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Water color sharping Issue!
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Ex Machina
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DRONE-flies-YOU Posted at 2017-2-15 13:10
Try 0 0 0 & D-Log now.  It's nothing like the previous, unusable D-Log that showed gradients (especially the sky).  

However with those settings, I'm seeing blue & red speckles (noise) in RAW DNG stills.  Like, the really bad kind of noise.  The RAWs look processed!  I'm not super worried, as I've got Topaz Denoise (incredible software).  But it'd be handy if video & photo settings could be separated completely.  

Huh? How can that be -- RAW should be RAW, completely unprocessed.
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Im  it able to open the PDF :-(
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chriztian Posted at 2017-2-15 13:19
Im  it able to open the PDF :-(

ok works now. Well to understand you correctly. This paper says that I basically can't use 1080p > 30fps for filming as it is for fpv. So this means I actually can only shoot with 30fps?

What if I want to do slowmo video? And why do you do marketing with saying it is capable of doing proper 60fps video?
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Ex Machina Posted at 2017-2-15 13:14
Huh? How can that be -- RAW should be RAW, completely unprocessed.

Right?  0 0 0 D-Log DNG SAMPLE:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfa4n8rvb75hvh5/DJI_0164.DNG?dl=0
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chriztian Posted at 2017-2-15 13:30
ok works now. Well to understand you correctly. This paper says that I basically can't use 1080p > 30fps for filming as it is for fpv. So this means I actually can only shoot with 30fps?

What if I want to do slowmo video? And why do you do marketing with saying it is capable of doing proper 60fps video?

Yes, you are correct (it sucks) on everything you said.  Nothing above 30fps!  It's for the yet-to-be-released DJI Goggles with twin 1080 displays.
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DRONE-flies-YOU Posted at 2017-2-15 12:59
No, 48 does it too.  Again, anything over 30.  This is really unfortunate.

Ah I thought 48 was good. I don't really mess with > 30fps, guess the pdf that ken posted gives a good reason why the option is there. They have it in for the crystalsky googles.
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thehippoz Posted at 2017-2-15 13:43
Ah I thought 48 was good. I don't really mess with > 30fps, guess the pdf that ken posted gives a good reason why the option is there. They have it in for the crystalsky googles.

Knew about all this back in October (even had that PDF from then).  This just gets recycled like other threads.  
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thehippoz Posted at 2017-2-15 13:43
Ah I thought 48 was good. I don't really mess with > 30fps, guess the pdf that ken posted gives a good reason why the option is there. They have it in for the crystalsky googles.

WHOA!!!  Great name!  We've only heard the ingenious "DJI Goggles" moniker.

"CrystalSky Goggles"
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DRONE-flies-YOU Posted at 2017-2-15 13:50
WHOA!!!  Great name!  We've only heard the ingenious "DJI Goggles" moniker.

"CrystalSky Goggles"

lol
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I can't believe this is the case. If so, why do you do marketing with 1080p/96 fps??
See the website:
>> It is equipped with a 1/2.3 inch CMOS image sensor, commonly found in professional sports cameras, and an aerial imaging optimized integrated lens with an equivalent focal length of 28mm. It shoots smooth 4K video at 30fps, 1080P video at 96fps and 12-megapixel photos.

Dji-ken, could you confirm that 1080p >60 fps is NOT for filming? And if so could you please explain why the website states that I can uses this fps?
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DRONE-flies-YOU Posted at 2017-2-15 13:36
Right?  0 0 0 D-Log DNG SAMPLE:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfa4n8rvb75hvh5/DJI_0164.DNG?dl=0

Guess I can't recognize color grade/profiles by sight, just looks kind of dark to me -- I'd need a comparison where the color setting was on normal.

Suppose I wouldn't be surprised to see the effect on jpgs, but RAW should be completely neutral.
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no-flyzone Posted at 2017-2-15 11:20
Who’s talking about 1080????   were talking about why do you need to do a cold reset to get sharp images and video???????     DO tell I see you banned the truth on this forum you banned a customer that did care enough to test and show and give a work around and you banned him from this forum !   How sad that is !   Ken you’re a real peace of work!  An Dji should be ashamed !     I have seen the water color effect on the Video that are online !      Is funny Any time someone brings attention to a issue with DJI the bank them!

