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Kopteristi
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I've seen message "inconsistent firmwares" (I'm not sure if it was exactly this from word to word) at startup. It has gone away after reboot of everything and restarting remote first, aircraft second. This message has occurred right after reboot and in air all has been good.
Perhaps this has nothing to do with crashes discussed here but told anyway as this doesn't sound correct.
2017-2-7
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Kopteristi
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Kopteristi Posted at 2017-2-7 03:43
I've seen message "inconsistent firmwares" (I'm not sure if it was exactly this from word to word) at startup. It has gone away after reboot of everything and restarting remote first, aircraft second. This message has occurred right after reboot and in air all has been good.
Perhaps this has nothing to do with crashes discussed here but told anyway as this doesn't sound correct.

One note more: "inconsistent firmwares" message dialog had a button for update, named somehow which I don't remember.  I never tried what it updates and instead ignored message and rebooted. This message dialog was rectangle shaped independent and not same we have seen earlier with startup checklist.
2017-2-7
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HeliEngadin
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We had a customer with this exact issue.
Following closely the #rebootGate, hope it gets sorted out soon...
2017-2-7
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aviscomi
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Subscribed for updates on this issue
2017-2-7
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fansc8c27ed9
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Canada
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I have flown my I2 on 3 different pairs of batteries a few times each, no issues so far.  All the batteries were purchased at different times and its never asked me to do an update.  yes, now I am worried...
2017-2-7
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fansc8c27ed9
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dldp-sp Posted at 2017-2-6 00:55
Ok, just so we are clear here, there are 4 known incidents of motors stopping.

1: The YouTube video where the user was flying with one battery.

Do we have any update yet??
2017-2-7
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fansc8c27ed9
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fansc8c27ed9 Posted at 2017-2-7 08:38
Do we have any update yet??

I am wondering the same thing.. I am sure many are.
2017-2-7
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eggbeater
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DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-2-6 22:08
I'm sorry to hear. Just to make sure I'm on the same page, you have gotten in contact with DJI to have it sent in for further analysis and repair?

Yes its been reported and I'm waiting for my return shipping labels.  There doesn't seem to be too much concern from DJI though as if its a routine problem.  If I were a rep from DJI and I saw this report I would make it a priority to see the wreckage and flight log in order to prevent this from happening to other Creators.
2017-2-7
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DJI-Jamie
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eggbeater Posted at 2017-2-7 08:45
Yes its been reported and I'm waiting for my return shipping labels.  There doesn't seem to be too much concern from DJI though as if its a routine problem.  If I were a rep from DJI and I saw this report I would make it a priority to see the wreckage and flight log in order to prevent this from happening to other Creators.

How long of delay are you receiving from Support? If you have a ticket or case number, I can look into it.
2017-2-7
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eggbeater
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DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-2-7 09:27
How long of delay are you receiving from Support? If you have a ticket or case number, I can look into it.

CAS-438854-D9GY3
Wouldnt say there is a delay just yet as Im waiting for the shipping labels to arrive via snail mail when I should just have been able to go down and ship yesterday with out waiting two to three days for mail while more machines fall out of the sky.

I know there is a process for this and I am patient but I don't want our industry to suffer because someone got hurt or property damaged so there is more regulations and government scrutiny because of delays in the process.

I would have sent someone to pick up the wreckage and start looking into right away not wait until the customer gets around to sending it back!  In a full sized aircraft I'm sure the manufacturer doesnt start the investigation when the customer sends the wreckage back for repair.  

DJI needs a team to jump on these reports as soon as they happen in order to issue a fix right away to protect other creators and DJIs reputation.
2017-2-7
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DJI-Jamie
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eggbeater Posted at 2017-2-7 09:53
CAS-438854-D9GY3
Wouldnt say there is a delay just yet as Im waiting for the shipping labels to arrive via snail mail when I should just have been able to go down and ship yesterday with out waiting two to three days for mail while more machines fall out of the sky.

The shipping labels come via email. Given the time that the RMA was created, you should expect it in your inbox shortly. I've also checked with the Support team to make sure it arrives in a timely manner.
2017-2-7
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eggbeater
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DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-2-7 12:35
The shipping labels come via email. Given the time that the RMA was created, you should expect it in your inbox shortly. I've also checked with the Support team to make sure it arrives in a timely manner.

Its been shipped.
Thank you
2017-2-7
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DJI-Jamie
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eggbeater Posted at 2017-2-7 13:44
Its been shipped.
Thank you

Good to hear! You'll be up and running again in no time.
2017-2-7
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Farnk666
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Operating with two new batteries that hadn't been FW version checked. This should have been part of the pre-flight checklist, or at the very least checked on the bench before flight.

Pilot made the assumption that all would be well - it clearly wasn't. However in Aviation assumptions cannot be made. Any new part added to the airframe needs to be safely tested before flight and a checklist followed before takeoff to ensure that the aircraft is ready to fly.

Any FW update process undertaken by the operator needs to involve all parts. cameras, batteries, RCs, and airframe.
Success/fail of update needs to be logged, errors found and fixed. The update is not complete until ALL items are successfully completed.
Post update process of IMU and Compass cals as standard procedure.

Adding new items to stock requires that a pro-active check is done to ensure that everything is operating as expected and versions are correct.
The time to do this is at home and on the bench, not just before flight.

Sorry for the OP, but this is an expensive lesson in appropriate flight and maintenance procedures.
2017-2-7
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eggbeater
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Farnk666 Posted at 2017-2-7 15:16
Operating with two new batteries that hadn't been FW version checked. This should have been part of the pre-flight checklist, or at the very least checked on the bench before flight.

Pilot made the assumption that all would be well - it clearly wasn't. However in Aviation assumptions cannot be made. Any new part added to the airframe needs to be safely tested before flight and a checklist followed before takeoff to ensure that the aircraft is ready to fly.

Good for you Frank.  Hindsight is always twenty twenty.  Im so glad you figured out what happened before DJI even got a chance to look at the bird.   This was about the twentieth time I flew this machine with three other sets of new batteries that weren't tested on the bench.  Even if they were how can you be sure problems didn't wouldn't show up during flight when the real test comes.  Tell me how to check flight current load on the bench?  A bench test is a static test, nothing is under load or the condition that could cause a flight anomaly.  How do you do a range check on the bench or do you just make an assumption?  
2017-2-7
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KNOTENOUGH
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Did you have it on record at the time of fall?
2017-2-7
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eggbeater
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KNOTENOUGH Posted at 2017-2-7 17:44
Did you have it on record at the time of fall?

Flight data record ends while aircraft is 42 feet off the ground in a stable hover I would imagine it lost power at the moment it stopping writing data.  DJI will tell me what happened I'm sure.  
2017-2-7
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dldp-sp
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eggbeater Posted at 2017-2-7 17:53
Flight data record ends while aircraft is 42 feet off the ground in a stable hover I would imagine it lost power at the moment it stopping writing data.  DJI will tell me what happened I'm sure.

I have one quick question for you. You mentioned that there was an unauthorized update during your flight. You also mentioned that your iPad mini was in airplane mode. Was your Samsung Note also in airplane mode? Is it possible that the update was already on your device and it pushed it to the aircraft? I am trying to determine if flying with WiFi or cell data turned on is really an issue or not.

Regards,
Tom
2017-2-8
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Farnk666
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eggbeater Posted at 2017-2-7 17:33
Good for you Frank.  Hindsight is always twenty twenty.  Im so glad you figured out what happened before DJI even got a chance to look at the bird.   This was about the twentieth time I flew this machine with three other sets of new batteries that weren't tested on the bench.  Even if they were how can you be sure problems didn't wouldn't show up during flight when the real test comes.  Tell me how to check flight current load on the bench?  A bench test is a static test, nothing is under load or the condition that could cause a flight anomaly.  How do you do a range check on the bench or do you just make an assumption?

No, you specifically mentioned two factors.

