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Drone crash - Incorrect Homepoint
1536 27 2017-1-23
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cristianc
Second Officer
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Australia
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Hey guys,

Just decided to raise this as a new thread, I already had a couple of people advising of the new firmware update / software and commented on another thread about my experience. Below you can find more detail

On Sunday afternoon at 17:51 I was executing a flight above the water, I flew for around 17 minutes until I set the RTH (Return to home).

I got the message a new home point has been set (tried to cancel to no avail) thus flew away really fast followed by a signal loss and not being able cancel the landing. I addition to this I couldn't spot the drone anymore even tho I had my eyes on it the wholetime, it only took a  fraction of second to lose it.

Ps. I did set the Maximum Distance as previously reported.

Checking the logs and it seems to have crashed on a roof of a house without being able to retrieve it.

General Flight Plan - Usual Flying
http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/B67N70F96I0D6PZZRFOR/

Where it went wrong..
http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/B3S17W0M6EMQ6LKDRB95/

I would be very warry about the new update and have already report this to DJI Support.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask me any questions you might have

2017-1-23
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pjhudson
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I'd go ask the owners if you can retrieve the drone from their roof!
2017-1-23
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cristianc
Second Officer
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Australia
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pjhudson Posted at 2017-1-23 15:35
I'd go ask the owners if you can retrieve the drone from their roof!

I did and they said I have to got to get " roof guy" to get it.  Probably going to cost me around 300 bucks and it is pretty far away...

In addition I cannot see it at all on the roof which is weird. I suspect it might had crashed in the water and the location is correct.
2017-1-23
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Shrek
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Hello

There is a forum post about this.

See the forums
2017-1-23
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Shrek
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http://forum.dji.com/thread-81688-1-1.html
2017-1-23
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ArtistFirst
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cristianc Posted at 2017-1-23 15:54
I did and they said I have to got to get " roof guy" to get it.  Probably going to cost me around 300 bucks and it is pretty far away...

In addition I cannot see it at all on the roof which is weird. I suspect it might had crashed in the water and the location is correct.

Call the police.  Dial 311 and the police will help you get your property and a tree service or someone will come get it for $100 bucks.

You have as much right to your property as they do to theirs. I just went through this with my first crash. Sucks.  They can't withhold it from you just because it's on their property.  They have to be reasonable in letting you get it.

Sorry man.  I now know how much it sucks to get in a crash.  

Out of curiosity, why were you not able to reset the homepoint to where you were or, in the alternative set the home point to where the bird was so that you could find it before the crash?  If you could have set the homepoint to the bird, even though you lost VLOS, you would have regained it (Visual actually means radio visual) with a HP on the bird.  Sorry bro.  Sucks.
Oh, it auto landed on the house because you were out of battery.  The bird should be fine? Go get it.
2017-1-23
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cristianc
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ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-1-23 16:32
Call the police.  Dial 311 and the police will help you get your property and a tree service or someone will come get it for $100 bucks.

You have as much right to your property as they do to theirs. I just went through this with my first crash. Sucks.  They can't withhold it from you just because it's on their property.  They have to be reasonable in letting you get it.

Cheers for the reply, that's true. I am currently looking into getting a roof guy there to pick it up hopefully I can get someone there. The reason I couldn't cancel the landing is due to getting a mixed signal loss as well a strong interference possibly because of the roof
2017-1-23
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ArtistFirst
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cristianc Posted at 2017-1-23 17:55
Cheers for the reply, that's true. I am currently looking into getting a roof guy there to pick it up hopefully I can get someone there. The reason I couldn't cancel the landing is due to getting a mixed signal loss as well a strong interference possibly because of the roof

Are you sure it wasn't because it was low on battery? It went into an initiated landing sequence.

Also, it's possible that your RTH that was wayward might have been set there?

Did you post the logs?  I have only recently gotten into the business of looking into crashes but am happy to take a look at what you have going on.  

Oh, I see you did post the logs. I'll have a look.  There is a dude on PhantomPilots that is like an NTSB investigator I swear. He can look at your logs and come back with EXACTLY what happened.  If you want, I will pass your info on to him. I wasn't able to get anything here TBH but he took the logs and came back with info that I have no idea how he got and everyone seems to dig this dude.

