I rarely get excited for Christmas, but my wife surprised me with a P4 and it made my day (for about two hours that is). As I unboxed it I was super impressed by the design and attention to detail, and I got even more excited. That is until I went to charge the batteries. The battery that came with the unit would not charge at all. No lights came on when I plugged it in; just absolute nothingness. Almost certain I was doing something wrong, I trolled Google and watched about two hours of YouTube videos and read numerous DJI forums. It was there I learned about the atrocious battery problems this company has with its drones, including the P4 in particular. Undeterred, I rushed to Costco the next day to exchange my dud, and was disappointed again to learn that Costco didn't have anymore units. So I had to wait two days for it to arrive via the mail. I unboxed it and was absolutely convinced I couldn't possibly get two bad batteries in a row. Sure enough, my new battery is a dud as well. This one actually turns on, but it won't charge. The light furthest to the left blinks a few times and then it simply shuts off. No power whatsoever, and that didn't change despite downloading the new firmware through the controller and running through a litany of other tests I found on the Web.

Still undeterred and desperate to fly my new toy, I spent more valuable time today searching for answers but found none. What I did find was hundreds of reviews on Amazon, Costco, and other dealers' sites confirming that the battery problem is systemic and DJI has done nothing about it (other than deny it and blame their poor customers). For those customers who were lucky enough to get decent batteries, they end up with $1000 paper weights after the drone drops from the sky or flies away on its own. I feel sorry for the buyers who actually bought from DJI, which apparently has horrible customer service in addition to designing faulty drones, and refuses to replace drones or accept returns absent an act of Congress. Thankfully I bought through Costco and Amazon and they have given me no trouble returning this junk.

It's rare I spend over $1000 dollars on stuff like this, but I was willing to give it a go given the potential of this machine. NEVER AGAIN WILL I MAKE THAT MISTAKE WITH THIS COMPANY. Here's a bit of advice: if you bought this recently from any company with a decent return policy, get rid of this machine as quickly as you can. Take some of the money and take your buddies out for a few beers.

Thanks for that useful information.
You've obviously done your homework and know lots about the subject.
I'm glad I didn't buy one before I read your post.

But there's one little question that puzzles me.
How is it that DJI somehow has a market share in ready to fly drones that is significantly more than 70%?
One would think that would be impossible if what you say is true.

Labroides Posted at 2016-12-28 23:40
Thanks for that useful information.
You've obviously done your homework and know lots about the subject.
I'm glad I didn't buy one before I read your post.

Hello First Officer,

I'm certainly no expert on this market, but I suspect DJI currently has a monopoly share for the same reasons other companies have achieved monopolies in other arenas: the barriers to entry are high and there are few comparable competitors that have the infrastructure or experience to succeed (at least for now while the market is small and relatively new). Go Pro is a great example. They released their first generation drone this year and it was a disaster. I believe they issued a full recall in November if I'm not mistaken. DJI, on the other hand, has spearheaded a lot of innovation in this market and has the design and engineering teams required to get products to market. Their market share will change as other companies see the value of investing in drones and play catch up.

Please don't get me wrong. Based on my research, I understand that DJI has some great products (including the P3). Indeed, a lot of reviews I read suggested that the handful of features added to the P4 aren't worth the extra money, and that you should go with the P3 instead. I was tempted to do so, but my experience with DJI has been so negative that I'm not interested anymore. If you do a quick search for "DJI" and "customer service issues" you will find lots of reputable tech publications addressing this issue about the company.

Again, my experience is limited to the P4, and my beef with DJI relates to that product alone. DJI simply blames the customer when issues arise with the drone and refuses to acknowledge they have major bugs to work out . I got lucky buying my drone through dealers that are willing to accept my returns without question. If I had to eat the cost of DJI's bad batteries (and shipping costs to return the product) like many other customers I've read about, I would be even more upset. Thankfully I didn't make that mistake.

I hope you have a better experience.

