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Night Flying in the UK
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RedHotPoker
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dronto Posted at 2018-7-20 07:52
Absolutely...look forward to seeing your wonderful work here

I need to get something together for sure.  As we do have many really beautiful areas that need or deserve some exploitation videos.


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2018-7-20
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A CW
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2018-7-20 08:01
Though I walk through the valley of death, I fear no evil.
For I carry a stout Shillelagh.

I love the old canes - some have swords in them and some a little tipple for those cold evening winter strolls lol
2018-7-20
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dronto
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2018-7-20 08:03
I need to get something together for sure.  As we do have many really beautiful areas that need or deserve some exploitation videos.

hahaha...
2018-7-20
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RedHotPoker
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You like? Hahaha

Oh, you will, I know...


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2018-7-20
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RedHotPoker
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A CW Posted at 2018-7-20 08:04
I love the old canes - some have swords in them and some a little tipple for those cold evening winter strolls lol

Yes just a wee sip for the belly, billy... haha

Put a little ‘Irish’ in your step. Chuckles

But a little swashbuckling would be dandy... hehe

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dronto
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2018-7-20 08:56
You like? Hahaha

Oh, you will, I know...


2018-7-20
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RedHotPoker
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If you insist...

E635768D-5C7B-4166-B0FF-F5E66BA760E9.gif


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JokerUK Posted at 2018-7-19 07:07
The reason for maintaining VLOS is for obstacle avoidance. Unless you're flying environment is lit up like a UFO landing site you would not be able to see or maintain separation from said obstacles. So even though it is technically possible to fly at night, you cannot do it safely without the proper knowledge and training, whether for recreational or commercial reasons. Although there are no laws yet restricting recreational drone use after dark, they are coming and there is still the CAA Drone Code that only irresponsible idiots with no respect for others would ignore. The more often that idiots break the rules such as they are, the more strict the laws will be when they are introduced.

""The more often that idiots break the rules such as they are, the more strict the laws will be when they are introduced.""


Then we can expect the rules to get tighter by the minute ,

With Drones so freely available and relatively inexpensive second hand , you wont stop the idiots and round and round it goes.
2018-7-20
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Aardvark
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dayviduk Posted at 2018-7-20 09:40
""The more often that idiots break the rules such as they are, the more strict the laws will be when they are introduced.""

They're getting better defined I think over time rather than stricter, at least in the UK:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/ne ... tion-for-passengers

Edit:- You are correct about the idiots, but at least now the police have more tools (as in laws, not the idiots ;-)   ) to prosecute if needed.
2018-7-20
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A CW
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2018-7-20 08:58
Yes just a wee sip for the belly, billy... haha

Put a little ‘Irish’ in your step. Chuckles

Hahahahaha - best not have both or you may have a nasty accident!
2018-7-20
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Antonio76
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spikeuk76 Posted at 2018-3-19 14:00
This thread shows the amount of confusion in the UK surrounding the rules of flying SUA's, or more accurately Small Unmanned Surveillance Aircraft (SUSA) (0-7 kg). For non-commercial operations, there isnt a great deal of regulation, just three articles in CAP 393 (Air Navigation Order), these being 241, 94 and 95 which basically state you are not to endanger anyone and fly within certain distances which we all know ( C&P'd below direct from the CAA website - http://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/General-guidance/Information-for-the-public-about-drones/)

Go to the Drone Safe website and that is what you'll see along with some pictures, there isnt any other regulation mentioned.

Thanks for clearing a lot of points. However, and playing the Devil's Advocate role,
"(3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct,
unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in
relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the
purpose of avoiding collisions."
It might be argued that attaching any kind of lights -apart from those already on the aircrafts- in order to see the aircraft at night is breaking the rule of maintaining **unaided** visual contact with the aircraft... What do you think?
2018-7-20
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RedHotPoker
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Lume Cubes Are a part of the air craft, when the mounts are attached.

What if DJI sold their own bright forward looking LED’s, permanantly attached, would it make any difference, and why!?

Adding better visibility improves my flights on both sides of the coin.
I can better visually stay in line of contact with my drone, even if I have to look down at my iPad screen, sometimes only momentarily.., ;-)
I can look back up and notice where my drone is right away, it’s good value.


