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M600 Ronin MX Vibration
2774 23 2017-2-10
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P.R
lvl.4
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I'm wondering who is experiencing vibrations in their footage when using the Standard M600 with the Ronin MX.

2017-2-10
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ricci2
Captain
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hi, has it been there from the start or just started?
2017-2-10
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P.R
lvl.4
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I notice it occasionally, but I heard that a few have this issue regularly, so I was wondering how many have thisregularly.
I'm working on a improved damping system.
2017-2-10
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DJI-Jamie
DJI team
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P.R Posted at 2017-2-10 08:04
I notice it occasionally, but I heard that a few have this issue regularly, so I was wondering how many have thisregularly.
I'm working on a improved damping system.

Just to be clear, you're not seeing vibration when you're just using the Ronin as a handheld, correct?  Could you happed to remind me which camera you use? Does the camera have its own image stabilization that could be causing issues?
2017-2-10
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P.R
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DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-2-10 16:12
Just to be clear, you're not seeing vibration when you're just using the Ronin as a handheld, correct?  Could you happed to remind me which camera you use? Does the camera have its own image stabilization that could be causing issues?

We came to the conclusion that the damping system DJI provides, does not work properly for many  setups and it's not very flexible, we will make a review comparing the standard system dji provides and see if our new mount can improve the problems, but looks good so far.
All our settings are correct, and IS is always turned off for gimbal use.



2017-2-11
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3x3q
lvl.2
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I'd be very interested in seeing your new damping plate. When you have it working, please let me know.

Also, as for the vibration, if you're talking about the "jello" microvibrations in the video... that happened to us the last few times while flying the M600/Ronin/A7sii. Increasing the outfilter settings seem to help reduce that. We filmed today after making those settings, and have yet to review footage, but it looked much better than before.
2017-2-12
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3x3q
lvl.2
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We are still experiencing considerable jello in our shots. A7Sii is perfectly balanced on Ronin, everything is tightened down properly, outfilter on all three axes increased to 40 or so. The jello isn't terrible, but definitely noticable.

Any update on the improved mounting plate you're working on?

Does anyone have much experience fixing high frequency vibrations like this?
2017-2-26
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P.R
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3x3q Posted at 2017-2-26 17:16
We are still experiencing considerable jello in our shots. A7Sii is perfectly balanced on Ronin, everything is tightened down properly, outfilter on all three axes increased to 40 or so. The jello isn't terrible, but definitely noticable.

Any update on the improved mounting plate you're working on?

Waiting on one last part to arrive, that I need to mount it firmly to the M600.
So far it looks like it is able to isolate small vibrations from the m600 very good, much better then the stock damping system, but I need to do some test flights to confirm, hopefully this week, if DHL delivers the missing part these day.

The stock damping system is actually only made out of 1 spring and a rubber ring, thats it.
2017-2-27
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3x3q
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Is this a mounting plate that you are building yourself? Or is it a third-party manufacturer? If the latter, would you mind linking to the product?

Thanks for the update!
2017-2-27
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Sestaceans
Second Officer
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The M600 has quietly disappeared from the DJI store.   The Pro is still available.   This is an unprecedented move by DJI for a drone that hasn't been on the market for a year.
This drone has been a mess from the start (vibration/Jello the biggest problem).  I tried to return my drone and to my surprise (not really) they tried to get me to return the drone to China.  This would cost us $1000.  Currently weighing my options.
2017-2-27
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P.R
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3x3q Posted at 2017-2-27 11:38
Is this a mounting plate that you are building yourself? Or is it a third-party manufacturer? If the latter, would you mind linking to the product?

Thanks for the update!

The Damping system itself is 3rd party, the mounting plate (Mounting the damping system to the M600) is my own build, made out of CF and titanium, takes about 2 days to build that mount.

Check out Damperzen, I use the Type A.
2017-2-28
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Sestaceans
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P.R Posted at 2017-2-28 03:30
The Damping system itself is 3rd party, the mounting plate (Mounting the damping system to the M600) is my own build, made out of CF and titanium, takes about 2 days to build that mount.

Check out Damperzen, I use the Type A.