The post I responded was referring to moire so I post a PDF that explained it.
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chriztian Posted at 2017-2-15 13:52
I can't believe this is the case. If so, why do you do marketing with 1080p/96 fps??
See the website:
>> It is equipped with a 1/2.3 inch CMOS image sensor, commonly found in professional sports cameras, and an aerial imaging optimized integrated lens with an equivalent focal length of 28mm. It shoots smooth 4K video at 30fps, 1080P video at 96fps and 12-megapixel photos.

It is for firming but will produce the effects stated in the PDF when used 60fps or more.
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DRONE-flies-YOU Posted at 2017-2-15 13:04
Yea we all have bad days & might write something we shouldn't.  But even after he was warned, he became very uncouth about everything.

like how was he being bad  he was just speaking the truth?
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no-flyzone Posted at 2017-2-15 14:18
like how was he being bad  he was just speaking the truth?

Posts get deleted if the forum rules are not followed, it has nothing to do with the DJI product, it's the way posts are written that they are deleted.
Please read the forum rules and post accordingly. If you cannot read it in it's entirity then the "Threads and Posts" section should be read.
http://forum.dji.com/thread-71515-1-1.html
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Ex Machina Posted at 2017-2-15 14:06
Guess I can't recognize color grade/profiles by sight, just looks kind of dark to me -- I'd need a comparison where the color setting was on normal.

Suppose I wouldn't be surprised to see the effect on jpgs, but RAW should be completely neutral.

Yeah it's probably a old version of camera raw he's using. That photo is perfect on my end drone.

Oh I see kinda what you mean in the corner. It's not bad though.

rawsamp.jpg
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-15 14:22
Posts get deleted if the forum rules are not followed, it has nothing to do with the DJI product, it's the way posts are written that they are deleted.
Please read the forum rules and post accordingly. If you cannot read it in it's entirity then the "Threads and Posts" section should be read.
http://forum.dji.com/thread-71515-1-1.html

you spend more time dictating this forum than helping people find solutions as your only solution is SEND IT IN!
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thehippoz Posted at 2017-2-15 14:28
Yeah it's probably a old version of camera raw he's using. That photo is perfect on my end drone.

Oh I see kinda what you mean in the corner. It's not bad though.

I've got the latest Mac Lightroom.  I should have the newest CR for Photoshop, but I never use that (that's why I've got LR).

But looking at that zoomed-in (4x?), that looks fine to me too.  In LR, it sure shows like someone did a horrible job of editing already...  It's weird.  The red & blue speckles are by the thousands all over.  OK, so I've have a closer look at this in PS using CR.  This looks promising, thanks!  
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DRONE-flies-YOU Posted at 2017-2-15 14:45
I've got the latest Mac Lightroom.  I should have the newest CR for Photoshop, but I never use that (that's why I've got LR).

But looking at that zoomed-in (4x?), that looks fine to me too.  In LR, it sure shows like someone did a horrible job of editing already...  It's weird.  The red & blue speckles are by the thousands all over.  OK, so I've have a closer look at this in PS using CR.  This looks promising, thanks!

Yeah noticed like some older software, you get that looking at raw. I don't know why but see blue and red speckles. I know what you mean though.
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DRONE-flies-YOU Posted at 2017-2-15 14:45
I've got the latest Mac Lightroom.  I should have the newest CR for Photoshop, but I never use that (that's why I've got LR).

But looking at that zoomed-in (4x?), that looks fine to me too.  In LR, it sure shows like someone did a horrible job of editing already...  It's weird.  The red & blue speckles are by the thousands all over.  OK, so I've have a closer look at this in PS using CR.  This looks promising, thanks!

In Lightroom I see the noise if I drop the Color NR slider down to zero, but at 50% it all looks good to me.
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Ex Machina Posted at 2017-2-15 15:03
In Lightroom I see the noise if I drop the Color NR slider down to zero, but at 50% it all looks good to me.