Sorry again though. Good news is it's probably pretty safe up there but GO GET it as if it rains or snows on it, your chances of it being good still lessen obviously.  I would call the cops and go to their house.  They will go with you to the house and politely ask if you can get it and people seem to get a lot more cooperative when the cops are there.

I don't understand people.  Why won't they just let you get your damn bird?  Jerks.
2017-1-23
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ArtistFirst
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Check it:

18m 46.6s        Auto Landing        14satellites        45.6ft        0.5mph        13.6ft        26%        14.504V        3.617V        3.631V        3.633V        3.623V        0.016V

You were at 26% so you were already in low battery warning mode.  It wouldn't auto land on that unless you have it set to auto land at that level.

You were however only 13 feet from your homepoint which lends credence to my theory that your wayward homepoint was set to that location so if you hit RTH, it was doing what it was told even if you was at the wrong homepoint.  I've had it set incorrect homepoints before. Next time that happens, tether to your phone (if you have cell service) and get a good then try to reset the home point. My guess is you either got a bad point or you set it to the bird in which case that becomes your homepoint and if you hit RTH it will land immediately.

Do this, go to HealthyDrones and upload your log and then hit the "share" button and post it here and let me see what happened.
EDIT: I fogot, you can't send .txt files here, so you would just email it to me or post it somethng else.


2017-1-23
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Geebax
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cristianc Posted at 2017-1-23 17:55
Cheers for the reply, that's true. I am currently looking into getting a roof guy there to pick it up hopefully I can get someone there. The reason I couldn't cancel the landing is due to getting a mixed signal loss as well a strong interference possibly because of the roof

Before you go to the trouble of getting someone up on the roof, do you know anyone else with a drone who can fly over the roof and spot your aircraft? It could save you a lot of trouble.
2017-1-23
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pjhudson
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cristianc Posted at 2017-1-23 15:54
I did and they said I have to got to get " roof guy" to get it.  Probably going to cost me around 300 bucks and it is pretty far away...

In addition I cannot see it at all on the roof which is weird. I suspect it might had crashed in the water and the location is correct.

Offer them $100...
2017-1-23
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cristianc
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Geebax Posted at 2017-1-23 18:27
Before you go to the trouble of getting someone up on the roof, do you know anyone else with a drone who can fly over the roof and spot your aircraft? It could save you a lot of trouble.

Unfortunately I don't
2017-1-23
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Geebax
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OK, it looks like you are a bit south of Brisbane, anyone here able to help out with an aerial eye survey?

2017-1-23
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cristianc
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ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-1-23 18:15
Check it:

18m 46.6s        Auto Landing        14satellites        45.6ft        0.5mph        13.6ft        26%        14.504V        3.617V        3.631V        3.633V        3.623V        0.016V

I really appreciate your response, I have tried quite a lot things sadly..Resetting the homepoint was the first thing in my mind but I couldn't locate the drone anymore so remote wasn't communicating with the drone. It was super crazy
2017-1-23
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fansaea3e9cb
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Can I use any motor temporarily as long as the kV and PN are the same?
2017-1-23
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Geebax
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fansaea3e9cb Posted at 2017-1-23 19:01
Can I use any motor temporarily as long as the kV and PN are the same?

You are hijacking someones elses' thread, please open your own thread or delete your response.
2017-1-23
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cristianc
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ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-1-23 18:15
Check it:

18m 46.6s        Auto Landing        14satellites        45.6ft        0.5mph        13.6ft        26%        14.504V        3.617V        3.631V        3.633V        3.623V        0.016V

Ps this is info from HealthyDrone HealthyDrones
2017-1-23
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cristianc
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Geebax Posted at 2017-1-23 19:00
OK, it looks like you are a bit south of Brisbane, anyone here able to help out with an aerial eye survey?

That would be amazing, if anyone can do this for me that would be great, I can email them my mobile no.
2017-1-23
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ArtistFirst
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cristianc Posted at 2017-1-23 19:06
Ps this is info from HealthyDrone HealthyDrones

The logs show nothing but the end of the light at the 18th minute.

Where are all the logs for the rest of the flight.  It shows it auto-landing at the end and then a disconnect based on interference which had to be when it disconnected fully from the bird.

