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Phantom 4 Pro DNG and JPG issues
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6070 72 2017-1-17
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fansecb6abeb
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Hi.

Let me start by saying that I am a professional photographer who makes a living out of photos. I mention this for those who want´s to tell me I am wrong in this post.

I have made several photo test with my Phantom 4 Pro and the issue continues.

I exposed perfectly, it looks great etc and I take a photo.  The DNG looks 3 steps or 4 steps underexposed, very contrasted and saturated. Almost as the JPG should look like.  And if I take a JPG it respect all the settings, exposure etc and it looks nice and flat and unsaturated and without contrast as I like it since I do post on them and I can recover all those value later.  

I have tried different sd cards. I have reset the camera settings. I have upgraded the firmware, downgraded it, I have made calibration, I have tried everything and the problem continues.

I have written to DJI and still no answer if this is a soon to be released firmware solution or I have to send it back, but still no answer.

Any thoughts on the matter?



2017-1-17
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fans73888802
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What program are you using to process your DNGs?
2017-1-17
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gvgeorge
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Sounds like zero fun to me.

Might the issue be in a profile set in your RAW converter for DNGs from another source?  When you begin to correct the issues are you liking what you see?

If it would be helpful I'd be willing to download one of your files and give it a look in Adobe Camera Raw.
2017-1-17
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Ricur
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I am using Camera Raw and then Photoshop.  This never happened with the Phantom 4 or the Phantom 3 Pro.  I have chatted with a rep and they say is normal! There´s no way that that is normal.

2017-1-17
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Cabansail
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I have not used DNG files yet but when using NEF & CR2 you can delete the sidecar file xmp file and it will reset the RAW to default values. Is that possible with the DNG?
2017-1-17
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Ricur
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Cabansail Posted at 2017-1-17 19:14
I have not used DNG files yet but when using NEF & CR2 you can delete the sidecar file xmp file and it will reset the RAW to default values. Is that possible with the DNG?

Not sure, could you please tell me how you do that? I can maybe try it with DNG.   
2017-1-17
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Ricur
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gvgeorge Posted at 2017-1-17 13:12
Sounds like zero fun to me.

Might the issue be in a profile set in your RAW converter for DNGs from another source?  When you begin to correct the issues are you liking what you see?

I use Camera RAw and Photoshop. And never had this problem with the Phantom 3 Pro or Phantom 4. Only with 4 Pro. I will check the parameters of Camera Raw and see if it is doing something to the DNG, but then again, then the JPG wouldn´t come out flatt and doll as the DNG should.
2017-1-17
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Ricur
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fans73888802 Posted at 2017-1-17 13:09
What program are you using to process your DNGs?

I use Camera Raw and Photoshop
2017-1-17
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PliciPleosc
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I am curious, can you set RAW+JPEG and upload somewhere original files. My DNG experience on my P4P seems to differ very much.
2017-1-17
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DJI Mindy
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Could you please upload some original images from SD card to dropbox and send me the link?
I'll help to check on it.
2017-1-18
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Ricur
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-1-18 00:57
Could you please upload some original images from SD card to dropbox and send me the link?
I'll help to check on it.

Sure, I will do so later today.  Thanks
2017-1-18
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Ricur
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-1-18 00:57
Could you please upload some original images from SD card to dropbox and send me the link?
I'll help to check on it.