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2018-7-20
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Bashy
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Antonio76 Posted at 2018-7-20 11:51
Thanks for clearing a lot of points. However, and playing the Devil's Advocate role,
"(3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct,
unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in

Unaided is referring to binoculars and telescopes etc, not lighting aids of which would be welcomed by the CAA as they can enhance the visuals for a manned flight pilot
2018-7-20
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Manxmann
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Nigel_ Posted at 2018-3-18 13:42
Jurassic Coast, hmm, should have taken the drone:

https://tbqyna.bl3302.livefilestore.com/y4m_HLzuU7YvT6_h97V5zmW4a3JVvNKnbZyO59aIc1Cik-0gfRdLZUbYQHVAG5t_hy1sdVw3OAZXtAb4CVjGONI2qUfGDsmVmOGiWL1VJnbDyu1G4Oh1lx0f4wPd_FBqkVBFSmAo3iH7Ky_hbGdBFh-rNdDAhpe5VI2o1F1n_1xFn_MvpKRyhyLmRJRhRBZh48yw0sZ9Ijr2mIhPlnLRbpaDQ?width=1152&height=864&cropmode=none[/img]

What a beautiful shot - well done !
2018-7-21
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Antonio76
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Bashy Posted at 2018-7-20 20:17
Unaided is referring to binoculars and telescopes etc, not lighting aids of which would be welcomed by the CAA as they can enhance the visuals for a manned flight pilot

Does the CAA actually specify that? (I agree with you, but -as I said- I'm acting as the Devil's Advocate...)
2018-7-21
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Nigel_
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Antonio76 Posted at 2018-7-21 01:57
Does the CAA actually specify that? (I agree with you, but -as I said- I'm acting as the Devil's Advocate...)

I think it is irrelevant since adding lights to the drone does not allow you to
"monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures" when those "persons, vehicles, vessels and structures" are not illuminated by lights.

The basic question is, can you make the flight safely, and if you can't see everything then the answer is no.
2018-7-21
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Bashy
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Surely using the correct lights enable you to see the orientation,

"monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures"

Where i fly, its not applicable other than the "other aircraft"  and imo, at night, you would see their strobes well before you would see the craft during daylight.

This also bring brings me back to an old argument i had once, where in the drone code does it tell people to look up further important information on the CAA website, it does not, the  CAA are trying to keep it as a hobby for hobbyists. We are given a very simple set of rules/laws. If no flying at night was applicable to hobbyists, it would state, i mean, come one, it is a major point, its not like its something they would have forgot to put in the code, at the end of the day, it is not illegal for hobbyists to fly at night, how they go about it might be though, but in general, it is not illegal for UK hobbyists.

Antionio, yes, the CAA does specify that
2018-7-21
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RedHotPoker
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Nigel_ Posted at 2018-7-21 04:31
I think it is irrelevant since adding lights to the drone does not allow you to
"monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures" when those "persons, vehicles, vessels and structures" are not illuminated by lights.

We have ou4 height limits.
So who or what are you trying to avoid?

Our restriction is 400’, so manned aircraft must fly a above that height, unlesss taking off or landing.

We can’t fly near airports or close to hospitals with helicopter landing pads... without permission. ;-)

Still say Lume Cubes improve my flights for both parties, me and those who you are trying to protect.


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2018-7-21
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Wickerman123
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Can't tell how old the latest posts are (what is that date format??) but to chime in, night flying in the UK is a no go. If you actually read section 94 of the ANO it specifies that you need to be able to see the drone - I guess the definition of "aid" is debatable but I think it's pretty logical that a strobe would count as a visual aid.
2018-11-5
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Aardvark
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Wickerman123 Posted at 11-5 15:04
Can't tell how old the latest posts are (what is that date format??) but to chime in, night flying in the UK is a no go. If you actually read section 94 of the ANO it specifies that you need to be able to see the drone - I guess the definition of "aid" is debatable but I think it's pretty logical that a strobe would count as a visual aid.

Format is YY-MM-DD (and time), and if no year shown then is this year, so last post to yours was 21st July 2018.