Even though you might not be getting info from your telemetry, RC and all, the bird is still collecting data as it goes and sending out the same warnings and telemetry info, you are just not seeing it on the device if you are disconnected.

Can you upload the log that is the one RIGHT before this one.

It definitely thought the homepoint was where it landed and you were probably hitting return to home thinking it thought you were still the homepoint.

HINT: If you guys are using an iPad or something and it loses connection.  Immediately use your phone or some other device. I have lost connection before and then shut down the iPad and hooked up my phone and the connection is fine.

Did you get the thing back yet?  By the way, my property rights advice was based on US law.  It might be completely different in Australia.  Just saw you were there.  Hope you get it back in good shape.
2017-1-24
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ArtistFirst
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Ok, I finally found out how to use the JarRscrLoader app on my Mac which won't let me use .txt files.  PM me and I will give you my e-mail and if you go to PhantomHelp and get the .Dat or .CSV file and send them to me I will be able to get you ALL of the data that is retrievable from your flight records (telemetry, stick info, homepoints, etc).  Please send them over and I will post what I find. I only JUST NOW found out how to do this. Am about to dig into my own records now.
2017-1-24
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cristianc
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ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-1-24 13:24
Ok, I finally found out how to use the JarRscrLoader app on my Mac which won't let me use .txt files.  PM me and I will give you my e-mail and if you go to PhantomHelp and get the .Dat or .CSV file and send them to me I will be able to get you ALL of the data that is retrievable from your flight records (telemetry, stick info, homepoints, etc).  Please send them over and I will post what I find. I only JUST NOW found out how to do this. Am about to dig into my own records now.

Hi ArtistFirst,

Thank you for looking into this I have attached all logs files for that day. Do let me know if you find anything else unusual.

Thank you
Cristian

DJI Flight Record.zip

500.76 KB, Down times: 1

All Flight logs for that day

2017-1-24
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ArtistFirst
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cristianc Posted at 2017-1-24 13:40
Hi ArtistFirst,

Thank you for looking into this I have attached all logs files for that day. Do let me know if you find anything else unusual.

I'm on it.

I am having some trouble with the datfile.net software wanting to take the .csv file that it says it takes.  When my wife gets home with her Windows machine, I will install the software on hers and see what it says.  It is giving me an error when I try to run the .CSV file and now I am trying to get the .DAT file which is the only other thing apparently that the MAC version of the software can decrypt but I need to install the DJI Assistant 2 that it won't install for some odd reason. I am not having a lot of luck. Hopefully there is a DAT file in your zip file there.

In case you are wondering why am I going so far trying to do this is because I want to see my own records as well. I will figure it out but my bird is already on it's way to DJI so I have to use another P4 that I happen to have in order to see if it works. I can gather a DAT file I THINK from the DJI assistant.

Feels like this stuff shouldn't be as complicated as it is.  I suppose it's really not, I mean I can see my flight on the GoApp as the warning are coming in but I would also like to see what was happening on the throttle and elevators and such at the same time.  I dunno.  Maybe I should spend less time racking my brains on something that at the end of the day I can buy right now refurbished for $799. Lol. I feel I have already done way more than a $1000 worth of work but my curiousity is what drives me contrary to what Aardvark and AlecW seem to think.  

2017-1-24
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Labroides
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ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-1-24 13:24
Ok, I finally found out how to use the JarRscrLoader app on my Mac which won't let me use .txt files.  PM me and I will give you my e-mail and if you go to PhantomHelp and get the .Dat or .CSV file and send them to me I will be able to get you ALL of the data that is retrievable from your flight records (telemetry, stick info, homepoints, etc).  Please send them over and I will post what I find. I only JUST NOW found out how to do this. Am about to dig into my own records now.

Don't waste your time.
The work has already been done  http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?m ... 59733&fromuid=10818
(and explained simply)
2017-1-24
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cristianc
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I have some great new guys, I finally was able to retrieve the drone from the person's roof and super lucky it is mint condition. Anyhow I still believe there is an issue with the firmware & update that caused this and I was lucky for it not end up in the ocean.