Here are the files:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sw3xa ... WoA_aZMb1_ljfa?dl=0
2017-1-19
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juicedrummer
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What are your settings for the picture style and contrast/saturation? The jpeg will take the color profile of whatever is set on the camera. So when you expose to that setting that is exactly what you're going to get on a jpeg. The dng is straight sensor data and is just presented on screen based on however the computer software sees fit. When opened in camera raw editor you can then use the sliders to adjust the image as you see fit without loss of any quality as you would if you did the same to the jpeg. Don't see this as an issue. File size speaks for itself
2017-1-19
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Agent55
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I've run into this "issue" as well. I guess I expected the raw file to open up in photoshop with a much flatter look to it, not so contrasty and seemingly underexposed. I messed around with raw preferences in PS but haven't found a way to start with more of a "log" look. Cheers
2017-1-19
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Ricur
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juicedrummer Posted at 2017-1-19 09:19
What are your settings for the picture style and contrast/saturation? The jpeg will take the color profile of whatever is set on the camera. So when you expose to that setting that is exactly what you're going to get on a jpeg. The dng is straight sensor data and is just presented on screen based on however the computer software sees fit. When opened in camera raw editor you can then use the sliders to adjust the image as you see fit without loss of any quality as you would if you did the same to the jpeg. Don't see this as an issue. File size speaks for itself

I absolutely disagree with you.

RAW file has the ability to be further modify than JPG since it does not contain any adjustment from camera. JPG DOES.  In this caes the adjustment in camera are being applied to the DNG and not to the JPG. Sorry but I am a photographer and a retoucher and I do both for a living. And never with any camera or drone this has been the way DNG or Jpg are.
2017-1-20
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Ricur
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Agent55 Posted at 2017-1-19 11:19
I've run into this "issue" as well. I guess I expected the raw file to open up in photoshop with a much flatter look to it, not so contrasty and seemingly underexposed. I messed around with raw preferences in PS but haven't found a way to start with more of a "log" look. Cheers

Exactly.  You do understand me.   The parameters and the adjustments are inverse.  JPG should be contrasted and saturated and RAW files should be flatter. The starting point once you open the file on ACR or Lightroom or whatever should be much flatter and no contrast or saturation.
2017-1-20
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Geebax
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Ricur Posted at 2017-1-20 17:57
Exactly.  You do understand me.   The parameters and the adjustments are inverse.  JPG should be contrasted and saturated and RAW files should be flatter. The starting point once you open the file on ACR or Lightroom or whatever should be much flatter and no contrast or saturation.

I wonder if Camera RAW is opening the file with a default LUT applied? Some applications do this.
2017-1-20
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marksy
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The file opens fine in Lightroom and Photoshop. Looks as you would expect.

Corrects fine. Had to push it 3 stops, then added my presets. Looks great.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s41d4 ... gDry-Bcm1Iv3Za?dl=0
2017-1-20
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Ricur
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Geebax Posted at 2017-1-20 19:36
I wonder if Camera RAW is opening the file with a default LUT applied? Some applications do this.

Maybe that´s the problem. But that never happened with any other drone or camera.  How do you think I can tell if that´s the problem?
2017-1-20
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Ricur
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marksy Posted at 2017-1-20 20:36
The file opens fine in Lightroom and Photoshop. Looks as you would expect.

Corrects fine. Had to push it 3 stops, then added my presets. Looks great.

I understand. BUt in my computer that´s not the case.  JPG comes out flat and with no saturation or contrast and DNG are coming out contrasted and saturated.  
2017-1-20
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DJI-Jamie
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Could you happen to provide a sample of a DNG + JPG  combination of the same shot? The original would be preferred via a file sharing site like Dropbox.
2017-1-20
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PhantomPhil
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"Any thoughts on the matter"

DNG and JPG


Yes, have a look at the link above they are using the same photos as examples as you have posted here. You have already discussed this thoroughly with former DJi member CineView. What else do you need to know?
2017-1-21
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Geebax
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Ricur Posted at 2017-1-20 22:06
Maybe that´s the problem. But that never happened with any other drone or camera.  How do you think I can tell if that´s the problem?

It might be worth trying to open the DNG in a program that does not automatically apply a LUT, Da Vinci Resolve comes to mind, because you can choose how and when to apply a LUT.
2017-1-21
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marksy
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I think its something you've done. A file is a fine. The raw file is fine, my guess is the JPEG has a funny profile from the drone. Post both raw and JPEG versions.
2017-1-21
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juicedrummer
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Ricur Posted at 2017-1-20 17:55
I absolutely disagree with you.

RAW file has the ability to be further modify than JPG since it does not contain any adjustment from camera. JPG DOES.  In this caes the adjustment in camera are being applied to the DNG and not to the JPG. Sorry but I am a photographer and a retoucher and I do both for a living. And never with any camera or drone this has been the way DNG or Jpg are.

I'm sorry but after my tests this morning my statement stands.  took two pictures, both in jpeg+raw and one with the DLOG picture setting and one with the NONE picture style.  Opened both in photoshop and placed side by side.  The two raw pictures are identical.  The jpegs both took on the camera picture profile (none and dlog)
JPEG+RAW picture - NONE picture profile.  (jpeg is on the left, raw dng is on the right.)


JPEG+RAW picture - DLOG picture profile.  (dng on the left, jpeg on the right)


the raw pictures are identical in each exposure.  the jpegs are the ones taking the camera profile.  
2017-1-21
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Geebax
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juicedrummer Posted at 2017-1-21 12:38
I'm sorry but after my tests this morning my statement stands.  took two pictures, both in jpeg+raw and one with the DLOG picture setting and one with the NONE picture style.  Opened both in photoshop and placed side by side.  The two raw pictures are identical.  The jpegs both took on the camera picture profile (none and dlog)
JPEG+RAW picture - NONE picture profile.  (jpeg is on the left, raw dng is on the right.)
[view_image]

You might try posting those pictures again, they are not showing up.
2017-1-21
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fans909a2c2c
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Hello all:

I am having the same problem with me phantom 4.  My JPEGs are coming out looking like DNG files and my DNG files are coming out looking like JPEGs. My DNG files are super noisy, saturated, and contrasty. My settings on the DJI go app are as follows.

Color: D-Log
Style: Custom with Sharpening at -1, Saturation at -3, and contrast at -3

Here is a dropbox link so you guys can have a look.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z7eew ... JhZX02eIwkcl1a?dl=0

Any help would be fantastic.

Thanks,
2017-1-24
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fans909a2c2c
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Hi, by chance did you figure out the issue? I'm having the same problem as well.
2017-1-24
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Cabansail
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To me it sounds like one of two things.

- There is some weird profile which is altering the embedded thumbnail image in the raw file. It is that thumbnail that you initially see in many RAW converters.

- The camera is taking some weird RAW images then using presets to produce flat looking Jpegs.

First option is more likely

Cannot access Dropbox here to have a look. Maybe when I get home.
2017-1-24
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PliciPleosc
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I just looked at the DNG. Exposure is almost correct, I pushed in 2/3 stops up, but not even sure it was necessary. What is definitely wrong is White Balance.
DJI_0001.jpg
2017-1-24
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PliciPleosc
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Obviously JPEG is the same, not sure what you see wrong with this DNG, as you're saying that you are a professional photographer. To me looks almost as good as it gets with exception of WB. Can you explain once more what you see wrong with it?
On my computer both DNG and JPG from first link are similar, except White Balance can be nicely corrected in DNG. I am pretty sure there is nothing wrong with anything, except WB that is.

2017-1-24
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PliciPleosc
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dng_sample.JPG

I am puzzled, what is wrong with this DNG? JPG seems perfect too according to your settings and exposure. Histogram as shot seems to be ok, for an automatic exposure.

2017-1-24
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PliciPleosc
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Also this DNG, no modification except white balance seems ok for an auto exposure.

Have a look at Camera Raw DNG histogram. One stop under exposed, but camera metering was fouled slightly by captured image. Seems pretty darn good to my eyes.

dng_sample-01.JPG
2017-1-24
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PliciPleosc
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By the way, exposure metering is never "perfect exposure" as you mention in the first post. In this case, the metering was fouled by highlights in your nice vintage TV that are almost spot on the center of the captured image, so it went down a stop to compensate.