I think the computer needed a reboot or who knows.  I see a nominal amount of noise for the given lighting now on all the shots as I should...  Whew!  I knew something was awry because the images looked proper when I took them & the preview showed.  And I've taken quite a few stills with this Mavic prior.  Thanks for taking a look!  
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Came across a video on YouTube. I'm surprised to see that the p4p pro seems to suffer some what the same with its video quality like the mavic. Mavic is the worst. And the older p4p seems to have best quality.

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alirz5 Posted at 2017-2-15 19:11
Came across a video on YouTube. I'm surprised to see that the p4p pro seems to suffer some what the same with its video quality like the mavic. Mavic is the worst. And the older p4p seems to have best quality.

https://youtu.be/p7c4oFddn2E

You would expect the Mavic to be third -- it's a smaller sensor that either of it's big brothers, but it was sharper than the P4P, which I think was either not in focus or was inadvertently softened up in post.

Funny, though, my Mavic doesn't give such saturated video on the normal color mode, wonder if the dude underexposed on that flight?
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Gpmic Posted at 2017-2-15 09:30
I was actually under the same impression and thought my Mavic was surely faulty.  However, I have yet to find a video where this "water color" issue doesn't seem present.  Even on Casey Neistat's drone comparison video you can see extreme blurriness in the darker vegetation.  Go look at any Mavic video with dark shadows (that should have some detail) and you'll see the same results.

Casey Neistat wasn't focusing his Mavic so that's not really a fair comparison, check out Mavic pro videos on Vimeo where actual videographers and not YouTube stars are using the Mavic the way they are intended.
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Dji ken once again, you don't answer my question. Why does dji do. Marketing with a Video Mode that is actually not made for recording video? Feels like tricky g the customer.
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Joshua Carlton Posted at 2017-2-15 23:14
Casey Neistat wasn't focusing his Mavic so that's not really a fair comparison, check out Mavic pro videos on Vimeo where actual videographers and not YouTube stars are using the Mavic the way they are intended.https://vimeo.com/195242533

First off, that's the worst video to show off this issue because there is hardly any shadows that contain detail.  Even the trees have highlights on them because of the snow.  

Also, I was able to get my footage to look just as crisp (not nearly as good) by bumping up sharpening to +1 but with that you introduce noise. Lastly, from everything I've seen and read, capturing in 4K seems to best way to avoid this, which is unfortunate since some of us really want >30fps.
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Ex Machina Posted at 2017-2-15 22:10
You would expect the Mavic to be third -- it's a smaller sensor that either of it's big brothers, but it was sharper than the P4P, which I think was either not in focus or was inadvertently softened up in post.

Funny, though, my Mavic doesn't give such saturated video on the normal color mode, wonder if the dude underexposed on that flight?

I would like to agree with you. However electronic sensors have a tendency to shrink as technology improves, however that doesnt necessarily have to mean that they have be inferior to their predecessors.

Sure Mavic maybe a slightly smaller sensor, but the issue doesnt seem to be the sensor. As others have reported that switching to PAL greatly improves the quality. So that seems to be suggest there is some software issue that doesnt encode video properly with NTSC
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chriztian Posted at 2017-2-15 23:14
Dji ken once again, you don't answer my question. Why does dji do. Marketing with a Video Mode that is actually not made for recording video? Feels like tricky g the customer.

The Mavic DOES recording video in 60/90 but if there's structures around that would cause moire then it won't produce the greatest results as the PDF I posted states.
And I won't know to respond to you unless you reply to a post of mine.
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-16 11:04
The Mavic DOES recording video in 60/90 but if there's structures around that would cause moire then it won't produce the greatest results as the PDF I posted states.
And I won't know to respond to you unless you reply to a post of mine.

I dont want to be rough, but lets summarize my problem. I shoot in 1080p 60fps. If you look to my youtube video, it is not just the noise, but when you try to look at the buildings that are a litter further away, the look like painted with oil.

I've tried this a few times with different lighting situations and can say. 1080p with 60fps is useless as it produces video that is simply not usable.

