It's exactly the kind of "aesthetic treatment" my footage gets with -3 sharpening ;-)

Ex Machina Posted at 2017-3-1 20:20
That looks like an esthetic treatment, none of my lower light video looks remotely like that.

Well mine do actually .

At first I was pretty skeptical of the results in this thread (mainly because it was being borderline spammed)... but after some hour of testing I can conclusively say there is a noticeable difference in quality going from NTSC to PAL, which effectively "resets" the camera. Zooming in 100% there is noticeably less denoising/water color effect and small details appear much better. If you're not a pixel peeper, or photographer you will probably not notice this.
However, the water color issue is still somewhat there. I don't think we'll every fully get rid of it, simply due to the limitations of the camera's max bitrate which is 60Mbps. For those non geeks... 60mbps is very low for 4k. In fact if you go any lower it's unusable, so we're at the low end of 4k quality. Essentially the camera needs to compress each frame dramatically so it can fit the max bitrate, and the "watercoloring" is a side effect of this issue.
If DJI is reading this thread (which I hope) there are still possibilities to improve the camera given the current hardware limitations. If we lower the video framerate, you should allow less compression to dramatically improve image quality. 2.7K also should have MUCH better quality than it currently does, given it's lower bandwidth from 4k. Hopefully this is being looked into.

alirz5 Posted at 2017-3-2 03:24
Well mine do actually .

If my raw video looked like that example at default settings, I'd send my Mavic in for service.

Ex Machina Posted at 2017-3-2 11:17
If my raw video looked like that example at default settings, I'd send my Mavic in for service.

There is no raw video in the mavic.

@Mir The bitrate is not the problem here. It's the internal Noise Reduction. I've filmed very complex scenes where there are almost no solid areas where the codec/compression can work with. Those are good because you don't give the noise reduction a chance to kick in.
But i would really like if they could up the 2.7k mode from 40 to 60Mb/s anyway.

CaptainFantasti Posted at 2017-3-2 12:39
There is no raw video in the mavic.

@Mir The bitrate is not the problem here. It's the internal Noise Reduction. I've filmed very complex scenes where there are almost no solid areas where the codec/compression can work with. Those are good because you don't give the noise reduction a chance to kick in.

Lower-case raw, meaning not graded, filtered, or otherwise processed in post.

Mir Posted at 2017-3-2 10:40
At first I was pretty skeptical of the results in this thread (mainly because it was being borderline spammed)... but after some hour of testing I can conclusively say there is a noticeable difference in quality going from NTSC to PAL, which effectively "resets" the camera. Zooming in 100% there is noticeably less denoising/water color effect and small details appear much better. If you're not a pixel peeper, or photographer you will probably not notice this.
However, the water color issue is still somewhat there. I don't think we'll every fully get rid of it, simply due to the limitations of the camera's max bitrate which is 60Mbps. For those non geeks... 60mbps is very low for 4k. In fact if you go any lower it's unusable, so we're at the low end of 4k quality. Essentially the camera needs to compress each frame dramatically so it can fit the max bitrate, and the "watercoloring" is a side effect of this issue.
If DJI is reading this thread (which I hope) there are still possibilities to improve the camera given the current hardware limitations. If we lower the video framerate, you should allow less compression to dramatically improve image quality. 2.7K also should have MUCH better quality than it currently does, given it's lower bandwidth from 4k. Hopefully this is being looked into.

I can conclusively say there is a noticeable difference in quality going from NTSC to PAL, which effectively "resets" the camera. Zooming in 100% there is noticeably less denoising/water color effect and small details appear much better. If you're not a pixel peeper, or photographer you will probably not notice this.

Are you sure you are not noticing differences in frame rate? IOW, did you compare 25fps/4K/PAL to 30fps/4K/NTSC?

I know in broadcast TV PAL is a bit higher resolution than NTSC, but I'm not sure this is applicable in a digital context.

Mir Posted at 2017-3-2 10:40
At first I was pretty skeptical of the results in this thread (mainly because it was being borderline spammed)... but after some hour of testing I can conclusively say there is a noticeable difference in quality going from NTSC to PAL, which effectively "resets" the camera. Zooming in 100% there is noticeably less denoising/water color effect and small details appear much better. If you're not a pixel peeper, or photographer you will probably not notice this.
However, the water color issue is still somewhat there. I don't think we'll every fully get rid of it, simply due to the limitations of the camera's max bitrate which is 60Mbps. For those non geeks... 60mbps is very low for 4k. In fact if you go any lower it's unusable, so we're at the low end of 4k quality. Essentially the camera needs to compress each frame dramatically so it can fit the max bitrate, and the "watercoloring" is a side effect of this issue.
If DJI is reading this thread (which I hope) there are still possibilities to improve the camera given the current hardware limitations. If we lower the video framerate, you should allow less compression to dramatically improve image quality. 2.7K also should have MUCH better quality than it currently does, given it's lower bandwidth from 4k. Hopefully this is being looked into.

I do 100% agree that 60mbs is too low for 4K but this isn't causing the issue with water colour/ noise reduction at all.

............