I really appreciate everyone's comments and help. Let me know if you need more info from myself.
2017-1-24
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WilliamM
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ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-1-23 16:32
Call the police.  Dial 311 and the police will help you get your property and a tree service or someone will come get it for $100 bucks.

You have as much right to your property as they do to theirs. I just went through this with my first crash. Sucks.  They can't withhold it from you just because it's on their property.  They have to be reasonable in letting you get it.

Just a side note.
LOS – Line off Sight. Is your radio signal LOS (straight line without obstructions).

VLOS – Visual Line of Sight.
means unaided (corrective lenses and/or sunglasses exempted) visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to be able to maintain operational control of the aircraft, know its location, and be able to scan the airspace in which it is operating to decisively see and avoid other air traffic or objects.
2017-1-24
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cristianc
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WilliamM Posted at 2017-1-24 20:13
Just a side note.
LOS – Line off Sight. Is your radio signal LOS (straight line without obstructions).

Thank you for the info William.
2017-1-24
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ArtistFirst
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I just wanted to say that with the bird that DJI just sent me, I went to fly for the second time yesterday.

First, the first time it wouldn't let me record a home point with the RC and I tried with 3 different devices all now running the GoApp 4 and it would not let me set a home point no matter how I tried. I figured "must be a glitch, I have the homepoint anyway."

Brought it home. This was literally a 5-6 minute "does the bird fly and take nice vid" test which it does on both occasions.

Cut to few days later when I have all my bats charged and a real day of shooting planned.

I go to the Lake Hollywood, crystal clear day and I've been wanting to get some shots of the Hollywood Sign and the LA dam.

At one point when I'm flying near the sign I had walked over a few feet and I wanted to change my HP and I try to set it at the home point the usual way, MC, click button with guy, but it says "homepoint not recorded". I had plenty of sats and my downlink was perfect. Just wouldn't record a home point.

Then, I fly it back and see if I reset, have it closer, anything, "can I record a new home point"?

The answer was no and I stupidly decided "whatever, it's still recording the HP when it takes off, I'll call support when I'm done and we will see what they have to say".

On my 3rd bat, this happened: I decided again to try and see if it's working yet, not wanting to be dealing with a faulty Phantom that I JUST got back" and I try to set the HP again and it sets it at the bird, and oh great, now I have no HP if it goes out of range and tries to RTH.

I immediately get nervous and manually bring the bird home. It was a real sunny day and I had about 55 percent and so I wasn't really worried but somehow or another I lose visual while returning home and I admit I start to panic. I am not used to flying this location and for some reason there wasn't locate a landmark or something to figure out how to visually spot it.

Thankfully a couple people that were helping me from the park and had been hanging and watching the whole time had a visual on it (that I lost while looking at the software trying to figure out where I was because the RTH was sending it back to the Hollywood sight).

Once I got the visual, my battery percentage wasn't that low but for whatever reason I'm panicking a little and so I put it in sport because it's about a minute until it was going to auto-RTH because of where it was and the distance from where it thought home was.

I think I'd be able to break the failsafe with the sticks or a cancel but I wasn't sure and because I wasn't sure I'm flying that thing to me like if I don't goodbye.

With 4 seconds left before it was about to auto engage RTH and return to the Hollywood sign, I hand caught the legs and killed the motors.

But phew. That was odd.

The worst part, the call to DJI.

Dji,  

You guys need to stop putting people with a manual in front of them and no idea about the birds you serve so well to people at call centers in India or wherever that not only have never probably flown one of these things and if so, are lucky the bird survived.

The first guy was so bad at understanding the issue that he LITERALLY didn't understand the question. This is "DJI Technical Assistance" we are talking about.

I'm saying to the guy "how do you not understand what I'm saying. I can't be more clear."

And he would return with (after obviously reading his little manual) "sir the HomePoint is set when you take off".

Me: "yes sir, I know that which is why I was flying at all. What I am saying is that I can't set a new homepoint". He says "you can't set a new homepoint while you're flying". At this point I know the guy knows literally less about flying a DJI piece of gear that any flier I know so I kindly ask for a level 2 tech not knowing if there is one.

A guy comes on with the same amount of knowledge as the above guy, then has the same amount of knowledge.  Literally knew nothing but what he was reading slowly. Mind you, there were breaks of 10 minute and more several times to either go read or ask someone else, not sure what was happening during these breaks.