1 - the aircraft lost power due to performing an "unauthorised firmware update" whilst in flight.
2 - you were using two 'new' batteries.

If the cause of the impact was a loss of power due to a reboot from the update process' completion then consideration needs to be made of what factor led to the A/C performing that operation.

To make things perfectly clear - the question is.
At what stage did you last initiate a firmware update on the aircraft - and did this update process include all the batteries?

And if not - at any stage before flight, did you install the two 'new' batteries into the aircraft to check that they were loaded with firmware that was compatible with the Aircraft's firmware?

If you had done that basic check then we need to look elsewhere.

2017-2-8
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eggbeater
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dldp-sp Posted at 2017-2-8 00:39
I have one quick question for you. You mentioned that there was an unauthorized update during your flight. You also mentioned that your iPad mini was in airplane mode. Was your Samsung Note also in airplane mode? Is it possible that the update was already on your device and it pushed it to the aircraft? I am trying to determine if flying with WiFi or cell data turned on is really an issue or not.

Regards,

Android device in non cellular and wifi was turned off,  Additionally we were far away from WIFI.
2017-2-8
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eggbeater
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Farnk666 Posted at 2017-2-8 02:01
No, you specifically mentioned two factors.

1 - the aircraft lost power due to performing an "unauthorised firmware update" whilst in flight.

Is this battery check software compatibility a procedure recommended by the manufacturer before flight?  

The only action I know from the manufacturer is called plug and play, as I charged the batteries when I got them and when I installed them on the aircraft I got 99% charged and the go fly message.  

Is there is a recommended factory procedure somewhere where I can read that describes the bench check you suggest?

Im trying to understand your suggestion that this was the result of a pilot procedure error because I didn't perform a procedure that is neither suggested nor recommended by the manufacturer.  

Your lack of response to the range check question on the bench indicates to me you are a troll preferring to deflect a question you have no idea how to answer.  

Do you really think it should work this way, that the flight system has the ability to perform a software update in flight, authorized or not that results in a hard boot the first time you use a set of batteries?  

How would you know a new software update hasn't been issued by DJI between the time done you've  done your bench check the day  or hour before flight.  

How would you ever be able to trust an inflight automatic software update again.  

The automatic software update must be a seamless worry free process that doesn't result in a power loss when performed inflight if its allowed to proceed while flying.

BTW.  A software update has initiated before in flight without loss of power for me.

Has there been a new Firmware release?  

Whats the difference between software and firmware Frank?

2017-2-8
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JBSonic
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Why would anyone ever do a firmware update mid-flight ??
I agree with the above comments, did you do all the calibration and firmware checks for the I2 as well as ALL the batteries that you have?
You do this before you go flying, you check every battery for firmware updates, once they are up to date, then you go fly.

If you take new batteries out of the box and go flying immediately, that is your fault. Don't do this.
2017-2-8
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userf1d95a1ea1
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I don't care what was or wasn't done before flight. An update should never automatically push while in flight, ever. That was a catastrophic system error and dji better get a handle on it because I'm reading elsewhere that this is happening, only its happening while on the ground, luckily so. An update should never auto push without the user being able to acknowledge and launch the update and it should never happen during flight. Something is very wrong with this situation and I'm keeping a close eye on the outcome.
2017-2-8
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eggbeater
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JBSonic Posted at 2017-2-8 08:17
Why would anyone ever do a firmware update mid-flight ??
I agree with the above comments, did you do all the calibration and firmware checks for the I2 as well as ALL the batteries that you have?
You do this before you go flying, you check every battery for firmware updates, once they are up to date, then you go fly.

Of course not I would never take new batteries out of the box to fly.  I charge them first to bring them up to full charge and fly as indicated by the "go fly" message on the Go Fly App.   Where is the proper preflight procedure for the TB50 in the manufacturer instructions?   Stop saying there is a specific preflight checklist when there isn't one specified by the manufacturer.  Did you just make one up?  If so are you sure you got it right, oh and BTW what is a proper range check for this aircraft system?
2017-2-8
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JBSonic
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eggbeater Posted at 2017-2-8 09:15
Of course not I would never take new batteries out of the box to fly.  I charge them first to bring them up to full charge and fly as indicated by the "go fly" message on the Go Fly App.   Where is the proper preflight procedure for the TB50 in the manufacturer instructions?   Stop saying there is a specific preflight checklist when there isn't one specified by the manufacturer.  Did you just make one up?  If so are you sure you got it right, oh and BTW what is a proper range check for this aircraft system?

