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FAA Part 107 Airspace Question
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fans80486191
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Hello Forum Members,

As of the other day, I am officially an FAA Part 107 pilot. I've studied hard and know most regulations like the back of my hand. I do have one question that has me thinking.

I understand classes of airspace (A,B,C,D,E,G) and how they work. Let me give an example to lead in to my question:

I am flying 3.5 miles away from an airport with Class D airspace. However, the area that I am flying in us under the shelf of the class D airspace (lets call this floor of class D airpace 1,200ft MSL). Since Class D starts at 1,200 MSL, the space that would be in is considered Class G from the surface to 1,999ft MSL. However, I always need to unlock and accept the warnings in the DJI GO app that I am flying in class D airspace (which is really an warning/enhanced warning zone in CLASS G airspace -- under class D airspace.)

Based on this knowledge/circumstance, would I still need to contact ATC to let them know that I am flying under Class D airspace.

Thanks!
2017-1-31
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KM5RG-Robert
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You already said you were 3.5 miles from the airport, so isn't that a yes?
2017-1-31
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fans80486191
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KM5RG-Robert Posted at 2017-1-31 20:47
You already said you were 3.5 miles from the airport, so isn't that a yes?

I thought that the 5-mile notify ATC rule was only if you are in restricted airspace for hobbyists. Class G airspace under the floor of Class D airspace is theoretically unrestricted, correct?
2017-1-31
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KM5RG-Robert
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fans80486191 Posted at 2017-1-31 20:57
I thought that the 5-mile notify ATC rule was only if you are in restricted airspace for hobbyists. Class G airspace under the floor of Class D airspace is theoretically unrestricted, correct?

I am not 107, but I thought it was 5 miles for everyone. If it is not for 107, I do not know.
2017-1-31
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Furyswrath
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When in doubt contact ATC. Or you can contact your local fsdo. https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/
2017-1-31
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shawn_
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Furyswrath Posted at 2017-1-31 21:30
When in doubt contact ATC. Or you can contact your local fsdo. https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/

Exactly what he said. Would "well a guy on the drone forum said it was okay" hold up to the FAA when they question you about it?

The fsdo or atc may actually like the question and get them thinking.....that is, if they haven't been bombarded with similar request. But, they need job security too.

Congrats on the 107.
2017-2-1
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hallmark007
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It won't do any harm to contact ATC if your in the area..
2017-2-1
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Jetpilot
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Tip: The post by the administrator or moderators shield
2017-2-1
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fans9e7f2a0f
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Class D airspace extends downward to the surface, there is no underlying Class G.
2017-2-19
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KevDrones
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I called my airport, and there are video that people ask the airport control tower and ask them to fly.
2017-2-19
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RicknCovington
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As heavy as I hear the Part 107 test is, in charts and airspace questions, I am impressed that you passed the test, yet don't seem to have a very good understanding of airspace classification.  As someone has already stated, Class D airspace, as well as Class B and C and occassionally E airspace all extend down to the surface within a 5-mile radius of the airport.  The 5-mile radius boundry is occassionally modified.  Class B and C airspace will have shelves, and can be visualized as upside down wedding cakes, but a class D airspace does not have shelves, and it's ceiling is displayed in a box with one 2-digit number.  If the number is preceded by a minus, that means "upto, but not including".  So, if you are in a Class D airspace, you must get authorization.
2017-2-21
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Mark The Droner
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KM5RG-Robert Posted at 2017-1-31 21:13
I am not 107, but I thought it was 5 miles for everyone. If it is not for 107, I do not know.

It's 5 miles for hobbyists, but my understanding is it's normally 3.5 miles for commercial, although this can vary depending on the airspace class surrounding a particular airport as explained above.  