I would agree with your interpretation. Apart from the fact that if flying away from congested areas you're not likely to see much on screen.
2018-11-5
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Bashy
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I must disagree here, visual aid is referring to binoculars for example, putting strobes onto you drone to know its attitude, is that the word? can only be welcomed by the CAA, now, lets just say you was right, ya not though, but for arguments sake lets say you are (but ya not) :p there is nothing in the rules, guidelines or law that states that hobbyists cannot fly at night, even without the added strobes, the built in strobes wouldnt be classed as a visual aid, but going by your interpretation they are.
2018-11-5
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Aerial-Image
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The built in LED are more than enough but you need to limit the distance to less than 500m ( maybe less than 250m for comfort/orientation purposes if you have a app issue and you loose the display feed you need to have a back-up plan to get back manually in a problem.
2018-11-6
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Aardvark
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Bashy Posted at 11-5 20:45
I must disagree here, visual aid is referring to binoculars for example, putting strobes onto you drone to know its attitude, is that the word? can only be welcomed by the CAA, now, lets just say you was right, ya not though, but for arguments sake lets say you are (but ya not) :p there is nothing in the rules, guidelines or law that states that hobbyists cannot fly at night, even without the added strobes, the built in strobes wouldnt be classed as a visual aid, but going by your interpretation they are.

"there is nothing in the rules, guidelines or law that states that hobbyists cannot fly at night,"

Not yet, and it's probably best not to give those who make the rules a reason to write it into law as they have done with the altitude & airport limitations.

What advantage is there flying at night that could not be better done during the day ? After all it's about photographic or video imaging which usually doesn't work well when it's dark.
2018-11-6
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Aerial-Image
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Its that time of year - Fireworks are not that great in the day...
2018-11-6
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Bashy
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Most definitely fireworks, not for me mind, i cant due to my dogs being  poop scared of them so i cannot leave them, i wouldnt even if they wernt scared, just not right. Then theres also light painting and other shots that you can get that you never could at night.... Plus, i am not saying people should, i am saying that its perfectly legal and adding strobe would only enhance safety and is not what the ano is referring to when they visual aids.
2018-11-6
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mrbill
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Antonio76 Posted at 7-20 11:51
Thanks for clearing a lot of points. However, and playing the Devil's Advocate role,
"(3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct,
unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in

The CAA regard the use of binoculars (for instance) as a visual aid. Night lights are not
2018-11-7
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Wickerman123
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Bashy Posted at 11-5 20:45
I must disagree here, visual aid is referring to binoculars for example, putting strobes onto you drone to know its attitude, is that the word? can only be welcomed by the CAA, now, lets just say you was right, ya not though, but for arguments sake lets say you are (but ya not) :p there is nothing in the rules, guidelines or law that states that hobbyists cannot fly at night, even without the added strobes, the built in strobes wouldnt be classed as a visual aid, but going by your interpretation they are.

Can you point out where I'm wrong then?

The ANO specifically states you need to see the drone unaided and it doesn't specify at all what an aid is - it doesn't state that flying at night is illegal but it doesn't suggest that it's okay either.

If you chuck a Mavic up in the air at night, turn the lights off and fly more than 100m away, you're probably going to have a hard time seeing it, even with light pollution. (You're probably breaking the 150m congested area rule if you're inside a pocket of air pollution though.)

If there's no air pollution and you're out in the middle of nowhere, you'd likely only be able to see it if the moon is shining bright - which is rare in the UK, especially around this time of year.
2018-11-7
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Bashy
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Within the Visual Line Of Sight (VLOS) of the person flying the aircraft
This means that the aircraft must be able to be clearly seen by the person flying it at all times when it is airborne.  By doing this, the person flying the aircraft is able to monitor its flight path and so manoeuvre it clear of anything that it may collide with.  While corrective spectacles can be used to look at the aircraft, the use of binoculars, telescopes, or any other image enhancing devices are not permitted.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/ ... d-aircraft-systems/


Who, in their right mind, would want to turn off the back lights, front yes if doing video or image, but i believe thats auto anyway but the backs??? you would be wanting to add extra strobes (back legs) and top, like i said, the CAA would only welcome this as you are improving safety,  you would have gotten the answer quicker had you googled it ;)  anything you are unsure of, they are more than happy to help you if you ring them up or email them ;)
2018-11-7
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Manxmann
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PhantomPhil Posted at 2017-1-31 16:43
https://www.bfgc.co.uk/VFR_Guide.pdf

Introduction, Paragraph 6.