No, it goes without saying that checking battery firmware version is part of the PRE FLIGHT CHECKLIST.
How do I know that? I did a RPQ-S course to properly learn how to work with such tools.

You don't seem to have done this, I don't understand why you choose the Inspire platform, it is clearly aimed at professionals. The thing with professional hardware is that it DOESNT hold your hand, consumer friendly devices DO.
I shoot with film cameras too, my £10k Sony FS7 camera is for professionals and guess what, there is no 'Auto shooting mode'. Everything is manual, it expects you to know what you are doing, because it is aimed at professionals, you see the correlation ?

You should be getting the Phantom 2 Pro, a Consumer product aimed at NON-professionals, I am sure that platform will hold your hand and go through everything as one would expect.

DJI flight batteries have had firmware updates since the Phantom 2. It is common knowledge that these batteries do get firmware updates and it is vitally important to check this first BEFORE flight.

Taking batteries out of the box, charging them and flying is wrong.
You take them out of the box, charge them and then check their firmware, THEN you fly.

Simple as that.

WHY does the Inspire FORCE the update on you? It could be that the battery firmware is very important, maybe there is a problem with the new Inspire 2 firmware and the OLD battery firmware which can cause problems. So the aircraft forces the update.

In summary: check EVERY firmware for EVERY component before flight, NEVER assume that the batteries you just bought are up to date, they are not, they have been sitting in a warehouse several months probably.
2017-2-8
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eggbeater
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JBSonic Posted at 2017-2-8 09:26
No, it goes without saying that checking battery firmware version is part of the PRE FLIGHT CHECKLIST.
How do I know that? I did a RPQ-S course to properly learn how to work with such tools.

Did that RPQ course teach you how to do a range check?
How about it?  DJI is there a need to preflight test the batteries and if so what is the proper procedure for this?  


2017-2-8
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JBSonic
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eggbeater Posted at 2017-2-8 09:32
Did that RPQ course teach you how to do a range check?
How about it?  DJI is there a need to preflight test the batteries and if so what is the proper procedure for this?

No, let me ask you this, Eggbeater, What is the maximum allowed range for the operation of an unmanned aerial system under FAA AND CAA regulation?

Let me help you out, it is 500 meters, or what is called flying within visual range.

The Inspire 2 can definitely fly further than 500 meters, but you are not allowed to that. So checking for range is irrelevant, and ILLEGAL.

Any other questions?
2017-2-8
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eggbeater
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JBSonic Posted at 2017-2-8 09:38
No, let me ask you this, Eggbeater, What is the maximum allowed range for the operation of an unmanned aerial system under FAA AND CAA regulation?

Let me help you out, it is 500 meters, or what is called flying within visual range.

Please tell me where that 500 meter rule is in part 107.  

What about using a VO to help maintain VLOS?

How could a range check be illegal if performed on the ground?
The FAA decided a best use for sUAS would be tower inspection in order to reduce danger so they decided not to make a 500 meter limit on distance.

A list of the tallest structures in USA that are at least 350 meters, ordered by height.
Height (m)
Structure
Location
628.8 mKVLY-TV mastBlanchard, North Dakota
627.9 mKXJB-TV mastGalesburg, North Dakota
624.5 mKXTV/KOVR towerWalnut Grove, California
610 mPetronius PlatformGulf of Mexico
245 more rows

DJIs 500 meter limit doesnt allow this use so It kicks the Inspire 2 out of the professional range for this particular application.
Visual Line of Sight Operations (VLOS): Visual Line of Sight is termed as being the maximum distance that the flight crew is able to maintain separation and collision avoidance, under the prevailing atmospheric conditions, with the unaided eye (other than corrective lenses). For flights within Line of Sight, the pilot is required to employ the See – and – Avoid principle through continued observation of the aircraft, and the airspace around it, with respect to other aircraft and objects. Within the UK, Visual Line of Sight operations are normally accepted out to a maximum distance of 500 m horizontally, and 400 ft vertically, from the pilot.