I just received my Mavic on Wednesday and this is the first day to really test it out. The video is really amazing and sharp, however the pictures are atrocious. Its strange since you would think it would be identical. Here is a screenshot of a video which ended and then I took a picture. This is 1080p/30fps. It's not even the higher settings and you can see definition in the trees and roof line. The colors are also better. The picture looks like the 320x240 camera Ken mentioned a couple of pages back. The trees are mud and looks like it was taken with a potato

[img]https://forum22.djicdn.com/data/attachment/forum/%5Burl=http://imgur.com/oSB06Mt%5D[/url

]

Mavic Driver Posted at 2017-3-4 13:24
I just received my Mavic on Wednesday and this is the first day to really test it out. The video is really amazing and sharp, however the pictures are atrocious. Its strange since you would think it would be identical. Here is a screenshot of a video which ended and then I took a picture. This is 1080p/30fps. It's not even the higher settings and you can see definition in the trees and roof line. The colors are also better. The picture looks like the 320x240 camera Ken mentioned a couple of pages back. The trees are mud and looks like it was taken with a potato

[view_image][/url

You are comparing processed video to unprocessed RAW image data. If you change settings to RAW+JPG you'll see that the JPG version has been processed to look more like what you see in video.

RAW files are for photogs that want to use their own processing tools and preferences for color, contrast, sharpening, noise reduction, etc., and depending on the RAW image viewer/editor, there may be no sharpening dialed in at all by default.

Thank you for your response Ex Machina. I actually started in Jpeg since that was the default setting. Below is an example of what sent me into the settings trying to find a resolution:

Video Capture:
[img]https://forum22.djicdn.com/data/attachment/forum/%5Bimg%5D[/img]

Photo:
http://imgur.com/vnDFhZOhttp://i.imgur.com/vnDFhZO.jpg

I realize there is work to be done after the photo is taken, but there seems to be a stark contrast from video sharpness and photo sharpness. And are you saying with enough post processing that the photo can achieve the same sharpness as the video capture?

Actually, after studying the last two examples which were Jpegs, they appear to be closer than I thought. I will try again tomorrow and may adjust the style settings to what folks are suggesting.

Mavic Driver Posted at 2017-3-4 20:08
Thank you for your response Ex Machina. I actually started in Jpeg since that was the default setting. Below is an example of what sent me into the settings trying to find a resolution:

Video Capture:

Yeah, in general you can expect a still to be of higher quality than a video frame-grab. In practice, sometimes frame-grabs or default jpgs are good enough.

SO DJI where is this fix ???   why you dragging your PROPS with this FIX???   

You need to shoot DNG. The JPGs are unusable, overly compressed, missing all detail. Even deforming some parts.

yes jpgs are awful dng it is the way... 50 times better...rely could make them look like was done by almost an dslr....dji real time processing software in mavic and phantom4 for video and photo at this moment are rely bad...they need serious work from programmers because it is a let down and a pity for the most famous company and with biggest sales...

100pct crops

Mavic from a friend:


My magic under same circumstances


Only difference here I was shooting in D-log, he was shooting in ART

100pct crops

Mavic from a friend:
http://i.imgur.com/HPD6ejE.png

My magic under same circumstances
http://i.imgur.com/rTnHnRC.png

Only difference here I was shooting in D-log, he was shooting in ART

fans117f42ed Posted at 2017-3-12 10:51
100pct crops

Mavic from a friend:

Are you serious. That is a big difference between the two!!!

fans117f42ed Posted at 2017-3-12 10:51
100pct crops

Mavic from a friend:

What does yours look like with the default video setting? Did you have sharpening turned down?

Mavic Driver Posted at 2017-3-4 20:08
Thank you for your response Ex Machina. I actually started in Jpeg since that was the default setting. Below is an example of what sent me into the settings trying to find a resolution:

Video Capture:

That is what i have noticed also, a frame grab from a videoclip shot in 4k is much better in quality than a photo taken from the same spot.

After the last update, this happened gradually on my first flight, i had ND16 filter on at the time, the camera could not focus at all and the watercolor effect came to this awful state.
I landed and first thought the filter was clogged due to temperature differences but it looked fine, turned off the drone and removed the filter, and things were back to normal, i later put on another ND filter and that didn`t alter the image quality at all. so i guess the restart of the camera did the trick. Here is the photo i took.
Here is link to same picture in raw: https://www.dropbox.com/s/00b3fzcyj2izr9t/DJI_0250.DNG?dl=0

i also get that pasterized-water painted image in videos at 50 & 60fps....2 short clips straight from the sd card if you wanna check> https://we.tl/mrKdZi5klH
videos at those fps are totally unusable...

Nothing to do with framerates... (high framerates are for the first person view googles anyway)

CaptainFantasti Posted at 2017-3-30 07:44
Nothing to do with framerates... (high framerates are for the first person view googles anyway)

i thought high framerate is for applying slow motion or shoot fast paced objects etc...at 24-25fps 2.7 and 4K image is ok

noipego Posted at 2017-3-30 07:57
i thought high framerate is for applying slow motion too...at 24-25fps 2.7 and 4K image is ok

Lots of threads already on the forum. The 48+ fps is there for the goggles. It aliases over 30.