Check Night VMC ??
2018-11-8
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SPIKE_151
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This article is drone police click bait
2018-11-14
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Bashy
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SPIKE_151 Posted at 11-14 05:10
This article is drone police click bait

I wouldnt say that as it was legitimate question, thats not click bait to me,  had he asked, "i  flew 2000m last night, is that legal" now thats got drone police written all over it, i would have replied there too.
2018-11-14
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Nigel_ Posted at 3-18 13:42
Jurassic Coast, hmm, should have taken the drone:

https://tbqyna.bl3302.livefilestore.com/y4m_HLzuU7YvT6_h97V5zmW4a3JVvNKnbZyO59aIc1Cik-0gfRdLZUbYQHVAG5t_hy1sdVw3OAZXtAb4CVjGONI2qUfGDsmVmOGiWL1VJnbDyu1G4Oh1lx0f4wPd_FBqkVBFSmAo3iH7Ky_hbGdBFh-rNdDAhpe5VI2o1F1n_1xFn_MvpKRyhyLmRJRhRBZh48yw0sZ9Ijr2mIhPlnLRbpaDQ?width=1152&height=864&cropmode=none[/img]

great shot !
2018-12-31
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djiuser_NNNMWURWoTve
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jonscott Posted at 2016-12-24 16:29
Yes that is correct. You need a PFCO from the CAA with a night rating to legally fly at night. Night is classified as 30 mins after and 30 mins before sunset/sunrise.

Bit late to the party but this can be found worded as

'All UAS operations will be undertaken under VLOS and during daytime (i.e. the period extending from
30 mins before sunrise to 30 mins after sunset, as determined at surface level, in line with CAP 393)'

Also reference CAA OSR 1277

Hope that helps... recently past PfCO so its still fresh in the memory :-)
2019-5-10
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Bashy
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djiuser_NNNMWURWoTve Posted at 5-10 00:43
Bit late to the party but this can be found worded as

'All UAS operations will be undertaken under VLOS and during daytime (i.e. the period extending from

Isnt that for PfCO? not hobbyist...
2019-5-10
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djiuser_NNNMWURWoTve
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Bashy Posted at 5-10 18:38
Isnt that for PfCO? not hobbyist...

Daylight hours are for hobby flyers, PfCO holders can fly anytime as long as its applied for, in the past it had to be request now if in operations manual it is granted automaticly.
2019-5-16
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Bashy
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djiuser_NNNMWURWoTve Posted at 5-16 03:30
Daylight hours are for hobby flyers, PfCO holders can fly anytime as long as its applied for, in the past it had to be request now if in operations manual it is granted automaticly.

Incorrect, yes PfCO can apply for a waiver, but hobbyist can fly when they like, unless of course, you can show me where it says hobbyists cannot fly at night?
2019-5-16
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djiuser_NNNMWURWoTve
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Bashy Posted at 5-16 19:07
Incorrect, yes PfCO can apply for a waiver, but hobbyist can fly when they like, unless of course, you can show me where it says hobbyists cannot fly at night?

Its stated in the ANO if you would like to find it 'in print',  its rather a long document so search through it would be easier... Blue skies as they say..
2019-5-20
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Bashy
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djiuser_NNNMWURWoTve Posted at 5-20 09:45
Its stated in the ANO if you would like to find it 'in print',  its rather a long document so search through it would be easier... Blue skies as they say..

Yes, for PfCO, not for hobbyist ;) I do not need to go looking for something that is not there, hence i ask you to prove it to us here where it states this?
2019-5-20
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PETER321
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Like the Clockwork ref

As was filmed local to me

Stanley lived down the road.
2020-4-30
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Chris1603
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Hi - is it still the case that we can fly our drones at night? I've seen conflicting information about this, and the CAA site is not clear. Farnborough Council for example say it's illegal.
2020-5-23
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