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Losing Signal as P3S turns around
1578 24 2017-1-30
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SLiWooDy
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Hi

I am wondering if anyone else has got the same issue I have.
I have a P3S with the ArgteK range extender antenna which gives me alot better distances than the stock antenna, but what I have noticed is if I send the drone out on a flight to a fair distance (say 400 meters+ ) when I rotate the drone180 degrees to bring it back it loses signal. I think whats happeneing is as the drone turns maybe the camera is interferring with the signal? maybe? If I fly the drone backwards and dont turn the signal is not lost.

Most times It reconnects almost instantly or within a few seconds but its just a tad annoying when your trying to film a good shot and it disconnects.

Has anyone else experience this?
How does the drone recieve the signal and would it help to extend or position it better?

any help appriciated.



2017-1-30
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fans22aa3cea
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Hello SLiWooDy, you're not alone

Check my thread about the very same issue, here: http://forum.dji.com/thread-76369-1-1.html

It seems the only solution is to send it back for repairment
2017-1-30
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SLiWooDy
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Nah forget that, does anyone know if there is a way to extend the length of the 2.8ghz or 5.6ghz cable which runs down the inside leg and if that would help?
2017-1-30
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WilliamM
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fans22aa3cea Posted at 2017-1-30 03:18
Hello SLiWooDy, you're not alone

Check my thread about the very same issue, here: http://forum.dji.com/thread-76369-1-1.html

This is not a repair issue, it's just the way it is with the Phantom at range. They don't have a great antenna arrangement for frontal signal.
2017-1-30
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WilliamM
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SLiWooDy Posted at 2017-1-30 03:51
Nah forget that, does anyone know if there is a way to extend the length of the 2.8ghz or 5.6ghz cable which runs down the inside leg and if that would help?

The antenna in the legs are the 5.8 GHz signal, and that's not the issue your having I bet. It's the 2.4 GHz (wifi) signal, those are up in the body of the drone. That's why your having this issue when turning around, that's not the best place for the antenna. If you look inside the battery opening when the battery is pulled out you can see them, right and left.  I had the very same issue till I did some mods. If you don't care about the warranty, you can do this.
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2017-1-30
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solentlife
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I have the opposite ...... but control not video.

Going out I lose signal, but when I turn and it starts coming back - signal returns. I've even flown backwards increasing distance better than forwards flight !

Nigel
2017-1-30
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Bay Cruiser
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SLiWooDy Posted at 2017-1-30 03:51
Nah forget that, does anyone know if there is a way to extend the length of the 2.8ghz or 5.6ghz cable which runs down the inside leg and if that would help?

Now that was a funny reply and I totally agree. !!

Waste of time sending it to DJI because all they do is charge you for the privilege and bearing in mind it's not that easy when you don't live in the States and can't do without it for 6 plus weeks.
2017-1-31
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fans22aa3cea
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WilliamM Posted at 2017-1-30 21:58
This is not a repair issue, it's just the way it is with the Phantom at range. They don't have a great antenna arrangement for frontal signal.

I would think so, but where my P3S goes as far as 100mt, another one almost double it.
Where mine looses signal while turning around, another one doesn't.

I know those as a fact, because I tested both situation.

That clearly means mine has some issue, and since it came back from repairment that way, I would think - as suggested by someone - that the antenna came loose at some point, most likely during the shipping.

2017-1-31
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fans22aa3cea
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SLiWooDy Posted at 2017-1-30 03:51
Nah forget that, does anyone know if there is a way to extend the length of the 2.8ghz or 5.6ghz cable which runs down the inside leg and if that would help?

well, If you're up to open it (and void your warranty, of course), then you can at least check if the antenna isn't simply loose.
2017-1-31
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SLiWooDy
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WilliamM Posted at 2017-1-30 22:04
The antenna in the legs are the 5.8 GHz signal, and that's not the issue your having I bet. It's the 2.4 GHz (wifi) signal, those are up in the body of the drone. That's why your having this issue when turning around, that's not the best place for the antenna. If you look inside the battery opening when the battery is pulled out you can see them, right and left.  I had the very same issue till I did some mods. If you don't care about the warranty, you can do this.

is there a tutorial on how to do this?
2017-1-31
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WilliamM
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fans22aa3cea Posted at 2017-1-31 05:24
I would think so, but where my P3S goes as far as 100mt, another one almost double it.
Where mine looses signal while turning around, another one doesn't.

The wifi antenna wires go to the gimbal (black and gray), if your comfortable with dropping down the gimbal it's easy to check if their not connected. Just under the two little doors, remove two screws for each.
2017-1-31
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WilliamM
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SLiWooDy Posted at 2017-1-31 05:34
is there a tutorial on how to do this?

