?  Also, just curious, how low was the cloud deck..  Love when you can just clear the cloud from below...

Jay S.
2016-12-20
Use props
Matthias80
Captain
Flight distance : 2601499 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

@labroides
This is just a screenshot of the Iphone, nothing is burnt out. In the detailed view of the original image you can even see the difference from cloud to the sun behind. The scene shows the situation exactly like this.The camera of the P4P (or the sensor) is yes with the rx100 in comparison mentioned, with this picture against the sun only want show that the rx100 here nothing scatters.

@civilguy
Yes, but i dont know a lens with that the lensflares so very distributed.

@samuraiz
I have the P4, this has actually everything I wish, only the quality of the camera is not enough. After first, impressive tests of the P4P and compare the picture with the rx100 I ordered this. I mainly take photos with the a6000 on a octocopter or the rx100 on a hexacopter, I thought the p4p brings everything to do with this no longer.

@jay
black plastic film.I have adapted a 24mm original design to the diameter of the P4P camera. cloud deck at 65meters ;-)
IMG_0420.JPG
2016-12-20
Use props
Matthias80
Captain
Flight distance : 2601499 ft
  • >>>
Germany
Offline

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BatXTnChx2w
2016-12-21
Use props
DJI-Ken
DJI team
Flight distance : 1515312 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

I agree with Jeff, try a filter.
2016-12-21
Use props
Geebax
Captain
Australia
Offline

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-12-22 10:39
I agree with Jeff, try a filter.

Yes, I also agree, a graduated filter is the only way to eleviate the problem. A sun shade is no use at all unless the sun is out of the frame, and it adds weight to the front of the camera.

Turning off the lights on the aircraft is not going to help in the slightest during daylight hours.

You would even get the same result with a very expensive lens to some degree.

2016-12-21
Use props
FotoSander
lvl.1
Flight distance : 416900 ft
Sweden
Offline

I experienced the same kind of flare on my first flight with the P4P.
DJI_0100.jpg
2016-12-21
Use props
DJI-Ken
DJI team
Flight distance : 1515312 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Geebax Posted at 2016-12-21 17:30
Yes, I also agree, a graduated filter is the only way to eleviate the problem. A sun shade is no use at all unless the sun is out of the frame, and it adds weight to the front of the camera.

Turning off the lights on the aircraft is not going to help in the slightest during daylight hours.

Correct, if the camera is facing the sun, a lens hood doesn't offer any help. And yes, it only adds weight, and also can be a weathervane and give you gimbal errors if your flying in Sport Mode.
2016-12-21
Use props
DJI-Ken
DJI team
Flight distance : 1515312 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

FotoSander Posted at 2016-12-21 18:45
I experienced the same kind of flare on my first flight with the P4P.

See how it is after a filter, personally I think the photo looks kinda cool like it is.
2016-12-21
Use props
FLIDAHO
lvl.4
Flight distance : 2010249 ft
United States
Offline

I don't see this changing regardless of what filter or hood we use. I think we are going to call it a "feature". Too bad. I do believe the aperture will have the greatest impact. My wife was first to spot this "feature".... I said oh that's just a lens flare. Yep, just a huge unusually large and geometrically arranged lens flare that looks kind of cool at times and very annoying at others.
Bummer.
Dallas
2016-12-21
Use props
FotoSander
lvl.1
Flight distance : 416900 ft
Sweden
Offline

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-12-22 02:54
See how it is after a filter, personally I think the photo looks kinda cool like it is.

I don't have any filters and don't want a ND filter as I use it only for still images. The flare effect does look cool sometimes but I would rather not have it when photographing a poroperty that is for sale. Same with those stipes that come from the sun.
DJI_0061.jpg
2016-12-21
Use props
Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
  • >>>
Australia
Offline

Why do people think that a photo staring at the sun is good anyway?
Get the sun out of the frame and your pictures will look a lot better.
2016-12-21
Use props
FotoSander
lvl.1
Flight distance : 416900 ft
Sweden
Offline

Labroides Posted at 2016-12-22 03:46
Why do people think that a photo staring at the sun is good anyway?
Get the sun out of the frame and your pictures will look a lot better.

I do have those photos as well from other angles but sometimes the best angle is towards the sun. With a dslr and a decent lens I don't have any problems with shooting straight towards the bright sun.
2016-12-21
Use props
DJI-Ken
DJI team
Flight distance : 1515312 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

FotoSander Posted at 2016-12-21 19:44
I don't have any filters and don't want a ND filter as I use it only for still images. The flare effect does look cool sometimes but I would rather not have it when photographing a poroperty that is for sale. Same with those stipes that come from the sun.

A filter will help with photos as well as video.
2016-12-21
Use props
123Next >
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules