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Indoor crash erratic behaviour[SOLVED]
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1750 53 2017-1-7
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WindSoul
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I have hit the wall while flying indoors. It was in p mode, while indoors the attitude mode is recommended.
Problem is that the hit brought the drone with propeller rotation plane vertical and my first attempt was to shut down the motors( sticks at center low). Only that the drone motors did not shutdown as expected, the drone seemed to ramp up, as if automatically tried to enter hovering mode.
The book says do not perform motor stick shutdown wile in flight because the drone will drop with motors off. If the drone motors would shutdown, in my case there will be no damage. Not only they did not shutdown, but I managed to catch the drone by hand while was still crawling desperately up the wall, in an almost vertical position ( imagine propellers plane normally is horizontal, in that instance was parallel to the vertical wall)
To my surprise, now the motors were raving up like crazy, as if it tried to recover back to the wall. I could only shut it down by removing the battery. With the motors turning, it was chilling.
On a good note, don't ask how but the drone escaped unscathed.
Now the question: is it possible that the motor shutoff command was disregarded while the drone took over in the attempt to automatically recover?
I am worried that there might be instances ( like attitude recovery following inflight frontal crash) when the drone could disregard controller commands. I can see that useful when hitting a branch or surviving a bird attack, but in my case it felt uncontrollable.
2017-1-7
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Geebax
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Which motor shutdown command did you use, left throttle full down or a CSC?
2017-1-7
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hallmark007
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Holding both sticks down won't shut your motors off, CSC holding left stick down while pressing on RTH button will shut motors off, you will also have to set this in the app. If your aircraft is on the ground left stick down for 3 seconds will shut the motors down.

Both sticks down and inward or outward are for starting your motors, if you attempt this in the air it will not shut down your motors .
2017-1-8
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WindSoul
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Geebax Posted at 2017-1-7 19:28
Which motor shutdown command did you use, left throttle full down or a CSC?

At that time I pulled throttle down and kept it down.. the drone fell to the ground but never shut down.
2017-1-8
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WindSoul
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-1-8 04:04
Holding both sticks down won't shut your motors off, CSC holding left stick down while pressing on RTH button will shut motors off, you will also have to set this in the app. If your aircraft is on the ground left stick down for 3 seconds will shut the motors down.

Both sticks down and inward or outward are for starting your motors, if you attempt this in the air it will not shut down your motors .

Throttle down is what I intended to use, however at the time I thought CSC also shuts down motors
2017-1-8
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Hkdman
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Just my opinion here...and certainly each to their own...but I don't recommend flying indoors.  Without the GPS mode - you are really limited because it is purely a manual flight.  It just seems to me that with all of the walls, doors, etc in a house - it would be really easy to make a mistake and hit walls.
2017-1-8
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BeamMeUpScotty
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I have not tried flying in doors ever.  Thanks for uploading that image (figuratively of course!)
2017-1-8
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Geebax
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-8 07:06
Throttle down is what I intended to use, however at the time I thought CSC also shuts down motors

Yes, it would have been better to use the CSC method in that case, but even so it might not have stopped the motors. If the Phantom is not upright, it seems to ignore shotdown commands, as it is desperately trying to flip the aircraft the right way up.
2017-1-8
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Aardvark
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Which Phantom do you have ?

The motor shutdown for the P4 is left stick down/centre and push RTH button.

Latest version firmware for P3 introduced a three second delay to in flight motor shut down CSC command. Presumably to reduce the number of accidental motor shutdowns there have been while in flight. Not sure how that might affect motor shut off if it's lying on the ground.

2017-1-8
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WindSoul
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-1-8 17:10
Which Phantom do you have ?

The motor shutdown for the P4 is left stick down/centre and push RTH button.

I got the p4. After all, if there is an emergency shutdown I don't know. All I know is I needed to shutdown the motors and couldn't.
2017-1-11
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WindSoul
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Geebax Posted at 2017-1-8 14:38
Yes, it would have been better to use the CSC method in that case, but even so it might not have stopped the motors. If the Phantom is not upright, it seems to ignore shotdown commands, as it is desperately trying to flip the aircraft the right way up.

Well, I learned that indoors flies in atti. And that is full manual. And that messing with obstacles could lead to conflict between auto recovery and pilot commands. And that motors shutoff is not reliable in emergency. I wish I knew this before .
2017-1-11
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Aardvark
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-11 18:41
Well, I learned that indoors flies in atti. And that is full manual. And that messing with obstacles could lead to conflict between auto recovery and pilot commands. And that motors shutoff is not reliable in emergency. I wish I knew this before .

If I were flying indoors (which I don't), I would use P-MODE, if you lose GPS (which is what I would expect) it then switches to OPTI mode assuming there is enough light, that uses the  VPS to lock position provided there is reasonable contrast in what's below it. In ATTI mode there is no positioning at all.
2017-1-12
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Gray Bird
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If this hasn't been mentioned before, I would also change it to hoover, in the event it should loose contact with the controller instead of flying home.  Or it may also try to eat a hole in your ceiling.
2017-1-12
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Phantomski
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i have read somewhere that is the drone is NOT upright the CSC may not work, because the drone is desperately trying to right itself.. just something to keep in mind.. and perhaps something for DJI to work out.. if CSC is actually issues, it should be highest priority command.....
2017-1-12
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WindSoul
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-1-12 04:06
If I were flying indoors (which I don't), I would use P-MODE, if you lose GPS (which is what I would expect) it then switches to OPTI mode assuming there is enough light, that uses the  VPS to lock position provided there is reasonable contrast in what's below it. In ATTI mode there is no positioning at all.

Using any mode other than atti indoors is wrong, because besides atti, all other modes use gps. Indoor the gps is erratic.
2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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Phantomski Posted at 2017-1-12 09:24
i have read somewhere that is the drone is NOT upright the CSC may not work, because the drone is desperately trying to right itself.. just something to keep in mind.. and perhaps something for DJI to work out.. if CSC is actually issues, it should be highest priority command.....

I doubt dji could work out anything for the instance of drone hitting wall. The only workout I believe should be instant motors shutoff. That's what I tried. As you noticed, since the drone was not horizontal, it refused to shutoff. Well, it should have trusted the pilot at least in that instance. My question remains: is there anyway the pilot could trigger instant motors shutoff?
2017-1-14
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Aardvark
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-14 08:08
Using any mode other than atti indoors is wrong, because besides atti, all other modes use gps. Indoor the gps is erratic.

"all other modes use gps. Indoor the gps is erratic."

All other modes do not only use GPS, if you're in P mode and no GPS available then it automatically uses OPTI (visual, VPS) mode to stabilise aircraft, provided there is sufficient light. If not enough light it then automatically switches to ATTI mode.
2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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Hkdman Posted at 2017-1-8 13:07
Just my opinion here...and certainly each to their own...but I don't recommend flying indoors.  Without the GPS mode - you are really limited because it is purely a manual flight.  It just seems to me that with all of the walls, doors, etc in a house - it would be really easy to make a mistake and hit walls.

your opinion is wrong. flying indoors is mandatory in atti mode, where gps is disabled. this to avoid any erratic gps interference. that i found out after the facts, while browsing the forum
2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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BeamMeUpScotty Posted at 2017-1-8 13:13
I have not tried flying in doors ever.  Thanks for uploading that image (figuratively of course!)

the p4 is very stable indoors. she lifts off straight lands smoothly, hovers almost at fixed point and gentle motion of the sticks translates in really gentle behaviour of the aircraft. she does tend to become unsteady, but that only because of pilot getting confused. speaking from experience.
2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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AlecW Posted at 2017-1-14 08:53
It sounds like you used the wrong stick command to shut it down.

probably. but my share here is try to see the drone touching the wall, getting tilted and trying to recover towards the wall, like a moth repeatedly hitting the light . and me (or you) trying to shutdown the motors.
2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-1-14 10:30
"all other modes use gps. Indoor the gps is erratic."

All other modes do not only use GPS, if you're in P mode and no GPS available then it automatically uses OPTI (visual, VPS) mode to stabilise aircraft, provided there is sufficient light. If not enough light it then automatically switches to ATTI mode.

but in that case you have a warning of lost gps and she won't return home. off visual, she's as good as lost
2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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Gray Bird Posted at 2017-1-12 04:42
If this hasn't been mentioned before, I would also change it to hoover, in the event it should loose contact with the controller instead of flying home.  Or it may also try to eat a hole in your ceiling.

you pick is amazing. speaks my story better than my posting.
2017-1-14
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Aardvark
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-14 19:20
but in that case you have a warning of lost gps and she won't return home. off visual, she's as good as lost

"off visual, she's as good as lost"

Are you saying that the VPS doesn't work, and that it doesn't stabilise the aircraft indoors ?

That would seem a bit odd as it's one of the P4s big selling points:-
VPS stabile - Copy.jpg
2017-1-14
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Aardvark
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Gray Bird Posted at 2017-1-12 04:42
If this hasn't been mentioned before, I would also change it to hoover, in the event it should loose contact with the controller instead of flying home.  Or it may also try to eat a hole in your ceiling.

Good point as a precaution (glass roofs, windows), but if it has no GPS it will not return to home as it doesn't know where it is.
2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-1-14 19:36
"off visual, she's as good as lost"

Are you saying that the VPS doesn't work, and that it doesn't stabilise the aircraft indoors ?

you were talking position mode. that is outdoors.indoors there's not much stabilizing, shes using the accelerometers and gyros and baro, but lets not get crazy with visual positioning.
2017-1-14
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Aardvark
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-14 19:42
you were talking position mode. that is outdoors.indoors there's not much stabilizing, shes using the accelerometers and gyros and baro, but lets not get crazy with visual positioning.

I'm talking about indoor use of the visual positioning system which is only available in P mode. And therefore is the best mode to use for indoors. That is what it is designed to do. It's not a case of going crazy on visual positioning, it's exactly where it is intended to be of use, indoors.
2017-1-14
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Geebax
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Gray Bird Posted at 2017-1-12 04:42
If this hasn't been mentioned before, I would also change it to hoover, in the event it should loose contact with the controller instead of flying home.  Or it may also try to eat a hole in your ceiling.

So you are suggesting he should change it into vacuum cleaner mode ??

I know the P4 is clever, but I did not know it could do that?

2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-1-14 10:30
"all other modes use gps. Indoor the gps is erratic."

All other modes do not only use GPS, if you're in P mode and no GPS available then it automatically uses OPTI (visual, VPS) mode to stabilise aircraft, provided there is sufficient light. If not enough light it then automatically switches to ATTI mode.

optical sensors are for obstacle detection alone. i heard they may use for precision landing as well and fact is she does land precisely, but i thought that is because she knows precisely the position (10-16 satelites). so as much as i would like to give it a red bull of a credit, the vps is more of a fencing feature. funny thing, indoors the vps is disabled.
2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-1-14 19:47
I'm talking about indoor use of the visual positioning system which is only available in P mode. And therefore is the best mode to use for indoors. That is what it is designed to do. It's not a case of going crazy on visual positioning, it's exactly where it is intended to be of use, indoors.

i already told you the re is no p-mode indoors. because gps is unreliable indoors. only atti.
2017-1-14
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Geebax
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-14 19:51
optical sensors are for obstacle detection alone. i heard they may use for precision landing as well and fact is she does land precisely, but i thought that is because she knows precisely the position (10-16 satelites). so as much as i would like to give it a red bull of a credit, the vps is more of a fencing feature. funny thing, indoors the vps is disabled.

The VPS system Aardvark is referring to it the stereo optical system on the bottom of the aircraft, and it is not used for obstacle detection, it is there for position stabilisation when GPS is not able to be used.
2017-1-14
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Aardvark
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-14 19:54
i already told you the re is no p-mode indoors. because gps is unreliable indoors. only atti.

2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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AlecW Posted at 2017-1-14 08:53
It sounds like you used the wrong stick command to shut it down.

guy, your car looks like my drone in the occurrence of my thread. and yes, the words are used and wrong.
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Aardvark
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-14 19:54
i already told you the re is no p-mode indoors. because gps is unreliable indoors. only atti.

There is a positioning mode indoors its called visual positioning system, see video above. And is ONLY available when RC set to 'P' mode.
2017-1-14
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ePetLicensing.c
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There is NO reasoning with him. You tell him something he think of something else. Let him keep hitting the wall with ATTI mode if he likes it that much.
2017-1-14
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WindSoul
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Aardvark Posted at 2017-1-14 19:56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct_vOmQ017Y

is fine. the vid shows a drone flying indoors under a transparent ceiling. good light, good satellite reception. i guess both gps and vps were active at the time.
my drone flew under a roof and in dim light.
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WindSoul
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Geebax Posted at 2017-1-14 19:55
The VPS system Aardvark is referring to it the stereo optical system on the bottom of the aircraft, and it is not used for obstacle detection, it is there for position stabilisation when GPS is not able to be used.

is mind boggling how downwards visual data uses for stabilization. you mean hover? dji using optical mouse technology?
2017-1-14
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Aardvark
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-14 20:08
is fine. the vid shows a drone flying indoors under a transparent ceiling. good light, good satellite reception. i guess both gps and vps were active at the time.
my drone flew under a roof and in dim light.

So how do you explain the loss of GPS demonstration at about 1:30 into the video ? Luck perhaps ? And if there is insufficient light then it switches to ATTI mode, so your bomb proof.
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Aardvark
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More evidence http://www.dronecompares.com/flying-drone-indoors/
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Thermographer
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WindSoul Posted at 2017-1-14 19:24
you pick is amazing. speaks my story better than my posting.

Thanks, I owe it all to Al Bundy.
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Thermographer
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Geebax Posted at 2017-1-14 19:50
So you are suggesting he should change it into vacuum cleaner mode ??

I know the P4 is clever, but I did not know it could do that?

Got me there... Didn't know I was being graded on spelling..
2017-1-14
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