Commercial guys are supposed to notify online in advance, not call.  
2017-2-22
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107-David
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Sometimes when airspace overlaps its hard to understand what exactly you need to do.  Check out http://remotepilot.us for a clearer view of complex airspace
2017-2-23
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fpvmac
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Check out skyvector.com and look in your area for a better understanding of the airspace you're operating in. Usually, class D airspace has about a 5 mile radius and is controlled from the surface.
2017-3-7
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ptimmins
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Class D is surface to the stated altitude on the shelf. DJI is right. You need to make an airspace request. Do not contact ATC directly. https://www.faa.gov/uas/request_waiver/
2017-3-13
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Texas2Wheeler
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Somewhere above there was a mention to contact the ATC.   From what I read that must of been what was done prior to the latest changes to the laws / perhaps prior to 1074

I found the following information on the FAA's FAQ page at
https://www.faa.gov/uas/faqs/#aa

About half way down the page is the part that reads......

Airspace/Airports

1  How can I tell what class of airspace I'm in?
Under the Small UAS Rule (part 107) (PDF), operators must pass an aeronautical knowledge test to obtain a Remote Pilot Certificate. This test will quiz prospective operators on how to use aeronautical charts to determine airspace classifications.

For reference, aeronautical charts and a Chart User's Guide are also available on the FAA's website. These charts are the FAA's official source of airspace classifications.
Additionally, the FAA's B4UFLY app, which is designed to help recreational UAS flyers know where it's safe to fly, shows users if they are in controlled airspace (Class B, C, D, or E airspaces) in a given or planned location. If the app's status indicator is yellow ("Use Caution – Check Restrictions"), a user is in uncontrolled (Class G) airspace.

2  How do I request permission from Air Traffic Control to operate in Class B, C, D, or E airspace? Is there a way to request permission electronically?
You can request airspace authorization through an online web portal available at www.faa.gov/uas/request_waiver.

3 Can I contact my local air traffic control tower or facility directly to request airspace permission?
No. All airspace permission requests must be made through the online portal.

4  I'm an airport operator and have questions about recreational UAS flying near my airport.
Read the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the Use of Model Aircraft near an Airport for more information.

2017-4-12
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Texas2Wheeler
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-2-22 03:43
It's 5 miles for hobbyists, but my understanding is it's normally 3.5 miles for commercial, although this can vary depending on the airspace class surrounding a particular airport as explained above.  

Commercial guys are supposed to notify online in advance, not call.

What is the link to the FAA website do you find 5 for hobbyists and    3.5 for commercial ?
2017-4-12
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Mark The Droner
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I don't fly Part 107 so I don't know all the rules.  Sorry.

Here's the FAA's summary on Part 107:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Part_107_Summary.pdf

Here's the actual law:

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/tex ... 4cfr107_main_02.tpl

2017-4-13
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ems12a
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ptimmins Posted at 2017-3-13 15:08
Class D is surface to the stated altitude on the shelf. DJI is right. You need to make an airspace request. Do not contact ATC directly. https://www.faa.gov/uas/request_waiver/

This is the problem with information here on this and other forums.

The waiver requests take 90 days I know I have one. So unless you know where you're going to be flying expect to wait 90 days.

I fly part 107 I am licensed. I contact ATC towers directly when I fly in their Class D airspace outside the "Doughnut" (3.5 NM to 5 NM) I don't even bother to ask or fly inside the Doughnut (2.5 or less) need a waiver for this good luck getting it.

Airmap has an auto reporting feature that is going live with more and more Airports every month. 2 of the 5 local Airports in my city are on the Auto Notify. It sends an email directly to the tower with my contact information ,FAA drone reg number, where I am flying how long and how high. If the tower has an issue with it they call me.

I know many towers give the canned message "Go to the FAA website to get authorization". Technically you're not asking for authorization, you're advising the tower you're flying in their air space. If you talk intelligibly with these people they will work with you and you will complete your 107 work without an issue.

I had an airport switch runways to accoodate my commercial shoot. Afther my shoot was over I notified them and they went back to thier main runway.


ATC are not machines, they will work with you.