Labroides Posted at 2016-12-29 16:40
Thanks for that useful information.
You've obviously done your homework and know lots about the subject.
I'm glad I didn't buy one before I read your post.

Hey, the guy is frustrated and venting. Shame he decided to put it to text here though. I've experienced the battery problem first hand. Although it was sorted via their DOA policy, there was never an explanation. And there Are numerous references to the battery issue which does suggest it is widespread - with no advice from DJI.

Regardless of their poor 'known fault' communication, I'm a believer in the DJI product - despite the negative you read here. Let's face it - there's little incentive to post Good stories. After the battery issue with my P4, it's flown flawlessly and I have some great video to show for it. My P4P worked out of the box, with none of the issues I've read about here either. I'm still learning how to use the Pro properly (thanks Airspace_media for your videos), and I'm taking it down to the South Coast of Australia to get more great video.

I, for one, am happy that I parted with my hard-earned cash for these products. Anything this high-tech, at this price-point, may well have some issues. Just enjoy the ride when it comes together...
Mgates, my only advice to you is persist. It is a truly great product which should now have the teething issues sorted. But the batteries may still be hit-and-miss - when it's a hit, it's good.

Mgates Posted at 2016-12-29 17:26
Hello First Officer,

I'm certainly no expert on this market, but I suspect DJI currently has a monopoly share for the same reasons other companies have achieved monopolies in other arenas: the barriers to entry are high and there are few comparable competitors that have the infrastructure or experience to succeed (at least for now while the market is small and relatively new). Go Pro is a great example. They released their first generation drone this year and it was a disaster. I believe they issued a full recall in November if I'm not mistaken. DJI, on the other hand, has spearheaded a lot of innovation in this market and has the design and engineering teams required to get products to market. Their market share will change as other companies see the value of investing in drones and play catch up.

I'll help you with an alternative perspective.
If you search online you'll find complaints about anything and everything.
If you focus on the complaints you completely miss out on the real story.
Also many complaints are because it's a sophisticated tech product that may be beyond the abilities of some users but it's always easier to blame the product rather than admitting they didn't read the manual.  But this won't come out in the complaint.
When you sell to 70+% of the market, you get 70+% of the complaints and 70+% of the customers that don't read manuals.

DJI have a huge market share and all the other manufacturers share a small slice of the pie because DJI produces products that are way, way ahead of anything else available.
Their drones are now 2 generations ahead of the nearest "competition".
Rather than concentrating on complaints from what is a very tiny fraction of DJI buyers, consider how many users there are out there that aren't making complaints.
This is what you've completely missed.

The other thing you missed out on was the opportunity to ask people for help on this forum. It is quite possible you did not have a dead battery but without asking or interacting with other forum members, you will never find out. The P4 is an awesome machine, and sadly, you will never experience it.

Labroides Posted at 2016-12-29 14:36
I'll help you with an alternative perspective.
If you search online you'll find complaints about anything and everything.
If you focus on the complaints you completely miss out on the real story.

Labroides You are spot on in my book!
I know what its like to have a serious issue with your brand new expensive drone. My gimbal was stuck down 4 days after purchase with DJI Phantom 4 Pro. I knew venting wasnt going to get me anywhere, use your time wisely and search for solutions and troubleshoot. I came from Walkera drones and seriously you think there is problems with the Phantom you have never owned a Walkera. There was a "Feature" where if you returned the Left joystick too quickly back to neutral - the drone would flip over and crash (Walkera 250 flip of death) Keep in mind this was 75% of the cost of DJI Phantom and one day it just fell out of the sky. I see people complaining about a slightly off horizon as if that is a reason not to purchase.. the only person who will miss out is you

airspace_media Posted at 2016-12-29 17:54
Labroides  You are spot on in my book!
I know what its like to have a serious issue with your brand new expensive drone. My gimbal was stuck down 4 days after purchase with DJI Phantom 4 Pro. I knew venting wasnt going to get me anywhere, use your time wisely and search for solutions and troubleshoot. I came from Walkera drones and seriously you think there is problems with the Phantom you have never owned a Walkera. There was a "Feature" where if you returned the Left joystick too quickly back to neutral - the drone would flip over and crash (Walkera 250 flip of death) Keep in mind this was 75% of the cost of DJI Phantom and one day it just fell out of the sky. I see people complaining about a slightly off horizon as if that is a reason not to purchase.. the only person who will miss out is you

Agreed (as in my post above), but we need more patience when someone hits a wall. And thanks for the reminder - I've adjusted the acknowledgement in my post above. Credit where credit is due - I'm lov'n your Pro videos. Very informative where they're on features I've not yet been game enough to use.

We feel very sorry that your're experiencing the difficulties and we understand how frustrated it must be.
Thanks for your feedback, since they're brand new and you can get the replacement.
We concern much about your experience and keep improving our service, thanks again for your support.

Punchbuggy Posted at 2016-12-29 15:02
Agreed (as in my post above), but we need more patience when someone hits a wall. And thanks for the reminder - I've adjusted the acknowledgement in my post above. Credit where credit is due - I'm lov'n your Pro videos. Very informative where they're on features I've not yet been game enough to use.

Mate! too kind, didnt even notice any mention of my videos haha! You didnt have to but thank you. Feel free to share the knowledge however you feel free My channel is about breaking down this discourse between experts and beginners and ultimately raise the collective standard of drone filming/editing!

Labroides Posted at 2016-12-29 00:36
I'll help you with an alternative perspective.
If you search online you'll find complaints about anything and everything.
If you focus on the complaints you completely miss out on the real story.

What in the manual would you like me to read? I explained the issue but I don't see any reference to pages in the manual on how to fix it. A faulty battery is a faulty battery; two faulty batteries in two machines is a failure rate no reputable company would send to market. It's that simple.

Thanks for the feedback though. I'm sure there are lots of people out there that can't read manuals that will keep trying new batteries until they find one that works.

Labroides Posted at 2016-12-28 22:36
I'll help you with an alternative perspective.
If you search online you'll find complaints about anything and everything.
If you focus on the complaints you completely miss out on the real story.

Nicely worded and very true to point of this subject.
The OP is definitely had some bad luck with his new DJI products. Unfortunately some things happen with high tech equipment. If he was in a local area with some other pilots maybe they could help get it going.  Most of us that fly, are more than happy to help others.....
Maybe he can try this ....  by finding a local RC Club that has a local drone expert.

All the best
Rich

mgates,
sorry for your bad experiences and this is definitely not the norm.  

Most of us that fly, are more than happy to help others.....
Maybe he can try this ....  by finding a local RC Club that has a local drone expert. He or she can assess the problem and give you some help. You said you bought it from Costco and they have a great return policy but they do have the knowledge like a local hobby shop or dealer would. I guess if you still want to hang in there ... you could also try a local hobby shop for help

All the best
Rich

Punchbuggy Posted at 2016-12-29 00:35
Hey, the guy is frustrated and venting. Shame he decided to put it to text here though. I've experienced the battery problem first hand. Although it was sorted via their DOA policy, there was never an explanation. And there Are numerous references to the battery issue which does suggest it is widespread - with no advice from DJI.

Regardless of their poor 'known fault' communication, I'm a believer in the DJI product - despite the negative you read here. Let's face it - there's little incentive to post Good stories. After the battery issue with my P4, it's flown flawlessly and I have some great video to show for it. My P4P worked out of the box, with none of the issues I've read about here either. I'm still learning how to use the Pro properly (thanks Airspace_media for your videos), and I'm taking it down to the South Coast of Australia to get more great video.

Thanks, Punchbuggy. Appreciate the feedback. I've been looking at drones for a long time before I finally convinced my wife this was the right company, which is probably adding to my disappointment. I've tried to get feedback to troubleshoot the problem, but I've been told twice now to simply return the product, which I did. If there was a "user manual" or other fix to the issue I'm sure they would have pointed me to it. Who knows, maybe the third time will be the charm.

I've seen the Phantom videos on Youtube and they are nothing short of spectacular. Hopefully I will be flying up there with you guys one day, even if not with a Phantom.

Ah well, consider the source.  "Rant first, ask questions later"

What else can you expect, considering the vast expanse of the internet, from someone that can't find a royalty free image to use as a avatar that doesn't have an obvious "Bigstock" copyright watermark.

Mgates Posted at 2016-12-29 01:16
What in the manual would you like me to read? I explained the issue but I don't see any reference to pages in the manual on how to fix it. A faulty battery is a faulty battery; two faulty batteries in two machines is a failure rate no reputable company would send to market. It's that simple.

Thanks for the feedback though. I'm sure there are lots of people out there that can't read manuals that will keep trying new batteries until they find one that works.

I also checked this forum and there are dozens of complaints about the batteries, and that's just on the first two pages of posts. Maybe none of those guys read the manual either. Or, maybe DJI produced a bad batch of batteries and hasn't recalled them yet. Hmm.

Gil Posted at 2016-12-29 01:53
Ah well, consider the source.  "Rant first, ask questions later"

What else can you expect, considering the vast expanse of the internet, from someone that can't find a royalty free image to use as a avatar that doesn't have an obvious "Bigstock" copyright watermark.

What questions should I ask that haven't been asked on this forum? You seem like a great source, so why don't you enlighten us.

OP: Did you plug the battery into the unit and turn the Quad on?

I've had issues where I would plug the battery into the charger (particularly overly drained ones) and the lights don't come on and blink in a charging state until (when plugged into the charger) I hit the battery's power button.  I find it very suspect you had two new quads with the same issue.  DJI is not perfect (heaven knows I've had a few quirky issues from the hardware) but your experience is atypical.  I agree with the other posters that your approach of

READY
FIRE
AIM
CHECK TARGET

Is not a great attitude for a budding UAV/S pilot.   

Mgates Posted at 2016-12-29 18:56
I also checked this forum and there are dozens of complaints about the batteries, and that's just on the first two pages of posts. Maybe none of those guys read the manual either. Or, maybe DJI produced a bad batch of batteries and hasn't recalled them yet. Hmm.

Yes, and there are.

Team, can we stop this bashing. The guy just vented (and have you noted that you can't post when you say 'pi&&ed off'?) when he's tried twice with a bad battery - and only a bad battery. I've been there, but my experience after that was good. Thanks EEHobbies in Australia.

Guys, with the dud battery issue (plug it in and nothing happens, even after 24 hours), no amount of help here would have provided a different outcome. He's returned it a couple of times - it was the right course, but needed a third time. How rare is that?

Mgates, the DJI Phantom 4  and 4 Pro are the best currently at this price point (now cheaper that the Pro is out). Again, my advice is to persist. PM me for a video which a rank amateur did with it which may change your mind - I'd have it up here if it wasn't for the music I put to it...

Labroides Posted at 2016-12-29 14:36
I'll help you with an alternative perspective.
If you search online you'll find complaints about anything and everything.
If you focus on the complaints you completely miss out on the real story.

Well said...

Mgates Posted at 2016-12-28 23:58
What questions should I ask that haven't been asked on this forum? You seem like a great source, so why don't you enlighten us.

You could have started with "Can someone help me?" rather than a blanket comdemnation.  Tends to put people more in a mood to offer help.

And while I do have six different models of Phantom and I try to offer my experience and observations, in your case I can't help -- I don't have a P4.

Mgates Posted at 2016-12-28 23:16
What in the manual would you like me to read? I explained the issue but I don't see any reference to pages in the manual on how to fix it. A faulty battery is a faulty battery; two faulty batteries in two machines is a failure rate no reputable company would send to market. It's that simple.

Thanks for the feedback though. I'm sure there are lots of people out there that can't read manuals that will keep trying new batteries until they find one that works.

Aloha gates,

     OK, you had a problem.  Then you had a similar problem.  Is that curious to you?  I mean how could that happen?  Well, let me tell you.

     There may very well have been nothing at all wrong with your batteries.  The problem was that these batteries are a step up in the DJI manufacturing regimen.  They have a different charging scenario in the software than earlier batteries.  I have three P4 batteries and they can drain very fast after three days because the default setting has the drain start after three days.  

     Now, all it takes is for the batteries to be stored waiting for sale for two weeks (or a few weeks more likely) and the battery drains so low that - now get this - the lights do not come on until after as much as a half hour of charging.  May I suggest that your first battery was well drained to the point that there were no lights at all.  Your second battery had more charge on it so it made an attempt at the pre-charge test and it blinked once as you noted, then no lights like the first one.  

     The reason I learned that this "no lights" condition existed is from reading posts on the Forum.  Did you post the situation you saw as a problem to the Forum or is this just the first time.  Was your first thread to complain that you do not know how to charge DJI batteries so you turned them back in.  Because as far as I can tell, this thread is to complain that you did not know how to charge your new batteries and to complain that you did not ask the Forum for help with this very curious problem.

     OK, well we all screw up, you can ask Labroides and Geebax about me, but we get back up and learn how to fly, service and maintain our equipment.  You gave up too easy and failed to ask for help about a very curious problem.  Start over.  Get those same batteries back and charge them!  Then go have the time of your life flying your P4 because I have one and I fly it regularly.  What a blast!

Aloha and Drone On!

Ty-Rone Posted at 2016-12-29 00:06
OP: Did you plug the battery into the unit and turn the Quad on?

I've had issues where I would plug the battery into the charger (particularly overly drained ones) and the lights don't come on and blink in a charging state until (when plugged into the charger) I hit the battery's power button.  I find it very suspect you had two new quads with the same issue.  DJI is not perfect (heaven knows I've had a few quirky issues from the hardware) but your experience is atypical.  I agree with the other posters that your approach of

I'm not sure where you got the impression about shooting first and looking after the fact. I've spent almost a week troubleshooting this issue, including multiple communications with DJI and other resources. I've now concluded that they produced a bad batch of batteries. When something is bad enough to eventually get to a recall level, getting two bad batteries back-to-back would not be terribly suspect. Thanks for the input though.

dont quote  me but i heard places like those sell rejects or referbs like phones. I've had the best of luck when I order it from my phone company but the few that I bought at a retail store had issues maybe just have DJI replace it and send you another

Mgates Posted at 2016-12-29 00:34
I'm not sure where you got the impression about shooting first and looking after the fact. I've spent almost a week troubleshooting this issue, including multiple communications with DJI and other resources. I've now concluded that they produced a bad batch of batteries. When something is bad enough to eventually get to a recall level, getting two bad batteries back-to-back would not be terribly suspect. Thanks for the input though.

So that's a 'no, I didn't let the batteries charge; I simply didn't see an indicator light come on and returned my UAS'?

Mgates Posted at 2016-12-28 22:26
Hello First Officer,

I'm certainly no expert on this market, but I suspect DJI currently has a monopoly share for the same reasons other companies have achieved monopolies in other arenas: the barriers to entry are high and there are few comparable competitors that have the infrastructure or experience to succeed (at least for now while the market is small and relatively new). Go Pro is a great example. They released their first generation drone this year and it was a disaster. I believe they issued a full recall in November if I'm not mistaken. DJI, on the other hand, has spearheaded a lot of innovation in this market and has the design and engineering teams required to get products to market. Their market share will change as other companies see the value of investing in drones and play catch up.

So by your logic if once you met one bad tomato you shouldn't eat tomatoes at all in your life... Especially after bad service at garden bed)))

DJI is not ideal but I think it is not correct to compare DJI with any other drone company. Walkera? Sure? GoPro have great cameras only. Their drone is not so good as DJI.
DJI's drones are the best now. Of course they have some problems but thousands of people fly and happy.