2017-2-8
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iKell Aerial
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RE: WARNING INSPIRE 2 fell out of sky

JBSonic Posted at 2017-2-8 09:26
No, it goes without saying that checking battery firmware version is part of the PRE FLIGHT CHECKLIST.
How do I know that? I did a RPQ-S course to properly learn how to work with such tools.

Since when is trolling ever "professional"?
2017-2-8
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WYHSniper1007
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Is that might be quality issues?
2017-2-8
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Wolfman
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JBSonic Posted at 2017-2-8 09:26
No, it goes without saying that checking battery firmware version is part of the PRE FLIGHT CHECKLIST.
How do I know that? I did a RPQ-S course to properly learn how to work with such tools.

Hi JB,

I guess it is easy to apply hind sight and point the finger but I think this is detracting from the main issue:

Whilst in flight,  software updates should not initiate by themselves!!

I wish I had confidence in any of DJI's updates - they usually fix one thing and cause issues with another 3. That is why many here are flying with older software versions until we know later versions do not cause issues. The I1 had the best software platform at V1.3, after that everything slowly went backwards.

I remember reading in the DJI Inspire manual to never perform a software update during flight. I fell of my chair reading this as it seemed such a basic and stupid thing to state YET it seems this has occurred without operator action to initiate it.

YES, if checked, OP probably had had software updates required messages prior to flight. Electing to fly with this message should not instigate the update process when airborne.

Eggbeater, hopefully DJI can shed some light as to what occurred. From my past dealings though, they will simply replace/repair unit with no explanation and sneak in an undocumented fix into the next firmware update. Interested to know how it ends up.

Regards Wolf

2017-2-8
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fanse186c04e
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Cougar1 Posted at 2017-2-5 10:20
Thank you for the follow up, was that the first time you flew with the new batteries, if so they would update to what was latest fw for them, that might have been what happened.
Edit: Have to say that DJI needs to address this, no fw update should ever be happening during flight regardless, if that is what actually happend!
Note: the fw for batteries is stored on the I2 itself so when flying with new batteries they will update to current regardless of internet or not. Best is always to cycle trough a couple of times on the ground when using new/unused batteries.

what do you see or hear when new batteries are updating?

Can you explain?

Thanks
2017-2-8
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Farnk666
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eggbeater Posted at 2017-2-8 06:27
Is this battery check software compatibility a procedure recommended by the manufacturer before flight?  

The only action I know from the manufacturer is called plug and play, as I charged the batteries when I got them and when I installed them on the aircraft I got 99% charged and the go fly message.  

Seriously?

If you expect to have every aspect of appropriate and best practice flight operations spelled out in the manual (from any manufacturer, let alone DJI) then you will be nothing but disappointed.

I'm sorry dude, We understand that you are hurting but lashing out to people who are responding to your post doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Any time spent here on the forums or over at RC Groups and other SUAS or general aviation communities will quickly uncover the practices that all pilots take to mitigate risk. I understand that you don't believe this is relevant to your experience and that all you are feeling is hurt due to DJI's systems and processes.

As a community, we have all been affected by 'issues' (large and small) with implementations of tech in SUAS - how we manage the unknown is to be pro-active and play a role in situational awareness that goes beyond what is in the manual.