While not a tutorial, some good reading.
http://www.phantompilots.com/thr ... replacement.101492/
http://www.phantompilots.com/thr ... -for-2-4ghz.103869/
http://www.phantompilots.com/thr ... hz-antennas.102655/
2017-1-31
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fans22aa3cea
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WilliamM Posted at 2017-1-31 10:53
The wifi antenna wires go to the gimbal (black and gray), if your comfortable with dropping down the gimbal it's easy to check if their not connected. Just under the two little doors, remove two screws for each.

I don't understand: aren't the antenna the white cable and the grey cable going from the main board to the "legs"? What if they're somewhat loose at the mainboard end? I would need to pry it open fully, wouldn't I?
2017-1-31
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WilliamM
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fans22aa3cea Posted at 2017-1-31 23:53
I don't understand: aren't the antenna the white cable and the grey cable going from the main board to the "legs"? What if they're somewhat loose at the mainboard end? I would need to pry it open fully, wouldn't I?

Those (both) are for control (5.8 GHz), and yes you would have to open it up to check. But there are also the wifi (2.4 GHz) antenna that are located in the drone itself, but the wires for them go down to the gimbal, not into the drone. To check them all you have to do is drop down the camera/gimbal, remove four small screws that hold down two small doors giving you access the the connectors. If any wires are loose my money is on these, not the others. As that's what it sounds like from this issue of losing signal when turning the drone.
2017-2-1
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solentlife
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WilliamM Posted at 2017-2-1 08:44
Those (both) are for control (5.8 GHz), and yes you would have to open it up to check. But there are also the wifi (2.4 GHz) antenna that are located in the drone itself, but the wires for them go down to the gimbal, not into the drone. To check them all you have to do is drop down the camera/gimbal, remove four small screws that hold down two small doors giving you access the the connectors. If any wires are loose my money is on these, not the others. As that's what it sounds like from this issue of losing signal when turning the drone.

Sorry .... not quite.

The shorter cable (grey) in the leg is the ONLY 5.8Ghz antenna wire.

The White longer cable in the other leg that disappears inside a little box at the feet is the COMPASS lead to the COMPASS card sitting inside that little box.

Yes - the 2.4Ghz leads go into the gimbal base.

Nigel
2017-2-1
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WilliamM
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solentlife Posted at 2017-2-1 10:58
Sorry .... not quite.

The shorter cable (grey) in the leg is the ONLY 5.8Ghz antenna wire.

I was referring to the wifi (2.4 GHz) wires going to the gimbal, (those are black + gray) not the ones in the legs.
But there are two antenna wires in the legs, and both are 5.8 GHz, and the compass would be a third wire.

2017-2-1
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solentlife
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Yes ... sorry - my mistake .... Full apology ...

I was watching a dismantling video when posting and the guy only had one 5.8 lead .... so he obviously cut his video .... I should have looked at mine before jumping in !!

Nigel
2017-2-1
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fans22aa3cea
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WilliamM Posted at 2017-2-1 11:36
I was referring to the wifi (2.4 GHz) wires going to the gimbal, (those are black + gray) not the ones in the legs.
But there are two antenna wires in the legs, and both are 5.8 GHz, and the compass would be a third wire.

ok, now I got it. My problem is I loose control of the Drone when it turn around itself, while the OP is saying he's loosing Video signal
2017-2-2
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WilliamM
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fans22aa3cea Posted at 2017-2-2 02:23
ok, now I got it. My problem is I loose control of the Drone when it turn around itself, while the OP is saying he's loosing Video signal

These two could be linked together, because in my option (could be wrong, but don't think so) when video is lost, telemetry is probably not far behind. And the system uses the telemetry data to confirm the RC is still connected. So once the telemetry is out for at least three full seconds it just reports the control signal must also be down, otherwise how would it know if not by the telemetry data. So by improving the wifi signal (the telemetry), you in turn are helping the control signal to be reported correctly. IMO
2017-2-2
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fans22aa3cea
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WilliamM Posted at 2017-2-2 08:08
These two could be linked together, because in my option (could be wrong, but don't think so) when video is lost, telemetry is probably not far behind. And the system uses the telemetry data to confirm the RC is still connected. So once the telemetry is out for at least three full seconds it just reports the control signal must also be down, otherwise how would it know if not by the telemetry data. So by improving the wifi signal (the telemetry), you in turn are helping the control signal to be reported correctly. IMO

Sure it can be. I have to say I often still have video signal when I loose control and RTH kicks in, which I always found odd, as I would expect it to be the other way around: first I loose video, then I loose control, the RTH kicks in.
2017-2-3
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Mark The Droner
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To answer the last question in the OP, flying higher would likely help.  Also, elevating the controller antenna, even a little bit, would likely help (e.g. standing on a step ladder).  