Do you have a link?  I'd love to check it out.
Do you think getting the Gh4 gimbal just for the Gh4 and Matrice600 would work?
It's a shame that the RoninMx will not work as advertised, so I need other option, especially if DJI is making returns go back to Hong Kong.
2017-2-28
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3x3q
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Thanks for the info. That damping system definitely looks more solid than the one DJI provides for the Ronin MX.

I anxiously await your testing of this setup. I will likely go this route also for Ronin MX mounting.
2017-2-28
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ricci2
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Hi all,
I don't run an MX but I have some info that might help. The industry I work in used carbon fibre until we discovered it has a resonate frequency that is linear with wall thickness so to dial out the frequencies we added kevlar and other exotic fibres. We found the carbon could be damped with fluids that clung to the inner bore but under high frequency vibration became detached so we went cave man on it and filled the tube with all sorts of silicon polymer based binders until we tried expanding foam. This had just enough density to change the dynamics of the tube but later we inserted an aluminium 2mm bar in the foam to help decouple, we then came up with a dynamic fluid that was even better.
I don't know if you are willing to try an experiment with the attachment tubes for the ronin MX where it mounts to the M600, the 10mm ones. Ideally fill the tubes with two part  Silone rubber or if you want to be less destructive use Cornstarch, yep it's  also known as a non-Newtonian fluid, i.e. it stiffens with impact/ compression. Mix 100g of cornstarch with water and poor it in the tubes and put the end cap on, you will be amazed how much difference it can make by changing the density of the tube. We used something very similar to great success.

Ricci
2017-3-1
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3x3q
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So I understand correctly, you recommend filling some of these carbon fiber tubes with non-newtonian fluid "oobleck"? Below is the poorly designed Ronin-MX mounting bracket.
2017-3-1
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ricci2
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3x3q Posted at 2017-3-1 21:27
So I understand correctly, you recommend filling some of these carbon fiber tubes with non-newtonian fluid "oobleck"? Below is the poorly designed Ronin-MX mounting bracket.
[view_image]

Hello 3x3q,
Yes, that's the idea, it might sound crazy but if you look, they are the link to transmit vibration. They act like a speaker cone. You could do a field fix, just wrap "Gaffa tape" around the bits of the tube you can get to but I would recommend you do a before and after flight because the tape might only yield small results. You might have some solid ally or solid fibreglass tube. The approach we took was to try and isolate the frequencies being transmitted down the suspension tubes so we could separate the actual source of the vibration and apply localised filtration, i.e., silicon damping tuned to the correct frequencies. With tubes acting as amplifiers and lack of rigidity the mounting setup for the ronin lacks refinement in some respects but good in others, the main cause is the vast amount of variable vibration sources combined over a wide spectrum. Our department consisted of five scientist and tons of test gear just to find the issue. Looking at the cradle for the ronin shows they wanted to keep the gimbal secure, light weight , however having four mounts means four possible transmission routes, a single attachment would be better. In Dji"s defence the complex diverse  craft they design are at the beginning of the design stage and if you want 98% success pay the price the aeronautical industry and NASSA  will do for proven tested gear!  I am sure DJI never envisaged where the clever and industrious folk of the drone world would take it, so they might be forgiven for being on the back foot. Just had a thought about the whole ronin system, its all made from hollow tube, you might like to consider filling that if its assessable.
Heavy on ideas, light on answers as yet.

Ricci
2017-3-2
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Fotopiloot
lvl.3
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ricci2 Posted at 2017-3-1 19:08
Hi all,
I don't run an MX but I have some info that might help. The industry I work in used carbon fibre until we discovered it has a resonate frequency that is linear with wall thickness so to dial out the frequencies we added kevlar and other exotic fibres. We found the carbon could be damped with fluids that clung to the inner bore but under high frequency vibration became detached so we went cave man on it and filled the tube with all sorts of silicon polymer based binders until we tried expanding foam. This had just enough density to change the dynamics of the tube but later we inserted an aluminium 2mm bar in the foam to help decouple, we then came up with a dynamic fluid that was even better.
I don't know if you are willing to try an experiment with the attachment tubes for the ronin MX where it mounts to the M600, the 10mm ones. Ideally fill the tubes with two part  Silone rubber or if you want to be less destructive use Cornstarch, yep it's  also known as a non-Newtonian fluid, i.e. it stiffens with impact/ compression. Mix 100g of cornstarch with water and poor it in the tubes and put the end cap on, you will be amazed how much difference it can make by changing the density of the tube. We used something very similar to great success.