Its as simple as this :  DJI has a real bad NR applied to the video PERIOD !   The sensor is small and gives bad noise .  This is probably why DJI hasn’t give any statements or workaround or FIX as if they did we all would be bitching about the high noise in all our video.   I do find it frustrating and sad how DJI and all the rest of the DJI powers of ego can’t simply address this issue with all the complaints and time spent on testing via US the people who put $$ in DJI’s bank account!     DJI could care less about this as if they did they would have fixed this issue or at least come up with a happy middle ground with the noise and NR used. The frame rate has NOT A DARN TOOTING THING to do with this water color issue. NOR does your ND filters it only one thing  NOISE REDUCTION FILTER !!!  that is the culprit here with the water color issue. I found this to be 100000000% fact as I had my blue ray player by accident NR setting pushed to +15 by and was amazed how similar the trees were looking in movies (watercolor) I then noticed that my setting again was wrong after I fixed it and set  the NR to 0 it was perfect    this is the same  that we have going on here…………… NR    drop mike !

MadImage BOI Posted at 2017-3-30 08:37
Its as simple as this :  DJI has a real bad NR applied to the video PERIOD !   The sensor is small and gives bad noise .  This is probably why DJI hasn’t give any statements or workaround or FIX as if they did we all would be bitching about the high noise in all our video.   I do find it frustrating and sad how DJI and all the rest of the DJI powers of ego can’t simply address this issue with all the complaints and time spent on testing via US the people who put $$ in DJI’s bank account!     DJI could care less about this as if they did they would have fixed this issue or at least come up with a happy middle ground with the noise and NR used. The frame rate has NOT A DARN TOOTING THING to do with this water color issue. NOR does your ND filters it only one thing  NOISE REDUCTION FILTER !!!  that is the culprit here with the water color issue. I found this to be 100000000% fact as I had my blue ray player by accident NR setting pushed to +15 by and was amazed how similar the trees were looking in movies (watercolor) I then noticed that my setting again was wrong after I fixed it and set  the NR to 0 it was perfect    this is the same  that we have going on here…………… NR    drop mike !

I shot this over the weekend. http://bit.ly/2oddZqr
Over the winter http://bit.ly/2nPBUZV

Your argument is based on skill. Shoot 4k 30. Youtube re compresses 4k footage to 56mbps anyway. It's actually an amazing video gimbal once you take the time to learn how to use it.

thehippoz Posted at 2017-3-30 08:46
I shot this over the weekend. http://bit.ly/2oddZqr
Over the winter http://bit.ly/2nPBUZV

What was your sharpness setting at? The Trees look like they should. I only can get such results with sharpness +1 and NR in post. With 0 and below its mush. Nothing to do with learning to use though...

CaptainFantasti Posted at 2017-4-3 08:23
What was your sharpness setting at? The Trees look like they should. I only can get such results with sharpness +1 and NR in post. With 0 and below its mush. Nothing to do with learning to use though...

It's 0 sharpness. I used around 0.4 sharpness in premiere grading. I think it does have to do with skill. Because if you're deliberately shooting for the watercolor effect and not focusing shots, then posting look what I got.

I do run with older firmware though. 1.2.9

thehippoz Posted at 2017-4-3 12:46
It's 0 sharpness. I used around 0.4 sharpness in premiere grading. I think it does have to do with skill. Because if you're deliberately shooting for the watercolor effect and not focusing shots, then posting look what I got.

I do run with older firmware though. 1.2.9

What i meant was that it's a legit bug. You can work around it but it's not ideal.

Looks like Dji is never for no to fix this issue...DJI KEN only once acknowledged, like three months ago, that DJ engineering  was informed of this issue and that was it...
We didn't hear anything further on that. While all this time we are stuck with this problem.

CaptainFantasti Posted at 2017-4-4 03:06
What i meant was that it's a legit bug. You can work around it but it's not ideal.

Yeah, I get you. It does have bugs to work out. But guys posting there's nothing they can do to get good footage, that's not true.

so anyone who sent it for replacement/repair got this issue fixed?

...i doubt it....

Since I had the same issues with a massive noise reduction kicking in from time to time I have a new theory to throw in: Could it be the camera getting hot and the sensor introducing noise because of this? That would explain why the massive noise reduction kicks in randomly. And that would be a good explanation why DJI hasn't come up with a solution yet... What do you think?

Anyone that upgraded to .550 firmware notice any improvement with this issue by any chance?

So,

I'm getting a lot more detail at +1 sharpening but think the noise outweighs the detail. How the heck do I get rid of this much grain??? Is Neat Video really capable of this?

Any help would be great
http://imgur.com/a/2NgAw

fans74a83cfc Posted at 2017-4-23 15:19
So,

I'm getting a lot more detail at +1 sharpening but think the noise outweighs the detail. How the heck do I get rid of this much grain??? Is Neat Video really capable of this?

I bought the neat video license, it definitely does help a lot (even on a milky way timelapse I took with my entry level dslr at iso6400)... My one beef with neat video is your workflow in Premiere needs to be in full resolution, you cant be using proxies so its really hard to implement into a longer video with lots of cuts.