You say one can actually record 1080p with the mavic. Sure, I can also jump from a bridge, but I won't do it. It's a question of expectations. If you are telling your customer they can record in a special mode, it should mean they can record in this mode AND the can use the video later on.

Somehow I feel like you don't get my point. Its just not right that DJI states one can use > 30fps with the mavic. The video it produces when filming with higher frame rates that 30 is not useable at all. And what really is the most angry point for me is that you (DJI) still says: All good, you can record with 1080p.

I hope you understand my point. If I promise you a car but don't tell you that the horn goes each time you drive faster than 30 miles an hour, would you be satisfied?
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chriztian Posted at 2017-2-16 12:08
I dont want to be rough, but lets summarize my problem. I shoot in 1080p 60fps. If you look to my youtube video, it is not just the noise, but when you try to look at the buildings that are a litter further away, the look like painted with oil.

I've tried this a few times with different lighting situations and can say. 1080p with 60fps is useless as it produces video that is simply not usable.

I understand your concern and that's why R&D created that PDF.  If you are within the 14 day exchange period I can help you get it exchanged. If not then the only thing you can do is talk to customer service and put in a complaint with them. I can help with that as well.
I am not looking for professional quality footage from the Mavic and the Mavic is a must for me because of it's portability not it's camera quality so it works just fine with me and tens of thousands or other users.
If you must have the results that the Mavic cannot produce, then it's not going to happen with the Mavic.

Again, I understand where you are coming from and you must have noticed this from the first video you played back so hopefully you are within the 7 day return or 14 day exchange and I can get that going for you. If not, then I can put you in touch with a customer service supervisor and make your statement to them. I'm here to provide technical support and do not have the capabilities of the customer service reps.
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-16 12:17
I understand your concern and that's why R&D created that PDF.  If you are within the 14 day exchange period I can help you get it exchanged. If not then the only thing you can do is talk to customer service and put in a complaint with them. I can help with that as well.
I am not looking for professional quality footage from the Mavic and the Mavic is a must for me because of it's portability not it's camera quality so it works just fine with me and tens of thousands or other users.
If you must have the results that the Mavic cannot produce, then it's not going to happen with the Mavic.

My point is a simply question.

Why do you do marketing that the mavic is supporting > 30 fps and the same time you say that the recorded video may have problems with noise and looks as the youtube video shows.
You actually did not answer this question. I would never do marketing with a mode that produces... this.
It is not a matter of whether I am a professional or not, it's about the promise DJI made.

I am indeed within the 14 days (even though I bought the drone from Amazon) but I don't think that it makes sense to replace it as you said this is a problem of the sensor and so I suspect that all mavic drones have this problem.

DJI is a company worldwide known for it's amazing drones and I would expect that such a company is honest to their customer. If a certain drone is not capable of doing something, this is ok, but at least tell the customer so that they may decide by themselves.

I now have to record the video in 4k with 30 fps and downscale it to 1080 / 60 fps in post later. Not so nice..
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Joshua Carlton Posted at 2017-2-15 23:14
Casey Neistat wasn't focusing his Mavic so that's not really a fair comparison, check out Mavic pro videos on Vimeo where actual videographers and not YouTube stars are using the Mavic the way they are intended.

I love how you link this video, attempting to show the amazing footage that the drone is capable of, when all this video does is show the huge issue with the centre having the dreaded color change.  Some people have it pink/red, others more yellow, like you see here.  It is so obvious on this frame grab used for the title page that I can't help but laugh at the irony.
I have this same issue, and it unfortuantely makes it difficult to work with pictures.  It doesn't just show up in snow, it affects the colors and white balance for all pictures, its just more noticeable in the snow.  I know they say they are working on it, but I figure a new drone will be out first that uses a different lens/sensor before this gets fixed.  Sigh....
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Stewie Griffin Posted at 2017-2-16 13:36
I love how you link this video, attempting to show the amazing footage that the drone is capable of, when all this video does is show the huge issue with the centre having the dreaded color change.  Some people have it pink/red, others more yellow, like you see here.  It is so obvious on this frame grab used for the title page that I can't help but laugh at the irony.
I have this same issue, and it unfortuantely makes it difficult to work with pictures.  It doesn't just show up in snow, it affects the colors and white balance for all pictures, its just more noticeable in the snow.  I know they say they are working on it, but I figure a new drone will be out first that uses a different lens/sensor before this gets fixed.  Sigh....