My two cents as amateur photographer that earns money from photography.
2017-1-24
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Geebax
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PliciPleosc Posted at 2017-1-24 17:05
Also this DNG, no modification except white balance seems ok for an auto exposure.

Have a look at Camera Raw DNG histogram. One stop under exposed, but camera metering was fouled slightly by captured image. Seems pretty darn good to my eyes.

RAW images do not have any white balance applied, the whole point of them is that you do that later in post.
2017-1-24
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PliciPleosc
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Geebax Posted at 2017-1-24 17:12
RAW images do not have any white balance applied, the whole point of them is that you do that later in post.

That is not true. It is true that you can correct it but the metadata records the camera WB settings and presents it when you open the file. Yes, you can change it freely from that point on, but not necessary if in-camera WB was set correctly in the first place... Even in Lightroom you can always revert to "as shot" white balance that is embeded into the raw file. Being able to change white balance freely is not the same as "do not have any white balance applied".
For original poster:
RAW files also have JPEG previews and complete metadata, including...
dng_sample-02.JPG


Even your auto "perfect exposure" seems to know this picture was 1 stop under exposed. What else is wrong with the DNG?
2017-1-24
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Geebax
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Sorry, but you are not correct. The white balance shown in the metadata is simply the value that has been set in the camera settings, it is not applied in any way to the RAW image. The whole point of RAW is exactly that, the raw image data, without any correction at all, it stored to a file, so that ytou can apply whatever processing you want to later. Programs that process RAW image data apply viewing LUTs to the file, lens correction information and a rough colour temperature correction to get you in the ballpark, however there are programs that will let you view the images without any corrections applied. Lightroom for example, applies a lot of correction to RAW files without you even being aware of it.

To quote Wiki on the subject:

'Nearly all digital cameras can process the image from the sensor into a JPEG file using settings for white balance, colour saturation, contrast, and sharpness that are either selected automatically or entered by the photographer before taking the picture. Cameras that produce raw files save these settings in the file, but defer the processing. This results in an extra step for the photographer, so raw is normally only used when additional computer processing is intended.'





2017-1-24
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C_LUU
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Adobe uses presets when loading the DNG files, you will notice that there is no lens correction for the P4P yet either, in PS or LR. This is because adobe are slow at releasing updates, given the rate of DSLR release compared to the drone market its no wonder. When adobe release this you will see your DNG's look good again when loaded. Its most likely trying to determine which camera has been used by looking at the metadata, not recognizing and loading an adobe standard/default.

the most important thing is that the data is all being retained on capture (Which it is), that way you can at the least get to the same point in editing, albeit a bit longer process.
2017-1-24
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jetforce
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C_LUU Posted at 2017-1-24 21:42
Adobe uses presets when loading the DNG files, you will notice that there is no lens correction for the P4P yet either, in PS or LR. This is because adobe are slow at releasing updates, given the rate of DSLR release compared to the drone market its no wonder. When adobe release this you will see your DNG's look good again when loaded. Its most likely trying to determine which camera has been used by looking at the metadata, not recognizing and loading an adobe standard/default.

the most important thing is that the data is all being retained on capture (Which it is), that way you can at the least get to the same point in editing, albeit a bit longer process.

Take a look here.

http://forum.dji.com/thread-82007-1-1.html
2017-1-24
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Geebax
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C_LUU Posted at 2017-1-24 21:42
Adobe uses presets when loading the DNG files, you will notice that there is no lens correction for the P4P yet either, in PS or LR. This is because adobe are slow at releasing updates, given the rate of DSLR release compared to the drone market its no wonder. When adobe release this you will see your DNG's look good again when loaded. Its most likely trying to determine which camera has been used by looking at the metadata, not recognizing and loading an adobe standard/default.

the most important thing is that the data is all being retained on capture (Which it is), that way you can at the least get to the same point in editing, albeit a bit longer process.

The lens correction data is built into the DNG file, this was established some time ago, so there is no need for Adobe to provide any presets.
2017-1-24
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