I probably will try this method because somehow indeed the carbon frame of the DJI M600 is still giving us vibrations. Filling the two carbon tubes with Cornstarch is not very parctical i believe? You can only use it for a short while (just for testing maybe). Filling it with sicone rubber is more effective on the long run i suppose. What do you mean by two part silicone Runbber. i suppose you have to poor some sort of liquid silicone in to the tubes and wait till it will be stiff. The silicons are to buy in 15 (soft) and 40 (hard) but what will be best to use?
2017-4-24
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ricci2
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Fotopiloot Posted at 2017-4-24 07:41
I probably will try this method because somehow indeed the carbon frame of the DJI M600 is still giving us vibrations. Filling the two carbon tubes with Cornstarch is not very parctical i believe? You can only use it for a short while (just for testing maybe). Filling it with sicone rubber is more effective on the long run i suppose. What do you mean by two part silicone Runbber. i suppose you have to poor some sort of liquid silicone in to the tubes and wait till it will be stiff. The silicons are to buy in 15 (soft) and 40 (hard) but what will be best to use?

Hi,
here is a link we use ( http://www.mbfg.co.uk/rtv-silicone/gp-3481-f.html )  but I am sure you can get this in your country.  I would do a trial first before you fill the tubes as its extra mass and a bitch to clean unless you line it with clingfilm first. There is something called silly putty, its like a kids playdo, its flexible enough to force it into the tube and will be dense enough damp the vibrations. https://www.familyeducation.com/node/16369
let me know if you need more input.

ricci
2017-4-24
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Fotopiloot
lvl.3
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ricci2 Posted at 2017-4-24 09:28
Hi,
here is a link we use ( http://www.mbfg.co.uk/rtv-silicone/gp-3481-f.html )  but I am sure you can get this in your country.  I would do a trial first before you fill the tubes as its extra mass and a bitch to clean unless you line it with clingfilm first. There is something called silly putty, its like a kids playdo, its flexible enough to force it into the tube and will be dense enough damp the vibrations. https://www.familyeducation.com/node/16369
let me know if you need more input.

Thanks. i will post here with findings on that trial.
2017-4-26
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ricci2
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Fotopiloot Posted at 2017-4-26 06:22
Thanks. i will post here with findings on that trial.

Fantastic, it folk like yourself that make a difference here despite DJI.
2017-4-26
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Kover
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Belgium
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Fotopiloot Posted at 2017-4-26 06:22
Thanks. i will post here with findings on that trial.

Hi,

Having the same issues (M600 pro + Ronin mx + GH4). Any improvement on your side so far?
I found out that turning off the image stabilsation in the lens makes things worse.
And changing the outfilter doesn't help a thing. I flew 14 waypoint-flights to be able to compare and raised the outfilter in between every flight, so going from 0 to 28. It just got worse.
I seriously doubt another damper will help. The vibrations seem to occur when I pan/tilt, so it looks like it is a gimbal motor-issue. I have the stiffness set to the maximum, props are balanced.

Thanks
2017-6-11
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Randolphin
lvl.2
Australia
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I've always had bad vibrations with the m600 and ronin mx, I've tried absolutely every setting and nothing works. The results are still bad but improve when using image stabilisation which proves the vibrations are substantial. I also can't get sharp stills unless I use extremely fast shutter speeds. I can't believe we have to talk about filling tubes with silicon etc to get rid of vibrations on a machine like this. Is there any of this sort of discussion or talk of vibrations on the inspire, mavic or phantom pages? No because they work and the M600 obviously has a major fault. I'm not doing video jobs with the m600 because it's not good enough. I use it for stills and then I have to use the same fast shutter speeds as if I was shooting from a helicopter.
2017-6-13
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paul
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United Kingdom
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hi yes this is a well known issue yet dji are in denial
2017-12-16
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paul
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2017-12-16
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