Guys the guy is just venting op i suggest giving it another shot it is a great drone. It sucks u got two duds but things happen. Not enough reason to ditch dji tho! Their products are dope!

I think the P4 is a great drone but I do find myself worrying about the batteries. I bought a brand new & sealed P4 from a large UK chain and 2 of the 3 batteries were DOA. I returned them and one of the exchange batteries was also DOA. So that means 3 out 4 brand new batteries were DOA before I even flew the drone. I now have 3 functioning batteries but find myself checking them every few days to ensure they don't discharge too low.

If lipo batteries are stored too long without recharging, a deep discharge takes place. Normal chargers will stop working. This could be a reason for the many defective batteries.

I love my p3s. Less than $400 tons of fun! I will upgrade to p3p in spring.

I've been building and flying RC helicopters and multirotor craft for about 4 years now, including a couple with Naza flight controllers, and their great performance is what first got me interested in DJI products.  I've used other flight controllers from different companies and gotten good results, but never the rock solid performance the Naza produces, especially with position hold through the GPS.  I've done a far amount of aerial video with a homemade hexacopter, and the results are pretty good.  Or at least I thought they were until I got a chance to fly and video with a DJI Phantom 2 Vision+, and I was blown away by the quality of the video compared to what I had been able to do.  So, when I decided to try make a little money from my hobby, right after I got my UAV pilot's license, I bought a P4.  As many others have said, it is a wonderful and very capable machine that is easy to use and very easy to fly, especially if you come from the world of helicopters and DIY multirotors.  The video the P4 produces is exceptional and salable, too.  Is DJI perfect? Of course not, but when I was deciding on which machine to buy, all of the top contenders were DJI--they're just that much ahead of the pack at this point in my opinion.  I'm also glad to see this good forum, with good advice and helpful information.  

I don't have a P4, but a P3A.  If I plug the charger into a battery that is full or only slightly discharged, no battery lights come on just as the OP described for the first battery.  In order to top off a slightly discharged battery, it is necessary to turn the battery on.  This is described in the P3A manual: "If the battery level is above 95%, turn on the battery before charging."  So I wonder if the OP's first battery might have been almost fully charged as delivered.  Of course, this wouldn't explain the second battery where one light would blink.

Gil Posted at 2016-12-29 00:29
You could have started with "Can someone help me?" rather than a blanket comdemnation.  Tends to put people more in a mood to offer help.

And while I do have six different models of Phantom and I try to offer my experience and observations, in your case I can't help -- I don't have a P4.

Since we're on the subject of batteries, (and since the OP has toppled his king--[Chess: resigned]), I'd like to ask a question of the experienced DJI Phantom flyers (although it really applies to all brands of LiPo batteries, er, and all levels of pilots):

Have any of you experienced a battery fire, during flying, during charging, during storage, etc? One that didn't involve user error (i.e. the poster a few weeks back that tossed his salt-water-soaked battery in his car).

Adam Savage (of Mythbusters) posted a video a while back, extolling the regular use of a LiPo firebag, to be used for safely storing, and transporting LiPo batteries. This bag was designed to contain any fire that could erupt from a failing/faulty LiPo battery. Is this overkill?

Or as a perfectly good battery ages, does this potential for fire become a real possibility?

Thanks.

Keep Smiling,

Augustus

I got the 3 battery kit from Amazon and 2 of those where bad, I was so disappointed.  Took about 3 weeks to get it straight so more disappointment.  Now I am flying and my disappointment has gone away.  I know there are alot of stories on this forum about bad batteries but think of it this way.  How many drones have been sold by DJI that did not have bad batteries.  That most post on this forum are from people who are having problems.  I would think that you never hear from people that are happy with there drones and have no reason to make a post.  I am.  

Satstream Posted at 2016-12-29 03:54
If lipo batteries are stored too long without recharging, a deep discharge takes place. Normal chargers will stop working. This could be a reason for the many defective batteries.