2017-4-13
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Plane Mack
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ems12a@gmail.co Posted at 2017-4-13 06:54
This is the problem with information here on this and other forums.

The waiver requests take 90 days I know I have one. So unless you know where you're going to be flying expect to wait 90 days.

This is the problem.  The rule is specific about requiring prior authorization when operating in Class B, C, D and surface E airspace.  This means the 90 day waiver/authorization process as it is today.  There are NO exceptions that allow a Part 107 pilot to CALL the tower and ask for permission or notify them of their plans.   That is for Part 101 pilots only.  Without written authorization, in the form of an authorization/waiver,  remote pilots, under 107, can not operate in those areas.....period.  Regardless of what the apps have on them, you can't just click "OK" when you see a prompt and that makes it all good.  There are also no provisions at this time for 3.5 or 5 miles making any difference.  If it's one of the controlled airspaces, PRIOR authorization, not a phone call or app click, is required.
2017-10-24
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Mark The Droner
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I agree.  I believe post #19 is confusing a Part 101 flight with a Part 107 flight as you state.  Good catch on a six month old thread but still a great bump because your info corrects bad info and is valid then and now.  Somebody should have caught this last spring.  Thanks for posting.  
2017-10-24
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flybirdman
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What about a Class G airport?
2017-10-26
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Ebeard4
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flybirdman Posted at 2017-10-26 07:01
What about a Class G airport?

There are no requirements for flying at a class G airport. Just pay attention.
2018-1-10
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M.C. Pilot
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flybirdman Posted at 2017-10-26 07:01
What about a Class G airport?

If your flying in G airspace and within 5 miles of an airport, notify ATC of your location and plan to fly.


https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/model_aircraft/
2018-1-10
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Mark The Droner
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M.C. Pilot Posted at 2018-1-10 14:26
If your flying in G airspace and within 5 miles of an airport, notify ATC of your location and plan to fly.  https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/model_aircraft/

I thought this was a 107 thread... ?  
2018-1-10
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M.C. Pilot
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-1-10 16:00
I thought this was a 107 thread... ?

There a saying from my hood that says, it doesn't you a dime to stay out of __________________.  So the question is who's even asking you.
2018-1-10
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Mark The Droner
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M.C. Pilot Posted at 2018-1-10 16:44
There a saying from my hood that says, it doesn't you a dime to stay out of __________________.  So the question is who's even asking you.

I'm a participant in the thread.  Your post is misleading.  The rule you posted is in regards to 101 pilots.   What's wrong with you???
2018-1-10
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M.C. Pilot
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-1-10 17:07
I'm a participant in the thread.  Your post is misleading.  The rule you posted is in regards to 101 pilots.   What's wrong with you???

...
2018-1-10
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FatherXmas
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fans9e7f2a0f Posted at 2017-2-19 16:32
Class D airspace extends downward to the surface, there is no underlying Class G.

True, but I suspect the OP really meant Class C or B where you have the upside down wedding cake shelves. Everything below the shelf is Class G, unless it falls into another area.
2018-1-10
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FatherXmas
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M.C. Pilot Posted at 2018-1-10 14:26
If your flying in G airspace and within 5 miles of an airport, notify ATC of your location and plan to fly.

The page you referenced is for recreational pilots, not Part 107.
2018-1-10
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M.C. Pilot
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FatherXmas Posted at 2018-1-10 17:30
The page you referenced is for recreational pilots, not Part 107.