I hope that you get a positive outcome and in time understand what we are seeking to explore here.
2017-2-8
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userf1d95a1ea1
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What should be noted is to carefully check for updates before flight. What should be *explored* is dji finding the systems failure to allow an auto update during flight. I could have the bird and controller on for a full three minutes at home prior to flight to confirm the system is ready for flight. I could power up the system in the field and have no indication of a pending update. When an update auto pushes in flight causing a catastrophic failure, at what point did I have a reasonable expectation that it was all systems go for that doomed flight? I believe anything other than seeking the system failure is completely beyond the point. If you regularly fly dji gear, you know you can hold back updating anything until such time you wish to update, and still fly without a problem ever during flight... until now. This is the problem.
2017-2-8
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eggbeater
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fanse186c04e Posted at 2017-2-8 14:18
what do you see or hear when new batteries are updating?

Can you explain?

I received a message that software downloading while I was flying.  The cause of that message is still under investigation.  All I can say is if you see a download while flying land asap.  Even if you bench tested everything an hour before you can never be sure DJI hasn't pushed a new software download for whatever system needs an update while you are flying.  

How do you check the version numbers on the batteries?
2017-2-8
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Arrow1969
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Farnk666 Posted at 2017-2-8 14:33
Seriously?

If you expect to have every aspect of appropriate and best practice flight operations spelled out in the manual (from any manufacturer, let alone DJI) then you will be nothing but disappointed.

Totally agree with your Farnk666 excellent post
2017-2-8
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Dr Jon
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I received another delivery from DJI yesterday and spent sometime trying to see why there has been a differences of opinion about the "battery firmware" updates.

I followed the DJI update "using your R/C" to update I2 firmware.

Once i had received the message of new firmware on the iPad within DJI GO 4 i clicked and accepted followed buy the downloading message and then uploading to the I2.

This was followed by a series of beeps from the I2 after which the I2 rebooted.

All okay so far ... so one battery set updated.

but i deliberately didn't update the second set of batteries instead i took the I2 outside powered up and did all the normal pre flight checks and did a short flight of about 15 minutes and then landed.

At this point I quickly inserted the second set of batteries and flew the I2 to about 3 metre. There was no message on the iPad screen just the normal camera display, when i had gone in to hover the I2 I heard the same beeping that I heard during the first set of battery update. I quickly landed the I2 but kept the props spinning at ground level. (I didn't switch to flight mode so didn't need to wait from them to lower)

I waited and after a short delay the I2 rebooted. NO warning on the iPad .....

I think the issue is that once the confirmation of permission to update firmware has been given to the I2 it assumes it can do this again anytime as and when new battery sets are inserted regardless of what the I2 is actually doing !!

So my learning points here.

1) when the firmware update is shown on the GO 4 it doesn't say this is a BATTERY FIRMWARE UPDATE so this would trigger a reaction to update all batteries sets. (but see point 3 below)

2) On my previous DJI drones, firmware updates have always been from an SD card on to which i would downloaded "along with release notes" so know what i had to do.

3) Whilst the I2 updates are now stored within the I2 itself and at any time it could apply this to any new set of batteries inserted, so maybe 6 months you could have forgotten this would happen!!

4) A software release note is MANDATORY (this is an "aircraft" and FAA requires this to be completed) and should this be displayed before the update starts. A warning note should say "REBOOT is required" after update is completed but not force the update. I hate WINDOWS but at least it does say reboot is required and you can chose when tis happens!!         

My suggestion is that DJI needs to simulate exactly the same as i have done...

Maybe a simple warning for EACH and every Battery sets inserted  which can be overruled if required.  
2017-2-8
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Dr Jon
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dldp-sp Posted at 2017-2-7 01:05
I agree, they have been interesting. I am still wondering why dr jon's post was removed or, self deleted. Any insight on this dr jon?

Tom,

Please take a look at response 77"  
2017-2-8
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Mikey.C
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For what it is worth i do agree slightly with frank on pre flight checks etc but you surely have to question a manufacture esp paying 6k a drone that ''Updates mid flight'' REALLY......????????
2017-2-8
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Dr Jon
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Mikey.C Posted at 2017-2-8 22:12
For what it is worth i do agree slightly with frank on pre flight checks etc but you surely have to question a manufacture esp paying 6k a drone that ''Updates mid flight'' REALLY......????????

I think its a bug in their process / software.

Easy to fix.
2017-2-8
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