Now I look, and because there was 16 people in the cue when I started the call and it's been 1:46 (1 hour and 46 minutes, the time it took me to gather my stuff at the site, grab lunch to go, bring it home, eat it and I'm still not even with a person that understands the problem even, let alone someone that can fix it.

Finally, and without hope, I ask for a third guy. By the way, I was told there are not "level 2 techs" which I was happy he said yes when I asked but he just knew he wasn't going to be able to help.

The third guy was the first and only person that would acknowledge that he understood the issue but even that took some coaxing because he asked "Why would you ever need to change the ordinal home point" and of course I answered with "there are literally more answers than I have time to say but off the cuff, if something strange happens and I lose my homepoint (exactly what did happen). I say what if I'm in a boat and the boat is moving, I would like the bird to know where I am. What if I just want to move the homepont? How about I'm shooting a car commercial and I end up a mile away from where the bird is".

Well the answer to that is DJI, in their infinite wisdom have allowed us to set honepoints at the bird or the RC for various reasons and I even bought an iPad that HAD LTE for accurate home points and you don't even need GPS if you have wifi because it will use triangulation to make a, not as good homepoint, but one none-the-less.

His final response was "I don't know. That's a tough one (no it isnt, it's pretty easy I'm thinking but do you know why or a way to fix it I ask him) and he says these words "Well word told not to offer this, but maybe roll back your firmware that you were using when it worked".

I informed him that I have always been a proponent of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and since the crash (and by the way, they sent me back a refurb, not a repaired. bird which is 100% fine with me as long as it shoots as well as my last one which I'm happy to say it does but for this not so small issue.

I told him I would happily roll back the bird if I could roll back to the old app but I can't do the other and this guy (who mind you is the guy that knows the most so far) tells me there is no matter on whether to balance the software and the bird firmware with each other. I told him even if he was right, which I'm pretty sure it isn't (my bird came to me from the factory with the latest firmware and someone else's name for the bird) and so I decided I better get the GoApp4 as my Mavic is coming and it says "all 4s and above must be on GoApp4" on some not too distant future.

Sooo, the moral of the story is I thought of this thread. I remember thinking "this guy seemed to know what he was doing. His story is odd". I swear as this was happening to me, I was thinking of this thread.

So now what? I'm hoping someone from DJI (as the people that post here from DJI) have at a minimum a good understanding of the birds and sometimes a fantastic one.

I am sorry to publicly bash the support I got on the phone but if It means I have to set up an appointment from 3 days from now, I'd rather that than get zero or wrong info which is all I got after a couple hours on phone.

You can't just call something technical support and it becomes that. The people need some knowledge. I have gotten some good people on support in the past but the above happened and I understand that you guys are probably having trouble hiring people with the know-how at the demand that is probably growing from the amount of units sold. Is this the actual culprit for the roll out of the Mavic being so slow?

My fear is that people with less knowledge than myself are actually listening to these people. The first guy told me you can't set a new HP which if you were a new flier and ended up in this position, you would have no idea that this was a malfunction.

My next question is what now? I have exhausted support to even to get them to understand this rather benign but dangerous issue.  So what now? Hopefully I'll be able to figure it out.

Just thought I'd let you know the same exact thing happened to me. It set a HP at the bird, I was unable to set a new one and if I lost connection, it would have gone and landed itself on a mountain and hopefully not in a tree.

Not cool. The shots did look AMAZING though. I'll post the shoot later. Beatiful day for the Hollywood Sign.
2017-2-25
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cristianc
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ArtistFirst Posted at 2017-2-25 09:21
I just wanted to say that with the bird that DJI just sent me, I went to fly for the second time yesterday.

First, the first time it wouldn't let me record a home point with the RC and I tried with 3 different devices all now running the GoApp 4 and it would not let me set a home point no matter how I tried. I figured "must be a glitch, I have the homepoint anyway."

Interesting, even tho we had an update two weeks ago in regards to the home-point issue, nowadays I just try and fly the drone manually back as opposed to let it return.

I look at the map and orientate myself where  and bring it home.

I think for me Home Point is really my last resort.

2017-2-26
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