Yes that's correct. I was answering #22 re: G space for those folks w/out PT 107. With PT107 cert, as you know different rules applies in G-space.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/part_107/
2018-1-10
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Genghis9
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First this is a resurrected thread, aka zombie thread, which is the reason for the confusion by some...it was originally started based on P107 rules; I would say under normal FAA flight rules.  Airspace does not typically get parsed based on ones qualification etc..  
However the resurrecter of this thread asked or stated a question that can apply to either side of this for uav operators out there.  Ebeard4 stated "There are no requirements for flying at a class G airport. Just pay attention."  
First, this is patently false, while an unrestricted airfield in class G airspace whether an active field or not i.e. an abandoned field which is still marked, you must still honor a 5 SM bubble around it just as MC indicated.  However, who to contact becomes problematic in this instance.  For Class G flying 400' AGL or below, most ATC/RAPCON sites could care less about it as you are well out of their sphere of control and most likely not even covered by their radar coverage.  Since the field does not have a tower, you are only left with coordinating with the airfield owner or operator which could be a farmer if they are running crop dusting ops out of it or just a private aircraft owner who infrequently flies out of there or it could be abandoned.
Regardless of the case, hobbyist should attempt to avoid such areas as much as possible or ensure they coordinate with whomever possible, while 107 operators should exercise caution and conduct as much due diligence as is humanely possible since their ticket depends on it.  
First rule of thumb with this stuff, it is already complicated enough without even trying, don't make it more complicated if you do not have too.
2018-1-10
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Genghis9
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M.C. Pilot Posted at 2018-1-10 16:44
There a saying from my hood that says, it doesn't you a dime to stay out of __________________.  So the question is who's even asking you.

Forgive me, I have to ask...what in the heck does this mean?
"There a saying from my hood that says, it doesn't you a dime to stay out of __________________.  So the question is who's even asking you."

While I can infer some meaning from it, basically I have no clue what you said there???
2018-1-10
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M.C. Pilot
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-1-10 19:01
First this is a resurrected thread, aka zombie thread, which is the reason for the confusion by some...it was originally started based on P107 rules; I would say under normal FAA flight rules.  Airspace does not typically get parsed based on ones qualification etc..  
However the resurrecter of this thread asked or stated a question that can apply to either side of this for uav operators out there.  Ebeard4 stated "There are no requirements for flying at a class G airport. Just pay attention."  
First, this is patently false, while an unrestricted airfield in class G airspace whether an active field or not i.e. an abandoned field which is still marked, you must still honor a 5 SM bubble around it just as MC indicated.  However, who to contact becomes problematic in this instance.  For Class G flying 400' AGL or below, most ATC/RAPCON sites could care less about it as you are well out of their sphere of control and most likely not even covered by their radar coverage.  Since the field does not have a tower, you are only left with coordinating with the airfield owner or operator which could be a farmer if they are running crop dusting ops out of it or just a private aircraft owner who infrequently flies out of there or it could be abandoned.

"while an unrestricted airfield in class G airspace whether an active field or not i.e. an abandoned field which is still marked, you must still honor a 5 SM bubble around it".

Exactly my point. Either way pilot still needs to honor that radius. Those who continue to disregard ruin it for the rest of us so I good message to spread.
2018-1-11
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M.C. Pilot
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Genghis9 Posted at 2018-1-10 19:03
Forgive me, I have to ask...what in the heck does this mean?
"There a saying from my hood that says, it doesn't you a dime to stay out of __________________.  So the question is who's even asking you."

Hey Genghis, it's a riddle:

It doesn't cost you a dime to stay out of mine. Which means ? ....mind yours.


2018-1-11
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M.C. Pilot
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I'm a PT 107 holder and I still honor that 5 mile radius in the G-space even if I'm flying as a hobbyist.
It's just being a responsible safe pilot in command.
2018-1-11
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Mark The Droner
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M.C. Pilot Posted at 2018-1-11 05:12
I'm a PT 107 holder and I still honor that 5 mile radius in the G-space even if I'm flying as a hobbyist.
It's just being a responsible safe pilot in command.

Your posts continue to confuse me.  Of course you are going to honor the 5 mile radius if you're flying as a hobbyist.  You will honor it because the law requires you to honor it.  It's not like you're doing anybody a favor.  

Maybe what you meant to say is "I'm a PT 107 holder and I still honor that 5 mile radius in the G-space even if I'm flying as a Part 107 pilot."  But you'd still be flying 107 which means you'd have to go through the online procedure for requesting authority to fly.  But in Class G, you already have authority to fly.    So this doesn't make sense either.