If you're talking about spots in the center of the image like indoor on a white wall or outdoor in snow, that is also a limitation of the camera.
This PDF explains it.

Mavic Pro Color Shading.pdf

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I think the mavic would have been better off without a camera. Its an excellent flying machine with all the smarts that one would want. However it fails extremely and miserably at video photography
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Gpmic Posted at 2017-2-16 04:37
First off, that's the worst video to show off this issue because there is hardly any shadows that contain detail.  Even the trees have highlights on them because of the snow.  

Also, I was able to get my footage to look just as crisp (not nearly as good) by bumping up sharpening to +1 but with that you introduce noise. Lastly, from everything I've seen and read, capturing in 4K seems to best way to avoid this, which is unfortunate since some of us really want >30fps.

You can get 30 fps in 4k
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-16 15:00
If you're talking about spots in the center of the image like indoor on a white wall or outdoor in snow, that is also a limitation of the camera.
This PDF explains it.

Hi Ken, yes, this is exactly right.  Unfortunately, it does also affect non snow type pictures.  When the centre turns yellow or reddish, you need a different white balance to get those colors right than you do the rest of the frame.  Its just easier to see with snow, but it happens to all pictures, and especially when you work with DNG files.  Its obvious that DJI knows about this, and this is why the JPEG images already try to compensate for this, and I can only hope they reduce it even further since the JPEG files are pretty useless given the amount of noise reduction that is applied.  I think the sensor/lens combo is pulling in great resolution when you have proper focus, but this can only be achieved when working with the DNG file, and since all of the processing to overcome this issue doesn't apply to the DNG file, the issue for photographers is unfortunately there, especially if you want to use the portrait function and stitch a panorama.  Now the repeating centre color issues in a panorama really jump out when you look at a bunch of stitched images.  I would have happily upgraded to the P4P for the better camera, but unfortunately, its camera doesn't allow it to shoot in Portrait mode, so its not all that useful for panoramas.
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alirz5 Posted at 2017-2-16 15:21
I think the mavic would have been better off without a camera. Its an excellent flying machine with all the smarts that one would want. However it fails extremely and miserably at video photography

I watched a lot of Mavic sample flight videos before I put in an order, and the video quality is more than acceptable for my purposes and at a price point I was willing to pay.

Respectfully, you are entitled to your opinion, but to say it "fails extremely and miserably at video photography" is hyperbole at best, not shared by any of the reviewers I've read, nor the many owners who are happily posting their videos here, on SkyPix, Flickr and elsewhere.
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Nice to see how he simply ignores a simple question. Well What should I buy a drone for if not for filming?? Could you PLEASE answer my questions? Why should I exchange my drone if this is a camera limitation and why do you do marketing with features, the drone can not deliver? Not that I want to do this, but I wonder if this would even fit a lawsuit.
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Ex Machina Posted at 2017-2-16 16:19
I watched a lot of Mavic sample flight videos before I put in an order, and the video quality is more than acceptable for my purposes and at a price point I was willing to pay.

Respectfully, you are entitled to your opinion, but to say it "fails extremely and miserably at video photography" is hyperbole at best, not shared by any of the reviewers I've read, nor the many owners who are happily posting their videos here, on SkyPix, Flickr and elsewhere.

I agree 100% with that.
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chriztian Posted at 2017-2-16 23:18
Nice to see how he simply ignores a simple question. Well What should I buy a drone for if not for filming?? Could you PLEASE answer my questions? Why should I exchange my drone if this is a camera limitation and why do you do marketing with features, the drone can not deliver? Not that I want to do this, but I wonder if this would even fit a lawsuit.

What question, the Mavic records 1080 60/90 and for my use it's perfectly fine.
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