+1, that's probably what has happened in many cases.

I have some NiMH AA cells, OK the technology is slightly different. But some of these will not charge on an 'intelligent' charger, it suggests they are faulty (red LED on charger). I then stick them in a non-intelligent charger to pull the voltage up a bit. Then back into the intelligent charger, which now 'thinks' they are OK, for a few hours to fully charge. These batteries are all fairly new, all out of the same packet.

Augustus Brian Posted at 2016-12-29 05:24
Since we're on the subject of batteries, (and since the OP has toppled his king--[Chess: resigned]), I'd like to ask a question of the experienced DJI Phantom flyers (although it really applies to all brands of LiPo batteries, er, and all levels of pilots):

Have any of you experienced a battery fire, during flying, during charging, during storage, etc? One that didn't involve user error (i.e. the poster a few weeks back that tossed his salt-water-soaked battery in his car).

No fires.  Only one gone bad.

Between all the DJI's, 14500's and 18650's I must have something like 30 different li-ion and lipo batteries.  The one DJI intelligent battery that went bad was due to a "bad" cell (lower voltage than the other 3)

All the stories I've seen on the news about fires are mostly a matter of stupidity and perception.   WHY would someone carry an unprotected battery around in their pocket full of change... but they do.  Why would someone overcharge a battery or use the wrong charger... but they do.  Why would someone not read the warning labels... but they don't.  All it takes is one or two idiots to cause us all to use gas cans that have those aggravating "safety" spouts (my own pet peeve) Anyway, you get the picture.

If using a firebag will provide you with peace of mind, by all means, do so.

One thing everyone should keep in mind - people don't often go to a forum or the 'net and post rave reviews.  Those that I see that overly praise a product, I highly suspect.  People mostly go to forums, etc. to post negative reviews, problems, etc.  It's something to always keep in mind, and online reviews/forums/etc. must be "weeded" through carefully, before even determining what reality is, or isn't.

You need to keep some idea in mind of the overall volume of the product sold vs. the negative reviews/complaints.  It doesn't matter what the product is, who made it, etc. - there are ALWAYS some lemons.  Mostly made on Monday mornings, by workers still hung over from the weekend...

Aardvark Posted at 2016-12-29 06:00
+1, that's probably what has happened in many cases.

I have some NiMH AA cells, OK the technology is slightly different. But some of these will not charge on an 'intelligent' charger, it suggests they are faulty (red LED on charger). I then stick them in a non-intelligent charger to pull the voltage up a bit. Then back into the intelligent charger, which now 'thinks' they are OK, for a few hours to fully charge. These batteries are all fairly new, all out of the same packet.

Yup, same here.  The battery for my Headplay goggles has a protection circuit that sometimes requires that process.  And you hit on a very important distinction: putting the battery back into the intelligent charger!  

Well you got a defective battery or charging unit, but things happen.  Samsung, Apple, and other have had defective issue in the past, but does not make them bad companies.  If you want to give up, that is your choice, but you will be missing out.

I noticed Costco has a tendency to sell things that may be at the end of the product's life cycle.  Some of their cameras are almost a generation old compared to new ones on the market.  Try to buy some high capacity memory card there is futile as most are older and a smaller capacity.  My tablet, although a good price, was out of production a month after I bought it and stuck at Android 4.  If they are warehoused too long, then batteries will be dead once the owner gets them.

I returned two P4's to Best Buy until I got a 'reasonably good' one.  They are very good on exchanges, imho.  Neither was for battery as those all worked, but for camera issues.  Maybe their number of exchanges kept their stock fresh.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the intelligent battery as currently designed.  Just supply a battery and put the intelligent testing and discharging into the charger.  The self-discharge circuitry being on the battery may be taking its toll by sitting on warehouse or store shelf someplace for months and depleting the battery to the point it will not see the charger once plugged in and will remain dead.  There's a point where things can be overbuilt leading to more issues.