This started off as a 107 thread, and it didn't become a hobbyist thread until you started posting hobbyist links and hobbyist rules which is only confusing the rest of us.  
2018-1-11
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Genghis9
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-1-11 05:59
Your posts continue to confuse me.  Of course you are going to honor the 5 mile radius if you're flying as a hobbyist.  You will honor it because the law requires you to honor it.  It's not like you're doing anybody a favor.  

Maybe what you meant to say is "I'm a PT 107 holder and I still honor that 5 mile radius in the G-space even if I'm flying as a Part 107 pilot."  But you'd still be flying 107 which means you'd have to go through the online procedure for requesting authority to fly.  But in Class G, you already have authority to fly.    So this doesn't make sense either.

He was responding to a post made recently where it seems to point toward a person that would not be P107, if they were they would not have made the comment the way they did.  So, he answered it in that way, nothing more.  The rule is the same either way here.
This thread was so dead as it was, it really doesn't matter anymore.  However, it has at least generated discussion about an important subject.
Your part about getting or going through the on-line process has absolutely nothing to do with the FAA rule.  That has only to do with DJI's geo fence crap.  As you correctly pointed out, you already have the "authority" by the FAA to fly in G space which does not require any further action by you in that case, except where there may be a field in that space (which was covered above).  However, the geo fence treats many airfields as if they were something other than G even if they are not.  Most times for unrestricted fields the Go App will warn you of flying near such fields and it requires no further action on your part.  While others may be yellow and will require you to unlock the field through a relatively straightforward step.  If by chance they are marking it red then you have to go through a formal process with DJI to get the darn thing opened, even if you have the ability to do so already.  There in lies the problem with that fencing process, it is and has been flawed in the way it marks airfields both geographically and status wise (i.e. I've seen fields with active control towers, that should be marked red when they are yellow, I suspect they were that way because they were not 24 hour ops).  Either way, the FAA grants authority to fly in whatever airspace within the borders and territories of the USA, not DJI; they do not have that power other than locking your property through SW means.
2018-1-11
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Genghis9
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M.C. Pilot Posted at 2018-1-11 05:08
Hey Genghis, it's a riddle:

It doesn't cost you a dime to stay out of mine. Which means ? ....mind yours.

Ah, now that you explain it I can see!
First I thought it was really bad English or typos of some sort...
2018-1-11
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Mark The Droner
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Now I'm double confused.

This is not a DJI Geo fence thread.  It has nothing to do with DJI or their geo fences.  This is a 107 thread.  You can tell because it says "107" in the title.  

You write:  He was responding to a post made recently where it seems to point toward a person that would not be P107, if they were they would not have made the comment the way they did.  So, he answered it in that way, nothing more.  The rule is the same either way here.

He was responding to post #22.   Post #22 had nothing to do with recreational flying.

I don't understand what you mean when you say "The rule is the same either way here."  Since when?  The rule is certainly not the same.  It's not even remotely the same.  From this statement, I don't even know if we're talking about the same rule.

You post with great confidence and authority so I assume you must have a 107 certificate, but the information you provide flies in the face of what I already know.  I've been reading posts about this for over a year.  Still, I admit I know very little about 107 since I'm not certified.

The five mile notification rule is in regards to flying as a hobbyist.  It has nothing to do with 107.  Do you not agree?

You state:  Your part about getting or going through the on-line process has absolutely nothing to do with the FAA rule.

How can that be?  See this page here:   https://www.faa.gov/uas/request_waiver/

Are you saying this info provided on the FAA site is incorrect?  

If so, do you have a link or a reference?  

And how would you, as a Part 107 pilot, acquire authorization, if not by doing it online?

I know you guys know more than me, I'm just an idiot hobbyist.  You guys are the experts.  So straighten me out.

Thanks






2018-1-11
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