RC by its nature may the only RF antenna system in the history of mankind that employs a transmitting antenna positioned three feet off the ground.  
2017-2-3
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TXBiker63
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Beyond me why they did things backwards to begin with. My racing quads fly on 2.4 and video is 5.8. All of my hobby grade helis and planes fly 2.4 and my cars and boats are 2.4 There's never been a problem with signal loss...ever. I was fooling with friends at the track last week had to have been 15 cars running and me overhead with the racer all on 2.4 plus the tracks free wifi. A couple of times I was behind the building or hovering over the roof and no signal issue. Could it be that the transmitter is so underpowered that range and signal quality are compromised? The thing is powered by a 1.2v single cell and internal components don't exactly look top quality. My JR, Spektrum, and Sanwa transmitters are all 4.8v and a first gen 2.4 is 7.2v.  Just makes me question a lot of DJI's decisions as far as flight controls are concerned. I have a 100 cc biplane and it's big, real big and if I fly it to max los it would be too far to see a tiny phantom and never had a range issue. I don't trust my phantom to fly beyond los and would never fly fpv because of the video delay. It is what it is I guess an entry level camera quad.
2017-2-3
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solentlife
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TXBiker63 ...

OK - First .... 2.4Ghz is a LoS RF frequency and seriously hindered by any obstruction between Tx and Rx. One of the worst can be a chain link fence !! If you fly over a forest and model dips below tree line - you risk losing it. Unlike the older Fm / AM lower frequency days that basically connection was just a matter of range.

Second - The RC of the Phantom is actually a 1S LiPo of 3.7V (4.2V when full charged) .... not 1.2V. It is also of 2600mAh - which means a good reserve of power.

The transmission of standard RC is not same as the transmission of the P3S ... The RC Tx is frequency hopping whether FASSST or ACSST or Spektrums modified JR version ... but P3S is using WiFi coding not hopping.

I regularly fly my P3S out of sight and have never questioned its ability to return. But with all my over 50 regular models - I would never expect to get back if out of sight ... Ok - I have managed it by sound ... but it was more luck than ability I reckon !!

What I'm saying is the two disciplines do not compare. I agree that DJI could have gone the route of others and used conventional Rc gear but then it would be significant costs just for control before you add in the camera / gimbal / airframe / motors etc.

I fly my P3S out to average 1500 to 2000m - which I could never do with my regular RC planes ... even my big Gasoline powered would never be flown that far - at 300 - 400m its getting bad !!

Nigel
2017-2-3
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Mark The Droner
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My understanding is that DJI deliberately switched to 5.8 for control - not because 5.8 was superior, but because 5.8 was inferior range-wise.  This might seem backwards because DJI was already using 2.4 for control on the original Phantom (which didn't include built in FPV), so intuitively, one would think they'd use 5.8 for FPV.  But by switching control to 5.8, this freed the 2.4 band which allowed them to use it for something they had never done before - provide FPV AND telemetery built in and ready to go in a single quadcopter. This makes sense when you think about it because the FPV and telemetery wifi signals do an incredible amount of work both coming and going whereas the control signal is just a simple one way signal.   It's ironic because the Phantom 2 Vision released in the fall of 2013 had even less range than the original Phantom.  But DJI deemed it necessary to switch to 5.8 even if it meant losing range due to the complexity of the FPV and telemetry wifi signal.  And so the P2V was born.  

When the straight P2 came out (ironically after the P2V was released), it followed in the footsteps of the original Phantom in that it used 2.4 for control.  

Then, after the P2V+ was out, the P3A was released with Lightbridge, which enabled DJI to use 2.4 for everything.  

And then, after the P3A and P3P was released, out came the P3S.  But again, like the straight P2, it followed in the footsteps of its ugly stepsister, the P2V and P2V+, rather than its better looking and smarter brothers, the P3A/P.

The P3S is really just an advanced version of the P2V.  



2017-2-3
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solentlife
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I think that losing control before video is the better of the evils.

1. Because the AC will auto RTH when control is lost
2. You will know where it is because the video stream will still be there giving you insight into position when control is lost.

Unfortunately - this does not always work though with the stock out of box machine - where video is breaking down so often at close range. You then rely on the S2 switch etc. to get you home !!

Once the Video 2.4Ghz is sorted ... Icarus / Magic Power ... and antenna ... the situation soon resolves into a good one with 5.8Ghz dropping out and RTH initiating AND you still having Video stream.

Nigel
2017-2-3
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